apinknightmare
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Posts posted by apinknightmare
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Miss Mert's take on the Season 3 poster.
This is too cute, and I just now realized that ARROW is spelled out in the building lights. Well done!
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Hi, Betweenthisandthat. I don't think I've seen you post here before, so welcome!
You are absolutely right that Laurel as she is now couldn't have gotten away with being a part of something like The Undertaking. The thing of it is, the writers on this show gave Moira, who was morally grey and not a nice person, good motivation that drove her, so even though I don't condone her behavior, I understand why she did what she did. I didn't necessarily root for her, but I was actually invested in her story. Moira was shady as hell, but she loved her family and would do (and did) anything for them. I understood her.
The problem with Laurel is that at any given time I don't know what in the hell is going on with her. Yeah, she fights for justice, but she's not particularly good at it. And that would be fine if that were part of her character, but that's never really acknowledged in the show (and I don't expect that it will be next season
considering she's supposed to be the DA
. So, we see either see her failing, or we see her succeeding with Arrow's help, and she reaps benefits from that.
So then we have Oliver and Sara. Past Oliver and Sara? Absolute dicks. What they did is 100% on them - if Laurel was being too pushy for commitment, then it's on Oliver to tell her that, not take her sister on a boat and/or cheat repeatedly. I don't blame Laurel for any of that and she is absolutely right to be both devastated and angry about what they did to her. I thought she was head-over-heels in love with Oliver, and just kind of naive because of it. But come to find out, she knew he was cheating on her and still wanted to be with him. Still pushed for them moving in together. So...why? The flashback of her and Sara talking about it made it seem like she was in that relationship for the status, which is fine. That actually could've been an interesting facet to her character, but the writers never did anything with it. So...it's not really so much that she loved him in the past, it's that she loved what being with him could do for her (which, again, I think could've made her more interesting, if the writers had explored that). It's great that she's forgiving him in the present, but why is she doing that? Why does she want anything to do with Oliver at all? Is it just for the sake of forgiving him so that she can be a good person?
Her anger at Sara, I get. Laurel should feel more betrayed by Sara, and yet she didn't spend even remotely as long being angry at her as she did at Oliver. Not only did SHE apologize to SARA, but she did it on the same night as her outburst! And then the next episode she's giving Sara and Oliver relationship advice? Wha-what?
Laurel and Oliver, as far as we know, are barely talking to each other. But when she finds out that Oliver is the Arrow, she goes right to him and tells him he's important to her, and gives him a hug. Doesn't say jack to her sister, though. They leave that off-screen for whatever reason. So, now they've made it seem like Laurel's only interested in Oliver because he's the Arrow, which makes her seem superficial, which is not at all what I think was intended by that. She doesn't know what Oliver went through on the island, doesn't know why he took up the hood, doesn't really even know anything about him since he came back to the island (arguably didn't really know him all that well before the island), but she knows him down to her bones? Knows him like she knows her own name? Okay. Then at the end of the season, she's smiling like a lunatic when her sister hands her a jacket and then runs off to be an assassin again.
She has moments of being a do-gooder, then she's blackmailing people. She can kick ass when it's needed as a plot device, but she's kidnapped more than anyone. Which is it? Now she's going to try to follow in Sara's footsteps? Why? Just because she's "Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world," I guess. That's the problem (for me) with Laurel. What they're telling me and what they're showing me are two different things, and they change based on whatever the writers are trying to sell me at the time because whatever previous thing didn't work. I don't care if she's selfish - let her BE selfish. I don't care if she's angry - let her BE angry. If she wants to be an ass-kicker like Sara, SHOW ME WHY. I don't need her to go through her own island - she's suffered in her own way. What I need to know is why she's compelled to do it, and they so far have not shown me that, and I don't have faith that they will. Laurel's character needs some nuance and consistency. Maybe they can give her that in S3, but I'm past the point of caring now.
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I guess hearing people talk about Sara as a hero at the end of the season is making her want to be a hero too? LMAO, please let it be more than that, because that's...yeah, please no.
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General question for the group here:
One of the extras on the season two Blu-Rays is a half hour thing called "From Vigilante to Hero." In it, the EPs suggest that Oliver has an actual addiction to killing, similar to alcohol - which he has to fight. He slips once (the Count) but triumphs in the end (Slade).
