[S01.E10: We Are Gone]

6 hours ago, Fellaway said:

I decided to do a rewatch of the entire series and started with Episode 1 tonight.  Right before that first dinner on the Terror with Crozier, Franklin, et. al., Crozier and Edward have this conversation:

Edward:  But is there anything special you require, sir?

Crozier:  More open water, clear to the Pacific.  And then we can go home.

Edward:  We're close, sir.

Crozier:  Careful how you use that word, "close."  This is the Discovery Service. "Close" is nothing.  It's worse than nothing.  It's worse than anything in the world.

For anyone, like me, who was wondering what Edward meant by "Close" in this ep.  

Finding this conversation made me admire this series even more.  The attention to meaningful detail in this series is so astonishingly wonderful.  It's such a rare commodity in TV these days.  I wonder what else I shall find...

That conversation in the first episode was actually between Jopson and Crozier, not Edward and Crozier. Nevertheless, I agree it was a callback to that conversation, for the audience at least. It really is wonderful how much care they put into pretty much every aspect of the show. It's incredibly multilayered and eminently rewatchable. It's a fanboy/fangirl's dream. LOL

[The True Story of Franklin's Expedition]

I started listening to the audiobook of the novel again and am up to Chapter 16. It's pretty good and densely detailed, but so far I like the show, and especially the characters, better than the novel.

Since the thread is marked for spoilers, I won't hide my comments here, but to be on the safe side I'll leave some spoiler space.

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The biggest difference are the characters. They're all pretty racist, including Goodsir, who refers to the Inuit as savages; he and either Dr. Stanley (who's not a dick) or Dr. McDonald are the ones who dump Lady Silence's father down the fire hole and he speaks nonchalantly about it, which was a bit jarring. I realize their attitudes are reflective of the times, but I like the show's approach better. They are still men of their times on the show, but there's some variability in their points of view which I found realistic. Of course there would be men like Goodsir, who would be curious and fascinated by foreign cultures, for intellectual reasons at least. Of course there were men with extensive enough experience they would learn to communicate with the indigenous people and even have respect for their ability to survive such a harsh environment. Crozier doesn't speak the Netsilik tongue. Maybe the real Crozier wasn't one of those people and that's why the author characterized him in the way that he did (I've got to read his biography).

Crozier refers to Lady Silence/Silna as a witch, wench and a bitch. She (and another Native woman in one of Franklin's backstories) is rather sexualized, or at the very least objectified--both he and Franklin are, shall we say, distracted when they accidentally see her naked, Franklin especially. In the book, these two women are the only naked women he's ever seen. How the heck does a man who's been married twice and fathered a child never see either of his wives naked? I knew they were uptight about sex back then, but I didn't realize it was that bad. Sheesh. Franklin also comes off as a bit of a simpleton and is clearly incompetent. He's incompetent where it counts on the show as well, but I don't get the sense he's completely clueless so much as too arrogant to see beyond personal ambition.

Silna's tongue is already missing when we meet her, which I think was a misstep on the part of the author. It makes it extra difficult for any kind of character development, not only for her but for Crozier and the other men who interact with her. So far she seems to be more or less a prop or a plot device rather than a character in her own right. Of course this could change as I get further along, but right now it feels like a missed opportunity.

It reminds me a bit of the Lord of the Rings novels vs. the movies. I have been a fan of the books since I was a kid, but I prefer the characterization in the movies for several characters, notably Aragorn and Boromir. In the books, Boromir is much less sympathetic, so his sacrifice doesn't really mean all much to me. Aragorn comes off entitled and egotistical, so I never really feel like he's worthy of following beyond it being his "destiny". Bleh. You gotta earn my loyalty. ;)

Of course we wouldn't have the show if it weren't for the novel so I can't be too hard on it. It certainly provided a great framework for the series, so for that alone it has my respect. Granted, I'm not very far into the story yet, but from what I've heard so far, I feel the show's adaptation captured the essence of the novel and improved upon it.

I will say Tuunbaq is much more interesting and scary in the novel. I like how he not only blends into the environment, but is part of the landscape itself. The first thing you see are the eyes, only you're not sure what they are at first. By the time you figure out they are eyes, it's already too late.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the novel, though I am glad I saw the show first. One disadvantage to listening to it rather than reading it is the voices are so different. I can't help but associate the actors' voices with their respective characters, so hearing things like Fitzjames lisping and Crozier growling is kind of weird. I'd love to hear a version with the actors doing the voices, but the chances of that happening are virtually nil, I'm sure.

[The Rewatch]

I'm watching episode one as I write. After seeing the scene in the finale of Ross and the interpreter with the Netsilik leader in the finale, I wanted to rewatch the scene which started it all. Naturally I got sucked in, so here I am again. LOL

This time through I'm going to pay special attention to the theme song. Someone mentioned in the episode thread that the showrunners said there were variations to the theme throughout. I personally only remember it sounding different twice--in the 6th or 7th episode (I think) and in the final one--but with as much care as they've put into just about every other aspect of the show, it wouldn't surprise me if there were subtle differences I missed.

