[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

9 minutes ago, beagledog100 said:

Was there some fall out with Sydney Durso and Madeline Molloy? 

What makes you think so? 

They are heavily featured on Instagram together. Did something happen?

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

In the clip with VK and Jinelle, VK is looking really pretty. I can't figure out the difference. Her face looks slimmer? Did she lose some of the weight? Change  her makeup? This pic isn't the best because I had to reduce the resolution so much but I can still a slimness there I think?

Also, Don't get me wrong, Kelli is a gorgeous woman and always looks great. But her dresses are sometimes too tight and the one next week is too low cut. I don't understand why she doesn't dress more comfortably for Texas outside weather on a football field. She always seems so out of place -- you know she's got layers of Spanx under there. 

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

36 minutes ago, CaseyRe said:

training does not equal empathy.  Trust me on this.  training isn't walking in someone else's shoes. stating, as fact no less, that a woman you don't know hasn't empathy to a situation you're not party to is somewhat astounding to me.

First, I never, ever said training equalled empathy. I said it would be more helpful LONG term to EITHER have the necessary training to counsel an at risk 18 year old OR at LEAST have some first hand experience in the situation to better understand the problem.    But second, if you read my posts you'd see where I clarified that the word empathy was not the best word choice.  I never meant to imply that Jinelle was not a compassionate person. And third THIS IS NOT ABOUT JINELLE - am sure she's a lovely person. Signing off about this now.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

10 minutes ago, viccib said:

but, how do you know she has no empathy??? you can't really make a statement like that without having something to back it up. I know lots of people who have never struggled with their weight and they have a lot of empathy for people who do. Just my opinion.

You're right. I'm not using the proper term. As an explanation, my husband is naturally thin. He must work to gain weight. His dearest friend and cousin is not obese but must work to keep weight off. Neither one of them are able to walk in the others shoes and truly understand each others' experience. In fact they often argue about it and end up frustrated.  However, I'm sure Jinelle has a great deal of compassion for people. I wasn't trying to imply otherwise and likely just used the term empathy improperly. My apologies.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

5 minutes ago, CaseyRe said:

Exactly!

Just because jinelle is thin and has, to our knowledge, not struggled with her weight doesn't mean that she suffers from a lack of empathy or compassion. that's no different to saying all trainers and nutritionalists have to have been overweight at some point AND have genetics that cause them to struggle all their life or they don't know how to treat people. or that all theerapists have to have depression or a mental disorder or they can't treat people properly. Not all surgeons have ever had surgery themselves.  it's, frankly, nonsense.  Jinelle knows the value of a healthy lifestyle not a diet, and likely has a lot of information that can be useful.  Sometimes trainers give information that's great but less applicable to someone's real everyday life whereas Jinelle has lived the DCC life, she knows the sort of time suck it'd be, knows the travel and hours and therefore knows how to best prep food around that, and she was working with a nutritionalist too. I think it's a bit much to essentially say that she's a cold heartless bitch towards those with weight issues just because she's thin.

When did anyone say she was a cold heartless bitch? This isn't about Jinelle being a mean person. I'm sure she's quite the opposite. I said she had neither the empathy nor the necessary training. So in fact it is indeed quite different. The people you have listed above are all trained in their specialty to appropriately treat and counsel. Jinelle can be a good friend I'm sure and even of help perhaps with tips and tricks. However, VK has a family history of weight struggle and she is 18. She just quickly gained 11 pounds. There is a problem. She will require better care than a good friend who is a DCC. As said in all my previous posts - weight struggles are real live medical conditions. They are not simply about healthy eating and will power. The scientific literature is very clear and our society has been looking at these struggles completey wrong for decades. The stigma alone is difficult enough.  People who struggle, especially teenage girls at risk for eating disorders and living in the DCC world require multiple angles of intervention to truly change. A few healthy eating tips from a skinny friend, while perhaps helpful, will not solve her long term problem.

And as said -- this is not about Jinelle! It is VK's responsibility to find the proper team to help her - which she should have done months and months ago. I was merely saying that Kelli's gift of a skinny bird on the shoulder was completely laughable.

[S13.E08: Here Comes Kitty]

1 hour ago, MyFavShows said:

Cassie would often use the phrase “suck” in her interviews, as in “this sucks”,  “I hope I don’t suck at this”, etc. and sounded very inarticulate and uneducated almost every time she spoke.  She was definitely unprofessional.   Her and Taylor were actually very similar - only Taylor was a lot prettier, funnier and a better dancer than Cassie was her first year - I actually think Cassie was jealous of Taylor and all the attention she was getting and that’s why she lashed out at her during the Aly incident.

