[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

1 hour ago, Bitsy said:

Celeste wouldn't need to rush out and get a job immediately, but I really doubt she could live well for the rest of her life just on what Perry left behind.  And I do think she would want to continue to live well.  She may have furnished the apartment with Ikea, but it certainly was not a cheap apartment.  I don't see her giving up those ocean views.

Also, as she said in a previous episode, raising kids wasn't enough for her.  She wanted to work.

 

Plus, it would be as if he got to take something else from her that she valued about herself even as he died.  She was good at it.  She knew it, it helped give her self-worth.  That's partly why Perry didn't want her to work.  It gave her a sense of self-empowerment.  

I think it would have been tragic if Celeste lost her license to practice law, or was disbarred because of him.  It would feel like he'd succeeded in killing part of her.  

[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

9 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Why would she have to worry about supporting herself and the twins? She'd get everything from the marriage, even if Perry didn't leave a will. If she sold the house, she'd end up with a few more million dollars.

 

 

 

She would need to pay off whatever was owed on that house if she sold it and she'd keep the difference.   I'm assuming Perry would have life insurance and presumably, they have savings but selling the house might be the thing that yields the least, depending on how long they've had it.   I don't know that she'd be set for life and I don't think she'd actually get his life insurance if she'd killed him, even in self-defense but I confess, I don't know.  
I didn't really understand the detective's assertion that she'd get 12 months community service and "would be out in three-to-five (community service is assigned in hours, isn't it?).  If Celeste had killed him in defense of her own life, I didn't understand why there would be any charges.  

[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

I think Paul's wife might have been from Sabrina.   Google-fu reveals that Shailene Woodley is 5'8" to Witherspoon's 5'1".  Woodley also mentioned wearing heels to her babysitter, so she would have been coming in at about 5'11", I think.   Kidman had on 1 1/2" or 2" heels (visible when she was running up the stairs to get into the event).   

[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

31 minutes ago, stanleyk said:

I've got to disagree with the statement that Perry never did anything to isolate Celeste. He insisted she stop working. He became extra-controlling when she went to ONE meeting to help Maddy with the play. She lied to him on more than one occasion as to where she was going, indicating that he would have prevented her from going if he knew what it was about. He insisted she get off the phone when she was talking to a friend. It seemed to be a common mode for him to attempt to get her to have sex with him right before they were due at a social engagement (i.e., to prevent them from going). And in one of the therapy sessions, Celeste herself said something like "he doesn't like me to spend time with my (family? friends?)". I can't remember exactly what she said, but she definitely vocalized that Perry attempted to isolate her. If he had actually refused her a phone, a car, access to her friends, that would have certainly not allowed either of them to keep up the charade of the "perfect family." There are more ways to isolate someone than actually keeping them semi-prisoner, and Perry seemed to excel at those. 

 

 

I agree, Perry actually did engage in several classic abuser behaviors.  I don't think the writers wanted anyone to sympathize with or like Perry, or feel pity for him either.  It's just good characterization to add in layers to a depiction.  I think it's also more interesting for an actor to play but I am sure this household wasn't alone in cheering aloud at his death. 

Celeste said she had left her career, her family and her friends to move to Monterey for Perry.  Madeline said she had known Celeste for what...three years?  Was that it?   I sort of wondered if he'd forced her to give up other friendships when Perry stated that Madeline was "starting to piss me off".    Perry also had a trait that fits with the classic abuser profile:  He would pop up unexpectedly.  He always gave a reason but he'd say he was going on a trip and then simply not go.  Or show up when he wasn't expected.  It's a way of checking on someone's activities, making sure Celeste didn't have much of a life.  

By the way, on a rewatch I thought the end scene was beautifully edited but also noticed something, of all the women, Bonnie is the one who won't have a mark on her.  He landed a blow, several of them, on all of the other women present.  Since Bonnie charged in and delivered the death shove, she wouldn't have so much as a skinned knee.    I think that's why everyone realized they had to lie.  

I also liked that it was the male detective who told Zippo to just let it go.  I fully agree with him and honestly thought Zippo was being ridiculous to continue to watch all of the women. 

