slayer2
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Posts posted by slayer2
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4 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:
They actually write Bobbie to not only forgive it now, but friggin' laugh about it. "Haha, oh honey, remember when you can to town and slept with my husband? Good times, good times!"
That's horrific because not only did she purposely sleep with Tony (not to absolve him) she also drugged AJ so she could try to pass Michael off as Tony's kid. That was the catalyst for all the nonsense we see today. Not at all funny.
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2 minutes ago, ffwbe said:
When I started watching the show, Bobbie might have given Carly way too much grace but she definitely didn’t agree with her all of the time and let her know when she didn’t. Which made sense considering Bobbie liked a lot of people Carly had issues with like the Qs and Elizabeth. She even sided with Jason instead of Carly during that Michael custody battle.
That’s the type of relationship Carly desperately needs, someone she cares about questioning or disagreeing with her, and what’s missing from her life. Bobbie’s turned into another one who echoes everything Carly says and thinks she’s always right.
True. Bobbie needs to remember how Carly came into her life with her vindictive plan which was very much Scream 3 Ghostface when she could have just introduced herself. Carly's first instincts are always the worst and Bobbie of all people should remember that.
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On 3/14/2023 at 9:46 PM, sunnyface said:
If only Aunt Ruby was around. Back then, Aunt Ruby would whip Bobbie and Luke back into shape (only effective for a short while) when they acted out.
And Ruby HATED Sonny, I can't imagine she would have much love for Carly wither especially when she saw what "Caroline" put Bobbie through.
The writing was poor in the "Cam is leaving" scene because yes Esme is indirectly responsible since the revenge porn tape screwed up Joss and Cam's relationship and then she made her silly choices. Would she have made her silly choices without the sex crime, we can't say but it seems less unlikely. Of course the writing didn't articulate that and it was right there for the taking. Silly. I definitely think Cam is Spencer's best friend and his cousin so of course he's upset but they should have had Spencer and Trina needle him more on why or have Joss confess but I suppose her family lineage isn't predisposed to accountability.
Spencer is definitely blinded by rage right now but what else should he be? Esme did more than run game on him she was part/parcel and the driving force in a years long plot to destroy his family and his life. Of course he is paranoid and angry and upset, what else should he be? To expect him to shake it off and move on is the kind of toxicity that we rail against when it comes to masculinity. He's paranoid, vulnerable and broken, but just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching you.
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On 3/12/2023 at 9:52 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:
Who wore it best:
Summer Newman last week in GC
Or Duane Johnson tonight at the Oscars
Ironically she looks like Sharon here. I think she looks nice. I also loathe The Rock.
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1 hour ago, tessaray said:
Ugh, as much as I hate to defend anything Olivia or Cody related I think they established early on that he called her Mama Falconeri back in the day. The Mama Q is just an update of that.
I hate her Tessa, unabashedly. Sonny shot her son point blank in the chest then blamed it on her for not telling him and she still slept with him after. It's insane to me.
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Just now, ffwbe said:
As irritating as it is, I think that the show thinks they have sold Olivia as the Q family matriarch, even though she resents practically everything about them and throws Ned under the bus constantly. Ironically, the only time she was team Ned and defending him at all costs was when he was the evil big business mayor and we were clearly supposed to be rooting against him.
It’s why they always give her the big Quartermaine speeches about how the family is and their history. I guess we’re supposed to ignore that most of the family was long gone before she and Ned ever got involved so she didn’t exactly witness their family dynamics or had to deal with anything.
Bring back Katherine Bell. We all deserve better than the caricature that is Olivia stalking around the Q home. Katherine can bring back (real) Nik and Stefan and kick this idiot out.
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Can we retcon Michael as Jason's and kill him off? I'll revoke the no-death to legacy clause for this one exception. Especially since Jason isn't so much a Quartermaine as he is a fl*sh-eating disease. Just a suggestion.
10 hours ago, nilyank said:Wait is Olivia supposed to be Mama Qs?
I wish Ned would keep his legs closed to Bensonhurst trash.
11 hours ago, Grinaldi said:Liz's great aunt would be another of the nurses, Lucille March, Audrey's sister. I only vaguely remember her from the late 70's but she was kind of a battleax.
