NorthangerAbby

I'll join you here because I can't stand Pepper. He's one of the only MF characters I don't enjoy and I'm glad he's not around more often. The only other ones I almost never like are Andy and Lily. I feel actual guilt about not liking Lily, but I can't help it. Luke and Manny are iffy for me, depending a lot on the episode. I don't know if I've seen him in other roles, but I agree that the casting is part of it for me. The character doesn't come across as authentically sweet and does seem a little smarmy. I completely understand why many dislike Cam. I wouldn't usually like him and am not sure what it says about my taste in characters that I do! I also really understand not liking Claire even though my UO is that she's one of my three favorites, along with Phil and Alex. Julie Bowen does have a brittle quality and Claire can be difficult to like, but somehow that's part of what I find intersting about her...? She just resonates with me. I think of her a little like an adult Hermione Granger, high strung, competitive, overachieving, serious by nature and not really 'likable' but loving and pasisonate underneath. A lot of Claire's flaws stem from how much she cares about everyone and everything. I like her unexpected creepy side, her love of horror movies, Halloween and so on. It adds a fun layer to the character. I also don't know that I've ever been as touched and entertained by a TV marriage as I am by Claire and Phil's. Another possibly unpopular opinion is that I find Gloria and Jay's relationship really touching too, and I really did not expect to like them when I first started watching the show. I just wanted to say it's a pleasure posting here. Everyone is so kind, elqouent and receptive to other opinions.

This is still one of my two or three favorite TV shows, and I've watched hundreds because I have no life. It's one of those shows I'm so attached to that I can acknowledge the validity of most of the criticism without it affecting how much I still love spending time with these characters every week. Season 1 seems to be many fans' pick for the best season, but I don't even think it's in my top five. I didn't fall in love with the show until the second season. Alex is one of my three favorite characters for reasons I tried to explain in the Favorite Characters thread. I cared way too much about Alex x Sanjay. I can't get into Haley x Andy. I really want to. I love the idea of Haley with such a sweet and dorky guy. When they're actually on screen, though, I just don't see it. Andy is one of the few MF characters I don't love. I don't know if it's the casting or the way he's written, but even though normally I love his type, I find myself not liking most of his scenes. My favorite seasons are probably 2, 4 and 6. Based on my pattern, I'm still holding out higher hopes for Season 8. Not sure if this is very unpopular, but I don't like Luke and Manny's "bromance" the past few seasons. It doesn't feel authentic to me and they make each other less likable. I'm always relieved when Luke's storylines are with Phil or even his siblings that week and when Manny is with Gloria and Jay.

I'm glad to see love for Claire and Alex. They're hard characters to like in a way but close to my heart. They may be my favorites after Phil. I've already talked a little about why I love Claire. As for Alex, her flaws make sense to me. She's not as enthusiastic about family time because she's more introverted and needs more alone time and space than the others do to feel her best. I really relate, lol. She doesn't feel she fits in very well with her family, and spending time with them is a painful reminder. The smugness can be seen both as real pride in her intelligence but also someone who's insecure in most areas and needs desperately to feel good about what she sees as one of her only strengths. Her sharpness and irritability is a common defense mechanism for those with anxiety, which we already know she suffers from. She seems to think people won't like her and will want to stay away, so she beats them to the punch and gives them a reason to feel that way before she has a chance to become too hopeful and attached. She's probably the MF character I'm most similar to.

bkwrm, I will definitely read them all within the next couple of weeks. I thought we could use a thread for fanfiction and just created one for anyone who is interested: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/52923-smallville-fanfiction/

I thought it would be fun to have a thread devoted to Smallville fanfiction. We can share links and recommendations, talk about the fics we've written or might want to write in the future, and maybe even consult with each ther about fanfic writing problems we encounter along the way.

Another less popular opinion I've forgotten to mention is that I actually like Clark a lot as a character. He's stiff and awkward, but that's kind of endearing and, as has been pointed out, works when you consider that he's an alien. He was more likable through the first half of the series than the second, but in my experience that's true of most characters in most series. There are so many "anti-heroes" and reforming bad boys on tv shows that I actually appreciate this show centering around a guy who is so decent and tries so earnestly to do the right thing. He has flaws but is a refreshingly different type of character and one that I liked watching even though he could be annoyingly dense.

