CabotCove
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Posts posted by CabotCove
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I see it as a split between them. Thea is getting the shady grey stuff and Felicity the unflappable seat of power.
If you put it that way.
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Guys. We have to talk about Felicity.
I'm gonna personally skip anything to do with her interactions with Oliver and just focus on how the show is twisting her for Laurel. For LAUREL. Not for Ray or to stall Olicity. But for Laurel.
How is talking about Felicity in relation to Laurel different from talking about her in relation to Oliver or any other person?. Its all relationship thread talk.
Agree this thread should be more about Felicity as a character, however that can be achieved.
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And let's not forget that Sara also said (right before she died) that Oliver wasn't his mask and he needed people who don't wear them. Sorry but the only woman not wearing a mask anymore is Felicity.
Yes she did, but are we really taking Sara's words as gospel, about light, masks, anything. Its just one woman's opinion. Helena had her own contrasting opinion about "darkness never coming out"
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There's a big difference between admitting your own faults and having a friend criticize you when you're DEAD to make your sister feel better about taking your place.
Colleague, when did Felicity and Sara become such best buds. If Sara is dead, she cant know can she lol, therefore it cant hurt her. Seriously, they have been crapping on Sara since she was alive, whats more one person when she is gone. Had it been Sin saying this on the other hand, who has been the closest person to Sara in recent years, I could get the "betrayal". And I would think if Sara was alive, she wouldn't mind much someone like Felicity (or anyone for that matter) saying something she considers to be her truth. There was hope for her redemption, but she died without fully achieving it.
How was that propping Felicity? All Sara said was that she couldn't be with Oliver because he needed someone who could harness the light inside of him...and she never named names. Of course now that I think of the line in that episode....and Felicity saying Laurel has a light inside of her......it really ended up propping....Laurel..:(Some evidence suggest otherwise that Sara was referring to Felicity at the time.
Not that Sara didn't do her share of propping Laurel too.
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Laurel has a light inside her? So does my refrigerator. Doesn't mean I want to watch it fight crime each week.
Ok thats funny.
This went down in basically my worst case scenario way. Felicity had to tear Sara down in order to build Laurel up--the true mark of a shitty character.
Sara already teared down herself before she left Starling the first time, but it was OK back then, it was to prop Felicity/Olicity.
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I'm so done with the writers using Felicity to prop other characters up with ridiculous lines like “You have a light inside you that she didn’t have” which is blatantly not true and not something Felicity would ever say about Sara.
Its about time she gets the honors, everyone else does it. Sara did her time.
I loved the Thea/Oliver reveal and got verklempt, actually the whole episode did what I've been asking for all year: it breathed, people had actual conversations. If only the things they were saying made a fucking lick of sense.Ditto to that.
And by the way, as a non-shipper, I find this fight over who Oliver's light is rather asinine. The light should be something that Oliver finds within himself and not something he latches onto via proxy (Felicity or Laurel).I totally agree. I think Barry said something like that, Oliver being the light or something.
Except that not only was Felicity in the room, but they followed that scene up with several more which bathe Oliver in light when he's with Felicity - the clocktower scene, the beach scene, their first kiss, the discussion with Barry, and so on. This hasn't been at all subtle.I didnt realise only one character was capable of being the light of the whole world. Arrow of now full of heroes, costumed or otherwise, they are many good people with light inside them and capable of inspiring others.
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It makes no sense to get the audience angry at Felicity and Ray when they want viewers to like him enough for his own show. Hopefully one of the three EPs has some sense.
Shippers are hardly the main part of the audience. And if there is an Atom show and its good, comics fans and new fans (who might not even heard of Arrow) will more than make up for the viewership. The show will hardly be affected because Ray took "Oliver's girl" at one point. We knew a new love interest for Felicity was coming since he was "Daniel", what has changed now, wouldn it be such a waste if he was there and he or their relationship wasnt treated seriously.
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I used to think that they were going to make Thea the new Moira but maybe it's Felicity instead except she's not going to be so grey.
I see nothing to suggest Felicity is or will be a new "Moira". Thea is the one who is happily working with the devil while Felicity is reluctant to do so.
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Yep. It doesn't matter what woman is his love interest - Laurel, Baby Mama, Starfire, Supergirl, etc. These writers don't want Oliver to be happy, and until that changes, or they become better writers, we'll get the same stupid plot points that don't make sense and don't allow Oliver to grow. At this point, I don't doubt Olicity will get together in the season finale, we'll miss all of their relationship, and then some other lame stall will pop up 45 minutes into 4.01.