Jessie was more put-upon good girl with turrrrible taste in men. She longed for two things in life: Steve Hardy and to be a mother and she never got either. (Though she did get a nephew in the form of pre-Star Wars Mark Hamill)
As for Esme, I think they should have gone twin instead of redemption through childbirth/amnesia. But the bar for redemption has been set so low on this show, starting with Luke, that I think they're just going to power through it. But I'd rather Avery Pohl return as Renee*, Esme's plucky but moral twin. Is that a rehash of Ryan/Kevin? Maybe but I see it as more of a rhyme. And it keeps Esme available as an anything goes chaos agent for the future.
But yeah, if Esme is sticking around as a viable lead, she's gonna need to do some form of atoning for her crimes. Maybe not even prison - she both can't remember and has shown actual remorse - so give her community service where she has to be a janitor at the hospital. She's humiliated (Liz keeps giving her bedpans, Joss drops her coffee anytime she sees Esme with a mop, etc) But soon she realizes she can now eavesdrop on everyone in town - will her manipulative nature win out? Of course it will.
* cause Heather loved the Twilight books
And for once it would be a situation where twins actually run in the family. Hurrah continuity, and it would mean this giant baby isn't a Cassadine so my favourite family (second to the Qs) would be safe.
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If the show was "show"ing, today's Anvil with Ava and Trina would lead to Esme (faking her amnesia) accusing Ava of pushing her off the parapet and Ava coming clean about Nik due to needing an alibi. Spencer and Trina would go on the run (with Uncle Victor hot on the trail) to find Spencer's Dad (Tyler Christopher) they would weave the Anna/Valentin plot into this one and eventually Anna and Valentin would come across Nik and Spencer and Trina would come across them and Victor would come across all of them. Hijinx ensue and we get two capers for the price of one. But I'm pretty sure the show doesn't care that much.
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1 minute ago, tessaray said:
It's been several lifetimes ago but Brenda did need established characters to prop her introduction, especially the Qs. At least until she grew from a selfish, high school mean girl to an interesting character on her own.
I agree that Trina and Spencer should be as far away from Esme as possible now. Esme would be fine just as Ryan's daughter and Kevin's niece. I think we need more JL in this story though. He has very little family left and it could be a good story to see them develop a bond.
I guess I'm biased because I started watching the show (many Moons ago) because of Brenda. I always found her to be plucky especially with the Julia backstory, absent mother and father who didn't care about her. VM did a great job making me root for her when she was doing unrootable things. I think the Qs was more Chem testing when ASjr left the show and then they landed on Sonny.
It is odd and stupid that they haven't bothered to include JL in this storyline. He's Laura's hubby and the baby's uncle. It makes zero sense. Lazy, hackneyed writing I guess?
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16 hours ago, ffwbe said:
Giving her amnesia so no one can address her is a whitewash, not a redemption.
This! And your whole post in fact is pitch perfect and exactly my problem with this terrible arc. The burden is now placed on the people she hurt to forgive her and change to accept this "new" version of her yet when someone commits transgressions against someone else the burden should be placed on the transgressor not the victim (s).
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5 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:
They don't know either. Somewhere down the line she'll be exonerated of her crimes because she can't remember what she did, therefore cannot be held responsible. And her ass is getting redemption through her love for giant Gerber baby. She's now Mother Earth. I'm guessing she'll remember eventually and won't say anything.
I don't think they were planning on keeping Esme long term until they realized that the actress was good. So instead of pulling back on things and doing rewrites which they do all the time, they sacrificed Nikolas to redeem her.
MC's version of Nikolas was written as being especially stupid. Dude was hopeless, but I genuinely don't care about watching Esme go on like no biggie these days. She's Franco's half-sister, Heather and Ryan's spawn. Psycho runs as thick as blood on that side of the tree.
Exactly! Esme lost her memory and had a baby and now she's Mother Teresa not unlike Willow. Redemption through the cookie portal and somehow suddenly Spencer, her mark and the guy she manipulated and emotionally damaged is the villain and she's the bewildered victim standing in judgement of him. Spare me.