Could you please link me to your fics so that I can read them and give positive feedback? I always wanted to write one where Lex is redeemed but probably won't be able to figure out a coherent plot lol. I know you don't like Clois, but aside from that one ship we both love most of the same characters so I'm sure I'll love whatever you've written. You all have me thinking a lot about Chloe, Lois and their similarities and differences. I love both characters but I do very much understand the point of view that Lois is a more conceited, jaded and abrasive version of Chloe in certain ways. It's particularly interesting to me that they made Chloe so passionate about journalism while also giving her a lot of qualities that viewers associate with Lois Lane. I have to admit that it does make me wonder if the writers initially planned to make Chloe the actual Lois Lane of this series. At the least it seems as if they may have wanted to keep their options open so that they could go that route if the series didn't last long enough for them to introduce a character named Lois Lane.

I am about to start rewatching the fifth season in part because I know it's a favorite around here and want to pay more careful attention to it. I am especially interested in the idea that it's the shippiest season for Chlark and will pay attention to that this time. I will probably love this season even more if I skip some of the scenes about Jonathan's political campaign and instead concentrate on what may be the last truly great season for Lex. I came across this video on youtube and thought other people here who share my love for Chloe you might enjoy it- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE0ppIhhiYk

I feel badly that my previous post may have made it sound like I don't love Chloe, so I wanted to clarify that I really love her. If asked to name just two favorite Smallville characters, I'd probably pick her and Lex. I don't necessarily ship her romantically with Clark, but I love their friendship. I think Chloe has a certain degree of chemistry with almost everyone - Clark, Oliver, Jimmy, Davis, and even Lex. Like others have said, she's so lively and vibrant that she just sparks with whoever she's sharing scenes with. I love JH's Arrow. He and Chloe were one of my favorite things about the later seasons. I haven't been around long enough to know if the following opinions are unpopular, but I figured I would throw them out there since it's just fun to talk about this show. The first three seasons are my favorites and the ones I watch the most. I'm not sure if it's just sentiment, but there's something about them that still gets to me. I love the characters so much then and freak-of-the-week stories make me so happy. I prefer the show centered around the Kent farm and even cheesy school stuff rather than Metropolois and The Daily Planet. The biggest reason I love the first three seasons may be that I love when Clark and Lex are allies more than they're adversaries and Lex is still so ethically grey rather than villainous.The writing for some of those Lex x Lionel and Lex x Clark scenes is so great then and one reason I feel like the show is much better overall than most people seem to. It's interesting that I'm a Lois fan but still think the seasons before her arrival are my favorites. Maybe I love her less than I thought, lol. I love every season and own them all, but if I could save just three, I think the first three are the ones I'd grab. The general consensus seems to be that Welling's acting improves as the series progresses, but I love him the most at the beginning. The writing for Clark was probably better then as well. To me Welling worked better as an awkward and emotionally repressed high school student than a reporter and superhero. I roll my eyes through the scenes about Jonathan running for senate. I know the show did worse stories but that one just annoys me for some reason. I was hoping he'd drop out or lose. I also wasn't that sad when he died despite enjoying him at the beginning of the series. The pilot of this show is one of my top four or five favorite pilots of any series, and I've watched hundreds because I'm a television addict with no life at all. Lionel x Martha could have been really interesting. It's warped and I understand why some hate the thought of it, but it could potentially have been a lot of fun to watch. I like both Lois and Oliver but didn't like Lois x Oliver and hated when the show made it seem like he hadn't gotten over her even a couple of seasons later. Their relationship didn't seem to have any substance. I can't remember who else said this and can't quote properly anyway, but I enjoyed Clark x Alicia too. It's one of the season 3 episodes I've seen the most and I was happy when she returned in season 4. Lana x Lex > Lana x Clark . Also, I don't hate Lana, but I do think the writing for her was worse than for any other character except poor Pete. Every time I watch the show again, there's a tiny part of me that thinks maybe this time Lex will be redeemed. Every...damn...time. On balance, I thought Lex was a better friend to Clark than Clark was to Lex those first few seasons. As you all can tell, I'm a big fan and think the show deserves more love or at least less hate among viewers and critics. Not saying any of the complaints here or elsewhere are invalid, but for me the good outweighs the bad.

This made me laugh so much more than any part of the revival. The only part that came close was when Chris referred to Rory as a "force of nature." I know that wasn't supposed to be funny, but it made me wonder if he was confusing her with someone else.

