Ralphster

I have a theory about Ma, Laura, and Rose. Ma raised her children in a way that we would consider unfeeling. It even stood out at the time that Ma was not particularly loving, as Laura later said she never felt as though she had been loved by Ma. She apparently raised Rose the same way, as Rose said the same thing about her relationship with Laura. I get hints of narcissism from all three of them. Trauma is a hotbed for narcissism to form as you are by necessity forced to focus on yourself. I can understand completely why all three of them became rather self-absorbed women; their lives were objectively hard and there isn't much love left to go around when you are exhausted just by daily living. Rose, I think, was sexually abused in Florida. Obviously I could be wrong, but that weird story she wrote about innocence being corrupted has all kinds of hints about sexual abuse in it. People who are sexually abused usually have complex PTSD (C-PTSD) and over 90% of borderline personality patients have been sexually abused; both of these disorders are indistinguishable from bipolar disorder in terms of the emotional volatility they cause. I can't say for certain, of course, but I believe she had C-PTSD and/or borderline personality disorder (BPD) instead of bipolar disorder. C-PTSD and BPD have only recently been studied and extensively written about, so people in Rose's time would not have had an inkling that her behaviour was anything other than manic-depression. All three women come across as horror stories in their private lives and I would not want to have known any of them. I grew up with my own version of "Ma" and I have had enough of emotionally unavailable people to last me 10 lifetimes. All of them remind me very strongly of my own mother and grandmother.

Conversely, Sean and his mother are giving Dr. Now all the warning signs of being seriously mentally ill and in need of intensive help, and he is ignoring them.

I think we just see things very differently. Peggy was definitely desperate to be married. See: Guy who she pretended to be a virgin with, agreeing to move in with Abe when she clearly wanted a proposal instead, bitching at Shirley that "We all know you're engaged" and raging about the flowers, etc., etc. Peggy was one of those women who wants to be married just to be married, even if she and everyone else know the guy is a loser. She won't inconvenience her career to do it, but she is absolutely one of those women. I think if you're willing to screw the guy who happened to be with you when you get robbed at gunpoint, your marriage is not on its strongest legs. Saying it's "on life support" per se (which weren't my original words, by the way, they're your words) is semantics in this situation. The marriage is crap if you're going to do that. I don't think saying that Greg should have gone to jail was meaningless at all. He should have, and he could have. He and Joan weren't married yet, and it happened in a public place. These are two huge things that would have helped to get Greg thrown in jail, had Joan wanted to actually object to his treatment of her. But she didn't, because it would have spoiled her image and ruined her planned marriage to a rich doctor. (I know Greg wasn't rich yet, but that was the plan.) She wanted to be Sylvia, basically, but failed. That's not necessarily a bad thing, given how awful Sylvia is. But I digress. Joan refused to jeopardize her future marriage even though the guy raped her. That's some serious desperation to get married! No, Joan never was a trailblazer, and that is exactly my point. She struts around all high and mighty, pretending to be worldly, but she has the mindset of a smalltown housewife. She wants everything to LOOK perfect, just as society expects, even if it is a lie. But that's just it: She treats other people as though they're smallminded and whatnot, because she's this big brave secretary in Manhattan, but she is a huge hypocrite. The instances of her hypocrisy in the show are legion and self-explanatory. Since you apparently would like to judge the characters strictly within the 1960s milieu (which has its merits), then Joan was a big old whore-bag when she decided to sleep with that Jaguar creep. No one at that time could have or would have seen her in any other light, because that is exactly what she became when she accepted payment for sex. There is no defense of this behaviour. There is no wheedling the actions into "girl power" or "self preservation." What Joan did was the very definition of prostitution. Joan whored herself out and Harry, who deserved a partnership, got screwed in an entirely different way. Joan's lie about Kevin's paternity is wrong for all the reasons I discussed, none of which you addressed. Joan is wrong to lie about the paternity and Greg is wrong to rape Joan. Period. They're terrible, awful people who deserve each other.