So, is it me, or was this completely not on screen in the second season? I thought Oliver returned absolutely determined not to kill, to the point where I never got the sense that he even wanted to kill anyone - not even the Count. Oliver seemed willing enough to lower his bow there until the Count raised the syringes towards Felicity's neck.
Did I miss something? Was Felicity's "No, Oliver, not for me?" meant as a recognition that she knew he might want/need to kill again? Or am I forgetting another scene where Oliver seemed willing to kill but didn't? (I haven't started my second season rewatch yet.) I get the sense that this might be coming up again next season, so I wanted to know what to look for.
Yeah, I never got the impression that he was addicted to killing or even wanted to so much as he was just desensitized to it based on what he had to do while he was away (on the island/in Hong Kong/wherever). I thought it was his first instinct, not necessarily a need.
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We try with all the female characters to give them a strength but not make that strength limited to kicking ass, though we have plenty of that, obviously. I think people will be very happy with Laurel's trajectory specifically this year in that regard. She's going to start trying to walk the path that her sister walked, which is something we set up in the Season Finale and I think people are going to be really excited to see where that goes.
You set her up for that insofar as you gave her Sara's jacket, but what freaking reason does she have to try to be Sara apart from, you know, wanting to be Sara? Are we transitioning into some SWF-level stuff here, or what?
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So I think it would be great if Ray Palmer heard that she was great at IT and went head-hunting her, not because she was Oliver's EA but because of how good she is and hired her to work at her proper capacity. And since this show is all about Oliver, it wouldn't hurt for him to realize he has been taking Felicity for granted and that she sacrificed to be on his Team last year.
Per a writeup after an interview with one of the EPs, isn't that what he does? Learns about her skills and gets curious about her career path and tries to hire her (not sure if I'm remembering correctly)? And I agree with your last point completely. That's why I think it would be great if he was just supportive of her move to work for Ray. Because it's something she's interested in, and she's already sacrificed enough for him.
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Isn't Oliver one of the main reasons Felicity lost her job at QC in the first place? I personally don't really see it as a betrayal for her to start working there again.
I don't think it's a betrayal at all, but I can definitely see how it would be a sore subject. Not if Felicity went back to work at QC generally speaking, but specifically because Ray comes in and is kind of an asshat, gains control of the company Felicity is working with Oliver to get back, and then Felicity goes to work for Ray when he shows an interest in her professionally. It's a delicate situation, and I can see it causing issues between her and Oliver (not saying it will, but it could).
I just think the best way of handling it would be for Felicity to say she's taking the job, and for Oliver (for whatever reasons) to be supportive of it. I don't think there should have to be some contrived reason like Felicity not being able to find a job where she's paid enough to make ends meet for that to happen. Because even in that instance, I can still see her making her case to Oliver for taking the job, and I just don't want to see that happen. Maybe it won't, since the EPs said that Oliver's feelings for Felicity and some of the decisions they cause him to make are part of his journey this season. Maybe he'll have his big boy pants on and won't make a fuss over it. Fingers crossed.
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Doing that once again makes Felicity all about Oliver, IMO.
As stupid as it maybe and as much as I hate the implication (especially after these idiots thought it would be fun to make Felicity an EA), I'd rather Felicity takes the job offer on her own volition as part of her character journey. Additionally, I think they're probably doing it to set up Ray as a real choice. Oliver derails Felicity's career by making her his EA because it served his purposes. Ray comes along and recognizes Felicity's abilities and gives her a chance to succeed based on her abilities.
She could still take the job offer on her own volition, even with Oliver being supportive of the decision. I mean, she's taking a job working for someone who is directly in competition with him - he's going to factor into the decision regardless, don't you think? Felicity's a good person and is his friend and partner (regardless of whatever feelings they have for each other), I mean...even in my own life if I were taking a job with someone who was actively working against a friend's interests, I'd ask their opinion just for the sake of our friendship. Doesn't mean I'd do what they wanted me to, but it'd still be a factor.
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In real life that's totally the case but this is scripted drama so Felicity needing to make ends meat is being written for a purpose. There's two reasons I can think of, making Felicity in need of money and working at Best Buy gives her a reason to accept Ray's theoretical job offer and/or it makes it OK for her to accept the offer.
Oh, I know it's being written for a purpose, but I still think it's stupid.
