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The Dean leads Sam follows has always confused me. I have seen Sam regularly disagree with Dean and Dean has regularly agreed to do things Sam's way over the course of the series. Sam actually isn't that great of a follower in my opinion.

This x ten

The ones I automatically think of are 8 and 9 so I will have to think about it. I will check but it may be a while. I start 4 days of intense recertifications tomorrow and will have little time until next week. Are you ok waiting until then?

I just bought that Zach did it but I can buy that it could have been Ruby. Thanks.

This is the first part of our discussion: 20 HOURS AGO, AWESOMO4000 SAID: I disagree with this to an extent in that I agree with @CATROX14 that Sam can't know what it was like, just as Dean can't ever know what it was like to grow up not feeling quite "right" or feeling like you don't quite fit anywhere, Me: Dean knew exactly what it was like to not feel like he fit in anywhere. It could be argued that his childhood was more difficult than Sam's. Sam had Dean as a pseudo Mom and Dad because, as Dean said to Mary, Dad was a "shell" of a man. Who did Dean have? And it was thrown in Dean's face a lot that his family didn't need him like he needed them. It is Canon that Dean was the buffer between Sam because of what he wanted and John and what he wanted from Sam. Who cared about what Dean wanted. We are never given anything to show either Sam or his Dad were concerned about what Dean wanted. Actually, Dean said all he wanted was to be a family. Did we ever see any effort by Sam or John to try for Dean's sake. According to the shifter, Dean had dreams too. Who cared about them. Who was there to steal Christmas presents for Dean? Who was there to give up Lucky Charms for Dean? Where was Dean's imaginery friend? I actually have more sympathy for Dean than Sam as far as their childhood. He didn't have anybody. I am sorry I misunderstood. I thought we were still talking about Sam's childhood and Dean's. My comment back on After school Special was: I got exactly the opposite out of after school special. Sam left that school having been encouraged by a teacher to follow his own dreams and that's just what he did. He studied hard and went off to college. It wasn't until after Jessica's death that he gave up his dream (sort of) and he gave it up for revenge. Also in After School Special, Sam was shown as the one in the end who fit in and had friends. Dean was shown as the outcast. Again, I guess we were kind of talking about different things. That would work if the show didn't have Sam multiple times after that say he wanted to quit hunting and he wanted a normal life. The first time Sam actually embraced hunting on a permanent basis was when he was talking about MoC Dean with Charlie. That's when Sam said for the first time that he loved hunting. Anyway, that's the first time that he hasn't contradicted himself at a later point that I remember.

I thought Zachariah said something that would lead us to believe he did the phone message. Something like he took care of that. I don't remember. I just remember that it made me think Zach was the message changer.

I think the "I'm glad we do" had more to do with being with Dean and not having lost Dean to the Djin than being happy hunting.

After School Special is one of the three or four episodes I usually skip entirely on a rewatch. I understand what you are saying about adult Sam in this episode.I thought the writing for adult Sam and young Dean were depressing and just plain bad so we agree there and on a lot of the points you made as far as adult Sam. As far as Dean blaming Sam for having to give up his Dreams, I don't think Dean blamed Sam. I think he just felt that maybe life hadn't given him a chance in a lot of ways. I don't think Dean is capable of blaming Sam for his (Dean's) life.

However the original discussion we were having, I thought, was Dean's childhood as opposed to Sam's childhood so the flashbacks were what was relevant to the original topic . What Sam found out going back as an adult wasn't relevant to what his thoughts were as a child.

Jensen has great chemistry with just about everybody. I do think some of the no chemistry with Anna was 1) the actress wasn't too convincing and 2) I understand that a lot of fans don't want romantic interest for either of the boys. Actually, come to think of it, I'm in that camp but probably not for the same reason as many.

I follow now :-)

I really didn't like what they did with Sam. I know writers have this big thing about character's being flawed and then overcoming all to save the day but they went way way overboard in my opinion. It didn't make any sense either. If you find it, post the link please! I would find that interesting. Good thing he isn't a recent addition to the show. They kill off the good characters and keep the bad forever.

So season 12 DVDs will be released (US) Sept. 5

OK. Thanks for the info. I wasn't part of SPN so didn't know all that background. I bet it was a tough summer for fans! Makes sense to me too. I can't imagine those early seasons without Castiel either. I have to admit though that since probably season 5, I have felt like the writing for him has continued to go downhill. Pretty fast the last two seasons IMO. Where is my warrior angel?

I'm glad that particular writers strike happened then. Dean suspended over the abyss was an iconic SPN moment. IMO, the most dramatic of the entire series. It also changed the storyline dramatically.