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Esme isn't comparable to Brenda, Brenda experiences happiness and empathy and she doesn't need established characters to prop her up to rebuild her story. Laura, Liz, Spencer, Trina and today even Portia are being sacrificed to prop a character that isn't needed. If she's such a great character then remove Trina and Spencer from the plot and let her stand on her own.
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5 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:
This is a show where crimes are routinely hand-waved away. I don't know where they're going with this right now, but I don't need to see her locked up.
I do. I'm clearly not going to see it though but so far Spencer and Trina have taken the fall for her crimes. I want to see her locked up and offscreensville like Spencer was. Redeem her after she pays for her crimes that others have taken the fall for.
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3 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:
But she didn't coerce them into having sex
She nudged them so she could crime. That's the point and that is the kind of malicious intent that has her locked up. Are y'all really making a case to free Esme? Mother sympathy is one thing but, c'mon.
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10 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:
How? Esmé certainly needled Joss, especially, about not having slept with Cam, but no one forced them to have sex. If they were feeling peer pressure, that's on them.
No one is forcing the giant baby to go anywhere. Esmé is his mother. She has not been shown to be abusive or neglectful toward him. Suck it, Spencer. Your claim on the baby isn't a given.
Filming them against their consent is a crime however anyone feels about Joss. Drugging, a crime. Attempted murder and framing, crime.
The massive baby should be with Laura and Kevin. Esme has been shown to be unstable.
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2 hours ago, ffwbe said:
I’ve been ffwing some scenes lately so maybe this has been addressed but is Esme in Spring Ridge pending a trial and or has she already been convicted? If she’s being held without bail, why, and what is being charged with? We know she wasn’t the hooker so is it just the sex tape? I know thats a felony but I don’t think it’s considered a serious enough crime to hold someone in jail before a trial. Also, I think even in the states that allow a baby to be taken into jail with you, it’s only once you’re convicted and serving time.
She drugged Trina, coerced Cam and Joss into having sex, filmed it, distributed it then planted the phone in Trina's purse and called an "anonymous" tip about it so 3 separate crimes there. Then she drugged and attempted to murder Oz (who sold her the black market phone) and he almost died as a result. She also set Ava's car on fire and did a few other messed up things to her while stalking her. I don't think Spencer confessed to ALL of that although even if he did that's still 4 separate and serious crimes on Esme's hands. Serious enough to hold her without bail especially when Oz went on the stand and clearly stated that he sold her the black market phone and that she drugged him to cover it up.
Even more so because each crime thereafter showed malicious intent and careful planning and plotting. You can't even say she did these things on a whim, which courts tend to take into consideration for "first time" white, female defendants. These were all calculated and even worse the attempted murder of Oz was a calculation to cover up her crime. So she can't even argue "temporary insanity" or that she felt or showed remorse for her former crimes.
Don't know why they're forcing cute 8 year old baby to go with her either. Seems like a stretch but hopefully that means I'll get a temporary reprieve from babygate.
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On 2/25/2023 at 7:18 PM, Sake614 said:
Well, JG has no one left to blame if things go south. I know he has a huge ego, but how the hell does he expect to do everything by himself???
*If*? Man, they're so south they're in Florida.
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46 minutes ago, lala2 said:
Another problem with GH is the conclusions to their arcs never justify the length of the journey! All those months of Carly keeping secrets for the end to utterly fizzle out. Curtis and Portia are clearly staying together but so much time was wasted on that secret. If the plan isn’t to shake things up, why is so much time wasted on the setup?!? GH gives no return on your investment. They’re building up this Pikeman stuff but it will probably fizzle out too.
You're right. Everyone "reacts" for the totality of the episode then they all just go about their lives and their day and the impact is never felt. It's cheap, lazy writing with no payoff. Why did we have months of the Hook storyline that was supposedly centered around Trina but she never got to confront Heather about Rory or making her life a living hell? Sonny didn't want to confront her about Brando? Diane, Ava? Bueller? And this may he back awhile but did Sasha ever find out Esme locked her in that closet? Will Liesl ever learn that Britt died saving Joss' life? What is the point of these beats if they don't get played? A waste of everyone's time, the actors, the audience, the set crew. Pointless!
