Paloma
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Posts posted by Paloma
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1 hour ago, Captain Carrot said:On 3/10/2023 at 10:31 AM, Paloma said:
When she dove off the boat, she presumably swam to the distant shore and whatever town was there (though looking at a map of Atlantic City, I can't figure out what that would be). The next time we see her, she is wearing normal clothes (no more sequined dress) and meeting the FBI guy in the diner. How much time went by between the swim and the diner, and where did she get the clothes?
South Jersey resident here. AC is on a barrier island and there's smaller towns on the same island. So, the issue was getting off the island, not getting out of AC. Also the bays separating the barrier islands from the mainland aren't that large. A good swimmer could easily make it. (I couldn't but someone whose father would take them out on a boat and make them swim to shore could).
The more unrealistic part was her sister's house. I've seen areas like that in towns on the mainland near AC, but everything on the island is fairly built up. However, maybe the party bus got her to the mainland and she was off the island by then.
Thanks for clarifying. I actually grew up in NJ (I guess it would be called Central--about equidistant from NYC and Philadelphia), but the only time I visited AC was when my parents took me to the Steel Pier as a child. The only thing I remember was seeing the horse dive from the tower!
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11 minutes ago, BlueSkies said:
Some of the murders as well I recall I think he heard screaming at or wasn't present? Plus all the "texts" from Rhys? Who puts Joe and Raold in the handcuffs then in episode 5 with the fire?
I can handwave the texts because he could have typed them himself (though we didn't see that), or maybe they didn't exist at all--he could have just been typing the "answers" to non-existent texts of what was actually just in his mind. Also I noticed that there was a visual effect indicating "disappearing text" each time he read one supposedly from Rhys; I originally assumed these texts were intentionally sent by Rhys to disappear after being read (like Snapchat messages), but maybe this visual effect was meant to show they were actually thoughts rather than texts.
It did seem like there were murders he was not present at, but it's possible he did them before the bodies were discovered. Not sure about the screaming--I don't remember the details of each murder in this season.
The hardest one to explain is Joe and Roald in handcuffs/chains, but if we assume that Rhys was a hallucination, either Joe was not really chained up or he made it look like he was so he would look like a victim (maybe leaving the handcuffs/chains unlocked). But that wouldn't explain why Joe didn't kill Roald (who had tried to kill him, so could be justified in Joe's mind) or why Joe would have started a fire that could have trapped them both if Kate hadn't found them. If he just wanted to look like a hero, why do it in a way that was so risky to himself? The writers better give us a plausible explanation.
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So I just happen to be editing a book about the DSM (the psychiatry diagnostic "bible") as I'm watching this, and if Joe wasn't aware that he was committing the murders and thought Rhys was real until the end of this episode, then he could have dissociative identity disorder (what used to be called multiple personality disorder). The diagnosis only requires two (though it can be more) distinct personality states; in this case Rhys the murderer is the alternate personality of Joe. Gaps in remembering important personal information and traumatic events are common in DID, as are hallucinations. If this is what the writers are going for, it's kind of an easy way out of holding Joe responsible for all the murders since he came to London, as well as keeping Marienne in the cage. I'd need to rewatch the previous episodes of this season to see if all the scenes are consistent with Rhys being a hallucination.
OTOH, I kind of like the idea that Joe was so determined to make a new start and stop killing when he moved to England that he had to hallucinate another person to continue murdering and frame Joe. I was rooting for Joe to stop being controlled for his obsessions and compulsion to kill, even though it was wrong for him to get away with murder. It's interesting that Joe has mostly been presented as a fundamentally decent guy who doesn't really want to imprison and kill people but finds himself either overcome by his obsession/compulsion to have the person he "loves" or in situations where a person "deserves" to die. So giving him a psychiatric excuse for being a murderer allows the viewer to continue seeing him as a fundamentally decent guy who was "forced" to do these evil things to save people he loved or to save himself.
I have a lot of questions about this new scenario. If Rhys has been a hallucination all along when interacting with Joe, was the hitman hired by Love's father also a hallucination? IIRC, the hitman told Joe to kill Marienne because she was the only person who knew the truth about Joe. We saw Joe resist this order and then grab Marienne's necklace just before she got on the train, to give the hitman "proof" that he killed Marienne (since Joe supposedly did not want to really kill her and wanted to keep her safe). Was the scene where he grabbed her necklace and she got on the train imagined? Did the earlier scene where Joe found Marienne in the abandoned building actually play out differently than we saw, with him capturing her and taking her to his glass cage rather than letting her go? And when did he build the cage in the abandoned subway? I don't have a good sense of how much time went by between his arriving in London and finding Marienne.