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I don't deny that the writers can be pretty bad at writing romance in this show, but to me there is just an extra bad way they are handling Olicity because the woman in it is Felicity. Felicity, the fan favorite , the special and pure one, we have to protect her at all cost like an egg. Oliver's regression and incompetence just seems more magnified and exaggerated because of the character he is put opposite to. Just maybe if i the romance was with another "dark" character or one they don't hold so highly, things might be different. Yes they will still be the same writers but each dynamic is different, just like Olicity is different from Lauriver because they don't have the same baggage, not traditional comic canon etc. If Oliver was paired with Supergirl just maybe they would spend more time kicking extra terrestrial ass than the I cant be with you because you will get hurt drama nonsense. Hypothetically speaking, of course, supergirl will likely never be in this show. Thea and Roy are in the same show yet they feel more mature and almost drama free when compared to Olicity, why, probably because they dont have the same popularity and expectations as Olicity. Taking into consideration also that they are not the main romance and characters. Olicity had/s the potential to be a saving grace for Oliver, but because of what they are and if they are handled wrongly, they might just end up doing the reverse.
It's healthier than any of his previous ships.Maybe true, they have the head start by being baggage-less but this is their first season as an official romance, who knows where they will end up in a couple of years with this kind of writing...
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And then Barry with that pepper. Ugh. Manipulating a girl into going out with you again is not a good look.
I dont see it as manipulating, to me he was just trying to prove he likes her. I see it as a running joke between them considering what happened on their first date. Its not like the pepper was going to kill him, thats different from say if he was holding a gun to his head or trying to jump off a bridge.
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They don't know what to do with her. The writers experience the same problem with Laurel on Arrow.
The truth is, they are only on these shows for one reason. They are the heroes' destined canon love-interests in the comics.
Well Laurel was "destined" to be the Black Canary, so there is that.
People are overreacting to Iris. She didn't even say anything wrong to Linda. She was trying to help. I liked that Linda was smart enough to figure it out. But at least now both Barry and Iris can move on. (Since apparently these BFFs never had a discussion about the Confession, or Linda.)It was a bit egotistical and obnoxious to tell Linda about an "unrequited love" of Barry's when she knows its her. It puts her in a bad light especially when the real reason Barry was running out on Linda was work/Flash business. It comes off completely off topic and seems just a way to ruin things between Barry and Linda. Do I hate Iris now, not at all but I fear this could be the start of her downspiral. I understand they are trying to parallel Linda to Iris (showing that Barry has a type or something) but its also very dangerous, with Linda being another reporter, WOC, canonical Flash love interest. Linda came off really likable in this episode and "Lois Lane" like to me, some people might just start preferring B/L over B/I. Linda makes Iris look easily replaceable. Smallville ran into the same problem with Chloe/Lois, two characters who filled a similar niche. Not to mention it was really weird that they had Barry officially referring to Joe as his foster dad, pretty much putting Iris in the position of a foster sister. Its one thing to deduce it from their relationship/s and another for the characters to confirm it.
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Right and if it continued that way for all the episodes afterwards (and the ones before) then you'd have a real reason..but for there to be just one ep where Caitlin had more focus...I don't think worrying or jumping to conclusions is needed now.
Agree. Other characters need their centric episodes too, Iris time will come. Besides, I think that the first half did have a decent amount of Iris
The point is you and some other fans of Iris are just invested in her comic book character and you expected her to have more prominence on the show. I'm not saying you are wrong to do that, you probably aren't, but she isn't a second lead, like Abby on Sleeping Hollow, she's just another secondary character here, just one whose actress is second billed and whose role is that of a love interest.
Iris is the Flash's female lead/leading lady, there is no doubt in my mind about that, thats different from being a co lead I think the way Abbie (sleepy hollow) is. Yes, in most shows love interests of a main character tend to get the second leading status regardless of how much screentime and focus they get, thats the way it has been done mostly. Though in some few shows its different and changing a lot recently.
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As a big Firestorm, this is the episode I have been waiting for!
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I think this is false, from a comic perspective. If you think back to Smallville, the writers didn't let that happen. Chloe/Clark never became the go to couple, even though that fan base was really, really rabid and extremely loud. They actually stuck with comic canon on that with Lana and Lois. None of that changed. None of it. DC comics likely would have stepped in if they'd tried to make Chloe/Clark the OTP over Clois. There is just no way.