I feel like such a fangirl sometimes gushing over the show, but I just can't help myself. It's one of those series that's even better when you watch it again; honestly, I think you could watch it ten times and pick up something new every single time. Knowing something about the real expedition ratchets it up another notch. It's Oscar caliber, if TV shows were eligible for such awards. I really, really hope it gets the recognition it so richly deserves.

[S01.E10: We Are Gone]

14 hours ago, jnymph said:

I noticed the music shift as well.  It was beautiful, and how sad that the composer Marcus died !! (saw the tribute at the end too )  He must have composed that haunting music when Collins did the dive.   I loved that.
 

Marcus Fjellström did indeed compose the music for Collins' dive scene. I believe he composed most, if not all, the original music for the show. It had a very distinctive sound, haunting and slightly discordant. I really loved it; the story wouldn't have been the same without it.

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My thoughts on the finale:

I was very disappointed in what was otherwise an incredible series.    I just did not care for the whole Tuunbaq aspect.   Supernatural monster-ish creatures are just not my thing.   Despite that fact, I watched because the story was intensely compelling and the acting was OFF THE CHARTS phenomenal.     I was actually holding out hope that Tuunbaq was part of their lead poisoning hallucinations; that would have made much more sense to me !    Sorry, but the whole final Tuunbaq death scene was laughable to me. ) 

I'm sorry you were disappointed in the finale. I know how much you've enjoyed the series, so for it to end on a low note must be a real let down. Maybe in time, upon rewatch, you might like it a bit more. I really like your idea of Tuunbaq being a mass hallucination. I believe it was @slothgirl who suggested it might have been cool if he'd been non-corporeal. Perhaps some combination of the two could have worked. I like the idea of their fear temporarily giving him corporeal form, just long enough to take them out before disappearing into the wind. Too bad the writers didn't consult with us here on the forum when they were writing this thing; there are a lot of smart cookies here with good ideas. ;)

ETA: Just a general comment. The little ship Silna carved for Crozier was yet another shout-out to real life. One of the artifacts found from the actual expedition was, you guessed it, a little ship someone had carved. I thought that was a neat touch. :)

[S01.E10: We Are Gone]

1 minute ago, Fellaway said:

This is one of the things I love best about this series, that they didn't tie everything up in a gift bow, that they trusted in the intelligence and insight of the viewers.  I just hope, with new writers coming on board for Season 2, that we get the same next time.

Amen. I was really disappointed the writers have chosen not to return, should we get another season. Hopefully, though, TPTB can see there's an audience hungry for intelligent, high quality storytelling and bring on writers of similar caliber. Whatever they do, they've set a very high bar. Don't let us down, AMC!!

[S01.E10: We Are Gone]

2 minutes ago, true north said:

Yes, me too. It was Jopson, wasn't it?

Indeed, it was Jopson.

[S01.E10: We Are Gone]

22 hours ago, tiredofwork said:

Does anyone recall in one of the last few episodes when one of the officers saw a seagull or some bird flying and asked if anyone else saw it?  I never saw a followup to that.  I thought it might be foretelling of some sort of open water or vegetation?

I interpreted it similarly, as a sign of life (and therefore, hope) and possibly open water ahead. Mostly, though, I interpreted it as dinner. ;)

[S01.E10: We Are Gone]

I really enjoyed the last episode, though admittedly, I watched it a second time right away as I was a little thrown off. I felt there was a slight shift in tone compared to the previous nine. Given that we start with 130-odd men and end with one, for this last one to be slightly askew from the rest seems strangely appropriate.

I'm not ashamed to admit I let out a little cheer when Tuunbaq chomped off Hickey's arm, followed by tearing him in half. I may be philosophically optimistic about humanity's potentials and capabilities at times, but I'm not above some well-deserved karmic justice. LOL ;)

In any case, it was nice to have the last half hour belong to Crozier, and Silna (what a pretty name! :). I'm very sorry she was exiled. She must have known it was coming, which makes her rescuing Francis and bringing him to her people that much more poignant. Despite everything they put her through, I think she grew to care about many, or at least some, of these men and was not immune to their suffering, but her ability to do much of anything was extremely limited. At best, she could have helped a tiny handful of them, and if I were her, it would not include a group with the likes of Hickey among them, short of anyone she didn't already have a relationship with, like Goodsir.

I thought she was shocked and devastated when she saw Harry's body. Personal romance fantasies aside ;)--and truthfully, their relationship seemed more akin to that of siblings than of star-crossed lovers)--it wouldn't have been in character for her to be wailing over him, so her standing there frozen seemed perfectly fitting to me.