Also, if the hitman was a hallucination, how did Joe get the false papers that allowed him to start a new life and, more importantly, get hired as a professor? Were these all created by the guy in the Philippines who Joe had in the California cage but let go? I can see that guy being able to create good fake IDs, but creating a resume good enough to get you hired as a professor at a university without real references (who would normally be called) is a big stretch.
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1 hour ago, Zaffy said:
Not a big fan of this finale.
I did enjoy the season a lot, but did we have to do this all over again?
Are we gonna spend next season again with Charlie on the run?
I would much prefer if she was driving around America or even settle in a town solving crimes etc.As much as I love this show, this episode was a bit of a letdown for me also, even though I knew they had to set things up for the next season. I agree with your preference for the direction they could go, rather than yet another season of being pursued and almost being caught each episode. There were also some big things and a couple of smaller things that bugged me:
Charlie's car is so easily identifiable that the mob, especially if they have connections to corrupt cops, should be able to find her even without ATM transactions. I know it's part of her character, but it really doesn't make sense that she wouldn't trade it in or at least have it painted another color and switch license plates (though she might have to steal a plate to do that).
Presumably Sterling Sr. never had a chance to give her the $500K, and I think her wallet was in the car when Mortimer crashed in the last episode (since that's why they identified Mortimer as Charlie). So between being rescued from the hidey-hole last episode and spending the last 2 months in the hospital before being picked up by Cliff, where did she get any money for gas, food, or other basic expenses?
When she dove off the boat, she presumably swam to the distant shore and whatever town was there (though looking at a map of Atlantic City, I can't figure out what that would be). The next time we see her, she is wearing normal clothes (no more sequined dress) and meeting the FBI guy in the diner. How much time went by between the swim and the diner, and where did she get the clothes?
19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:Does Rhea Perlman always sound like Natasha Lyonne?
Now I'm waiting for a reveal that Charlie is the daughter of Beatrix Hasp, perhaps dropped off as a foundling at birth.The secret daughter reveal seems pretty unlikely, but my husband and I thought at first that Natasha was the voice of Beatrix Hasp. It is weird that their voices are so similar.
I know most people here liked the reciting of the Blues Traveler lyrics, but it felt unnatural to me because I don't know that song (though Run-Around is one of my favorite songs ever) and was trying to figure out what he was saying and why. So it did not have whatever the intended effect was on me or my husband.
Similarly, the interaction between Charlie and her previously unknown sister (who just happened to live near the casino all the way across the country from where the story started in Episode 1) felt unnatural, especially with the "ruinous" wording. It also didn't help that they looked nothing alike, though I know that lots of siblings do not. If they revisit the relationship next season, I hope the reason for the estrangement/anger becomes clearer.
Despite being bugged by these things, I am really looking forward to Season 2.
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2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:8 hours ago, South said:
When he finished the cup of rum with the pills, I hoped it would cause him to drive his sweet set of wheels off the side of a mountain road. As it turns out, I reckon he will just test hot when he PO gets his hands on him.
Didn’t Trey drink the rum with the blue knockout pills after he sacrificed his $300K yellow car to the bottom of a cliff with “Morty” in it (after he knocked her unconscious on the steering wheel)?*
Hopefully someone like Monk will show up to bury Trey with evidence for killing Chloe, Jimmy, and who knows else he threw down his serial killer hole.
Didn't Trey take either Jimmy's truck or Charlie's car to drive back to his home? But he stopped somewhere a bit short of his place and got out of the car when the pills started taking effect, staggering around until he managed to get to his gate and get indoors just in time to answer the PO's call. I may be misremembering, but it doesn't seem likely he could have made it back home on foot.
Wouldn't Trey's ankle monitor in Charlie's hand, as well as any physical evidence of Trey's presence in and around the motel, be enough to tie him to the murders? That's not even counting Morty being found in his car near the other bodies--he could claim she stole it, but if that were true how would he explain Jimmy's truck or Charlie's car (whichever one it was) being near his house (and there would probably be physical evidence of him driving that car or truck).
Once again I am probably overthinking this.
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7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:
Chloe was too out of it for stabby-stick climbing the second time, but it didn't matter because we saw the light on the ankle monitor in her hand.