Ironic that in season one they thought Megan Flaherty was unpolished and lacking poise. It's been a long time since that Jackie book was read.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

58 minutes ago, sleepyjean said:

Yeah and apparently Kelli was more desperate than Victoria was. Victoria is the one who should have been scrambling, not only to get into shape, but also to show her commitment by actively accepting and seeking every possible assistance.

I truly do not understand some of the reactions...as if talking to jinelle would have been some tremendously damaging experience. If she was ineffective, then ok, those are a few hours of life vk wouldn't get back. She could've thanked Jinelle, gotten in her car, and driven right to a nutritionist. It bothers me that people are reacting as if VK had no agency, as if the problem was that the DCC didn't offer the "right" resources. This was 100% Victoria's responsibility to take care of, not Kelli's job to find out the root cause and solution for Victoria's weight gain. Kelli is her potential employer, not her mother or her physician.

 

54 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Right on! Not enough likes on the planet for this post.

I bet if Kelli would have ask Tasha who struggled with her weight last year and came close to being cut for a bad interview and weight gain Victoria would have brushed her off too. Former and current DCCs offered to help Victoria out, but she refused the help. Do not blame them for Victoria's mistakes and weight gain (and yes her "enablers" Miss Kitty, Charlotte, Tina, Kelli and CMT need to take part of the blame also.)

For the record I agree with all of this. Except I was never blaming Jinelle. I simply said that she is not qualified to counsel someone about weight. I also said that I understand the emotions and shame that VK likely was feeling. Just read this board. Shame is a huge part of the obesity epidemic in the US.  Does that excuse VK from not seeking out proper resources? No. Do I think DCC is responsible for helping VK? No. Do I think VK should have sought out proper treatment before training camp? Yes. Do I think VK was being immature about the entire situation? Yes.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

2 minutes ago, MTTFan said:

I so disagree with this -- are you saying that only overweight people can counsel other overweight people?  Also, you assume VK's assertion that she has genetic or biological struggles with weight is the truth.  I am not sure that any of us know Jinelle's backstory - she could have been the chubby kid when she was in HS for all we know.  I think Jinelle would be a great mentor -- she knows nutrition, she knows the organization and she knows the stress of camp.

For my money, if it is true that VK was "guaranteed" spot, she threw it away with both hands by gaining 11 pounds in training camp -- if she had the genetic biological problems in camp -- why weren't they manifested before camp -- stopping for milkshakes after training and going for the two scoops of whipped cream after being released belies her assertion.  I don't believe it for a red-hot second.

She comes across as a spoiled "I believe that I am entitled" person and I can totally believe that there was a celebration in the locker room after the cut.

She is not the only one to "blame for this fiasco -- Kelly (nepotism), Judy (not being assertive) Kitty (for being hypocritical) and her mother (for putting Kelli in a no-win situation).

This football season needs to be over already.

Yes I assume VK's assertion that she has a genetic or biological struggle with weight is the truth. Because it is. The scientific evidence is very clear on this subject. Only people trained with the proper knowledge to counsel someone appropriately should be utilized otherwise you do more harm than good  - long term.  It's not just about milkshakes.

I'm done making my point. 

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

13 minutes ago, sleepyjean said:

But why not? By that logic, nutritionists, fitness coaches, personal trainers, etc. Would all have to have struggled with weight issues in order to effectively help their clients and that is not the case. Ultimately, it is encumbent on VK, as an adult, to get her body in the right condition. (It goes without saying that she should have arrived in the right shape to begin with.) She can go out and hire whatever resources she needs, including a nutritionist with a similar background in weight struggles, if that's what would help. Jinelle was a free gift. It isn't the DCC's responsibility to get VK into shape and to find appropriately empathetic resources to provide those services.

Jinelle has NEITHER the empathy needed NOR the training necessary. She is not a certified nutritionist, fitness coach or personal trainer.

I agree that it is not DCC that is responsible for VK's health. I just understand why VK would blow off Jinelle and feel as if she needed to lie. 

Yes, you are correct. VK does need to find a team to help her. She will struggle her entire life.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

12 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

There is a big difference in my opinion about saying I was pulled over by law enforcement for a tail light being out or speeding and saying I have a thyroid condition leading to a weight gain and refusing to seek help from a former DCC Kelli ask you to seek help from and saying you went and saw the Cowboys doctor when obviously you did not especially when Kelli sat up the appointment and the doctor took time from his very busy schedule to see you in the first place. And poor Victoria had to be in the same room with Jinelle because Jinelle is petite. Should Judy be in the same room since she looks absolutely amazing and fit at the age of 60. Heck take her out of the room when Shelly walks in too because she looks amazing also, and do not let her sit next to the veterans and TC Candidates who are petite and tiny because it is unfair and might hurt her feelings.

