Genki
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Posts posted by Genki
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Everyone has mostly said what I think/*sniff*feel*sniff*, but just some additional thoughts:
This is the first time that I felt and urgency about Sara's death and the need to solve it, it has been lacking so far this season
When Sara died it impacted me because I was upset/angry more for what this meant to the story, and to the show, than for seeing Sara die (even though I like her a lot). Whereas Oliver's "death" impacted me more emotionally for Oliver and the other characters, so well done show. Even though I know it's not permanent, (and we may have BC reasons that it occurs) it hurt and made me sad, and was beautifully shot, acted and edited, the gifs of it make my allergies act up.
I love the 1-sided telephone conversation between Caitlin and Felicity "Are you alright?" "No I'm fine...". I haven't watched the Flash yet so I'm not sure what happened, but I love the thought of these ladies become confidants for each other.
Even though Felicity touched Oliver in the x-over (slight elbow nudge during the farewell/lecture at Star Labs), I love the reaction, by Oliver, to her touch and that she rubbed his back during the whole exchange.
I can't say how much I resented Ray scenes when there is a clock on Oliver getting his affairs in order, I don't want to spend time with Palmer at all.
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I feel that the whole who killed Sara plot is not fully resolved. Crack theories ahead:
Ra's asked/forced Malcolm to have Sara killed
Maybe Ra's and Merlin had a deal going and Sara was the cost.
Ra's released Malcolm from the league, he may be pissed that Malcolm broke some code, but there has to be a reason why Malcolm was the only person to leave the league (pre Heir to the Demon). What is their relationship?
I think Malcolm offered Oliver to Ra's as a protege or something in return for a pardon (or Zombie Tommy which Ra's has been holding over Malcolm).
Some sort of scenario like this makes sense of all the little niggles I have with what have been shown so far.
- The change in Ra's about Sara since 3.04 to 3.09
- Sara's greeting to her killer, it still feels off, even though it is revealed that it is Malcolm and Thea there.
- I thought Malcolm saw Oliver like a pseudo son, why would he goad him into killing Ra's (which I maintain he knew Oliver wouldn't win)
- Why set Thea up to be a killer?
- Why does Malcolm even want Sara dead? It would have been different if he caught her tracking him and killed her on the spur of the moment, but this seems really elaborate for no reason. Setting up Thea, pissing off Nyssa, surely he could have slipped her surveillance and gone back to Corto Maltese, why did he come back to Starling anyway? 1 day before Sara, why did she think he would be there...
Also since there seems to be a deleted scene with Malcolm on the Mountain in 3.09, but that could just be Malcolm going to the neutral site to see the results of his bizarre machinations.
Also I think Felicity, "borrowed" Argus' satellite again and that is why she knows where Oliver is, but I don't like this theory because then she would have watched him die.
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He's a guy who values her brains and what she can do with them in terms of tech (unlike Oliver),
That's not fair to Oliver, he's really values Felicity's brain and abilities, what he doesn't prioritise is her corporate career goals. Rightly or wrongly it is secondary to the mission.
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The reason I might be cool about the Lazarus pits coming into play is Oliver's lifestyle cannot be sustained with the amount of punishment his body takes. In 3.05 he got hit by a car and walked away like it was nothing. So healing him (especially that knee) of some of the punishment his body has been taking the last 8 years, makes sense to me.
Also if they need a reason for Oliver to stay away for 3 freaking episodes, the pits are a good way of doing that. Either he is a little cray cray and can't make it back just yet (and all the emphasis on Felicity harnessing his light and being the 1st person he saw as a person can come into play), or Zombie Tommy, is there and really insane and Oliver wants to save him Steve Roger/Bucky Barnes style.
I know I would like Sara back to stop the awfulness that is Laurel's umpteenth island, but in terms of character connections and driving the story forward Zombie Tommy makes the most sense.
I know I was not looking forward to the insta-canary opus and the Atom whatever origin, but I now have to watch to see what happens in 3.10...damn you show!!
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My hopelessly optimistic wish, the line "I didn't know what I was fighting for, now I do" is Oliver telling Felicity that he is going to be fighting for them
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Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I don't think there'll be a "but". I mean there totally could be, but why would Felicity even give him the time of day if he only gets his act together when she's with Ray? Like no Oliver you had your chance bye.
ETA: misread you comment, ignore the previous, lol!
I hope there is no "but" too.
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There's no way Felicity can win. If she gets together with Palmer before Oliver leaves it's horrible that he goes off to death without any hope. If she gets together after Oliver goes - even if she thinks he is dead- then she has no faith or loyalty or weak for seeking comfort or stupid for jumping into a rebound. If she hooks up with Palmer after Oliver returns then it's like a slap in the face to all that Oliver suffered to get back to her. I'm exaggerating and over simplifying but oh, it's going to get ugly.