So if we assume that she (along with the dead guy and Chloe's bones) was found and pulled out of the hidey-hole by the police because of the ankle monitor, why didn't the news report mention her--that is, say that they found an unidentified unconscious victim along with the dead guy and Chloe's bones, with another dead victim in the car? It wouldn't have changed Charlie's relief at being "dead" when she heard the report, since they had misidentified Mortimer as Charlie.
Maybe we are supposed to assume that the reporter made a mistake or that she added a mention of the unidentified victim being taken to the hospital later; the other explanation is that the local police were in cahoots with Sterling and intentionally concealed the discovery of an unconscious victim. Either way, I don't like it. I don't mind misleading clues if they ultimately pay off, but this just feels like sloppy writing.
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9 hours ago, susannot said:
Charlie dug herself out of the hole the first time using her stabby-stick which was Chloe's bone. She was not thrown into the hole again but was stabbed and left for dead by Trey in the motel, next to the other (dead) guy.
I don't think your second sentence is right, because when the camera focused on her and the dead guy, it looked the same as when she was in the hidey-hole the first time. If that's where they were, I guess she could have picked up another one of Chloe's bones to use as stabby-stick to dig out.
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I was very confused by this episode, even after rewatching key scenes. Here are my main questions: How did Charlie get out of the hole by herself with a broken (or badly injured) leg and a knife in her chest? And how did she get to the hospital? Or was she found by the police after the parole officer got a location on the ankle monitor? Either way, why wasn't her rescue mentioned in the TV news report? Whether she was still in the hole or got out of it herself, she couldn't have gone very far, so presumably her presence as a victim of serious assault in the area would have been mentioned (even as a Jane Doe) when the news reported that there were two more recent murder victims found along with the long-missing Chloe. Also, the wording of the news report seemed to be intentionally misleading--it sounded like there were two recent murder victims found WITH Chloe's bones, but Morty's body was in the car that went over the cliff and not in the hidey-hole.
I guess it's possible that the local police were in cahoots with Sterling (the one who wants Charlie dead) and covered up the news of her being found with or near the other victims, told the hospital she was a Jane Doe, and let Sterling's hit man know where she was. But even if that's the case, there should have been a couple of clues dropped to how it went down. I don't need it all spelled out or even all realistic, but this episode was not as clever or tight as the others.
With the repeated scenes of Trey not tipping the delivery driver, I thought the driver might end up murdering Trey. Also, I noticed that in addition to "NO TIP" being shown on the app, there was a sound effect that played each time it showed that message--something like a disappointed or booing exclamation.
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9 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:
It was an homage to Phil Tippett. I think the Orpheus head may have been a sculpture of his face? He even created all the maquettes shown in the episode and filmed the stop motion scenes.
I loved everything about this episode! This was my favorite so far.
Someone was asking about how Laura knew Arthur removed the incriminating piece of film, there was a close-up of the film when Laura removed it from the fire showing that there was a new splice between the leader and the middle of the film scene. Arthur had removed the sequence of Laura turning off the light. (And for those wondering, safety film takes a while to actually burn, so that was totally accurate. I have film reels that have been in a fire and were only slightly damaged.)
Thanks for this information. I hadn't heard of Phil Tippett, but now that I looked him up it makes sense. I also appreciate your clarifying what happened with the film Arthur threw in the fire. I was confused about that because I didn't know why it wasn't burning quickly and because I didn't know what made Laura take the reel out of the fire and look at it. I thought maybe she took it out because she was frustrated that it wasn't burning up or she was suspicious that he did not give her the right reel.
With this show you really have to pay attention to every scene to get the clues. In addition to my confusion about the burning scene, I did not notice at all, until Charlie said something, that there were strips of film in the Orpheus head (or what I kept thinking of as the Medusa).
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11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:
I wonder if perhaps these plot holes might have been inserted deliberately to poke fun at B movies.
And also an homage to B Horror movies?I don't know if the plot holes were inserted deliberately, but the episode definitely felt like a humorous homage to B horror movies. In fact, when we first saw the workshop I asked my husband, "Is this like Ray Harryhousen's stuff?" I generally didn't watch old B horror movies and wasn't that familiar with RH, but my husband is a big scifi fan and watched a lot of those movies, and he agreed that Arthur's creations were probably an homage to RH.
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7 hours ago, bunnyblue said:
(Max jumping to his death so the poisoning was never discovered)
That bugged me, too, for a couple of reasons: (1) jumping from a high place to rocks below is likely to be a painful death (if you don't die instantaneously), and Laura had already said that his death from poison would not be painful and would be like going to sleep (of course, he had no reason to trust that she was telling the truth); and (2) if he stayed to die in her home, she would have had to figure out how to dispose of the body. I guess she could have dragged his body to the railing and thrown it over, then claimed it was suicide, but that might not be so easy and might still leave evidence if anyone investigated.