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18 minutes ago, Daisy said:
She has done horrendous things and whilst doing them it made her a bad person, but again, sorry to repeat myself, I don't think it is the "core of who she is" because we don't know the core of who she is without Ryan's influence. Nor do I think her having amnesia is to wipe the slate clean. i think it's to let Esme see the bad she has done and she has been disgusted by it. when she gets her memories back, it will be how she reacts to that and again what they strive to do with her once it's back.
but we can agree to disagree and if the show proves me wrong, then i'll happily own up to it.
Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree. On another note, is there anyone on here who actually likes Willow or Willow and Michael together? (Just as an aside my phone tried to autocorrect *together to *torture) I haven't found anyone on twitter that ships them unless it's an extension of their Carly support so I'm just wondering if anyone does in fact like Willow? Everyone I've seen has been calling for her swift death.
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47 minutes ago, Daisy said:
again. i think it can be very much argued that it is. it doens't matter if Ryan disapproved of her branching out and taking care of her own business - the question is would Esme be that diabolical if Ryan hadn't groomed her to do horrible things in general to get approval etc. (because even with all of those things she was twisting it to get Nik on her side as well anyway)
I dont think we can firmly ascertain yes or no. Again. it doesnt mean you have to forgive/forget/absolve, whatever with Esme but I truly don't think it's simple as "Esme was psycho absent of Ryan." Maggie 100% didn't think so and she spent ages with her. and this behaviour isn't somthing that you flat out ignore. And when she allowed herself to be 100 percent vulnerable, Kevin & Laura didnt think so either and that was all pre amnesia.We can't speak to whether or not she would be a sociopath with or without Ryan's influence however we can speak to what we see and how far her free will extends and it's pretty far.
As far as grooming goes if one has a moral compass then it should certainly come into play with respect to attempted murder. Irrespective of whether or not Esme's sociopathy is nature or nurture her cruelty is entirely her own.
When Esme went off book with both Spencer and Ryan it was crueller and more disturbing than what their original plans were. And her distinct pleasure in observing the suffering she caused tells me exactly who Esme is. I certainly think she has opportunity to be predisposed to sociopathy with two sociopathic parents but even if it weren't genetic the absence of empathy is prevalent in her every behaviour since hitting canvas. As is the masking (in line with narcissism and narcissistic traits) and the manipulation and viewing of people as pawns to her end.
Granted, as many have pointed out GH isn't a beacon for realism however by psychological standards her very distinct lack of empathy for anyone and everyone she's come across puts her firmly in the category of aggressor and sociopath and potentially narcissist (or at the very least narcissistic traits) and not victim.
By comparison, Stone for example was groomed by Sonny to do all manner of terrible things however when he did go off book and disobey it was to support Karen (aka Carrie) and show empathy towards her whenever and however he could and like Esme, Stone was thrown around the system, landed on the streets and then was taken in by Sonny (after he was stripped from Jagger).
My point is they've written her into a corner and now are being lazy about writing her out of it and instead of forcing her to be accountable for her many, varied crimes, which she is responsible for irrespective of grooming, and sending her to prison (Spencer went there's no reason a baby should absolve her from the law) they are going the easy route with a mind wipe and the "innocent girl" act, however amnesia (not a brain injury) doesn't erase someone's core personality and Esme's core personality, irrespective of nature or nurture, sucks.
People seem to like the actress which is fair enough, she's fantastic (and interestingly shares the same acting coach as NAC) but let's call a spade a spade Esme is at best a bad person and at worst a sociopath and the show went to great lengths to demonstrate either or both.
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19 minutes ago, tessaray said:
I think Ryan's manipulation of Esme was real - at least as long as they follow thru with amnesiac Esme being her true, base personality. But teenage girls are all over the map. She really did seem to care about keeping Spencer (even if it was only because if she lost him she'd lose her entre into Ava's life and daddy's approval, but I think it was both that and personal) and Trina was a real threat. She was also hurt by Joss and Trina's non-acceptance. They may never be able to sort out what was Ryan, what was the adopted, orphaned hurt little girl lashing out and what was her natural inclination but that's okay. Gray characters are what make a soap fun to watch. As long as this Esme isn't a complete psychopath, I'm interested in her journey.