I hated Harry's death, of course, but if he had to die I'm glad it was of his own choosing and not from being victimized by Hickey, as I feared might happen. I loved that his last thoughts reflected his wonder and intellect. It was beautiful in its simplicity and an interesting contrast to the understandable chaos of Franklin's final moments. Like others here, I found Jopson's end perhaps the most devastating of all. I hate the thought of him dying believing Crozier broke his promise. :`( I cried when Francis found him and stroked his head.

As mentioned upthread, Edward's gruesome self-piercings were a shout-out to real life events. I read (elsewhere, I believe) this was something some sailors/pirates did when they knew they were doomed, in hopes of bribing the discoverer to bury their corpse. It's sad that Crozier was right--Edward did intend to stage a rescue (but was overruled)--and Edward was right as well--they needed the Captain's expertise.

Hickey knocked out Tozer because as the best shot and the one who broached the topic of returning to the ship, he would have been a threat to Hickey's plan. That's also why he chained Hodgson and Crozier to the boat as well. Did anyone notice he called Armitage, who's not a Marine, "Private"? Not unlike his rescuing Manson from Dead Room duty, he used the man's weakness (in this case a physical disability preventing him from becoming a soldier) as a means of controlling him. It got to where I hated Hickey and was glad to see him gone--I was positively dreading the thought of the last few minutes being a showdown between him and Francis--but I have to say I did enjoy his last monologue. Crozier's "You could have just joined up" and the rest of the men gawking at him like WTF (shoot him already!!) when he went completely off the rails were highlights, and the former made me chuckle. XOXO, Francis.

I thought the last shot was haunting, and gorgeous, and agree with those who interpreted it as Crozier seal hunting, and a callback to his conversation with Goodsir about how long and difficult a skill it is to develop. I personally thought it took place years after Ross and the interpreter showed up at the Netsilik camp, but I'm not sure it matters.

When I first started watching this show, I got so into it I read as much as I could about the real expedition, so I knew at least some men were spotted years later, suggesting a few may have survived long(er) term. I remember wondering if any of them did survive, but at the time I brushed it off, thinking why would anyone who wasn't born there want to stay in that wasteland? Of course now it makes perfect sense. After everything he's lost, why would Crozier go back? No one could possibly understand what they went through there, even other survivors of previous expeditions. He would have to spend the rest of his life being interrogated and judged by the ignorant and the foolish, and it would've just spurred men like Barrow to send even more men to their deaths. At least in the Arctic, he could find some semblance of peace, such as it is.

That scene between Ross and (presumably) Barrow's son said so much with so little. Even the loss of 129 men wasn't enough to quell hubris and greed, though it does mark the slide of an empire in decline. Pride goeth before the fall. It's a cautionary tale, even today, though given the cycle of history keeps repeating itself, a lesson which remains unlearned.

[Small Talk: The Northwest Coffee Shop]

4 hours ago, jnymph said:

Trying so damn hard to stay free of spoilers as I did not watch the finale last night.  AND IT'S TORTURE.   I will watch tonight for sure, because I can't wait to commiserate with my shipmates here on this forum.   I even had to be careful on Twitter as I ran into that brilliant artists feed (the one doing Terror cast portraits)  and I saw a brief glimpse of a sketch that I believe was inspired from the finale.  ( i scrolled past it quickly as I did not want further spoiling !)    And I AM DYING with speculation in my little head.    It even kept me restless most of the night.    I hope everyone enjoyed !   I'm not going to come back here until I watch after this evening.      I have my booze at the ready. 

 

THE BRIEF GLIMPSE I CAUGHT OF THE SKETCH BLEW MY MIND.   GAAAAAAHHHH ! 

Might want to grab some tissues, too. ;)

[S01.E10: We Are Gone]

Normally after each episode, I have so much to say I don't know where to begin. This time I don't know where to begin because it's still sinking in. It brings to mind the final shot, alone with one's thoughts, yet not alone, surrounded by everything and nothing at all. This is going to linger with me for a long time. Bravo, gentlemen and ladies, bravo.

One thing I do want comment on is the opening theme. I don't remember which one it was, but several episodes back I remember hearing the theme and thinking it had changed somewhat, but it was a subtle enough difference I thought maybe I was imagining it. After hearing how altered it was last night, I realize it wasn't my imagination after all. This show is so multilayered with so many beautiful touches. Start to finish, The Terror is sublime.

[Small Talk: The Northwest Coffee Shop]

4 hours ago, jnymph said:

Is everyone going to watch the finale tonight?  Or put it off as long as possible, like me ?  I'm not mentally prepared to watch it on a mundane Monday.
 

I don't think I could bear not watching it tonight. LOL

I was really hoping we'd get a longer episode tonight. It looks like it's going to run an extra 15 minutes, but half of that's likely to be commercials. From what I've read about the real-life expedition, there are a number of events or incidents which haven't been shown yet, and I'm wondering how they're going to fit it all in. I realize they can't fit it all in, but there were some interesting findings and I'd love to see the writers' take on it. I wouldn't have minded another episode or two of this part of the story as it's felt a little abbreviated. I'm not feeling the passage of time in the same way I did when they were on the ships, and I'm wondering if it has to do with trying to cram too much into too few episodes.