Just because people have behaved poorly from time immemorial doesn't mean it's okay to still act poorly. If anything, looking upon history should impart lessons to the observer, but it usually doesn't. Committing paternity fraud is MAJORLY poor behaviour. It's an enormous lie with far-reaching consequences and implications - wrapped up in this lie are medical, historical, identity, and inheritance issues, plus a ton more. The child deserves to know his true parentage, for starters; he deserves to know who he is and where he comes from. We all look to our family histories, or rather what we know (or don't know) of them, to help us figure out where we came from. Kevin deserves no less. And just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right. History is rife with laws that stank morally. There are recent stories here in the US of men whose wives committed paternity fraud and who were forced by the courts to support the child anyway, even after proving via DNA that the child wasn't theirs. This is disgraceful and outrageous. As for Joan's motivations - I don't think the paternity fraud was done out of spite, either, but again, it was not morally right. Greg is a rapist and should have been thrown in jail, but he still has a right to know whether he has actually fathered a child. The reasons for this are numerous and presumably self-explanatory. Joan should not have married him after he raped her; her marrying him was tacit approval of his actions. How could it be construed in any other way? "You raped me, and I'm so angry about it that I'm going to marry you" is the dynamic there. It's beyond messed up. She was that desperate for a man that she settled for the man who raped her. In this regard she's even more desperate for a man than Peggy is. I can't envision Peggy marrying a man who coldly raped her in her boss's office. Joan's decision was selfish in that it made her image in the eyes of others run perfectly according to plan, but it did not take into account what was best for Kevin (more on that below). I don't feel it was practical because what really would be practical would be to divorce the cretin who raped you and have the child on your own, rather than pumping life support into what is, and has been from the beginning, a failing marriage. It would be so much simpler and drama-free to have the child on your own, keeping the paternity a secret except from the one man who deserves to know. Except Joan's primary concern is to do with how other people perceive her. Hence, she would never dare to have a child on her own, out of wedlock. She talks a glamorous game and certainly looks the part, but she's too smallminded and insecure to go against the grain in this way. What about Kevin, long-term? People who are raised thinking Bob is their father but find out it was really Otis the Mailman are inevitably confused and feel a sense of betrayal. What Joan has done is to guarantee that either A) Kevin will have trust issues and grapple with a great deal of confusion and uncertainty, especially regarding how he views himself, once he learns of his true paternity; or B) he will never know his true history or where he comes from. This was not a decision made out of Kevin's best interest but of Joan's. The essence of Joan is someone who humped her way to a fortune but still feels like a victim. She could really do with some introspection at some point. Maybe that would help curb her selfish, petty nature a little bit. @txhorns79 "I do think the show cheated its way out of the real moral implications of Greg being lied to about his paternity by having him essentially abandon Kevin once he and Joan divorced. That way, we the audience can overlook what Joan has done because Greg doesn't even care that he has a child with Joan." I agree with you completely! It would have been an interesting topic for the show to address, but to do so would have interrupted the show's subliminal messaging.

Oh dear. I really hope this doesn't pan out for her, because no child deserves these two shitbirds for parents. Or even one of them. Keep those gametes in check, y'all! I think you're absolutely right about why they moved to Ohio. Nicole's tiny-headed mother needs to just go away, mayhap join some kind of traveling minstrel show, for which she'd require minimal make-up.

That is so weird that for once, I'm at a loss for words. @nokat So true, "There's a village missing its idiot" is pretty much the gold standard for this kind of insult 🙂

Dr. Now was entirely in the wrong to dismiss the advice given Robin by the orthopedist. Her knees were bone-on-bone, and the orthopedist had told her that walking on them was just progressively grinding down the bone. Dr. Now is a bariatric and vascular surgeon, NOT an orthopedic surgeon, and there is a reason these two specialties are separate. He got all hot under the collar when the ER gave Angel a feeding tube (which actually made a modicum of sense, given that she was in a state of malnutrition), yet it's all hunky dory for him to dismiss the opinion of someone whose entire specialty is bones and their associated diseases, because... why? It takes an unbelievable amount of arrogance to assume the role of specialist in a field other than that you have actually trained for, and to give patients counterproductive advice like this. Dr. Now needs to stay in his lane, rather than behaving like a hubristic fuckstick. I used to like him back when I'd only seen a handful of episodes, but he has done so many stupid things across the seasons that it's hard to ignore how much of an idiot he is. Due to his overwhelming ego, I can't really stand him anymore.

🙂 Steal away, my friend! I, as a matter of fact, borrowed it from the schoolyard of years ago (albeit, I rephrased it). There's also the perennial classic "a few clowns short of a circus." It's also nice to say "dumber than a box of hair" rather than the commonplace, and expected, "stupid." 😉

I really don't agree with the part in bold. Nicole thinks she's trying, basically because she herself is not a drug addict, but that's the only bar she's hit, and she's using this one point in her favour to fuel her belief that she's a competent parent. In reality, she's screaming, behaving erratically, and using illogical and incorrect justifications for her screaming and erratic behaviour. She is coupling this rage-a-holic behaviour pattern with sheer neglect of both children. She and Charlie are creating an utterly chaotic environment for the children, which is the same kind of environment that caused her to spiral into the nightmarish person she is. That she even thinks screaming like that in public is justifiable in the first place illustrates very well that she is not equipped to raise children. No parent is perfect; it is widely recognised that "good enough parenting" is exactly as described, good enough to produce more or less well-adjusted, functional adults, but Nicole is missing that goalpost by many country miles. Her children are going to turn out just like her and her parents, and it's sickening to watch it happen. That little boy is already displaying signs of anger and PTSD. She and Charlie are not fit to raise pigeons, let alone human children.

