Megara

I echo everyone else who's saying there's a lot going on, but I would say my favorite standouts are definitely Robina, Kasia, and Douglas. I love Jonah Hauer-King's acting as Harry as well, and am really excited to see him in TLM. Overall I would say it's definitely entertaining, and has been a great way to spend a Sunday night.

Ahh Blake didn’t let himself be played for long at all. He basically said to Tony she’s the type that thinks men are their toys, and left to go to Poland. And after he left, Mary made a point of telling Robert that Charles decided he wasn’t going to pursue her before she made a decision—which is an interesting thing to say for someone who was supposedly playing him. I suspect there might have been even a bit of regret in her part. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Charles Blake was the original plan up until Matthew Goode’s schedule opened up, which is a real shame. He was evenly matched with her in terms of intelligence, and if you’ll recall he was absolutely not impressed by her at first, and even then he wasn’t falling all over himself and declaring his love for her every five minutes like everyone else. And once she made it clear she was picking Tony: “I’m not the type to die of a broken heart. I’m sorry if that offends you.” Also the conversation they have right before she goes to Liverpool with Tony had more chemistry than I think any scene she had with anyone else aside from him after. There was definitely more going on with those two and you can tell. I love Evelyn (and was rooting for him while it was airing 😂), but I find it really surprising that you think he had more backbone than Blake. Mary said he was “pining” and I’m pretty sure that was true from what we saw on screen. I definitely loved his self awareness in the scene you’re referring to.

I love that. That’s exactly what I hoped would have happened pre-Season 4. It would have been really touching for her to realize that. He may not be the most exciting person (though really he was a Foreign Office guy before the war and his stories would have been fascinating) but you’re right, he was loyal and he was kind and kindness is something that is super underrated in the romantic options she had. I think the fact that Evelyn was right there too is why I can never accept Henry. He had no excuse acting the way he did.

I’m curious—what do you like about Evelyn? I liked him an awful lot too, but he actually respected her unlike Henry.

She definitely should have ended up with Charles Blake. I would have loved Tom running for Parliament and I think his relationship with Mary’s new husband in this scenario would have been so interesting, given he was from Northern Ireland and about to inherit an estate there. The thing I like about Charles is he didn’t play her game (and called it for what it was in that one scene when he was talking with Tony “her wish is to hold all men enthralled” which was so refreshing). And they actually had chemistry so yeah, hoping he comes back 😂 I also love how keen Julian Ovenden was even after he left the show. I mean: https://youtu.be/oU4reEQcbxU

As Lizzo would say, truth hurts 😂 It’s okay though, he got paid for it even if he didn’t enjoy it. On my rewatch of Season 6, it also occurred to me that Edith’s editor wasn’t in this as well and I kind of wish she had been. She and Tom had a nice rapport—it didn’t have to be romantic at all, but it would have been nice seeing him talking with a fellow journalist since everyone seems to forget he was one. Yet another reason I’m so against the snoozefest of a business partnership he’s gotten himself into. My wishlist for a sequel is bring back Charles Blake and Laura Edmunds.

I want a sequel. I think they’re definitely doing one. I just hope it has more of a plot, you know? In fact I want a sequel in the interest of getting an actual plot, I should say—it’s the only way you could justify one.

I mean given that he’s said in the past “I’m only in it for 5 minutes as I should be” I don’t think it’s his favorite role, which is fine. I understand that you like him but a lot of people didn’t 😂 I don’t know how much you were around at the time but like I said, the British papers and even the American papers were pretty explicit about how ridiculous it all was. He wasn’t universally liked and the positive reaction was tepid at best. The negative reviews were more numerous among the professional reviewers. If you notice the actors, producers, and Fellowes himself really stopped talking about that particular relationship directly after the show ended and focused on things like M/M until it was time to sell a movie. The reception of Henry Talbot wasn’t something like Matthew Crawley, and they were well aware of that because it’s obvious, just as they were aware that the saga of Mary’s men had been dragging for like two seasons and brought him in. It ended up falling flat, so how to minimize the damage—make it more about the ensemble, show him off for a few minutes, call it a day. Because I guarantee you if they thought he was essential beyond a few minutes, they would have tried harder to get him in the film. They said it was like wrangling cats, which I believe, but in the grand scheme of things, I’m rather happy to say that the powers that be and even Matthew Goode don’t find Henry terribly important, and there’s a reason for that. Both Goode being “busy” and his not being well received are sufficient conditions for his not being in the movie and not promoting the movie. The fact is he didn’t want to promote it if he didn’t promote it. Otherwise it would have been in his contract, and we would have seen him. The cast has no say in that. The guy wanted to hang out with his friends and move back to England (at the time before he took the part, he was in The Good Wife). Which is fine. But he doesn’t pretend it’s some great role because it isn’t, and if anything I respect that about him.

I never said he hated it, just that he doesn’t view it as a priority, which is his prerogative. And as I’ve said multiple times, I don’t blame him at all. Again, we’re talking about Henry Talbot and Mary Crawley’s “relationship”, and its reception, not the series as a whole. And more often than not, the professional reviewers picked up how weird it was and that it was rushed. @Hiyo Take up your dispute with entertainment law 😂I won’t bore you with a primer on contract negotiations, but the parties have to submit terms and come to a consensus. Given that he didn’t promote the show, it’s obvious that it wasn’t a part of his contract. Laura Carmichael, Joanne Froggatt, and Sophie McShera have definitely been doing interviews and promotions for this movie. And Coyle has at least done a press circuit for the show but Goode never has. It’s a thankless role, so if he’s too “busy” to promote it, I understand.