That's probably true, but I think a lot of resistance will be because it's Ray. I think if it were Barry (obviously can't be) I could maybe buy it.
So not looking forward to post hiatus, only thing of interest for me, Felicity/Thea.
Read through to MG interviews, really think they are going with an Oliver is dead situation.
Also, the more the interviews talked about comic book elements, the less excited I get about anything pre 3.14.
Ray coming to the fore, I've had enough Ray already.
Brick don't care don't care about Vinnie Jones they have tight budget, why splash out on "names"?
Laurel...the less the better.
Team Arrow anchored by Roy? I started watching Teen Wolf, Colton is a better actor there but like KC I think he has a limited range, and I don't care that much about Roy.
No Oliver is a BIG issue for me, and I'm really wary of what is going on with Felicity, I think it will play on the worst cliches.
ETA: just saw the Felicity/Ray scene ugh stop with the Mansplaining Ray!
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I find it hilarious that my sister-in-law -- a person who doesn't get into TV very often and is the type of person who always tells me "It's just a show" when I get a wee bit too excited about something -- just talked about Laurel and how much of a failure her character is for about 20 minutes on the phone :p I wonder if this is how a lot of the casual viewers feel because the more people I talk to who watch Arrow and aren't present on boards like these/tumblr/facebook the more I learn that Laurel isn't a loved character even outside the internet.
For example, I had dinner with a friend a couple of days ago and we started talking about the shows we've been watching, I brought up Arrow and she got excited about it and asked me if I was up to date and then proceeded to tell me how she hated how Sara was the one to die and how she wanted it to be Laurel instead. It's just funny to me. I was laughing so much :p
I don't think any of my Arrow watching friends are Laurel fans, I'm fairly sure most are less active than me and I'm a bit of a lurker.
Even ones that I may have made watch only 1 - 3 episodes did not connect with her character or KC.
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If anyone wants to read a ridiculously intense/ suspenseful/ possibly heartbreaking fic, you have got to read this. I swear, this author is slowly becoming my favorite with every passing fic.
It's a really good fic, but I don't think I will be able to cope if it is a sad ending.
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I really enjoyed the big brother little brother vibe that Oliver & Barry had going on, the actors have great chemistry. But it sort of highlights to me that there is something lacking the the Arrow/Arsenal relationship. [Note: I enjoyed Roy this week ]
I don't have t comic background so I'm wondering if it is mean to be this way, and I'm missing something, or has the fast-track to Arsenal hurt the mentor/mentee dynamic they need for a super hero and their sidekick?
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If it is anything like my experience I think it will be hard to get the majority of anti-LL fans on Laurel's side.
When I decided to give arrow a second shot it was after I felt the direction was set to not have LL be the LI. approx after 2.12 had aired, and I liked what I saw of KC in Melrose Place and Supernatural even GG. Through binge watching I mostly didn't mind Laurel and wanted her to get her character groove on.
As a viewer I kept looking for moments where I could connect with Laurel as a character, and KC as an actor. There were only 2-3in S2, her delivery about Olives and Coffee in 2.12 was one, and Lance & Laurel scene pre-dinner party form hell in her apartment. Bitchy Laurel, when it is deliberate story direction work best for me.
But there are a numbers factors which has turned me against and redemption for LL as a character.
Firstly the writing, they are not writing to KC's strengths as an actress, which makes her performance as LL inauthentic, for me. The character in show does not match the tell in the Story/Dialogue so there is the disconnect between what they say about Laurel and what I see as a fan.
Before we got 3.01 it could have worked for in me in the following scenario -They could have gone ahead with a different "Hero's Journey" like manhunter, why kill off Sara so blatantly and waste Kate Spenser and the Manhunter mythos, this could have kick started the road to a competent vigilante identity without having the weight and expectation of the BC persona hanging so heavily over the character. This of course would have required Sara to live and be a reoccurring character, with teases about Laurel being BC. Potential adoption of BC in the last season.
I can't get passed the plot contrivances (character deaths or OCC moments) to get Laurel to be BC and in the main storyline.
With Felicity in the LI role there isn't any reason for Oliver and ex-girlfriend Laurel to be in each others lives meaningfully, their only connection, Tommy is gone. Sara could have been a legit connection, but we all know what happened there, so any interaction seems forced and I actually resent seeing Laurel in any scene with Team Arrow. I don't want her integrated into the main storyline, because it does not happen organically. 2.21 was a prime example of this.