ETA: Felicity doesn't need to be having money troubles for an excuse to take the job working at QC. If Oliver's still trying to get the company back, all he needs to do is suggest that Felicity take the job to keep an eye on things from the inside. The "betrayal" issue is dealt with handily, and I don't have to suspend a single bit of belief. I'll wait to see how things play out, but...yeah.
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I think that's exactly what it is. Ray seeks her out (because of her weird career trajectory, from IT grunt to CEO's assistant to Geek Squad) and she's probably going to hem and haw but does need the money (so did she use up the $1M Oliver gave her for the lair, or is she saving that for a rainy day?). I imagine there will also be some sort of discussion among Team Arrow, or maybe just Oliver and Felicity and Oliver will be like, "Well, at least you can keep track of what's happening at my former company." I wonder how the Kord Industries employment ties into this, though. Unless, that was just a one-shot deal.
The synopsis read that she took a part time job to make ends meet, and that's generally what people do when their full-time job isn't paying the bills, so I'd guess that she's still employed at Kord (or somewhere).
It's going to kill me if an incompetent, inexperienced lawyer like Laurel winds up being DA and a genius MIT graduate like Felicity has difficulty finding a job that pays her bills. Maybe Oliver should just let Starling City burn - it's a terrible place, haha.
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I think that Roy will be upset with the entire team, but Felicity will bear the brunt of his anger because she's the one who outright lied to him about what he did under the Mirakuru. It's actually kind of perfect for Laurel because in this sense Felicity will be made into the villain and Laurel will be made into the saint because she's the one who was being honest. While it's a cheap shot, I know some people (mostly casual viewers) will fall for it.
I don't know, I think it would depend on how Laurel told him. It's not like they're keeping a secret like...I don't know, like Felicity finding out who Thea's father is and not telling Oliver. Roy killed a guy when he was out of his mind - what good is there in him knowing that he did it? Felicity (and the team) didn't keep it from him to be hurtful, they kept it from him to be kind.
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Not that I disagree with Felicity being at fault, but she's not the only one responsible for keeping that secret from him. If Roy doesn't know, that one's on Oliver, Digg and Sara, too. Not just Felicity. (basically what Angel12d wrote)
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On a semi-related note, Marc Guggenheim said on twitter that we'd find out who the new mayor is in 3x05.
I bet it's someone with a squeaky clean past and absolutely no hidden agenda and/or shady dealings whatsoever!
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Like I get you have to suspend belief on these shows, but WTF! Why don't you just make her the Mayor too?
My headcanon is that the Starling City electorate is full of morons and/or all the capable lawyers were killed by mirakududes as part of Slade's ultimate long-game revenge plan to slowly dismantle SC's legal system through gross incompetence.
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Was Laurel actually confirmed as the DA in S3? I thought it was just speculation.
A few articles that came out during CC mentioned that she was positioned as DA when talking about Arrow and Laurel's "business partnership." I've also seen MG quoted saying that "she's still in the DA's office," so who knows if he means that she's DA or an ADA? Since the show tends to go with max ridiculousness where she's concerned, she's probably DA. Plus - Kate Spencer died on screen for a reason.
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I'm gonna have to shut off my brain for those scenes and make sure I don't have any projectile objects nearby.
I convinced a lawyer friend of mine to watch Arrow (in exchange for me watching Hart of Dixie), and every time a legal scene comes on, I receive a flurry of angry text messages. When I told her about Laurel
becoming the DA
, she nearly had a rage blackout, haha.
(In all fairness, she's super critical of all fictitious legal proceedings, but she doesn't like Laurel, so her rants about Arrow are extra hilarious.)
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I don't even know what darkness she even let in.
Maybe she decided to stop getting her roots touched up. #badass
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He never said Oliver wasn't jealous in 210. He was specifically asked about the Barry Allen episodes and he answered about the Barry Allen episodes. The Barry Allen episodes are 208-209. Also Sa never walked back from that statement he said it quite early in that he didn't play Oliver is jealous. I know because I made a huge post on TWOP after 213/214 when fandom went apeshit over his comments. The interview in in February just seems to be the one that sticks out in people's minds for some reason and is constantly repeated as an example of the EPs/SA walking back from previous statements.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I actually wasn't even watching the show back then (and I don't think I've read any interviews from that time), but I do see that quote about Oliver not being jealous a lot - I didn't know he was speaking about specific episodes.