Unfortunately, I think the issue of getting spoiled before episodes broadcast is going to become more pervasive as networks/streaming providers try to draw subscribers by making entire seasons available on demand. For the most part, viewers of this particular show have been pretty thoughtful about not letting stuff slip (and I'm referring to the Web in general, not just here), but I, too, have been spoiled at various points by offhand comments and it really sucks when you're trying to avoid spoilers. :(

[Media for The Terror]

For fans of the show's writers, this is a bummer:

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And for those of you who were impressed by Kajganich and Hugh's vision and are curious to see their take on a new story in Season 2, I have bad news. "Dave and I aren't coming back for Season 2 by our choice," Hugh says. "We're just really excited to see what AMC does with what we've done."

http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-terror-season-2-amc/

Thanks for the link to the artist's drawings. I especially like the her depiction of Lt. Hodgson. Very haunting.

[S01.E09: The C the C the Open C]

Hm, well darn, I was hoping for some esoteric meaning I might've missed. Hadn't thought it might just be a practical thing. LOL

[The Rewatch]

3 hours ago, jnymph said:

I’m joining in. I want to rewatch all episodes prior to the finale.

i don’t think I’m ready to say Good bye to our men as soon as tomorrow night..... may have to rewatch to streeeeeech this out as long as possible, :/

Just finished 1-3 today...... catching so many things!  Really enjoyed the intensity of Collins dive so much more 2nd time round

I'm glad there are others here who aren't quite ready to say goodbye to our crew. This show has touched me in a way like no other has in a long time. I've also found the discussions each week very rewarding. Speaking of which, @Captanne, your post in another thread when you said, "Blah, over-educated, blah" cracked me up. LOL!

It's really nice to be able to delve deeply into some of the philosophical questions without feeling like you're looking too much into it or whatever. More than most, I feel this show invites you to examine the story from many angles, including existential ones. That shit's right up my alley. ;)

I looove that whole sequence with Collins' dive intercut with Goodsir's autopsy of David Young. It's so haunting and still one of my all-time favorite scenes. The music is spot-on too.

2 hours ago, Captanne said:

Did you notice one of Sir John’s fleeting memories was of Crozier and Sophia holding hands?  For some reason that surprised me.

 

1 hour ago, jnymph said:

And yes, Sir John had weird last life thoughts. Why think of Crozier & Sophia? Guilt over not encouraging their relationship?

Fitzjames said Sir John was burdened by what happened with Crozier and Sofia, so it's conceivable he did feel guilty, and significantly so for it to be one of the last things he thinks of in his death throes. At the very least it must have been something he'd been ruminating about recently. I suspect, however, it was more for dramatic reasons and a little bit of a "Hah, hah" /Nelson Muntz irony kind of thing on the part of the writers.

2 hours ago, Captanne said:

Also, Ross warning Franklin about having a backup plan. 

This sequence is one of my favorite parts of episode three. It tells us so much about Franklin's character. He knows he screwed up big time. Given his response when Crozier requests to send out the rescue party, though, it's clear he's still deeply in denial, and/or too arrogant to admit it. Although containing elements of truth, his dress down of Crozier is 95% projection.

One of the things I most enjoy about rewatching the show is following the storylines of minor or secondary characters. I have a soft spot for Tom Hartnell, for example. He's actually involved in a lot of major events throughout the story. He's a decent man, representing the grunt contingent, who would presumably be in the background as opposed to the officers, and a good counterpart to Hickey.

[Terror Laden Quotes (No tongue required!)]

Great idea for a thread!

 

Irving: Man's worst urges can be satisfied through Christian pleasures and graces--singing with friends, watercolors, study, climbing exercises..."

Hickey: Climbing, sir?

 

Sir James Ross: If you believe that depiction, you've dropped a stone at least since we've been back.

Crozier: And seen a dentist as well, apparently.

 

Sofia: I know with you, I can be plain.

Crozier: With me, you've never hesitated to be plain.

 

John Morfin: Have you ever...been lashed, sir?

Goodsir: No! Good Lord, Morfin. <pauses> Have you?

John Morfin: <sniff> Only once, sir.

[Watch Your Neck: The Hickey Topic]

In light of what we learned about Tuunbaq in episode 9, I've been thinking about the question I posed earlier, about the creature's relationship with Hickey, if any. If Tuunbaq collects or ingests souls, is it possible he can detect them from the living? If so, maybe the reason why the creature hasn't attacked Hickey isn't because he's drawn to his strength or power, but that he's repelled by the man's malignant spirit and sucking up his soul would be like ingesting poison. If part of Tuunbaq's purpose is to maintain the natural balance, absorbing Hickey's essence might skew that balance, just as it's doing in the material world.

