tofutan
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Current conspiracy theory is that the dream actually shows Mon-El's real location.
Artist’s concept of Saturn as seen from its natural satellite Titan
Versus:
Suggesting that Saturn Girl might be the one sending the dream.
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It just seems kinda weird to me that the dream about her mother and the dream about Mon-El have the same setting. I guess they wanted to make use of their location shoot?
I like that they are reusing the speech from Cat from last season. I wonder if that is them previewing the arc of the season for Kara? And for this arc she needs a big "at her lowest point" moment?
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But the entire plot of the season seems to already by: How evil is Reign, does she have to be evil? Who believes in her and who doesn't? Like, how many times over do you have to tell that story?
Are we sure the couple in bed (around 0:23) are Karamel too? One person seems to be wearing a ring or something?
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I think it was CL who also mentioned she wanted a return to Sara with more of an edge
She also wanted more Captain Canary. That doesn't mean that she writers will listen to her.
QuoteI wonder if Mon-el will just be appearing in cheesy dream sequences and flashbacks for the early part of the season.
That's the theory. Mostly because supposedly he's not in the first few episodes to our knowledge (current theory is 7 for his return) and a regular, I guess they need to do something with him so his paycheck doesn't go to waste.
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I think that ship has just passed. Like they are both single, they could have hooked up at any time, but instead they showed interest in other people. I think the writers of Legends just see Ray as very hapless, lovable doofus type, while they value Sara very highly, so I don't think they will go there.
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44 minutes ago, Proteus said:
It's someone who posted a lot of details about Supergirl that sound true and then deleted or made their account private.
I would rather talk about Legends here.
What else did they post?
That Florianna hasn't shot episodes since 5 isn't really that novel, so posting that and that there might be a breakup in there isn't really that great insider stuff.
Mon-El being back in 7 on the other hand is more interesting, but then it's odd if they posted this recently that nobody else reported that Chris was shooting. I've seen a name thrown around for the potential Saturn Girl actress, but she looks nothing like Saturn Girl unless she's willing to dye her hair. It also seems like she's flying in from SEAsia to Canada, so that seems like a really strange fit for somebody like Mon-El's wife who I would expect to stick around more. Like, why wouldn't they hire somebody more local? It's not like she is a big, well known name or looks like the character.
Did that person say they were going to do Alex/Sara or is this something that fans assumed, based on the breakup spoiler and the news that they will have scenes together.
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I've read some theries that maybe some Kara or Zor-El DNA could have been used to create Reign, so in theory the child could be related to Kara by blood.
I think there is some potential drama to be had if Reign dies. I read that from a casting POV, Reign is supposed to be a 1 season character, while the daughter got a contract with an option for an additional season. => To me that implies that Reign likely dies at the end of the season because I don't see how Reign would ever leave her daughter behind.
Reign's daughter could have inherited superpowers from her mother. And she could hold a grudge against the good guys for causing the death of ther mother (whether directly or indirectly).
Not that I love to see yet ANOTHER "will she turn evil, yes or no?" story. But I could see some potential if the daugther just hates Supergirl's guts. A villain with an actual, non-crazy reason to hate the good guys.
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1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:
Three episodes later is an eternity for breakups on tv shows. Alex could very well be ready for at least a fun fling but just because both like girls doesn't mean Alex and Sara have to hook up.
I see some logic in this:
1.) Both Sara and Alex are favorites of their male writers. I could see them salivating over a chance to hook them up.
2.) The villains in the crossovers are Nazis and the whole point of the freedom fighters according to Guggenheim is that those oppressed by the nazis (women, jews, gays) make up the freedom fighters. So that might give them reason to put their LGBT cred front an center. It would fit with them advertising the award they got and how they make a big show out of the live action version of The Ray being in the crossover. There's probably a semi decent chance we'll get "clever" nods to the Trump administration if the previous season of Supergirl is anything to go by.
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I think they just don't expect all viewers to follow such specialized promotion like cons or following people on instagramm. I think they think that there is a section of viewers whose mode of promotion are just promos and at the most tv guide articles and episode summaries.
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Iris gets quite a few lines in the new Flash promo.
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7 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:
I don't think that Oliver and any version of Laurel would end up together because the issue was chemistry between the two actors not back story. I don't think their chemistry changes no matter what version we see.