It's hard to pick because I love most of them so much, and as someone else noted, it depends partly on how much I love their relationship with the characters they're interacting with in a particular episode. If I could keep just four, I would choose Phil, Alex, Cameron and Claire. I thought of picking five but had so many characters tied for the last spot. Phil x Claire is one of the best relationships I've ever seen on television. I love the reversal of traditional gender traits, with Phil as the openly emotional, sentimental, sweet and nurturing partner and parent while Claire is a little sterner, more ambitious, competitive, responsible, assertive and other characteristics people still sometimes expect more from males, even now in 2017. But they're both more than that as well. Claire gets excited and pasionate about random things you wouldn't expect and despite her more serious nature values fun, adventure and happiness for herself and her kids, thanks in part to Phil. Phil is much more insightful and smart than he may initially appear, and he's able to be a firm parent when needed. He's not the clueless "man-child" that someone might conclude. The way they interact with each other gives me life. Their marriage isn't a false ideal but is real and so loving. I'm a little like a less organized, less ambitious Claire and this show makes me wish I had a Phil. Thinking about all this makes me wonder what people's favorite relationships on the show are? Platonic or romantic. It's harder for me to pick least favorite characters than favorite ones because at this point it's hard for me to imagine the show without any of them. They all come together in a way that makes the show what it is for me. I wouldn't miss Lily that much, but now I can't envision Cam and Mitchell without her. This may be unpopular, but I've grown to love Gloria and would miss her a lot. I also think her presence makes Jay easier to like for me than if we knew him only as a parent to Claire and Mitchell. I hope other people here still love the show enough to talk about it. I love even the newer seasons and still watch episodes almost every day.

When I saw the title of this thread, my first thought was honestly that it would be much easier for me to list the few things I wouldn't change about the revival. I agree with everything mentioned here so far. I haven't been here enough to figure out how to properly use the quote function, but I would quote every post if I could. I'll add that the humor was possibly my biggest disappointment. Through most of the original series, I could always count on finding some scenes witty and entertaining even when I was feeling less than satisfied with the general characterizations and storytelling. In the revival, nearly all of the attempts at humor either crossed the line from sharp and snarky to obnoxious or cruel or were just unfunny. The two middle episodes in particular seemed to confuse straining far too hard to be random and quirky purely for the sake of being random and quirky with real humor. That problem sometimes popped up in the original series as well, but it seemed much more pronounced here. It might be because some humor was needed to balance out the more overtly depressing, bitter and pessimistic aspects of the revival, so the lack of successful comedy was more noticeable than it might have been in most of the original series' episodes. Improving the quality of the comedic material would be high on my list of things to change. This revival really needed it. I don't ship Luke and Lorelai because I have trouble believing their affection is more than platonic and feel they've been shown as too different and too problematic to work, but I was optimistic that the revival could give Amy Sherman-Palladino the chance to correct some of the mistakes she made with them during the last few seasons of the show. Instead the revival read like Amy is still resentful over having to put these two together at all. She seems really resistant to writing romantic relationships that are functional and healthy, let alone happy. Writing these two middle aged adults as still communicating with the maturity of high school freshmen first experiencing a relationship but with a lot less passion and happines than most of those high school kids would exhibit was just frustrating to watch. The ultimate message with Luke x Lorelai seemed to be that they were settling for a relationship lacking in communication and real romantic love, but since no one's dreams in life really come true anyway and they were used to each other by now, they may as well stay together. I'm sure that Amy wouldn't say that's what she was attempting to show with Luke and Lorelai's story, but that's how it came across to me and others I know who watched the revival. BTW, what is with Luke not having the brain power to grasp the concept of surrogacy? He was never exactly the most intellectual, clever or cerebral of characters, but nor was he quite the dumb oaf he seemed through a lot of this revival. So I would write Luke and Lorelai as either not together, having realized they're better off as friends, or as together in a relationship that seemed happier and more mature. They could have still had conflicts and obstacles but be shown as dealing with them in a much more grown up way. It seems like they regressed even further back individually and as a unit. I don't even have the energy to write about Rory, Logan or their relatinship except to say that if Amy's goal was to make those of us who used to ship them regret it, she succeeded in my case. I agree with everyone who would eliminate Paul and Odette. I didn't need their help to make Rory and Logan even less sympathetic. I don't know how to fix or change how off it all felt and how these four overlong revival episodes managed to make me feel disillusioned about the entire series except possibly to wish that the people in charge could go back in time and decide not to do this revival in the first place. Or, at the very least, to cut that entire musical.