It's pretty amazing, the damage one person can do. They were never all going to make it, but I wonder, if the mutiny hadn't happened, if that would have changed anything for some of them? Since the story's structured around real life events, probably not, but if we view the show separately from what actually happened, I wonder if removing Hickey's influence from the equation would have made a difference? Of course it's possible it could have been even worse if he'd stayed with the main group, destroying them incrementally from within. It seems to me he would have been rooted out and disposed of sooner or later, though. I can't imagine a provocateur remaining under the radar in such extreme conditions since everyone would be on edge with their survival instincts particularly heightened.

[S01.E09: The C the C the Open C]

Does anyone know what the significance is of "C" in Peglar's poem/episode title? Why not just use the word "sea"? My first thought was C for cannibalism, but I can't see it meaning only that, if it does at all.

ETA: Just thought of something else. In this episode we have a redshirt in a similar state as Pvt. Heather, the Marine whose brain was partially exposed. Now that we pretty much know Tuunbaq eats/takes/absorbs souls, were these instances of him taking their souls before they were dead? What I can't wrap my head around, though, is how a man with his skull ripped open could possibly survive, albeit in a vegetative state, particularly back then.

I know, chances are these questions will be answered Monday night--at least I hope so!--but it's something that's been niggling at me for the past few days and I keep forgetting to mention it here on the forum. Should anyone pop in between now and then, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[The Rewatch]

Sure, I'm game. It's good to have a thread to discuss the story as a whole, and since we've already seen all the episodes at least once, it won't spoil it for others by referring to future events when talking about earlier episodes.

[Small Talk: The Northwest Coffee Shop]

20 hours ago, true north said:

Crozier's biography is excellent as well, especially the parts about his friendship with Sir James Ross. Although as with Fitzjames' one, it's like looking at a car crash in slow motion. One can't help but feel sad reading about even the happiest moments of their lives, because the shadow of their final expedition is always there. 

Next on my list: Barrow's Boys by Fergus Fleming, about that whole age of polar exploration that ended after Franklin's expedition was lost. 

As far as I know, there are also some expedition relics on display in the Greenwich maritime museum. I wonder if "need more fuel for my current obsession" is a good enough reason to extend my London work trip for another day this summer :)

Thanks for the feedback on Crozier's bio, and you have me wanting to check out Fitzjames' as well. As you say, there is something very melancholy about reading their stories, knowing their end. I know it sounds corny, but I want to know more about them anyway, even knowing how sad it all is. They deserve to be remembered. I don't know what it is, but these men and their story have wormed their way into my heart.

Here is my humble addition to the "reading" list:

https://librivox.org/the-worst-journey-in-the-world-by-apsley-cherry-garrard/

For those who aren't familiar, the website is a collection of free audiobooks from the public domain. This is a memoir from Scott's 1910 Antarctic expedition. I've been listening to it at work and in the car, and it's very good. Sometimes some of the language they use and the stuff they describe disturbs me, particularly in regard to their dealings with wildlife and the domesticated animals they bring with them, but overall it's very interesting, even riveting at times. Plus there are references to Crozier, Ross, Terror/Erebus, etc., which is a nice tie-in.

[S01.E09: The C the C the Open C]

5 hours ago, Captanne said:

Sighed I, the whole problem I have with the "fancy lady with toes in snow" bit is that it's WAY too little too late.  Also, she didn't know Crozier the way we do.  She never gave him the chance because society told her she shouldn't.  The relationship (which went through TWO proposals and rejections, not just one) was torpedoed by Sir and Lady Franklin.  By. the. Way.  Nuts to them, I say.

I know, they were all -- as is the entire mission -- victims of British hubris.

But still.  Crozier, although "common" and Irish was still an Englishman -- Ireland hadn't become a Republic, yet.  He should have been completely suitable.

 

No, I'm with you. Sofia said it was about him being a sailor, but it was clearly about class as well. I think she did love him, but she took him for granted. If he'd been knighted and quit the Service, she might've been swayed, but it shouldn't have taken that either. A man devoted to her the way Crozier was is a dream come true for many women; she blew it and he paid the price. :`(

I still bad for her, though, in the sense of regretting a decision that at the time you didn't realize would be so far reaching. That's the kind of thing which can haunt a person for the rest of their days.

 

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ETA:  Also, if I may note.  Male work colleague (straight) and I (straight) have the publicity photo of Crozier pinned to our office wall.  We put it up the minute some hero posted them on the media thread.  

NB:  Jared Harris' twitter bio has #actor first and #happilymarried second.  He's no fool.  (I paraphrase but it's something hilarious like that.)

Er.  Not that I have checked or anything.

Don't you DARE judge me.

I'm in no position to judge. Crozier is my desktop wallpaper on my work computer. LOL. ;)

RE: Jared's twitter bio, as if I couldn't love him more. Sigh. ;) Actually, that's very sweet. <3 He comes off as very funny and self-deprecating in interviews, very personable too. I haven't followed his career at all, but after seeing him in this, I will now.