The point is that Jinelle was not an appropriate mentor for someone with genetic and biological struggles with weight. She is a very healthy person and works hard for that.  But she lacks the the ability to empathize. And she lacks the fundamental understanding for why some people struggle and some people do not.

The very reason that VK thought she had to lie to begin with is the problem. She is ashamed and afraid. Even if she doesn't have a thyroid condition, weight struggle is a very real medical condition. Judgment is not necessary. 

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

Just throwing this out there regarding editing. I've been re- watching all the earlier seasons. By week 5 most of the TCC are still a mess and forgetting choreo and looking awkward. Judy is yelling at all of them frequently. So the fact that Dayton could have overcome the memory mistakes is valid. It was only week 5 when she was cut.

Maybe I don't understand the reason for making early cuts. They kept saying "we have to cut someone." Why do they have to cut at week 5 If they all have potential. 

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

28 minutes ago, ladybug525 said:

i highly doubt that jinelles advice is to eat rice cakes. she may not be a nutritionist but she is very outspoken about her love for healthy foods, fresh veggies and healthy fats. she has said she treats food as fuel for her body and i guarantee she knows very well how to eat properly to sustain energy during long practices and 4 hour games without unnecessary added calories or chemicals. i think she would be a great asset on the road to a healthy lifestyle and kelli and judy know that too which is why they asked her to help Victoria. As much as kelli loves v.k. i dont think for a second she would put her in less than capable hands when it comes to whatever she thinks it would help Victoria become a dcc. If v.k. had put 100% effort into letting jinelle guide her i think she would have had favorable results. 

The science behind why some people have weight problems vs. others is light years ahead of what is out in the public domain. Even medical practitioners are still treating these issues as a will power problem. People have both genetic and biological reasons for being overweight and very often cannot simply just change their habits with the guidance from someone who says "eat clean, eat fresh veggies." It is not that simple and it is not a one size fits all in terms of treatment.  VK likely crash dieted to get ready for auditions but her set point weight was higher and her body reverted. Extremely common. The battle will be lifelong and will need constant vigilant monitoring from a variety of angles. A skinny bird on her shoulder who does not have the understanding for what it means to battle and change biology, will not be helpful. In fact it likely made the shame of this process even worse. The social stigma, as evidenced even on this forum, is so unnecessary.  Years ago, people were blamed for getting cancer too.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

1 minute ago, FMRDancerNYC said:

They dont give a flying cow about what we think on this forum. It's all about ratings. As long as we watch they will have a show. If VK makes it next year, send message where it hurts... ratings, dont watch the show. The only purpose for this public forum is vent and gossip. 

Ok yeah I get that but I'm wondering if they use the CMT footage to make decisions. Like when they start watching back and seeing how some of these girls look and come across. It influences us. Does it influence Kelli and Judy and those final cuts?

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

4 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

I definitely think they edit the show to make the girls who will be cut look bad enough as an excuse to cut her. Just like Amy in Season 7. Her cut scene was heavily edited. She said more than yes ma'm, was nervous when she was talking with Kelli and Judy, and she was in the office for longer than was shown. She also was in Urgent Care the night before cameo photo day because she was sick trying to keep her weight down in order to fit into the uniform. They are in major damage control mode trying to convince us Victoria deserves to be on the squad, but their efforts are failing them big time.

Can someone help me with the timeline? I think I remember that the show aired before the final squad was announced and before the last cuts including Tara, VK and the others were made. Are all the episodes packaged and done before they air the premier? Or are they going back and adding scenes and dubbing based on knowing the final team? Is it possible that seeing some of these girls on the CMT first few episodes, and seeing the fans reactions influenced all those final cuts?

[S13.E08: Here Comes Kitty]

Kitty always says she is the DCC technical coach. What does that mean exactly? Does she work with all the girls all year long- or just the select few that choose to work with her?

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

Just for the record, Kelli did acknowledge that VK was out of control and behind the count in her dance. And VK was warned a few times about her soft midsection - once in the office on camera and at least one time before that as we heard VK indicate she had already been spoken to about the softness. So Kelli knows its not right. Either she is keeping her because of her relationship or she is keeping her for the storyline. Not sure which.

I don't think people would cry nepotism if Dayton were simply given more time. She has s such a great look and is a talented dancer. She could have been game ready in time. Between Malena and Dayton, Malena should have gone home. Malena already had a proven track record of not being game ready. They could have kept Dayton longer.

Also, is it the style to have all those dark roots now? A lot of the girls have them. I don't like it.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

1 hour ago, Loves2Dance said:

I'm not so sure. I think most of the footage we've seen of Dayton struggling was earlier in the camp and even Shelly said the cut came out of nowhere and was not expected at all. Shelly has never struck me as blind or over hyping Dayton. 