Sadly, Gordon was harassing some poor woman from the caterers, which was a detail I didn't notice the first time.  Poor Renata, I ended up being glad that she found some actual friendships because she could use some.  

[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

18 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

This is not what people who are giving Perry the benefit of the doubt are saying. You are the first person to express this.

I'm also not giving him any benefit of the doubt.    Monsters are rare, deeply flawed and damaging people are less so, in my personal experience and in general.   Percentage of the population that are sociopaths are estimated to be between 3-5%.  Here's one link to a source on that but just run a google search for more.  Don't mistake this for any defense of Perry because it isn't, in my case. 

Percentage of the population that are spousal abusers in some form?  Is much higher.  Estimates between 20-27% percent.   Possibly higher.  

[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

59 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Perry is now proven to be a rapist and an abuser. Yet, the writers want us to believe that he is not a monster?

I think what you might not be considering is that if Perry can be seen as something other than a complete monster and a sociopath, it makes what he has done worse, not more forgivable, less forgivable.  It is worse.   Much, much worse.  

A sociopath doesn't understand love or remorse.  A true sociopath isn't wracked with guilt while still continuing to do heinous, unforgivable, savage things.   The fact that Perry can feel how terrible and wrong all that he does is, makes him much, much, much fucking worse than if he was just a monster with no feelings or ability to love.  

The fact that he is capable of love but still knocks someone he loves flying routinely, the fact that he possesses love but beats the living shit out of Celeste and rapes Jane does not excuse him, it makes all that he has done worse because somewhere inside, he's capable of feeling a semblance of the real emotion, even if he pollutes and perverts everything about it.  

It's not about "oh the poor wounded creature, I feel for him!" it's about how truly horrible he is because he knows right from wrong and does wrong anyway.   The fact that he is human and basically, people will change as much as they choose.  It's why blackout drunks can become sober advocates.  Can abusers change?  Probably, but I'm sure of one thing: people who are not actual to-the-bone monsters change as much as they want to and are willing.  People who really want to change make sacrifices to do so.  

If he's covered in scales and a Ted Bundy without any humanity then he isn't even capable of fully grasping wrong.  

Perry is worse because he is simply an incredibly damaging, damaged person who understands the enormity of the horror he inflicts and does it anyway.  

It's not a pardon, it's a condemnation. 

[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

50 minutes ago, AEMom said:

Perry is a big guy, but he was definitely off balance fighting off the women and beating Celeste.  I could easily see very muscular Bonnie unexpectedly slamming into Perry full tilt to be enough to send him down the stairs.

 

 

 

One of the neat things the series did was to emphasize the relative size of the actors' .  There had been a shot of Bonnie picking up Skye that really emphasizes that Zoe Kravitz is practically the size of a shoe.  A petite shoe.   When they showed Perry striding down that carpet, in search of Celeste, he looked like Maleficent about to turn into a dragon. Then the use the emphasis of size started to click for me when Bonnie started following after him, just looking like a speck of a human being that it finally dawned on me that one of them was going to die.  I was so afraid it was going to be Bonnie but she's so little, if she plowed into Perry, she'd essentially hit him directly in his center of gravity.   

I think the reason they had to lie was that at least the way the show was playing it, Celeste would have been given "12 months probation"  (there are points at which you can tell this story was originally set in Australia)  even if she'd been simply defending herself.  Bonnie couldn't even lay claim to that, she ran into the fray and cleaned his clock entirely.   She wasn't in immediate peril, and the way the rest of the story was pretending it would go down (rather than justifiable, involuntary manslaughter with zero criminal charges for Celeste) that we're supposed to believe Bonnie would have been charged with manslaughter.  

I loved the resolution simply because it brought everyone together, Renata was revealed to be decent at the heart of all things and I practically cheered her accidentally saving Celeste's life in the first place by knocking on the window.  I liked that Renata was essentially pining for actual friendship and simply terrible at creating it.  

On another note, I actually hope there isn't another season.   I loved that they were all together at the end and the person who had been excluded throughout literally struck a blow for the sisterhood and was included.  