On 2/24/2023 at 8:33 PM, shapeshifter said:Are we to assume that Max intentionally fell face first to prevent Laura from using his face to login to the files?
On 2/24/2023 at 10:30 PM, kay1864 said:That was my take, since she said she had all of his passwords.
Maybe we're supposed to assume this as his reason, but as the poison started to work would he really be thinking clearly and quickly enough to realize she would need his face to log in and so he needs to ruin his face? Obviously I'm overthinking this, but it did take me out of the story when we saw the murder play out.
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My husband and I must be the only senior citizens watching this show, because the best/funniest line for us was when Riker said to Picard "Terrific. Your hands are stiff. My knees are killing me. So long as we don't have to move or shoot, we should be fine." But aside from relating to the difficulties of getting older, we loved almost everything about this episode aside from Raffi's being undercover in the typical sci-fi seamy pleasure district. Not sure what to think about Crusher's son (I can't remember if he actually said he was her son or we just assumed this), but willing to give this character and plot point a chance.
Seasons 1 and 2, which we watched for the first time just recently, were mostly a fail for us. Hopefully this season will be better, but I have a feeling it will mostly appeal to nostalgic older folks like us.
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On 2/17/2023 at 11:52 PM, Artsda said:
Riker sounds like he's being a jerk at home? Deanna and their kid happy he's gone.
I didn't get that impression. I thought it was more about Deanna wanting him to stay home with her and their daughter instead of running around the galaxy taking unnecessary risks. Of course, she understands why he wants to go with Picard, but she and Kestra have already have a big loss (death of Will and Deanna's son) and are afraid of also losing husband/dad.
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On 5/5/2022 at 5:16 PM, salaydouk said:
Okay so if Picard remembers the bullet holes in the wall or the stories of them in the wall... Then why didn't he also have stories about bodies in the chateau walls!?!?!?
Maybe he thought they were weird scuptures that were created as part of the original construction? Ridiculous, I know, but no more ridiculous than some of the other plot holes.
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On 5/3/2022 at 1:19 AM, Llywela said:
It all sounds like a huge mess, to be honest, and while I suspect the season will play a lot more smoothly when watched as a marathon rather than week-by-week, I feel like the characters have been very poorly served and at this stage nothing can redeem that.
My husband and I recently started watching the series as a marathon (2-3 episodes a night) and think it is a mess. There have been some interesting characters and plot points, but watching it this way rather than week by week has not made it play more smoothly. Still, we decided to stick it out through the first 2 seasons because we heard that season 3 is much better.
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9 hours ago, kwnyc said:
Is Nick Nolte really having that kid of trouble with his voice and speech, or is it...ACTING?
My first thought was that his appearance and speech were caused by his past troubles with alcohol and drugs, but at least as of 2018 he was clean and doing well. So the voice and speech may be at least partly related to age--he is around 80 now.
https://people.com/books/nick-nolte-2002-mug-shot-new-memoir/
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On 5/3/2022 at 6:40 PM, millennium said:
However, I do agree with you re: the wasting of Picard as a character. It feels to me that Picard is out of his element. He's a commander, a leader. Yet he has no ship to command and his control over the other members of his ragtag crew is apparently very limited. He 's always been top dog, now he's kind of a nobody. He references Kirk's history more than his own. As the former Locutis, he has had ample opportunity to have insights into the Borg Queen's scheme; instead he's going on about Kirk slingshotting around the sun and encountering Gary Seven. Picard's not a captain here -- he's a Trekker.
Another problem is that he is not surrounded by people who regard and respect him as a commander (i.e., the Next Generation crew). Rios dissed him as a robot, Seven seems to have stipulated to his authority, Raffi is too close to him to be in awe of his abilities -- she calls him J.L., for cripes sake. Jurati is ... Jurati. Compare their demeanor with the instant recognition of the real Jean Luc Picard by Riker and Troi when he stopped by their hacienda last season.
To me, Picard seems like a man without a country right now. And kind of lost.
* It just occurred to me -- maybe that's what getting old is like.