I started to explain why in the unpopular opinions thread, but Clark x Lois is my ultimate pairing for this series. I think their differences complement each other perfectly and might be the only person around here, though not in other places, who saw a lot of passion and chemistry between them. They are both people who put on fronts for different reasons but at their core they do love and understand each other like no one else. I feel like they challenge each other to be better but don't try to change each other, either. I love the friendship between Clark and Chloe but am glad they never became more than that and prefer Chloe once she opens her heart to other people. I like Lana and agree with the person who said she and Jason had a good chemistry before his true self was revealed but I skip most Clana scenes now. At first Chloe x Oliver had the feel of writers desperately shoving the two remaining single main characters together, but I grew really fond of them and felt like they had a terrific connection. Lois and Lana could have had a very interesting friendship where both learned from each other if the writers had let them. Lana could have encouraged Lois to let herself be softer and Lana could have been inspired to be more direct without worrying about whether everyone will like her. It's a shame that wasn't explored. The Chloe and Lois bond felt forced sometimes, especially since Chloe was often written as just a less world weary version of Lois who happens to be good with computers. Clark and Oliver ended up with a really nice friendship. I would have liked to see a less jealous and more alive Jimmy Olsen in their group too. A male character who's so eager, open and emotional could have added a great energy.

These forums are a tough place for anyone who doesn't ship Chloe x Clark and likes Lois or Lana. At first I didn't even want to post but then realized discussion forums are better when people are allowed to express dissenting views. I love Lois and love Clark x Lois. She is very hard to like initially, and that is part of what makes her a complex and interesting character. She has a lot of characteristics that people usually praise in men but are wary of in women, like ambition, assertiveness, self-confidence, boldness, directness and so on. I'm not claiming that's why people dislike her, but it's probably one reason why she can put people off. She's a woman who lives fully in the present, which is why I think she's great complement to Clark, who often clings to the past or worries about the future. She's got a huge heart and a lot of what makes her abrasive can be seen as attempts to hide her vulnerabilities. Lois is terrified of being vulnerable. Clark wasn't in love with Chloe. He just wasn't. As many young people who are close friends with someone of the opposite sex do, he had moments where he thought he might have more than platonic feelings for her and wondered if he was attracted to her, but she was nearly always the aggressor and always felt so much more than he did or could. Unreciprocated love is hard to go through in life and sometimes hard to watch as a viewer but it's something that many of us can relate to. I guess it's unpopular given the general tenor of these threads to think of Chloe's love for Clark as unreciprocated, but that's how I see it. He has moments when he thinks that he might care for her as more than a friend, but ultimately it can't even be compared to his love for Lana and then Lois. I like Chloe, but the character was much better served by moving on from Clark and allowing herself to develop feelings for other people. I enjoy watching her a lot more during the latter half of the series. I love every season of this series. They all have their share of issues and episodes that I'll skip, but I think the show is much better than critics give it credit for.

https://www.romper.com/p/17-ways-luke-on-gilmore-girls-is-actually-the-worst-but-should-totally-still-be-with-lorelai-7110 I wouldn't mind that they look so mismatched if they didn't act so mismatched. Like people here have said, it's hard to imagine two people less compatible. We already saw what they were like in a relationship, and it was so awkward that it almost gave me secondhand embarrassment to watch. As friends they were fine, but romantically they are the poster child for why people who are opposites may attract at first but usually don't make each other happy. Luke and Lorelai don't bring out each other's good traits, exacerbate each other's many bad traits, don't appear to click emotionally, intellectually or physically, can't communicate at all, seem to have to make major efforts just to tolerate each other and more often annoy the hell out of each other, keep major secrets from each other, and look and act miserable through almost their entire train wreck of a relationship. But other than those minor problems they were a perfect pair lol. The article I tried to link above concludes with the popular sentiment that they should be together, which I don't agree with, but it does express the very unpopular opinion that Luke is a lot more problematic than most fans make him out to be. It makes the same points that a lot of the people here have, so I thought the few who dislike Luke might find it comforting to know we're not alone. I especially like how it points out that Luke's big chuppah and ice rink gestures to show he cares are the kind of things that you get a handful of times a year and don't make up for how awful his company would be if you had to be with him daily. The article also has a line about how Max was the best, which is also an unpopular opinion that a few others here have mentioned.