 

I was not expecting such a poetic ending but I loved it.  I do wish it had simply ended with a shot of the detective in some way indicating that she going to simply drop the matter.    Since the therapist so complete heaved off any kind of professional restraints (she was actually the character I assumed had a background with abuse) I wanted the detective to also simply recognize that there was already justice in the situation.   Bonnie killed Perry to help save everyone else, it was hardly some premeditated nastiness and I doubt Jane was Perry's only victim so it seems like any digging into his background might reveal that the world was better off without Perry anyway.  

[S01.E07: You Get What You Need]

That was awesome.  It took a story with a lot of dramatic stakes and managed to render the ending as a just outcome.  Like a fairytale, it took all the maids of the land to slay the dragon.  

I also like that the way the entire story was structured, it was the person who it would personally be the hardest on who pushed Perry.  The person least able to rationalize it away.  Just someone digging deep for the sisterhood and finding the force necessary.  It was a little schmaltzy, but I'll admit, it made me tear up.  

Poor Bonnie but kudos to Kravitz, who just looked shattered in the interview scenes.  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

1 hour ago, Stella said:

I want to throw in here with you for Bonnie's character and ZK doing an excellent job. Maybe some posters here dislike her but I personally doubt most viewers hate her. Of course there's not way to be truly certain!

 

The only thing that makes Bonnie a little difficult to take is that she can sound a bit Hippie Zen By Numbers but she seems to be pretty kind to me.  Wearing the least attractive dress imaginable for that dinner seemed an attempt to be kind.   

Also, it wouldn't help if Bonnie said, "Thank you" and attempted to move on.  Maddy's issues with Bonnie are more about her resentment towards Nathan than they are anything about Bonnie.   I know people who make their own jewelry and who have traveled a lot.  They'll mention it, it's cool.  People don't need to downplay their achievements, adventures or experiences to be kind.   Plus, if Maddy hasn't traveled much, judging by the fact that she has an ocean front home and can do things like get everyone tickets to Frozen while hiring a limo, chances are good that she simply hasn't chosen to travel much because she appears to have the means.  

I have really like Zoey Kravitz's performance here because it does leave room for finding her a bit much "Helping things to grow and evolve!"  is actually a little much and a little barbed, to be honest.  She's not perfect, but she seems to be a kindhearted human being who also happens to be beautiful.   And she handled Ed being kind of creepy towards her (which we have since learned seems to be more about Ed hardly ever getting any, leading to some pretty inappropriate comments about loving sweat on women) really very well.  Has in no way acted strangely towards him since just moved on.  

I haven't seen Zoey Kravitz's before but I've liked her performance enough here that I'll keep an eye out for her.  Some of Maddy's criticisms of her are so clearly based in jealousy.   "Can't she put on a shirt?"  is ...yeah, that's a strange expectation and not a fair one.  Bonnie was dressed for yoga and just coming out of a yoga class.  Maddy is blaming Bonnie for seeming and looking perfect and whereas we've gotten to see that she's not, I think the crux of the matter is that Maddy feels slighted that Nathan moved on with the woman pretty much everyone would notice as beautiful.   

Having said that, I don't blame Maddy for being stung.  It would hurt to be left and then see someone being happy with another person who it seems like most guys envy him for landing.   Maddy said she tends to her grudges like little pets and she's taking something out on Bonnie that isn't Bonnie's responsibility.  

I think that's partly why they waited to inform Maddy about the project going live because Maddy takes digs at Bonnie simply for existing.  A trip to the homeless shelter seems to have thrilled Abby so much, it may have spawned this damned notion in the first place, that isn't Bonnie's fault but I think she was afraid of how Maddy would react because Maddy has a tendency to lob grenades in Bonnie's direction anyway.   She just looked scared at that dinner, that had white wine and red wine, shucked oysters, offers of beer, etc. etc.   It's kind of a rare person who wouldn't have given up years earlier in trying to be decent towards someone who attempts to stick pins into her as a thank you.  