Who said or implied anything like that? So far the most everybody is talking about is family, and the E1 people maybe reminding her of her family. That doesn't even require her not to be evil, plenty of Arrowverse villains have a sort spot for family and still remain villains, try to take over the world and get killed for it. Just because so far she hasn't really let that stop her from evildoing doesn't mean that it might not happen on the future or that she might at least fake it to get under people's skin.
If they wanted to try out Oliver and BS (even if just for a one time hump that makes both of them realize that they just really aren't "their" Oliver/Laurel) they wouldn't have needed to reconnect Oliver and Felicity at the end of the season or made BS that unremorseful. The pieces just aren't in place for even just a temporary Oliver/BS hookup and that's because the writers arranged the pieces. If anything all this talk about family suggests that whatever happens will be all platonic, and consider that there are two living Lances running around in the extended Arrowverse, there's not even a reason to assume that it will be mostly about Ollie.
QuoteThe big concept behind parallel worlds is one world for any possible choice made and how it plays out. So in some worlds, Laurel Lance would share traits and in other, Laurel Lance wouldn't exist and in others, she's pure evil. So really, it's whatever they end up wanting it to be because somewhere out there is every version possible.
That doesn't change that so far the majority of the Arrowverse (and comics in general) have been most interested in comparatively close universes and love telling stories like a character is always a hero deep down no matter how dire the circumstances. And yes, of course that reflects negatively on Laurel if E2 is relateively close to E1 and it took her that little to become fullblown evil. it suggest that some element of that is in her even if on E1 that never came into fruition.
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1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:
Experiences are exactly what shape us in the person we are. There are plenty of people that share traits but that one, unique person is special to me. Without that it's someone else, a stranger. I get if they play it like they have a hard time hurting her (even if Lance and Felicity had no problem) because looking at her they are reminded of the person they lost but in no way because that person kind of is Laurel, because she isn't.
That's how it might play out in real life, but these shows are basically fantasy fairy tales and they love playing with this idea that certain elements of a characters stay constant across universes.
I don't want the show to just grab BS and slot her into Laurel's place and it would be really gross if they basically "adopted" her back into the family. but some amount of nostalgia, like an echo makes a lot of sense. Especially since I don't think that they have any intention of exploring E2 Laurel as truly her own character, with them getting to know her and learning to appreciate her for herself, with all the ways she's different from E1 Laurel.
I think a redemption story or tragic villain story that echoes E1 Laurel and either has a sad or bittersweet ending (like E2 Laurel realizing she needs to leave this earth and find her luck elsewhere) makes the most sense for the setup. Or they could find out that there really is nothing Laurel like to her at all, but even that story is more effective if they keep hoping and trying for a long time only to be disappointed and screwed over in the end as BS dashes their hopes and tells them to suck it.
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They said something along the lines that they had a very modern storyline planned for Alex and Maggie, so my first thought was long distance relationship. Like Maggie goes away on a job offer or decides to take care of a family member who is sick, but they won't break up. I don't think that it needs to affect the relationship that much, they could just have her show up on occasion and be supportive or only have her show up for important episodes. I'm more sad that her absence likely means less police action.
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Or what @BKWURM1 said while I was looking up Reign on wikipedia to see if she ever wore a mask.
She doesn't. And even if she did it seems they have said they will not go for the comic costume. Which I think is sad, I think her comic book look is very interesting. OA talked about being relieved because that means that she won't have to run around in makeup and also Reign's costume in the comics is essentially a black bra and shoulderpads, which seemed to make OA uncomfortable. I think they could have easily tweaked the costume to give her a proper armor, warrior breastplate. But I like Reign's alien look. So I'm still hoping that if Reign's powers actually trigger there will be a physical component to it too, because I fear otherwise she'll just look like just another Kryptonian badguy, which we already had in season 1 in Astra and in season 2 we had Rhea who essentially was just like a Kryptonian, just with another name.
So I would prefer it if she actually had a different look for the final confrontations, even though I understand that they need to have her look "normal" for all the stories about bonding with Supergirl & friends.
QuoteI am 100% sure Mon El will return to Earth to be a hero.
He'll still need some sort of central conflict. And if Reign is the core villain and the core story of the season,I would expect him to have a opinion on that subject. I vaguely remember there being a comic con interview spoilers which hinted that even if Mon-El comes back that doesn't mean that he'll and Kara will get back together immediately and it might have something to do with the position he is in.