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EPs and SA sounded on the same page at Comic Con but only time will tell.
Since SA said the reasoning behind the "one woman" thing for Oliver was because of some things they were trying to sell in the premiere, I really freaking hope they stay on the same page. If not this show is even more hopeless than I thought in the storytelling department.
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That coupled with the interview SA gave TVLine where he talked about the hook-up and how Oliver wasn't actually jealous in 2x08-2x10 (when in a previous interview he said something about how "you don't always know how you feel about your friend until somebody else likes them" and as well as an interview on of the EPs gave that said that Oliver was jealous) really turned me off from the show for a while.
Which is ridiculous, because the fact that he was jealous was actually written into the show since, you know, Diggle called him out on it. It must be difficult trying to rationalize his character's motivations when the writers keep throwing plot twists to the wall to see what sticks.
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LOL! Well that's one way to solve the argument. :D
Haha, seriously.
I like this one better, but damn Starling City. Can't you be left alone for five minutes without someone setting you on fire? Look at that mess!
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As fans, people need to realize that this is entertainment for us but it is very much an actor's real life
Plus, I imagine some of this must bleed over on set and it probably makes things tense from time to time. That's got to suck.
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I didn't find the "you'll always be my girl" scene patronizing because Felicity said it first:
Oliver: You all right? Diggle had mentioned that maybe you were feeling…a little left out.
Felicity: What? No.
Felicity: I was just…use to being your girl.
Felicity: I mean, not your girl-girl.
Felicity: Your girl.
Felicity: I know it sounds like the same word, but it means something different in my head.
(Oliver cradles Felicity’s head)
Felicity: Mmm.
Oliver: Hey.
Felicity: Hmm?
Oliver: You will always be my girl, Felicity.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with it either. Maybe I've spent too much time around people on painkillers (or maybe I'm a Oliver-level jerk), but I almost always patronize them when they say loopy things - it's part of the fun of being the sober one. What was he supposed to do, have a serious conversation with her about her place on the team while she's high?
Since she said it first and he repeated it back to her to placate her in that moment, eh...of all the OOC/questionable things that happened in that ep, I take no issue with that one.Yeah, the writers could've addressed Felicity's insecurity in another way/at another time when she wasn't on painkillers, but coulda, woulda, shoulda, I guess.
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I'm hard pressd to be critical of SA for anything - he's so good to his fans and he goes out of his way to engage and interact with people who watch the show. I think he's very gracious and I love that he takes the time to run his own Facebook page and I enjoy the fact that he doesn't censor himself. But I think it's a good lesson to learn in any buisness where you're dealing with the public that it's never a good idea to call any group of fans or "fans" or anyone who's being critical of your product (whether you think it's fair or not) any kind of derogatory names. He can think that, he can express it privately, but just don't put it out there. It's just never going to have a positive outcome.
The only reason the poster is even getting that much attention is because it's been 4 months since the finale and people are chomping at the bit for new content, so every little thing that comes out is going to be analyzed to death. Working the long hours he does, it has to be rough to be putting in so much effort and having people lose their shit over a poster.
So, I get that it's frustrating to see all that stuff, and he has every right to be annoyed by it, but there are better ways to go about telling people not to post it. He doesn't have to be diplomatic about anything (and I'd really rather him not be - I enjoy him as a person as he is), but he should probably be diplomatic about THAT.
And he doesn't need to tell people to stop watching the show if they're not happy with it - don't worry, if it gets to that point, they will. And if there are certain people who are spewing hate about Katie, he should just ban them and be done with it or make a post that he won't tolerate hateful messages about his co-workers. If people are being hateful about Laurel (or other characters) it would probably be best to just ignore that.
Take a deep breath, fandom. Enjoy the gift SA is giving you by being SO accessible - it's truly rare these days, and I'd hate for a certain group of people to screw it up. No need to take any of that to his page, because he's right - that's what the rest of the internet is for.
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Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.
in Characters of Arrow
· Edited by apinknightmare
All that would prove to me is that all the employees of CNRI were morons with no sense of self-preservation. I get they were there to save files or whatever, but it would've come off so much better if the the writers had them go and actually get their clients out of the Glades - showing that they were risking themselves (and others, as it turns out) to save human lives instead of paper.