I can see both of their sides of it.  I think that's actually the mark of a well-told story.  As for the audience reacting poorly to Bonnie, that appears to be part of the point of the character.  We saw her dancing with Renata and then heard the incredibly snide things that were said by people present.   The comments didn't really fit her actions, she wasn't pole dancing.  I think Kravitz has managed to give Bonnie enough of a presence that it is believable that she just sort of fields that stuff and isn't reactive.  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

8 hours ago, violetr said:

As for Bonnie, I imagine she would have a shit ton of anxiety just from dealing with Nathan and Maddie. I kind of think Bonnie is a phony, though. What kind of peace, love and understanding gal marries a guy like Nathan?

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if Bonnie's age is similar to Zoe Kravitz's , I'm guessing one that is 21-22 when they were involved enough to be creating Skye, feels that her role in life is to lead others to enlightenment and hadn't yet learned that you can't fix broken dudes?  So, like, nearly every 21 to 22-year-old hippie I've personally known and not an insubstantial number of women who fall into other categories.  Candidly, my son's father -- who I met at the ripe old age of 20 -- was (and in fairness to him) is  a good guy, but like a blueprint of a guy I could never have a future with and I didn't spot it.  My son's stepdad, on the other hand, pretty much perfect match for me.  

Bonnie would wear thin very easily on me but they emphasized her youth in the funniest way here: They had that shot of her picking up Skye -- and all they need have done was have her wrap her arms around her comfortingly -- and Skye's damned near bigger than Bonnie is.  I thought wardrobe kind of emphasized that with that giant sack of a dress she was wearing and it made me like her a bit more for that damned, unappealing dress too after Maddy's "can't she just put on a shirt?" after yoga.   

Bonnie is irksome but there's some evidence to suggest she's actually trying.  Shucked oysters at dinner?  Yeah, she's trying.   It doesn't make her likable but it does lean towards making her well-intentioned.  

Also if they met 8 years ago (again, going with Skye's age and assuming that Nathan didn't knock her up on the third date because I think Maddy would be mentioning that, kind of a lot) Nathan would have been in his early thirties.  Had some kind of business that presumably made Maddy think he was a decent pick in the first place when she was also quite young -- so about Bonnie's age when she met Nathan -- and he's pretty far from repulsive.  

I like Maddy, I like Bonnie too and I weirdly just feel for both of them.   It's a crappy situation for both of them and I think they are both trying.  Bonnie will always start out on the wrong foot because she's a gorgeous yoga instructor who speaks in really annoying enlightenment blurbs but she appears to have a pretty good heart.  Or at least not a bad one.  

Also, when it comes to Adam Scott and Reese Witherspoon, I think that it fits that they don't make a pair (in contrast to maybe Celeste and Perry) who you'd think, "Wow, I bet that was a grand romance!"  I think the fact that he's a slightly odd fit for her supports his, "I married my dream girl"  thing.  He likely did.  They both know it. 

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

1 hour ago, violetr said:

I don't think "healthy" is quite the right word but marijuana is definitely not "unhealthy."

Honestly, I lived in Colorado for 26 years and now live in SoCal, so I've been surrounded by stoners and they will tout it as being healthy.  It's alleged (heavy emphasis on alleged) to prevent certain types of cancer, such as testicular cancer.   Any validity to that?  No clue! But if I had a joint for every time someone told me that?  Well, I'd have a shit-ton of joints.  Plus, they believe it treats anxiety, depression, regulates blood sugar.  

I really wasn't haphazardly using the word, I promise :-)  Again, heavy emphasis on "alleged" and sprinkle in a few  "purported to be" from my standpoint.  Also, my favorite one that I kept hearing in Colorado was that Jesus was a toker (which ...I took comparative religions and don't remember that, but it's kind of a sweet thought).    

But yup, lots of hippies think pot is healthy whereas others think it is harmless and still others believe it essential.  I feel like I should throw in the obligatory: clearly, not all hippies smoke pot because truly, not all hippies do.  

As this pertains to Bonnie, though, I got a laugh out of combining that with the "Bonnie does a lot of gardening" thing that this episode added in.  Every morning, I walk my dogs and I know the three houses we pass by that have the wake-n-bakers.  Every now and then I'll bump into one of them as he gardens and that dude is 72 if he's a day.  He seems very happy to me.  