[S01.E09: The C the C the Open C]

16 hours ago, MaryWebGirl said:

Has anyone else tried to watch this on demand and had technical issues? It kept doing this annoying thing where it would suddenly cut to a scene a few minutes ahead for about 5 seconds, then maybe a commercial would start, then it would cut back to where I was. And then it stopped entirely with 10 minutes left. 

OK, I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that guy and though "How you doin'?"

 

LOL. Yeah, I was like, "Ooh, who dat?" ;) In a land of bad wigs and questionable hygiene, a guy like that sticks out. ;)

Actually, a lot of the cast is pretty attractive (Hello, Edward and Jopson, and Blanky's pretty sexy in his own right ;), but I like how for the most part they just look like regular people, wrinkles included. It makes it easier to get lost in the story and see them as people rather than actors playing characters.

On 5/16/2018 at 10:31 AM, jnymph said:

YES,  Bridgens set me off sobbing when he said, 'You're a good man.   There will be poems written."  (or something to that effect.)  My heart exploded.   

Yet another gut wrenching episode.  

Jared Harris continues to portray sadness, determination and fortitude with such conviction !  EMMY? Look no further.  Assisted suicide with Fitzjames was heartbreaking; along with him comforting Jopson.   I was a blubbering mess.   Beautiful story with Henry and Bridgens as well.    I agree with everyone, we don’t know nor should we care about their particular relationship.  Just that they genuinely loved each other.

Blanky!  A complete utter bad a$$ to the end.   That little crumb of happiness I was looking for:   The “Nor west Passage” !  he got to see and scrawl on his map.  (still don’t understand the forks/rope for Tuunbaq though)  Loved his last line too.   GO BLANKY !

Agree with everyone on how healthy Crozier, Goodsir and Hickey look compared to the others.    Good assumption on other posters parts that it indirectly tells us these are the main characters now.   Goodsir looked downright handsome and never thought he was.   However, ever since the first episode he's been my favorite character.   I love him. 

OMG THE FINALE IS NEXT.  I'm going to need therapy.  EEK.

 

eta :  Sofia standing barefoot in the snow, as Lady Jane had mentioned she did.  Trying to feel, maybe absorb some of Crozier's pain.  Very nice writing touch.  

 

Oh God, I know what you mean about Bridgens. He totally slayed me in that scene. :`( For someone who was in the background for much of the series, he ended up being a pretty cool character, and the actor is a big reason for that. He did a lot with a small role, and I was very moved by him and his story.

I'm also glad to see Jopson step to the fore, but with Crozier gone and Lt. Little in charge, I don't think he'll being going south. Jopson is going to die in the near future. How much fresh meat would it take to cure scurvy? Is Edward wrong to (presumably) leave the sick behind when they have so many miles to go and a very narrow window before winter returns? Is Crozier wrong to slow their pace to comfort the sick and dying, drawing strength from friendship and brotherhood to survive the journey?

Even Hickey's approach has a certain logic to it, repugnant as it is. They need to eat, a man is going to die. He could argue he's sparing Billy a slow agonizing death. But that's Billy's decision to make, not Hickey's, of course. I think it's interesting we haven't seen his group trying to hunt or mentioning hunting parties whereas there are multiple references to Crozier's group's efforts. They're only a quarter of the way there and already he's killed one of their own; what happens when they're halfway? I don't think they're going to make it halfway necessarily, but the point is, Hickey's group is driven by fear, whereas Crozier's is driven by love and camaraderie. With Edward leading Crozier's group, it may be shifting to a more pragmatic approach. It's a pretty fascinating dynamic.

And yes to Sofia and Lady Jane's brief return, the latter's wavering smile and the former standing barefoot in the snow. As some mentioned upthread, Fitzjames echoing, "More than God loves them" in reference to Crozier was also very moving.

Blanky wrapped forks around himself as a weapon. He can't stop Tuunbaq from devouring him, but he can make it hurt and possibly buy his friends some more time (and maybe, if he's lucky, kill the creature altogether).

 

16 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I was starting to think Goodsir was pretty one note, so I LOVE his transition to detached "You're going to die" interaction. He played that so well, and perfectly captured an empathetic compassionate person who doesn't become hateful... just resigned and unaffected. Heartbreaking in some ways, but also showing some much needed backbone for the character.... and just as quickly, his true nature comes back in the face of cruelty.

 

I have and always will love Goodsir. :) I think his development has been more subtle vs. say, Crozier and Hickey, who have dramatic arcs. He's such a good man, genuinely openminded and compassionate. I like his metamorphosis from hesitant and almost apologetic to curious and growing in competence and confidence to grimly resigned and indifferent. Overall, I've found him pretty well-rounded. Plus it's been nice having someone I could consistently root for. ;)

Anyway, the bolded part above really encapsulated that moment. He didn't say a word, but we knew exactly what was being said. Just another powerfully acted scene. I also loved the "breathing tent" scene mentioned upthread.