Trina wasn't a "threat" though she was a girl minding her own business when Spencer kept pursuing her. Neither was Esme a hurt little girl, she is someone who took pleasure in watching others suffer and causing pain and had she got her way Trina would now be in prison for Esme's very meticulous crime and exploitation of both Joss and Cameron. Oz would also be dead. None of those things had anything to do with Ryan.
The show took pains to show her laughing at the trouble and pain she caused and to show that it was entirely her idea to frame an innocent Black girl in the American court system (and I believe Portia brought that up on the show) and to manipulate Joss and Cam into having sex the first time and drugging Trina so she could film it, then she poisoned Oz to cover it up as well.
That was all Esme, it is shown to be entirely her and her base personality and Ryan was shown to disapprove of those things as he was focused on Ava, he had nothing to do with those crimes and they are crimes. To absolve Esme of them because she had amnesia and she has psychopaths for parents is to infantalize her and remove her agency. Esme committed those awful crimes with no prodding or manipulation from anyone else and Trina can't be assumed a threat for simply existing around Esme's boyfriend who was clearly pursuing her.
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33 minutes ago, tessaray said:
I found it interesting that Willow didn't waste any time calling Obrecht "Aunt Liesl" when discussing her with Michael.
I was opposed to Liz confessing but am glad to be wrong, since it gave her a bit of spunk in her convos with Esme and Victor. At some point, I would like to see Liz and Esme talk about Franco and Steven Lars. Having both Laura and Liz in her life might help mitigate the effects Ryan's manipulation had on her.
It wasn't all Ryan though, Esme did plenty of manipulation herself. The revenge porn and framing of innocent Trina was all Esme in fact Ryan told her to cool it with the cross-pollination vengeance and she disobeyed. She was even following Trina around while she was pregnant and supposed to be laying low.
The narrative of Esme as entirely manipulated by Ryan bothers me and that seems to be the narrative the show is running with as well however, just because she has amnesia doesn't mean I do. This is a girl that would stir up the hornet's nest then lurk in corners and laugh about the devastation and emotional turmoil she caused. She's the GH equivalent to Terry Silver only worse because Terry has been shown to display empathy.
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47 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:
Since Esme's amnesia appears to be real, can you imagine how un-nerving it must be to be surrounded by all these psychos and sketchy characters? Of the people in her immediate orbit only Laura, Liz, and Diane seem to be mostly ok and even Liz has issues with Esme. She starts with Ryan and Heather as parents and it all goes downhill pretty quickly.
Yeah, but that's her fault, nobody told her to yeet herself off the parapet.
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Spencer's entitlement over baby Damien doesn't bother me, however naive and foolish it may be. As far as I'm concerned Esme deserves the Mussolini treatment in the town square so IDGAF about her rights as a "mother" as I dont empathize with sociopaths.
That big newborn baby is fucked regardless. Cute as he may be, his mother, and both grandparents on one side are psychopaths/sociopaths and (if we are to believe the baby is a Cassadine, I don't ) the other side of the family hasn't proven much better. That baby is a nightmare waiting to happen. They should revive Tony Jones just to come snatch this demon child and remove it from the timeline post haste because the chances that it doesn't grow up a supervillain are slim to none.
44 minutes ago, Bunnyto4 said:This was absolutely a missed opportunity which none of the soaps took advantage of along with Y&R and the women's choice discussion. Soap writing is going backwards, IMO.
That's what I'm saying. Since studios morphed into holding companies for corporations the opportunity for good storytelling has evaporated, instead they're pushing an agenda. GH used to lead the charge with BJ's heart, Simone and Tom, Stone and Robin's A.I.D.S, H.I.V story and all the talk around protected and unprotected sex, and sharing needles and later on Robin's opportunity to have a child as an H.I.V positive woman. Monica's mastectomy, the Wards and Bradley's murder and now we have two young mothers (one not even old enough to drink) and they don't even consider abortion? Diabolical messaging.
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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH
in General Hospital
Esme can go ahead and go first. Her little pity party about no one forgiving her for her heinous crimes (meanwhile they dropped not stayed the charges) made me throw up in my mouth a little.