4 hours ago, LucyHoneychrrch said:

I think I was mainly so irritated when they discovered Abigail's secret project, and Bonnie had next to nothing to say about it.  I get the sense she tries very hard to distance herself from the drama between these families, without acknowledging her own role simply by being Nathan's wife.  And I get weary of her condescending tone when she speaks to Nathan -- who by all accounts is kind of an idiot, but at least he's trying. 

 

 

We don't have any confirmation about this, but I got the sense that Abigail was really setting it up to spectacularly pull the rug out from underneath everyone -- which doesn't actually preclude a true interest in social justice or an honest desire to do exactly what she planned on doing for the sake of activism -- because an added side bonus of her project was going to be the huge meltdown she was sure her parents would have.  She pretty much knew they would because she was keeping it secret for a reason.   It sounded like neither Nathan or Bonnie knew even at the play when they expressed interest about the big unveiling.  

Then I think what happened was Abigail confided in Bonnie because she does relate to her more as a peer than a parent, she even told Maddy pretty much that -- that Bonnie was like a friend (in that piano interuptus moment) but Maddy would always be her mom -- and Bonnie proved that she was prepared to be both friend and authoritarian by telling Nathan in really short order.   

I think she was mainly silent because she didn't actually feel great about having to draw that line in the sand.   I think she was a little torn about betraying Abigail's trust, but it came into conflict with her responsibility to Abby as a parental figure.  

I agree, though, even as someone who actually really likes hippies in all their various forms, Bonnie can be a bit too bumper-sticker-speak to be tolerable for long.  "We never see things as they are, we see them as we are".  Yup.  That doesn't exactly sound like a person I'd happily hang with because she's too interested in being instructive vs. just...doing her thing and let others do theirs.  

I think she's just still a little inexperienced as a parent and that moment actually taught her exactly that.   

Also, anyone who doesn't react to a full grown person, who knows they are having a vomiting fit and doesn't attempt to aim it towards anything other than the floor, a toilet, a bucket, the ground particularly after puking on the actual table?  Is likely mute and even then?  Emphatic hand gestures to follow.   What adult starts puking everywhere and doesn't try to get away from people, objects, etc. toward a bathroom?  

I get Maddy was in shock, but that "god damnit!" made me actually like Bonnie for being human under the bumper stickers of Tao of Pooh approach to all else. 

14 minutes ago, violetr said:

Good point - they could have shown her vaping!

Actual studies have supported that inhaling pot smoke doesn't have the same toxic impact as cigarette smoke on your lungs.   Also, vaping is not considered healthy.   Time article on pot smoking that was recently published.  

I don't really take a position on it one way or another -- except that I sort of clearly do and think it is relatively harmless as vices go -- but it actually seemed a supportive character note for Bonnie vs. a contradictory one and it made me chuckle :) 

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

Speaking of internet searches, I was urging Celeste to clear her fucking history.  It wouldn't be unusual for her to have some of her own funds (at least in a normal relationship) or to have a credit card that is in her name only.  Frankly, they've got so much money (or appear to) that I kind of assume that they have an accountant vs. poring over details themselves but it looked to me like Celeste just closed her laptop and walked away from it.  Then Perry didn't appear to take her "out to dinner with Jane" very well so I was afraid he was going to go snoop. 

I think that the most dangerous time in abusive relationships is when the woman tries to leave, right?  So that was part of why I was yelling at her to clear her fucking history or at least use incognito.  

I also thought that barista was showing an interest in Jane that wasn't strictly friendly, but then remembered that Maddy had said he's gay as our introduction to him. 

Heh.  Maybe the Monterey tourism board suggested that, "Uh...so...if you're going to say the name of our town eleventy billion times, maybe you could include at least one character who isn't a complete butt munch?  That would be swell."   

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

5 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Really?? I totally missed that. Interesting. Well, if that's true, he still provides a safe space

Yes, the very first time we see him, Celeste or Jane mentions that he's cute or nice, or appealing (very general "oh he seems sort of stealth hot" type of stuff) and Madeline says "He's gay, all the best ones are" and so I think it was to give Jane a friendship within the town that was without any kind of agenda.  As you say, a safe space character for Jane.  I like that phrasing :-)  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

6 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

 There's a literary term for this that I don't know.  