Smallville happened before Twitter and Tumbrl were kings of social media and fan participation. Besides the Chloe/Clark faction was certainly loud but not an exceptionally massive fandom to exert change. Also back then it was pre new 52, when 70 years of mythology mattered more.
The other examples you've shown? Of other comic couples? None of them are comic royalty like Lois/Clark or Iris/Barry, as has already been said.There is no such thing as comic royalty these days, but I guess Lois/Clark come close. As for Barry/Iris, they certainly are The Flash/Barry's most iconic couple but they are not as universally well known and as developed as Clark/Lois. Clark and Lois have had their own show, been in dozens of Superman movies and cartoons, they are in a league of their own. More than a comic book supercouple, they are pop culture. Lois had her own comic books, Iris has never had. I would even argue Green Arrow & Black Canary have been far more in the spotlight in recent years than Barry/Iris. They are way too many flashes and they broke Flash comic canon
when they paired Wally West with Artemis Crock in Young Justice instead of Linda Park, which became a really popular pairing
. Apart from Lois most female non superhero love interests are severly under-developed. That being said I love what they have been doing with Barry/Iris (aka WestAllen) in this show, this is possibly the biggest platform they have ever been in so far. Their chances are really good thus far. They will possibly get boosted by the upcoming Flash movie.
As phoenics mentioned neither Sara or Abby are anywhere near as groundbreaking as Candice's Iris, for the same reason that most would find it wild if anyone other than a white actress played the parts of Mary Jane or Lois Lane.I disagree, Nicole as Abbie Mills role is far more groundbreaking than Candice/Iris. Its a black woman as hero and co- lead of a show instead of a love interest on some guy's show. And her show is on Fox not on the CW, and in a role thats originally and specifically written for a black woman. Of course the casting of Candice as Iris West is special too in its own way.
Those are exactly the reasons why Iris and Barry were expected to be the underdog couple in the fandom, despite their canon status, because their set up was obviously not going to be to a lot of people's taste. Nor was it very sexy, as CW couples go. And yet, WestAllen are a hit.
I tend to think their popularity is due to solid execution. While far from unique, their story has been well constructed thus far by setting up Barry's (as of now) unrequited love for Iris as sincere and plausible, as opposed to the more common distant crush.
I dont agree they were set up as the underdog, but I agree the execution has been good and the chemistry is certainly there.
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think they are making her the star of her own life and now that she's no longer a 100% Oliver cheer-leader and is making choices for herself, that's when the hate comes. She's working for Ray Palmer because she didn't want to die in the lair with Oliver, she left Team Arrow (so did Diggle but Felicity's getting the hate) and now she's disagreeing with Oliver after everything he went through. Even though she's still as much a part of Team Arrow as she ever was, people aren't happy because she's stepped out from Oliver's shadow and making decisions about her own life and how she wants to live it.
Exactly. Sounds like she is becoming like other female characters in the show: Liberated. Oh how much the hate starts to pour in.
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Luke Mitchell joining Agents of SHIELD
http://tvline.com/2015/02/05/agents-of-shield-season-2-cast-luke-mitchell-inhuman/
Good for him. I might just watch the episodes he is in.
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They aren't regressing Oliver for the 'ship, though. They're regressing him to DELAY the 'ship because the showrunners are convinced they can't have the main couple in a stable relationship this early in a show's run.
Right, because of the so called, "moonlight curse", I get that. I just think that with Olicity they should be able to overcome this fear of a moonlight curse. They have professed the ship as the main, right and healthy one for Oliver. They has to be a difference in the way they handle them from the other Oliver ships and how it affects the two characters in the ship especially Oliver, otherwise whats the point. Felicity/Olicity was supposed to be a different and new thing for Oliver , I want them to show me that.
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Having said that of course I want Oliver to evolve and learn for his own sake rather than because he's trying to "win" Felicity, my issue has always been that not only does he not get to grow, they actively REGRESS the man merely to delay having him pursue Felicity unambiguously, and they do it via these ridiculous story contortions: the bomb in The Calm, Sara's murder by Thea/Malcolm, his death on the mountain, his allying with Malcolm despite everything we have ever seen ever on this show.
Thats it! thats one of my big problems with Olicity (though I understand Sara's murder and the bomb in calm as obstacles). They are certainly regressing Oliver for Olicity alright, and this is supposed to be the healthy ship and option for Oliver? rhetorical question. Its so bad when they have to change (negatively too) characters for a ship. From what I hear, one of the major selling point for Olicity is that she (or rather her involvement with him) moves him forward and makes him a better person, if that is now doing the reverse maybe its time for someone new for him.