These were back in 2015/16 so I’d google Downton Abbey 6x08 reviews with all the respective papers (i.e. WSJ, NYT, Radio Times, Daily Mail) if you’re truly interested. Here’s one for your reading pleasure that I found particularly funny: https://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/downton-abbey-series-6-finale-mary-stole-the-show-quite-literally-a3107841.html Again, I would encourage you to seek them out for yourself if you do have an interest in what critics thought because the majority at best thought it was rushed and at worst thought along the lines of this one. Oh it’s not to say there’s bad blood, it’s just he didn’t want to do it (which could be scheduling and likely it not being terribly important to him in comparison with the other projects). He’s never been anything other than professional about it. But as I think I’ve said before, the industry standard is you promote the stuff you’re in because it’s usually part of your contract. If he wanted to promote it and wanted it a part of his contract, he would have been. He didn’t.

Nah, there was more going on behind the scenes and I understand the intention Fellowes had, but it definitely fell flat. I remember quite well because I watched it when it aired and all the big British papers (and even the American ones like the NYT and WSJ) definitely had a consensus of what the heck is going on here—certainly the majority did 😂They’re quite interesting. It’s kind of hilarious too that Cullen and Ovenden whose characters are objectively less important did promote the show (the latter when he was off the show in fact), and Goode didn’t with the movie. Again, if he wanted to, he could have, and he didn’t 😂 And just as a side note because I’m a nerd and in the legal world—he did have a contractual obligation once he agreed to be in the film. Now that might have been altered because of scheduling conflicts or it could have been something cleared up front, but obviously everyone involved had a contractual obligation. And usually with these contracts it’s the industry practice to do some promotion (unless you’re the great Dame Maggie Smith). I would infer from what actually happened that he didn’t have it in his contract (which would mean he didn’t want it in his contract because of course the show wants promotion).

He’s totally a playboy! I mean he drunk dialed a proposal from his dingy bachelor pad in London—that’s total 20s playboy behavior.

Not promoting the show/movie is pretty self-explanatory. And part of the reason aside from scheduling could be because the audience reception wasn’t ideal to his character (which makes me wonder if the 10 minutes was also intentional in addition to his availability). The critics while the show was airing echoed many of the concerns I raised, and although Fellowes doesn’t usually correct for that sort of thing, I’m sure he’s aware of it. If Goode really wanted to promote the film, he could have. Anyway, I don’t blame him for it at all. There’s only so much one can do with that script 😂

Scheduling and apparent lack of enthusiasm which I don’t blame him for.

I’d just like to put it out there too that I don’t blame Matthew Goode for this because it really is a thankless job, and I definitely understand his perhaps reluctance to promote the show given how the writing let him down. It’s interesting to me that he’s never really doing the cast interviews other than like maybe a handful which of course part of it is probably scheduling, but he wasn’t even at the BAFTA celebration a few years ago of the show and to me that’s pretty telling. He’s a good actor but Henry Talbot was an experience 😂

The writer screwed up all right concerning him 😂

I’m not a military expert by any means but I think the campaign medals are for if you were there and participated in the campaign, which would indicate he didn’t...which is why I can definitely buy the argument that he didn’t serve. Tom didn’t serve either which is why he had zero medals when all the men who did did have medals.

I hated that scene too for that precise reason.

I never said he regretted it, only he acknowledged that it wasn’t necessarily the “smart” choice when Edith outranks her now. I personally don’t care about his title, I just care that he’s more of the same—he bullied her into marriage. He, like Gillingham, could not take no for an answer. She was on the verge of a mental breakdown and he took advantage of her PTSD and guilt instead of giving her space and I personally think that’s disgusting. I say this as someone who was looking forward to his appearance on the show, but he just wasn’t a good man when you compare him to someone like Charles who when he knew she didn’t want a relationship, backed off and respected her wishes and saw her as an equal, instead of “If you’re trying to get rid of me, I’m going to make things as hard and as horrible as I can”. It just echoes of “If you’re trying to jilt me, just remember: you’ve given me the power to destroy you, and don’t think I won’t use it”, or Gillingham’s “Well I don’t accept your answer and this is something we’re going to get through together.” I mean what is with these men and their inability to recognize the fact that no means no?

Just not a fan of how emotionally abusive he came off as particularly in the episode where they got married. I just watched 5x04 last night and perhaps a more recent comparison would be with Lord Gillingham. They both have trouble comprehending the word “no.” Sometime in 2016 I believe. It’s been a while since I read it but his words were something along the lines of his being fearful people would question her motives. @Roseanna: I’m a law student and although Murray believed it was binding, I still think Robert had the basis of a challenge because of the vagueness of the last sentence. Now he wasn’t going to challenge it period, but I think it’s written in a way that there’s room for argument that his intentions were sole heiress until the child was of age. It would have been interesting had they actually gone to probate court 😂. I agree with you that he meant to leave it to Mary and I think the meaning behind that is wonderful and extremely romantic considering she was barred from having Downton because of the entail, but you’re right that he was extraordinarily careless for a lawyer. He should and would have had a will accounting for every contingency. Fellowes just did it for drama.

The only thing I’ll say in his defense is historically there would have been slim pickings after the war, so the decision worked out for him. Mary didn’t marry sensibly period, and Fellowes acknowledged that after the show ended. I think his excuse was had she married someone with better prospects, we would have questioned her motives. I questioned her motives because everybody else had to tell her and the audience she loved him. It was ridiculous. But I feel validated by another possible stain on his character 😂

I object to his entire existence but I’ll give you the short version: he’s a younger, allegedly fitter version of Sir Richard Carlisle in that he tells Mary what’s what and gets a pass because it’s Matthew Goode. Or he just didn’t serve because he didn’t want to and didn’t care.

Wouldn’t be the first time Henry Talbot or his did something objectionable.

Wasn’t his father a politician? Maybe he used his influence to get him out of it.

Interesting. Wonder if Julian Ovenden’s available...