Tertiary, maybe?  That's possible.   I guess I've just kind of got him down as representing the town as it is not attached to the school.  On that one, I'm really uncertain.  I just feel like our attention has been called to him a few times.   I think (? again not even close to certain) that having Maddy tell us he's gay (so that we will know he's gay when it serves no other purpose in the story) was about making his overtures towards Jane to be about friendship without agenda?  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

5 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

The cutie barista is totally into Jane too, which I love.

Madeline said he was gay, not that that makes him gay, just that Madeline believes him to be.   That's part of the reason I can't figure him out.  If that's true, then he doesn't have a crush on Jane but here, he behaved like he had a crush on Jane.  Or maybe it was supposed to be very genuine concern and warmth if romantic inclinations are out of the equation? 

Sincerely, can't figure out his purpose in the story. 

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

The character I can't figure out for love nor money is the barista at the coffee place they all go to.  The guy pops up kind of a lot, chimes in when it seems an odd thing to have him doing and I can't figure out what purpose he could be serving.  To show that they are all the type of people, despite privilege, to get to know people they see on a regular basis, regardless of status?  Is that it?  Is it supposed to be a character note for Madeline?  

Genuinely asking here because I've noticed him before and he unexpectedly chimed in on Jane's residency status there and offered to help get her name out for bookkeeping too.   Is he supposed to be representing some kind of warm and welcoming, west coast acceptance, or something? 

He hasn't shown up in the police interviews, has he? 

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

2 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Interesting. I was thinking of the ocean as a metaphor for power. So sometimes it's associated with violence (like at Celeste/Perry's house), but other times it represents freedom (like when Jane goes running). The homes of Renata, Madeline, and Perry are right in the water as those characters all, in one way or another, seek power. Bonnie's home doesn't appear to be; she's not looking for power.

 

 

Wow.  I really like that take on it.  Thanks for that.  I'd been viewing it sort of as another character, a witness within the narrative but I like your take better.  I'd noted that Nathan and Bonnie aren't on the water and the status having an ocean front home conveys but in this story, status is about power and I hadn't thought of it like that before.  Cool insight.    

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

7 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

I don't know what this sentence means. Maybe there is a word or two missing. And I don't know what Big Little Lies has to do with your father.

 

 

 

 

The word "me" was missing, I did catch it.  I'm sorry for the confusion.   As many people here have mentioned their own parents and how they likely would have reacted to their child doing something like trying to sell their freaking virginity, that's what he has to do with the way I assess the situation from my own standpoint.   My father was an academic and a history professor specializing in 16th century Tudor influence in Ireland and I'm still pretty damned sure he'd have beaten the crap out of me because selling one's virginity online is simply that bad and frightening to parents.  

So, if the scene existed to make me think Nathan was a possible suspect, for my purposes they would have needed to dial that way up from "people yell while a laptop is held aloft".  I was amazed he didn't smash the hell out of it.   I don't really like Nathan particularly, although I guess I don't dislike him, but running into the room to take her laptop away seemed ...reasonable to me. 

It also didn't  work as setting him up as a possible victim for the same reasons.  He had a reasonable response. 

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

16 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

We've seen almost nothing of Nathan and Bonnie's home life, so we have little idea of how they act or what Skye has seen. It's just as likely that she's screaming because she's experienced this type of scene with her parents before and knows what comes next, as it is that she's screaming because it's unfamiliar.

 

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this, as the strength of Skye's reaction is actually what indicates to me that she's never seen anything like that before.   Anything is possible when we speculate about things we have not seen but judging by what we have "Skye would never sanction a non-consensual touch, she's a very peaceful child" and all that stuff about "solving the parenting paradigm that is Abigail"  (okay, maybe Bonnie is pretty freaking annoying, come to think of it) it seems less likely that this is some well-trodden ground for her.   Plus, we did see them bicker, in a way and aside from some spiritual condescension ("helping things to grow and evolve" ...yeah, Bonnie isn't bearing up to much "isn't annoying scrutiny, after all)  and dietary judgment, it really seems like Bonnie is the person who holds most of the power in that relationship.  Not in an unhealthy way, but Nathan even tells Ed he's basically doing what he's asked because that's what you do when you're trying to stay married (not even close to a quote but the upshot).  