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I think it's a marketing mistake to drop Diggle and Felicity and thus the readers that they could get from viewers of the TV show but what do I know? (Other than a former job at an ad agency, that is.)
Well no one can say they didn't give it a try, they tried it and comic sales flopped. AK being the writer did not help either.
No offense to Diggle and Felicity but comic books are places for superheroes (or villains) and history matters. These two are too new and too civilian to make a difference in the comic world.
The writing is good but EBR makes TV Felicity what she is, how she moves and delivers her lines, thats not something you can replicate in a script. The actress does a lot of the heavy lifting. DR does a good job as Diggle as well.
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I honestly think they are ruining and mishandling the Olicity arc, its one of the most negatively affected storylines for me this season, if not the most. Im not their shipper but in the previous seasons, I almost couldn't find a reason to be against them, they were almost too healthy, but now I have tons of reasons. Now they are in danger of becoming the most unhealthy and toxic relationship in show, that's no small fit with the likes of Lauriver around. Ok maybe its not possible to get that bad. Its not just because of drama, thats almost a given in any show, its because their drama is becoming that of the worst kind. Weak reasoning and too contrived. And they are not even really together yet, how bad can it get when they finally are together.That being said, a good reason im ok with how they handled it is that they haven't bumbled or mishandled the olicity arc, as they have with pretty much every other arc they have going this season
The show had really two good options for them, either continue doing a slow burn or put them together and stay together, but they chose to go this ridiculous route. Whatever that is.
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Well I think the show would be quite monotonous if it was only about Oliver. If I recall, Felicity also got an origin story. Sure she is no superhero like atom and canary. Its still about Oliver, he still has the most screentime and focus, but he doesn't exists in a vacuum. Both Smallville and the Flash have/had other superhero origins stories.It is still about Oliver's journey primarily, or it should be, this season has been rather a mess trying to shoehorn in origin stories for Laurel's Canary and the Atom.z
The problem with this season, is that it hasn't felt like anything is really ABOUT Oliver. I hope Oliver's return this episode means (and if I could demand it ) that the story resumes being about Oliver Queen's journey.
Fair enough. I understand that point. Not sure I agree but I understand it.
True, but I have would rather still want the protagonist of my favorite show making his own decisions , even wrong decisions than for him to be hand held all the time by either Felicity or Diggle. And I want to understand Oliver's POV and what's going on in his head through his eyes, not always through someone else's . And I'm not saying I don't appreciate when he consult or get advice from others because I do, just not all the time and ultimately I just think that he should have the final say and choice about things that concern his life IMO. Being part of a relationship, family, team doesnt mean one has to completely surrender their agency does it.It's about Oliver journey but that doesn't mean that Oliver is alway right.
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The show is ABSOLUTELY about what Felicitys version of a hero and Diggles for that matter are, not just Oliver's. The entire first season was all about what a hero should really be doing. The "team" aspect of arrow has always been important and Oliver has always needed help with the morals of the situation. This has been an ongoing point throughout the series. So for him to make that decision without them was a but of a betrayal of their partnership and the decision itself is fraught with pitfalls. Diggle made the point earlier in the episode so it was clear, despite all the idiot whitewashing of Merlin's actions, he made the point himself to Thea. He is a killer.
Since when?. Arrow has always been sold as Oliver Queen's story/show. Apparently the team aspect wasn't important enough for this show to be called team arrow instead its only Arrow. Besides Felicity and Diggle aren't the only ones in his team, it has since expanded to include a bunch a people, and Oliver remains the main protagonist. From screentime, promotions, storylines etc, a lot proves that he is not in the same league as the others.
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Such is the power of Felicity Smoak LOL.Probably not. DC is already dumping Andrew Kreisberg and the other guys and bringing in a new creative team in a few months.
Green Arrow #37 -20 904
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Well I will agree with you on the first part , that's awesome.Diggle trended the entire episode apparently. Newsflash to the writers. More diggle, less the other useless character.
@Quarks. Ok I stand corrected about the actual episode count thanks, the rest, Im just going to agree to disagree with you there, except maybe on your last paragraph.
The age difference is too great for them to be friends and Diggle's skill set different from Roy's. I think if there is any mentoring of Roy happening, it's going to be with Oliver.
I would expect their scenes/interaction together at least, something.
Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi
in Characters of Arrow
· Edited by Conell
E.g she still wears clothes, have funny/interesting quotes, does her jobs... That could be some topics of discussion.
Better. Yeah its definately tricky alright.