If he comes from the future with information on Reign he must not tell people or if he and Kara are on different sides in regards to what to do with Reign, that would provide that conflict.
If they say here that people will have different opinions on how to handle with Reign, they need people to argue the different positions. So far Reign has mostly been linked to Lena and James (some people speculate that Sam will work for Lena, I don't know if this has been officially confirmed yet?). So the question is how they will connect Reign to the DEO characters, most notably Alex.
I'm not sure though how Mon-El arguing the tough stance will fit with his arc as a hero, but I still think him having the tough stance makes more sense than the other way around. Maybe the show thinks that revealing that he is doing heroic stuff with the Legion off screen is enough to complete his hero arc.
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I do think that the mindset behind Supergirl is different but at the same time, Alex and eventually this Sam character are ACTION! characters, masks or no masks.
But that means that the original statement was still incorrect, since neither of them wear a mask. A statement like "AK doesn't talk much about (or presumably even dislikes) non-action characters" (which in this case would include male characters like James or Winn) is a very, very different statement and insinuation than "Ak doesn't talk about female characters" or "Ak doesn't talk about non-Mask female characters".
QuoteSo sure, they'll get brought up sometimes, but Alex did actually suffer from some of the stuff we've seen done to Iris and Caitlin on The Flash, reducing them to love interest or cheerleader.
The original topic was promotion. And I disagree that Alex didn't get to do any action stuff last season and I don't like that just because she got a love story that automatically means that she is "reduced". I would argue that Alex getting a love story and breaking away from Kara for a bit, to have a character who is in HER corner first and foremost, not Kara's was an important step in Alex development. I don't think Alex being all about Kara in season 1 was any more healthy than Alex in the end headlining her own story in season 2.
It seems very weird to me to relate this back to the complaints people have about Flash, because most complaints about Flash that I see are about Barry being the center of the universe. To me that is something that is MUCH more true about Supergirl season 1 where all and every story looped back to Kara. While season 2 of Supergirl was the show where characters got to have their own stories and character development away from Kara. And for those people complaining that was because Mon-El was taking over, I'm sorry, nobody can stretch that far to believably argue that Alex/Maggie, J'onn/M'Gann, Winn/Lyra, The Guardian storyline, Lena/Lillian were all about Mon-El.
Supergirl season 2 complaints are usually the opposite of "on Flash everything is about Barry and only Barry's point of view matters", that there were too many stories that weren't enough about Kara.
QuoteAnd I really worry that Sam will end up going bad pretty much because of biology which means she will have no agency in her storyline.
Yes, I would hate that too. I think writers like doing the story where a character struggles against their biology/their urges because they think it makes the character less morally culpable and hence more innocent. Even though I'm not the greatest fan of Reign turning evil to protect her daughter or as revenge for her daughter, to me that would still be preferable, if she walks into evilness with her eyes open, because she values her daughter that high.
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I think Kreisberg just isn't aware of female characters at all, especially ones who don't wear masks. Even if they are supposed to be the leading lady of the show.
That seems like an odd thing to say since this very page has quotes from an interview where AK talk about Sam/Reign. I remember him talking extensively talking about Alex too in the past. By comparison I remember very little in regards to spoilers for James or Winn from their point of view, even though it seems likely that James love interest will be Reign. This is something that could very easily already be teased at from James point of view. Like him putting his heart out there again, but will it be with the right person. Winn could have been teased as him reacting to Kara's darker lease on life and being among the people who fight to connect her to her humanity.
If Reign ends up being a somewhat close copy of the Davis story (with James as the Chloe), that would fit in with the speculations about Mon-El being connected to the Legion of Superheroes, who on Smallville also appeared to warn Clark of Doomsday. So I'm betting Mon-El comes back to earth, sent by the Legion with future information that he is not allowed to share. Either to warn people that a big threat it coming, but they don't know who yet, they don't know that the threat will be Sam, or they can't believe it is Sam and Supergirl & Friends have to investigate to prove it. Or to argue in favor of Reign having to be killed and Supergirl and friends refusing to accept that.
If it is like Davis/Doomsday it would be like that Sam is essentially clueless and something has to trigger her into becoming Reign/being taken over by Reign. It would be an interesting dynamic if they figure out what's what before she is being triggered into it. So they KNOW she will turn evil, but it hasn't happened it, so at this point she is still totally innocent and it wouldn't really be moral to do something against her yet. They might use it to parallel Lena Luthor, everybody walking on eggshells because they all expect her to be evil and to what extent them treating her like a bomb waiting to explore will contribute to her descent.