Also, if it was trying to make me think that Nathan was capable of murder it failed spectacularly as my father would have beaten  me until I needed medical attention if I'd pulled that stunt and I'm pretty sure I'm not even close to exaggerating.  

Honestly? I thought Nathan took that about as well as anyone could...who was not high at the time, I guess.  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

27 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Being a peacnik earth momma or a poseur hardly exempts one from fighting.

Clearly, but the way Bonnie is being presented to us, I don't think she's prone to screaming or that Nathan typically whirls around, holding objects in the air while two people she loves swirl around below him screaming.  As I said, she's likely never seen that kind of fight up close, on anything other than TV.   I thought that the scene existed more to show why Abigail might have done this whole project more than anything: she actually wants more parental attention, even if she doesn't understand that's what she wants, selling her viriginity being the biggest attention grab of pretty much all time.  It even penetrated Bonnie's Indica haze (for the record, a lot of hippies think pot is actually healthy) for a few minutes.  Then Skye appeared and the focus shifted to the younger child.  It's kind of a normal household dynamic but played to extremes.  

We've actually seen it before with Madeline and Abigail bonding about how Abby will always be her baby, then Chloe comes running out and Maddy's attention shifts to her.  

I could be wrong but that seems to be the theme of Abby's story.  Even when she starts coming down the stairs just in time to see her mother and Ed canoodling and she withdraws from the scene.  I think Abby spends most of her time feeling like the unnecessary part in the relationship machines around her.  

That was actually the moment I felt sorriest for Abby.  She's orchestrated this thing practically engineered to cause her parents to lose their damned minds while uniting around her as the center of attention (not differentiating between negative and positive attention...kind of like her project) and it lasts for all of two minutes.  

Teenagers are dramatic as hell.  Not all, but some and maybe even into "most" but plenty.  She set the stage for this giant drama and barely got any payout from it.  Her father is quickly ashamed of having a big reaction and her mother takes the opportunity to ...tell her sixteen-year-old daughter she had an affair.   No way for that to go wrong with an attention seeking teen in the middle of the action.  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

3 hours ago, stagmania said:

I've been thinking about this some more. I wonder if there's some sexual abuse in Bonnie's past, and that's why she seems more zen about Abigail's project than the other adults. Not because she agrees with the way Abigail is doing things, but because she feels strongly about the cause and touched that Abigail cares about it. I feel like there's some mystery around Bonnie still to be revealed.

9 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

 

I think that the story is trying to convey that Bonnie doesn't take any kind of patriarchal attitude towards Abigail's sexuality but that she's taking it way too fucking far.  In fairness, she and Nathan were both saying that no way was the website going to go live at any point.  Bonnie just was all set to commend the spirit and whereas, yes, I really am one with the freaking concept that a woman's body is her own and if she decides to sell it as a grown ass woman, then that is a choice open to her.  

But holy shit, a sixteen-year-old is NOT capable of understanding the emotional ramifications to herself in the long run.  That was Madeline's best parenting moment, I thought, telling Abigail that she (Maddy) was not about to launch into some "your precious body is a temple and a gift" stuff but rather that she would regret doing this.  I thought the implication was that even if she didn't in anyway go through with the mechanics of it, carving her name in the digital stone of the internet with "tried to sell my virginity like a commodity" would not be something she'd be as fucking happy about at 30 when she understands that there is a lot of ground between treating a woman's vagina like it's a Star Trek Frontier where only one man should bravely go and sticking a clearance tag on your hoohoo for all the world to see.  

I don't mind Bonnie much, even if she's a bit of a cliche (wild understatement) but the "Oh hell no!" her attempt at the dinner table elicited from me was likely heard by people outside the house.  

Serious props to the story for pulling that whole thing off, I am not usually particularly interested in ye olde coming of age stories and was, therefore, kind of ignoring Abby's sulking and attempts at beyond-her-years-wisdom that just kept showing how young she actually is.  I wasn't actually interested in her special project, so man, did that ever fucking blindside me.  