I agree Jared Harris is a powerhouse, but I too think he's in excellent company. He's most definitely the lead actor, but, like @Captanne said, not in an upstaging, unprofessional way, rather that he elevates it. He sets the stage, and the rest step up accordingly. Then he taps just a little bit deeper and squeezes that extra truth or nuance from the performance. Now I'm a weepy mess because all these people I've come to love are dying left and right. It was a tough sell, watching a show like this, knowing from the outset the characters are doomed, yet by the first time we hear the opening theme, I was already hooked.

 

On 5/16/2018 at 10:31 AM, jnymph said:

However, the worst part of this show (IMO of course) continues to be the Tuunbaq aspect.  I am JUST NOT feeling it.   I like the idea of Inuit ways/culture playing into this story, but I feel this tale of a creature is told awkwardly and not making much sense.   However, I'm able to overlook it and trying to see it as a metaphor, as others have mentioned. 

 

16 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I love the idea of the Tuunbaq, but the execution of the "character" just hasn't been consistent. I'm not talking about the animation; I'm referring to the point of his presence (although the animation needs improvement. The weird human clown-like face is WAY off the mark). But at this point, I think we needed to have sorted out just what (or who) Tuunbaq is or represents, and what role or significance he plays in the native culture and landscape. They could have gone several ways with it, and they didn't pick one. I can't reconcile a force that restores the balance for the long term good of the land and all its inhabitants, with a magical creature that can (and would) stack parts of frozen bodies together. Yes, frozen body-stacking (if that was a thing) is about achieving perfect balance and precision, but it's just a little too "WTF?". Is Tuunbaq playing with pieces of bodies the way people play with rocks to create such improbably but perfectly balanced stacked rock sculptures? Is it just to creep the people out? Would a supernatural force that creates balance among species by getting rid of excess caribou care about creating FEAR in the process? Is it analogous to Hickey playing with that guy's brain?

Tuunbaq was introduced in the first scene of the show. I only hope that some clarity will come in the last episode, but I'm afraid it won't. I don't think they really knew what the wanted to do with Tuunbaq beyond having scary promos before the show aired. Maybe the finale will prove me wrong.

 

Compared to the other story arcs, which seem so carefully crafted, the Tuunbaq thread comes across a bit disjointed. It comes in fits and starts. There's not enough information to piece together a cohesive narrative and reconcile seemingly conflicting things. I think they left it too vague, and at times, not vague enough. It's kind of floating around in plot limbo crashing into things now and then.

I really like the idea of weaving the Inuit into the story, as they were certainly a part of real life events, and a significant source of what little we do know about the expedition's fate. I like the idea of Tuunbaq too. It just hasn't been executed particularly well, and considering the setup, it's going to have to be pretty amazing to make up for the clunky narrative. I've definitely liked some aspects. I like the "bringing Lady Silence a seal" scene and love the Blanky/Tuunbaq standoff; Franklin's demise made a big impression as well. I really like Lady Silence. I want to like it and it's an element with a lot of potential, but if you're not going to do anything with it, it just gets in the way of the primary narrative.

We'll see. They've managed to raise the bar again and again so I won't count them out yet. I'm somewhat dubious, but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

[Watch Your Neck: The Hickey Topic]

3 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

While I think that the first round of attacks (in episodes 2-5) were caused because our heroes invaded Tuunbaq's land and killed his sacred Shaman, I believe that Hickey was definitely responsible for the Tuunbaq's second round of attacks, in episode 8. 

Though the creatures closest bond with with the late Shaman, Lady Silence's father, it has been implied strongly at various points throughout the show that the Tuunbaq also has a deep connection to the land itself, and the Inuit people. The Tuunbaq leaves the crew alone for quite awhile, and they believe it to have been killed; then Hickey incites the murder of 4 innocent Inuit. The very next episode, Tuunbaq returns, and goes on his biggest rampage to date, killing dozens of men. I can't help but think the two events are connected.

IMO, Hickey is responsible not only for the death's of 2 crew and 4 Inuit people, but for the dozens of men killed by the Tunbaq last episode.  The Tuunbaq is a wild spirit/ animal/ being, and operates by his own rules; when he went on the rampage, he was merely avenging the murder of four of his people. 

I'd say that Hickey is, at this point, far worse morally than the Tuunbaq. Hickey is wholly selfish, apparently incapable of empathy or remorse, commits (and takes pleasure in) acts of murder and torture, and above all has no real reason for doing this save his own advancement, pleasure, and entertainment. Meanwhile, the Tuunbaq's land was invaded by a bunch of white guys, who proceeded to brutally murder his Shaman (and apparently the only person capable of "talking" to him), ravage his sacred land, and murder 4 of his chosen people. Tuunbaq, like Hickey, is a beast; but unlike Hickey, he also displays some human qualities, like loyalty and affection. 

Also, Tuunbaq caught a seal for Lady Silence, for no other apparent reason than to be nice. Hickey would never, ever commit such an act of altruism. 