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I'm not sure WA giving their wedding up to Olicity would feel as impactful as the Grey's Anatomy example, because the characters just don't seem as closely connected. There's also the fact that the Arrow episode airs before the Flash episode. It just seems that people would want to see the Olicity wedding on actual Arrow and similarly if WestAllen came close but decided to give it up, the fans would want to see that on Flash. So a stunt like that would make more sense if it was Flash, then Arrow.
QuoteRomance is an element in every show..and first kiss/first I love you/first time/weddings/kids are significant romantic moments shows use in their story..you said that the network cares about having a traditional, flashy wedding to promote and I showed you examples of shows on that same network where they didn't even have a traditional wedding for their main couple
Many examples you listed were in the finale of their shows. Which I see as a sign that on those shows the writers didn't really see their couples as wedding material but they still wanted the wedding in the books, so they rushed it in at the end. Shows like Gossip Girl and Vampire Diaries were essentially soap operas, where the romance WAS the plot. Not like the CW superhero shows where they have both romance and action. Because of this, I think for soap opera type shows it makes sense to keep the wedding till the end because it seems in many of those shows they feel like there is not much more story to tell if the main couple gets married, because that is the climax of the only plot they have, romance. Shows that also have action should in theory be more capable to have weddings as a sidedish and then the action plot just continues.
I don't think for the network and the "flashy wedding to promote" it matters whether the couple actually gets married, like in the Clark and Lois example. So in theory I don't think that WestAllen actually going through with it would be required. I just think not only would it be disappointing for the fans, considering it was a sizable element of the last season that WestAllen were engaged and first under the threat of Savitar and then Barry has to go into the speedforce, it would feel like a reward for sitting through such an angsty plot, and it would feel pretty annoying when there is yet another wedding fakeout, considering that Olicity already had one and as you noted, so did Lois and Clark.
And as people noted, they might use it as a springboard to bring on some of their descendants from the comics. I think a lot of writers don't really like married people on the show because they act under the prejudice that it's boring or less sexy, regardless of how many fans disagree. But if you want to do the descendants storyline anyway, they might see that as a way to answer to themselves the question: yeah, but what will they do once they get married? Maybe the writers of Flash feel like they have already told a lot of the core stories of Barry and they want to enter the more "sidekick-y" phase, like Arrow already did. And of course Arrow already found their own way to introduce fatherhood as a topic without going through the main couple for it. Again, pregnancies, especially between happy couples seems to be the kind of things many writers seem allergic to. So to them having half grown or already grown children showing up is way more attractive.
I'm not excusing their smallmindedness in that regard, I'm just pointing out that that seems to be a thing on a lot of shows.
Also, if you take up the shipper goggles for a second, Flash is still the highest rated CW show, so that alone makes any wedding of Barry's an attractive proposition from a "flashy thing to promote" POV. It's not about fairness it's about what seems likely to happen regardless of whether or not people like it.
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I think Nate had all the signs of a network pet at the beginning but by the end of the season he was no longer the Golden Boy of the show.
He didn't give me a network vibe at all, most like somebody the writers/at least one writer loves. Respectively as what does an EP count in this context?
If Klemmer says: "I loved having Nate Heywood’s discovery in Season 2. I always related to a more coming-of-age, Spider-Man type story. I guess I’m still into somebody who’s just trying to understand what their purpose is with these powers. To me, that’s juicy."
That sounds like very personal fondness for the character.
I also didn't think that he became more or less golden. He always was a bit of a screwup character and once he started dating Amaya that became a fairly significant part of the finale.
At the most the ancient Japan episode where he goes all Captain Kirk on the character of the week gave me a larger vibe, but then again, other Legends characters have had episodes like this.
To me the beginning of the season was more like his tryout phase, where they were introducing him and his powers, but him dating Amaya was them settling as "okay, this is where the character is going, this is his status within the show".
QuoteTitans’: Anna Diop Cast As Starfire
Interesting, she is 29, but not super baby faced. By comparison the actress who plays Raven is apparently 13? I wonder if the rest of the Titans will fall close to Starfire or to Raven in actor range. (if it is more that Raven will be the "baby" of the group or Starfire will be one of the "parents" or whether she will play vastly below her age).