When my son was sixteen he proudly showed me the condom he was carrying in his wallet saying, "I know you'll be proud of me for this" and he was not wrong.  Being safe, being protected, those are all very important things that I made a serious effort to instill him, including that being prepared to keep your partner protected too was one of the marks of being mature.   

That's part of what made me nearly fall the fuck over, holy shit, that's not evidence of being an empowered young woman, owning her choices, that's evidence of having no idea, whatsofuckingever what sex is and should be in a life.  Man alive.  

I may have had a strong reaction to that [/understatement]

Also, I get why Skye shrieked at the top of her lungs.  She grew up with peacenik earth momma and poseur papa, she's likely never seen a fight like that in real life.  But I also admit my reaction was mostly, "Kid, you have to toughen up before middle school, seriously" than anything else.  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

14 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought it was more odd for a health nut to be smoking

Was it a cigarette or a joint?  I assumed Bonnie was smoking some herb to kind of bolster her courage for having the delightful task of telling Nathan that Abigail was tagging her special parts for sale on Ebay (or wherever) but if it was a cigarette, I think the nature of the conversation she knew she was about to embark upon might have been the reason for that.  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

34 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

i think Abby said "You still have Ed."  I rewound it a few times.

Closed-Captioning had it as "Do you still love Ed?"  

[S01.E06: Burning Love]

15 minutes ago, heavysnaxx said:

Also: I was waiting for SOMEONE to point out to Abigail that her brilliant plan to combat sex trafficking isn't just silent on the matter of coercion - be it physical, emotional, and/or economic - but that it also suggests that her voluntary decision to f#&k somebody is somehow comparable to what trafficked people endure. And if her argument is that she's "doing it for the money," that's...sayin' the whole thing kinda works GREAT as a money-maker. Critical Thinking = FAIL.

 

 

 

I'm fairly certain that isn't her point.  The point would be that people will lose their minds and Ted Koppel will report on it for weeks because she is a privileged white girl from the Northern California but we're all aware that children as young as seven are sold as sex slaves in many places, including India and the national outcry is muted, at best.   She's trying to use her privilege to stir outrage and make money.  She's trying to use sex-trafficking her own-personal-self to make a point. 

In the most completely batshit, holy-fuckballs-child no way, no how, think again, I will put you in soft-restraints if I have to, kind of way.  

Jesus, did not see that little online project as the end result of all of Abigail's charmless pouting and inability to comb her hair.   

I'm glad it has nothing to do with Ed and let me state for the record?  I'm pretty hippie-dippy myself, so Bonnie's status as a yoga doing, hemp wearing, peace talking search-for-your-higher-self is NOT what is giving her peace with the entire concept.  I was so glad when Madeline directly vomited on her, I was livid (in some kind of enlightened way, I'm sure).  Merciful Zeus, just how is she supposed to guarantee her safety?  With piloxing moves?  

Perry's broken penis similarly gladdened my heart and I'm to the point of hoping that EVERYONE kills him.  

[Becoming Warren Buffett]

I loved this documentary and found it really heartening in today's climate to see an incredibly wealthy man who feels an obligation to help others with his wealth.  Plus, the moment in front of congress was just glorious.  Truly, this is not even attempting to be a hard-hitting documentary but there's no reason it should be.  Buffet is ethical, good at his job, and he dearly loved his first wife, Susie.  We weren't expecting to sit there crying over the beauty of a deep and abiding love when we tuned in, but my husband I both boo hoo'd up a storm when the film covered Susie's death.  It is rare to see a powerful man, in America, so willing to admit that the great love of his life was one of two important, all-defining events in his life:  being born and meeting Susie.  

Plus, his children are all delightful human beings who also approach great wealth with humility and decency.  I do agree with the homepage piece, you won't get a sense for how Buffet achieved such tremendous success but in turbulent times being exposed to a billionaire with to-the-bone decency was a tonic.  I'm sorely tempted to watch it again, just so I can feel better about humanity.   There are no villains in this but really unassuming people willing to behave with such decency it becomes interchangeable with heroism.