For the first 7 episodes, Hickey fascinated me. Now I'm getting a bit bored with him. The gradual reveal/ unraveling was brilliant on the writers part, however, now that we've seen him for what he is, he doesn't add up to much more than a generic psychopath. Who is also, judging by the past few episodes, none too bright. Tuunbaq is actually the smarter of the two at this point, IMO. 

Great post. I absolutely agree Hickey is far worse on a moral level than Tuunbaq. After this latest episode, I'm thinking Tuunbaq isn't evil at all. He seems to be more a force of nature than something good or bad. I'm going to save the bulk of my thoughts on him for the episode thread (or try to, anyway ;), but I wanted to mention a few things here in relation to Hickey.

I also agree Hickey murdering Lady Silence's people spurred the creature's latest attack. The Inuit belong there; the sailors do not, and ever since they arrived everything's been out of whack. Given his reaction to LS's father's death and Franklin's extremely disrespectful disposal of the man's body, it makes sense that the murder of five Inuit would send Tuunbaq on a rampage like no other.

The irony is, in his attempt to undermine Crozier by killing those people, Hickey ultimately shot himself in the foot. He wasn't wrong that it would be next to impossible to feed all the men based on the available resources. But this makes what few resources which are available that much more vital. Like Crozier said in Terror Camp Clear, getting help from the indigenous people is no longer an option. That's all on Hickey.

I, too, enjoyed the gradual reveal of Hickey's true nature and found it very well done. Knowing what we know now, Lt. Irving calling him a "devious seducer" turned out to be a nice bit of foreshadowing. My own love affair with the character came to an abrupt end with episode 6 when he killed Dr. McDonald. There was a fair bit of debate in the episode thread about whether it was intentional, with me falling in the "hell yes it was" camp. After everything he's done since then, it's abundantly clear to me it was no accident.

I agree at this point he's pretty much your standard psychopath. I'm bored with him too, though I have to admit I want him gone mostly because he pisses me off. Sociopaths reveal themselves sooner or later if we listen to our instincts--as emotional, social beings, humans have the ability to sense something is "off" about someone--but so often people ignore their intuition for any number of reasons. Hickey has a big neon sign blinking "DANGER, DANGER!" above his head, and it's maddening watching these men being led by their noses despite all the warning signs. He murdered a friend expressly for the purpose of eating him. Do any of them actually think he won't do the same thing to them when they are no longer useful to him? I mean, come on! How blind can you be?! Still, I can't deny self-delusion isn't part of the human condition, then and now, and probably always will be.

[Small Talk: The Northwest Coffee Shop]

1 hour ago, true north said:

After all, nothing takes one's mind off stories about people dying in the Arctic better than stories about people dying in the Antarctic.

LOL!!! So true. I am positively obsessed and have read everything I could find online about the expedition. Now I'm compiling a reading list based on people's suggestions here (thanks especially, @Captanne for your many recommendations throughout the show's run. I intend to extend beyond this expedition too; the whole subject is fascinating).

I would love to hear your thoughts on Crozier's biography once you've read it; my finger's been itching on the "Buy Now" button.

[S01.E09: The C the C the Open C]

4 hours ago, zobot81 said:

How am I missing so many details??

...I think I need to re-watch the entire season with CC turned on.   -__-

I watched it with CC starting about halfway through the first episode. It helped a lot in following along and keeping the characters straight. I think you'll notice a difference.

4 hours ago, Hybiscus said:

I should clarify myself because that statement sounds pretty harsth and personal.  I have nothing against the actor or his talent.  It's just that Hickey nauseates me, and the actor's face is so iconic, I doubt I'll ever be able to separate him from the character.

I know what you mean. I really enjoyed the character initially. I especially loved his scene with Lt. Irving when the officer was lecturing him on "improving" himself--"Climbing, sir?" LOL! But now just the sight of him makes me grit my teeth. It's hard enough watching characters I love suffering and dying; watching his sadistic superiority in the midst of all this misery is driving me nuts. Grrrr.

I think about the only thing which might help is if he played a very different character in a very different time period, like modern or maybe futuristic. And he'd have to change his look too. And even with all that, it may take me a few years. Sorry, Adam; you may have made yourself a little too iconic in this role.

54 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

According to this, it has been.  I really hope they include some of these same actors in the next season.  They're amazing.

Woo hoo! That's great news. I agree on the casting; I would LOVE to see many of these same actors back. <3

[S01.E09: The C the C the Open C]

1 hour ago, jnymph said:

I have yet to watch this episode, but I will tonight.   I have stop and get some WINE first so I can cope by drinking a'la Crozier.  LOL

Hence, I'm not reading any of the posts, I don't want to be spoiled.    Such mixed emotions, dreading AND looking forward to watching.  Sheesh. 

I will be virtually joining you tonight, alcohol included. ;) I couldn't bear watching the episode twice on broadcast night as per usual, it was so heartbreaking, but it's so good I have to see it again.