I think the fact the the writers seems so intent on forcing the BC storyline makes me push back harder as a fan. Everything this season with Laurel breaks the 4th wall for me. I only see plot purposes or EP intentions behind all her scenes. Therefore I would prefer if she was downgraded to reoccurring if they insist on going ahead with the BC origin story.
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Only 1 complaint about the episode...When Caitlin ask how often Oliver uses the salmon ladder, and Felicity's reply was "every Wednesday"...I'm like "why I haven't seen it for the past 9 Wednesdays!!"
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One of the things that has disappointed me this season is that Oliver hasn't really opened up much about his missing five years. I had high hopes early on when he told Felicity that he wasn't always on Lian Yu and when he told Thea about their father making it to the life raft before committing suicide, but things have pretty much stalled since then. I won't expand on this much since this part probably belongs in the Hopes & Fears thread, but I really hope that Oliver begins to reveal more details to Dig, Felicity, and Thea regarding his time away.
I know what you mean...Oliver basically teased it again in Flash 1.08
"I’ve been living this life for almost 8 years. Encountering things you cannot even fathom. And I’m still here. Not because super speed kept me out of the ground. It was because I realized I needed to keep learning, keep training, keep getting smarter. And until you get that, despite your best intentions, you’ll do more harm than good."
Show more of this please! (Hong Kong flash back totally needs some training scenes, maybe Katana with a sword, Maseo teaching him to be a better spy.)
Also probably explains his gotta be the Arrow attitude, needed it to survive, but now he needs to get smarter about being a real boy, so he can live.
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Also, the wording that Felicity/Wells scene will be 'tense' - is it a past tense or a future tense tense? ;)
Well played!
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Felicity's obviously someone who trusts her instincts and goes with her gut. Her gut told her to trust and help Oliver, and her gut's telling her to trust and help Ray. Maybe she's wrong about this one, but maybe she's not. Truth is, I'm feeling oddly protective of Felicity right now, because it seems to me like her character is being called into question because she happens to like and admire a guy that the audience doesn't.
I'm sure it is happening around the internet, but for me rather than calling to questions Felicity's character, I'm calling into questions the writing for her character. For me, is slightly OOC and OTT in 1 episode.
Regarding Felicity trusting Oliver, he was honest in his dishonesty, with Felicity and she took a leap and it paid off, and well dimples...who can resist Oliver's dimples.
I think it will be a MMV situation and it hinge on perception of Ray, but ultimately, I'm sure we will all enjoy Felicity in this weeks episodes.
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New fic that has me very intrigued (similar to Sins), but just started and another S1 rewrite which can become tedious. However it is off to a promising start.
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I also think while Felicity is not built to assume the worst of people, she's not foolish. We don't see her be taken in by criminal sob stories, we don't see her be taken in by anything except the betrayal of an ex from college that she hadn't been in contact with for five years. That said, Felicity hasn't let anyone but Team Arrow people actually get close to her since the college ex. (aka the non existent love life she was sure her mother disapproved of combined with the fact we've never met a single friend of hers) I guess that's why I'm willing to trust that if Felicity gives Palmer an I believe in you, he has done something worthy of her believing in him EVEN though we the viewers didn't get to see it happening.
But for me that is part of the disconnect. Since Felicity was guarded for so long, Felicity suddenly giving Ray more props than I feel he has earn't on screen seems either forced for plot reasons, or slightly OCC. We're not seeing inside Felicity's head enough and it is frustrating.
It's not unreasonable that she has a suspicion of Ray since she and Team Arrow have encountered many others, like Blood was presented in a similar manner, good-doer, helping city turned out to be bad. The speech at dinner for Ray was (for me) OTT. I think (hope) she was projecting and realised something, like maybe that she wants to be helping Oliver instead of at dinner, since next thing you know she is back in the lair, but I can't say for sure what was the real motivation/intention of the scene.
It sometimes feels like the EPs are banking on Comic name recognition and Felicity's likability to prop up Ray, which leads to some resistance for me as a viewer.
As much as Oliver is a martyr, Felicity is also running and hiding from Oliver. (The speech to Carrie may have resonated with her, but she couldn't automatically assume it was a truth directed at her) It's not wrong and it is understandable, she sees him every night and she needs to balance her dreams with the reality of Oliver's decision. But I think she could have fought Oliver more on the decision, but I also think it is in character for her to not too, abandonment issues and all. I see both Oliver and Felicity's side and I can tell the current situation is hurting them both. I hurt for them both.
I'm looking forward to the x-over because I like the friendship Felicity is building with Starlabs and desperately I want to see Felicity interact with (non Team Arrow) friends, Lyla or Thea (God can we please have a scene with these 2!) or Lance seem like good option for Arrow. Having said that, I'm not opposed to Team Arrow hangout scenes, I advocate for it. There is so much I want to see in relation to Felicity, that I'm disappointed that Ray's plot is sucking up other potential interactions.