I agree with all of this, and my husband (who does not read the forum) echoed your last sentence while we've been catching up on this show. In fact, he thought that "getting old" and the associated physical and psychological issues, such as increasing infirmity and losing one's sense of identity as a respected professional, is really the theme of the series (even if not the intention of the writers). Maybe he sees it that way (and I mostly agree) because we are in our 70s and retired, and for both of us our identities were very much tied to our professional accomplishments and the respect and admiration that others had for us as, respectively, VP of a large research group (him) and editor (me). People often say, "Retirement must be great. You don't have to work, and you have time to do whatever interests you." And to some extent that's true, but it's also easy to waste much of that free time and to feel like you don't have as much value as you did when you were working. Think how much greater an effect that must have on someone with such a stellar (pun intended) career as Picard!
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On 3/23/2020 at 8:43 AM, Florinaldo said:
Which does not prevent them from stupidly assigning the most naive and trusting one to watch over the prisoner; sure enough she almost fell for his persuasion, only to be prevented by Sutra who eventually did her in anyway.
Catching up 3 years later (we've binged most of the first season in 3 days), I'm wondering if Sutra deliberately (not stupidly) assigned the most naive and trusting one to watch the prisoner, figuring that he would knock her out or kill her to escape. That would still allow Sutra to convince the rest to go along with her plan without having to kill the synth herself (though I'm sure she did kill the synth without any moral qualms).
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On 2/16/2023 at 10:10 PM, shapeshifter said:On 2/16/2023 at 9:24 PM, phalange said:
When Thor said it would be okay because they're already dead, I was like, that's a good point, and then I remembered that the ghosts could get sucked off at any time so Flower's fear is still a possibility.
——except at least Thor will never leave.
I'm sure this was mentioned in an earlier episode, but I forget--why can't Thor get sucked off?
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On 2/9/2023 at 7:20 PM, Chaos Theory said:
Nadia is going to be something in the plot. Possibly one of Joe’s victims or maybe someone he “saves”.
I'm hoping she does not become a victim. Even though she's not a child and there's not a big age difference between them, the dynamic between her and Joe reminds me of his caring relationship with the neighbor's kid from the first season (I think) and the younger sister of the landlord or super at Joe's apartment complex in California (second season?). (I can't remember either one's name.)
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On 2/9/2023 at 12:12 PM, Spartan Girl said:
Congratulations, Marianne, you are the smartest character on this show.
Well, she is smart to try to get away from him but not so smart to tell him she knows he's a murderer when they are alone in what looks like an abandoned space. I guess she thought that he was going to kill her anyway so she might as well try confronting him with the truth...which apparently worked, since he wanted to prove to her that he wouldn't hurt her.
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On 2/9/2023 at 1:24 PM, akg said:
The fanboy cop called for back up after he heard their confession and they showed several officers coming in the back of the theater as the play was going on. They must have decided to wait until the end to make the arrests.
Did you notice that the cop standing in the back during Kathleen's final monologue seemed to wipe away a tear? I guess this really was the best performance of her career (and most likely her last one)--even Charlie seemed moved listening to the monologue.
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On 12/23/2022 at 12:30 AM, Bastet said:
I've finished the series, and loved it. Season three was not as consistently excellent as the first two, but it was still terrific. And I loved the series finale. The extended sequence of everyone in the voting booth was just perfect, and it could easily have ended there, but I liked Chelsea Clinton finally getting the letter so we can learn what the Derry girls said in inviting her to hang with them back then. The delight with which she received it as an adult was perfect.
Totally agree with this and the rest of your post, and want to add how perfect the Cranberries song was for the ending. I haven't read the earlier comments yet, but I'm sure many others have commented on the excellent use of music throughout. I could watch the series again just to listen more closely to the music.
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20 minutes ago, akg said:32 minutes ago, possibilities said:
Honestly, the way a lot of neurotypicals give hints and don't say what they actually mean, could be considered way more rude, downright cowardly, and a kind of code that is inconsiderate, when you look at it from the other direction.
I have no idea if I'm on the spectrum or not but I would definitely prefer it if people were more clear in their communication (especially my mother).
I'm pretty sure I'm not on the spectrum, but I often drive my husband crazy with my passive-aggressive way of communicating my feelings--a form of communication that is all too common in my neurotypical relatives.
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S04.E07: Good Man, Cruel World
in You
I'm inclined to think that Kate's dad does know who Joe is--not sure if he knows the extent of Joe's murdering, but at a minimum he has good reason to be suspicious just based on news reports that he or his investigator could have easily found once they had Joe's real name. Being such a rich and powerful corporate executive and being protective of Kate, it's not surprising her dad would check out any boyfriend not from "their world."
However, I'm not sure that Kate's dad really told Joe to murder Rhys. If he did, the motive is unclear (or maybe I missed something in the conversation, real or imagined).