This is one of those times where I don't want you to be true because it's such a shitty situation for Dayton. But in my heart, I can absolutely believe it and could see Kelli's line of thinking. Blind idiot---that is her new nickname with me. 

Any chance Shelly takes over as Choreographer once Judy retires? 

Isn't the writing on the wall? Kitty is there. She loves VK. She doesn't love Dayton. Dayton gets cut. It's too bad because Dayton would have been fine by the end of training camp - she just needed more time and they didn't give her any. Oh well. Onward. Reminds me of Cassie because she needed more time and they did give it to her. Judy knew she could do it and that was all that was needed to look the other way until she got game ready.

Even though they both prepared, I assume VK took prep with Kitty and Dayton didn't?

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

18 minutes ago, JohnGalt said:

Ashlee, Daphne, Bridget, Erin, Hannah Taylor J

Tara, Rachel A, Tasha, Lacey, Gina, Miranda

 

Victoria, Jalyn, Lily, Madeline Molloy, Rachel W?

Molly, Khalyn, KaShara, Heather, Yuko

 

Alanna?, Taylor T, Malena, Dayton, Cianna, Gabby

Jessika, Tess, Amy, Lauren, Alexis

 

Caroline, Amber, Kristin, Brennan, Briana

Savannah, Kelli, Madeline, Lexie, Christina

 

I might have mixed up a couple of the blondes and brunettes, but it’s enough to tell that the blue stickers don’t mean show group.

Amazing how once you put the names there you can totally see them. It was a blurry mess to me before and now crystal clear! Thx. Ok, so what do the blue stickers mean?

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

3 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I definitely thought the second row started with Tara and see how the picture is a little farther apart than the others. Assume Tara might be a Kitty victim. Perhaps that's already been addressed.

Is this in group order or something? That looks like Maddie way down center bottom.

and there are little symbols on some of the pics which I think indicate show group

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

Just now, Trixi said:

The 2nd row looks like Tara, Molly, poss Tasha, Lacey, Gina and poss Miranda. 

I definitely thought the second row started with Tara and see how the picture is a little farther apart than the others. Assume Tara might be a Kitty victim. Perhaps that's already been addressed.

Is this in group order or something? That looks like Maddie way down center bottom.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

   5 HOURS AGO,  BIGSKYGIRL SAID: 

"Somebody with better skills than me try to zoom in at :22 and see what order those photos on the white board"

 

I tried but it was too blurry. Maybe someone else is savvy.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

58 minutes ago, MyFavShows said:

My daughter’s friend dances with Victoria at the same studio. Victoria told her classmates that she was cut because she was getting too much attention; taking away air time from the other training camp girls. 

Honestly I could see Tina or even Kelli telling VK this was why she got cut.

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

32 minutes ago, rose711 said:

Vivian got cut because of her memory and because she hadn’t done the jump split for them at all. Kelli met with her about it.

oh also she was bad on the entrance and she lost her power dancing she had the year before. The poem was an indication of how out of it she was during training camp. 

I still think she would have been ok if they had taken her that first year.

Funny I just finished re watching that season. It was the last week of training camp and she was having trouble with the entrance. She was doing the jump splits again by that point though. There were 4 girls on the border. Chandler (aka grandma), Breelan, Ashley and Vivian. They keep Ashley and Breelan (wrong decision). Vivian made less mistakes than those two. They cut her because of the "fame pressure" and likely because she was not a team player - too much of a distraction. Familiar?

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

14 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

I was told the same thing. I hate to see Jinelle get in trouble for what Victoria did. Jinelle might have been told to cover for her. *cough Kelli, Charlotte and CMT cough*

Covered for her how exactly? 

There are pieces to this story that don't add up. It's clear VK is gaining weight. Even her latest instragram post shows the same problem. If she tried to explain her weight gain as being do to a thyroid condition then where was her own doctor's note? Or did she just say I don't know why I'm gaining weight and then she was sent to the cowboys doctor to find out why? If she had a known thyroid problem she would not need a cowboys doctor. Her PCP is more than capable of addressing it and managing it. 

I agree that lying is unacceptable however I don't really understand why she was made to go in the first place. I also don't see how Jinelle could cover up a missed appointment. It's on the record and likely HIPPA doesn't apply because she probably signed a waiver regarding health issues as she entered TCC. 

[Finals, Training Camp and Social Media]

Both VK and Tina have retweeted CMT promotions of the show as of September.  VK also posted a gushing thank you to DCC and Kelli and promised to come back next year healthier. They aren't upset and angry.