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Nate personally confused me more, he felt more all over the place. Maybe that's to some extent the behavior of the character bleeding over, but to me it felt like a hyperactive writer trying out 5 different things with him. I think I hate Nate/Amaya a lot less than most (mostly because I was not invested in Mick/Amaya), but even I dread it when the LOT people drop hints about the potential of more Nate/Amaya in season 3.
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I've been rooting for a while for a story where Superman is at least "lost" for several years, simply because it would work as a quick explanation why Kara doesn't just call him for backup every time she encounters a more challenging foe (especially since they have moved away now from her having to prove herself and living in his shadow). Not to mention it would emphasize just how much responsibility is resting on her shoulders.
I wonder if in this crossover whether we will again have villains that are fairly standalone for the crossover, so the crossover can be watched on its own without missing too much on this front.
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I agree that the movie found a way to do it, but it still shows that it felt that just showing it from her POV wasn't considered enough. The movie felt you still needed a normal person/white guy perspective to explain to people how to feel. That's why Steve is a perfect introduction type character. If he was actually a regular love interest, like on a tv show where he shows up each episode, I'm sure their dynamic would have to be tweaked quite a bit. So to me it seems a lot of the people who go on about how much they like Diana/Steve in comparison just seem to overlap a lot with the people who really don't want any love interest at all (since to me Steve again clearly is an example of a character who doesn't actually fit permanently into Wonder Woman's life). Which okay, everybody can have their preferences. But don't claim you are genuinely comparing two relationships, when one had clearly extremely different preconditions (like being in 2,5 hour movie versus being a tv show regular and ending as soon as it started).
Frustrated Kara had her address her feelings about not getting to mentor Clark, it gave us a really cool sister scene where Alex talked about how in her childhood she tried to get Kara to like and do everything Alex liked before she learned to step back (which told us tons of things about what Alex and Kara liked as teenagers), imo hearing about the Daxamite/Krypton conflict was interesting and it would have been interesting to see it fleshed out even more. Kara frustrated leading to Kara exploring why she is frustrated and changing that is absolutely a sensible character arc. Even in the Jeremiah episode, it set up how emotionally tied Kara is Jeremiah when she's willing to have such a big blind spot and it set up her grief over him betraying everybody. We also had the opposite, Mon-El awed by all the crazy amazing things Kara can do or being upset with her. To me the ones where Kara is doing the reacting felt more personal where Kara is concerned.
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On 7.6.2017 at 5:26 PM, VCRTracking said:
Seeing Diana and Steve Trevor in the WONDER WOMAN movie I realized the main reason I didn't like the Kara/Mon-El relationship was Mon El was the one frustrating and driving Kara crazy. That's wrong. Any romance with Kara, it should be the other way around.
Kara being frustrated makes her a subject. People being frustrated with Kara makes her the object (of their frustration). Particularly in the Steve Trevor way, where he's the one providing the outsider, normal person perspective and is awed by strange, mysterious Wonder Woman and her ways. Because it suggests that Wonder Woman is still considered not to be inherently relate-able as a character and the audience has to approach her from afar and be brought close to her, through the point of view of normal, straight, white dude. It suggests that that is the audience the movie is considering and who has to be brought closer to Wonder Woman, he takes the journey of starting to like her as a representative of the audience, from the outside point of view.
SpoilerAnd he dies at the end because he has fulfilled his role of bringing the audience closer to Diana and making the audience fall in love with her, telling the audience how they should feel about her in case anybody is still unsure. This arc doesn't make as much sense on a tv show where we should be relating to the main character anyway and even if a journey like this was required that was already achieved in season 1.
Arguably the episodes where Kara is annoyed with Mon-El and tries to teach him the earth ways or is upset that he's a Daxamite were much stronger and meatier in Kara characterization because it also showed us new things about Kara.
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Has really nobody made jokes about how they add a muslim character and then she's named Isis? And presumably gets her powers from a polytheistic deity?
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I knew it because the artist has done a different picture with Mon-El in the apron. But in that group pic Winn (I'm guessing that that is supposed to be Winn) and Mon-El have exactly the same hair and almost the same face, so that probably contributes to it being distracting.
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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes
in Arrow
Maybe there's an Earth-X Olicity that is already married while earth-1 Olicity are getting married?