Oh Lord, have I ever! SO MUCH material there, it's hard to know where to start! Cracked up at "loud mouth lard." XD So apt, so to the point. Seriously, though, I find Nicole beyond hateful. She is trashing her children's lives and like any other narcissist, only cares about her own shitty childhood. She gives no shits that she is inflicting the same song-and-dance onto the next generation. The "Where are they now?" episode with her was unreal; the way she screamed at Charlie at the gas station, right across her children's faces, was horrifying. I grew up with that kind of shit and it's TERRIFYING when your parents scream across you like that. I hope Nicole gets run over by a steamroller. She's full of rage and very, very frightening. Short of divine intervention, it's guaranteed that her children will be mentally ill and highly dysfunctional. Schenee is several fries short of a Happy Meal, but at least she isn't inflicting her issues onto innocent children that we could see. It's a disgrace that Nicole's children haven't been removed from the home. I know the excuses that social services gives, but seriously, she is abusing those children day in and day out and they deserve better.

Every time Brianne wanted food but was alone, she got up just fine and made the harrowing trek to the fridge with fearless vigor. She retrieved that cheesecake swirley thing, no problem. But if daughter was home as well, it became, "Could you warm this up for me? Could you make that for me? Could you fetch this for me?" You lazy bitch. Do it yourself instead of making your daughter your constant beck-and-call girl. She has a job and yet you have her up every five minutes fetching food. And on the flight from PDX to Houston, she and Rick made the whole goddamned planeful of people wait while Rick went to make sure the wheelchair was available, and then while Brianne heaved herself out of her seat and lumbered slowly up the gangplank. She should have waited to get off the plane as a courtesy to the other passengers, especially given that inevitably somebody on a flight needs to make a tight connection. Verdict: Brianne is a selfish, lazy asshole. She didn't love her family, she craved love from others. She's a black hole of neediness and toddler-like self-obsession.

It wasn't the lip-kissing per se that was the problem, as I explained in my post. It was the fact that he appeared to grab her head and pull her in for that kiss, like he was forcing her to do it. And then the next kid deliberately turned her head and shoulders away from him when it was her turn for a hug, so he wasn't able to do that with her. It is pretty clear, by the way, that Hand Lotion thinks of Cillas as a father figure; no one is disagreeing there. I don't find it appropriate, but whatever. That isn't the thing I have a problem with; it's the behaviour I described above. I also think the other girls hate both her and Cillas. Why do they feel that way toward her and Cillas? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

I noticed something re-watching his episode. (Still not weight-bearing after surgery. I am bored.) When he is in the hospital about to go in for surgery, the kids are giving him the obligatory hug. Little Hand Lotion (I can't bring myself to type her stupid-ass name again) was hugging him because they have a weird relationship, but then one of the blonde girls goes in to give him what is clearly a reluctant hug. He grabs her head and kind of forces her face against his so that he can kiss her on the lips. It is the way he seems to force her head into position that bothers me. The next blonde girl immediately turns her face and shoulders far away from him, so that he can only give her a half-hearted pat on the back before releasing her. Very, very strange shit is going on here. Jessica needs to wake the fuck up.

I agree. There is something not right about this. In the church photo someone posted above, one of the blonde daughters has her arms crossed and looks hugely uncomfortable. Interestingly, Cillas has his arm around her. I would not trust him alone with children, but clearly Jessica feels differently. I found Nevaeh (what a stupid fucking name!) to be irritating and attention-obsessed. She was more than old enough to behave better in the hospital/doctor's office, but her pathetic parents allowed her to act like a toddler, screeching and running around. Their conduct wasn't really surprising, though; they are trashy people, especially Jessica. She oozes self-absorption like a snail oozes little shiny trails. Cillas wore a cap to a nice restaurant because he has no concept of how to comport himself, and neither does Jessica. She has serious emotional problems right along with Cillas. There is something very cold and unfeeling about that woman. To say I dislike her is a massive understatement. She is loathsome. To be fair, Cillas is pretty self-absorbed, too. They're likely raising little narcissists in their own image. Then again, what else is new.

LOL My back was injured because a nurse didn't move me properly. I fell. She also didn't report the fall. This happens far more often than you'd like to think.