I think I would have preferred if Ray was not introduced as LI (or Oliver SWM) and was just an easter egg, that maybe became reoccurring. I would like a friendship-work aspect of Felicity/Ray explored more than anything to do with Ray's origin story.
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Slade as a present day bad guy should never even have been introduced last season. I said that at the time, and I stick to it. He was being set up as a long term nemesis for Oliver, and they already had one climactic battle in store, via the flashbacks. Doubling up on that really just lessened the impact. And chucking Slade into the Starling City mix made both Blood and Isabel little more than sidekicks.
It all just felt like the show was, as usual, rushing headlong through storylines that had so much more mileage in them than they were allowed. They keep doing that, and it keeps fucking ruining things. I said at the time that I'd have kept Slade as an off-screen malevolence in the present day scenes in season 2. Elevate Blood and Isabel, give them the mirakuru storyline, draw parallels between Oliver fighting and 'killing' Slade in the past, and fighting a more potent Blood in the present. Then, right at the end of the season, show the audience that Slade is still alive. End the season with him giving the speech about putting out Oliver's eye.
This season? Seems like they're out of ideas. Love triangles, new 'awesome' characters chucked into the mix, Sara needlessly killed off to prop up Laurel and start some mystery that no one cares about. But who cares anyway, this show will either continue for years as a shadow of what it could be, or it will fall apart within eighteen months.
Since they did rush the Slade thing, I would like to see him as a reluctant ally or even in the suicide squad.
Last season you could feel his presence/machinations throughout, this season no baddie has really lived up to Slade.
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Elements I loved that I'm missing from this season's Arrow.
- Team Arrow
- Oliver/Sally
- Oliver Suits [especially half done with vest/suspenders/tuxes at the end of the night]
- Oliver Topless
- Work outs and Training [Ray Palmer does not cut it]
- Thea
- Moira
- Oliver interacting with the world in a non Arrow sense
- Queen Consolidated
- Felicity's "not that short" skirts (seriously there are some weird length dresses and skirts on her this season)
- Olicity
- Olicity shoulder touches, face cupping, hugs!!
- Detective Lance (guys deserves more than Laurel's Storyline)
- Lance and Sara
- Slade Wilson
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On the same note, does Barry have super strength? I know he can punch really hard or push heavy objects out of the way after he's gained enough momentum, horizontally, but doing the salmon ladder entails a lot of upper body strength, which I didn't think Barry had. Is he vibrating his arm/core muscles so much that he is able to propel himself vertically? Clearly, I have gone off the deep end if my mind is wandering as to the physics of super human abilities.
I think it is the momentum which Barry can build up, through his super speed.
That effect looked super cheesy....Barry the point of the Salmon ladder is to do it at normal speed, topless (sweaty is optional), in front of Felicity. I hope it comes across and a slight mocking of Oliver, I love when he is affectionately teased, about shit he take seriously.
Between Ray Palmer and Barry I'm really missing Oliver/Sally. (Is Sally a parallel for Felicity????)
I had the same thought, @SleepDeprived. It doesn't make sense that Barry could do the salmon ladder like that. What's the point of having Iris point out how much bigger Oliver's arms are (implying how much more physical strength Oliver has) if they're just going to now diminish/belittle that by having Barry do something so key to Oliver's physical regimen like it's nothing at all? The team over on The Flash has mentioned Barry doesn't have super strength only super speed so it's a bit ridiculous and unnecessary.
Since the 2-parter ends in Arrow I think they will show that Oliver is going to win in Arrow vs Flash. You don't need super speed or a super suit to make you a super hero.
Oliver needs a win of some sort, this season is way too down on him for my taste.
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I think that smile is before the arrows are shot. he seems kind of annoyed when he removed them... Lol.
Oliver loves training an was excited to try something different with Barry, but it backfired and now he know he will be in trouble with Felicity...
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They will do it if the wording of the spoiler is anything to go by.
[snip] “Obviously the Lance family has a lot of issues going on within it that only Laurel knows about. The advantage of bringing Alex Kingston back in this moment in time is to quite frankly turn the knife in Laurel’s gut. We’ve been torturing her with the burdens of keeping this secret” from the spoiler is anything to go by and it will be another disconnect between the Audience and the EPs
Its just going to lead to one more disconnect between me and and the EPs, since Laurel did this to herself, and there should be consequences.
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Haha! I thought that this was funny. Kind of a backhanded compliment:
The reason MG gets backhanded compliments like this is because he deserves to.
I want to see this on screen (X)
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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow
in Arrow
That was spot on.