ohjoy
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Posts posted by ohjoy
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Touché. :-)
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Do they actually want the show to crash and burn?I'm honestly surprised by this too. If only because Caity/Sara was clearly very popular with fans. By flat out admitting that she was killed off to further Laurel - they are putting a huge target on KC/Laurel, basically all but pointing at her and saying 'blame her.'
This was the first thing I thought about last night, once the shock of Sara's death settled a little bit - is that they (EPs) did it this way so that if the ratings drop now, they can blame it on Olicity - pointing at it and saying "see - it's the moonlighting curse."
I keep trying to formulate a more explanatory thought than that, but I can't come up with anything. I pray the don't really think they can intentionally derail the character development of those who have shown the most growth, blame the portion of the audience that doesn't conform to their original vision, and somehow continue to have anything resembling a successful show. I'm just not into that brand of insanity.
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@SueB I think you might have missed @AwesomO4000's votes before you.
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Another lampshade, as Felicity says "don't keep me dangling", they prepare to dangle the audience forever.
This got me thinking -- with Felicity as a stand-in for the audience, and Oliver for the showrunners -- that conversation is rather in-character for both sides. Hmm.
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The more I think about it, the more irritating it is to me that they couldn't at least give Sara an heroic sendoff, even if they had to keep all the other "setting up the season's mystery / emotional arc" crap in there. The could have easily gone with something like:
Sara hears her name and turns around, recognizing the (offcamera) speaker.
He says something like "You have eluded (or whatever word for escaped) me for the last time."
She squares her shoulders defiantly and says "I did what I came to do."
Arrows. Fall. (No dumpster.) End scene.
Or even:
Sara hears her name and turns around, recognizing the (offcamera) speaker.
Arrows. She stumbles backward to the ledge. A fist reaches out grabs her.
He says something like "You have eluded (or whatever word for escaped) me for the last time."
Amidst her dying gaze she steels her face and defiantly says "I did what I came to do."
The hand flings her over the ledge.
Fall. (No dumpster.) End scene.
Either of those (or countless better-conceived scenes) would have allowed Sara to not be sucker-punched to death. It would have set a mystery of who killed Sara and why, fed into the "it's complicated" comment she had just made to Laurel (with something more than a seeming, "Oh, you know -- relationships"), and given her even the tiniest measure of agency at the end. And would have been less gimmicky than "Turn -- Surpise! She's dead."
This is me, struggling to find some measure of something that could have made that scene even remotely tolerable. I'll be here all week.
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From the Relationships Thread:
Laurel and Oliver are dangerous people to be around basically.
Oliver makes sense. You know, vigilantism can cause trouble.
But Laurel, man, she's just like the grim reaper.
A gleeful, grinning grim reaper. (I wonder what fashion-forward attire goes with a sickle?)
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This is probably an odd comparison to anyone who's not me, but Eliza's speech patterns and the way she randomly shortens words reminds me of nobody quite so much as Kim Possible.
Aw man, that's for putting that idea out there. I'm gonna hear that from now on. (Plus they're both red-heads. But I'm pretty sure the comparisons end there.)
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I think it's just writer/director speak for "dead, Dead, DEAD."Questions
- Sara was shot with three arrows, just like Oliver killed the first Count. Do you think someone is framing Oliver for Sara's death?
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The reason I blame PoNR for Swan Song is that PoNR is the reintroduction of Adam. If they had left Adam dead, they wouldn't have had the out of using him as Michael's Vessel, which rendered Dean's Michael Vessel arc meaningless. Why yes, I am bitter!
I completely agree, but since (IIRC) Adam was not originally the plan for that episode (the title "Point of No Return" was supposed to indicate something entirely different) and the plans got changed when they realized that the show was not ending with only 5 seasons, the injustice was inflicted on it first to allow for what was to come. I guess I love PoNR as much for what it was supposed to be as for what is ended up being.
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++ Point of No Return (Sorry, I'm not blaming this ep for Swan Song's crapfest -- IMO that's on the writers' trajectory change at the S6 renewal. If anything, PoNR is also a victim, rather than a perpetrator.)
++ Good God, Y'All
-- I Believe the Children Are Our Future
37 - The End
37 - Dark Side of the Moon
37 - Changing Channels
33 - Good God, Y'All
33 - Point of No Return
27 - The Song Remains the Same
25 - Hammer of the Gods
21 - The Real Ghostbusters
19 - Sam, Interrupted
19 - Abandon All Hope
17 - My Bloody Valentine
17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester
15 - Two Minutes to Midnight
07 - Swan Song
01 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future
Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael
Fallen Idols
Swap Meat
The Devil You Know
Sympathy for the Devil
Free to Be You and Me
99 Problems
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Great. Now i'm crying AND laughing. Thanks for that.Dear arrow writers,
Can't you find another way?
Oh my gosh -- that's her name in my head from now on. So cute.Is the baby going to be a Michaels, a Diggle, a hyphenate? I am just curious. Michaela Diggle?
Which is why I really achingly love her response. GAH Oliver -- a kiss (even THAT kiss) does not make up for you being a melodramatic idiot about being with the woman you love! (The really good thing about this is that she has not responded that (second) ILY declaration yet -- cause that's when it really IS over.)So I'm this huge Oliver fan, right, and I can usually understand his thinking and why he makes the stupid mistakes he makes, etc. And while I loved every Olicity scene tonight, the more I think about him kissing her and saying "Don't tell me to say I don't love you," the more mad I get. Like. Are you serious? What was the goal there? He'd made his decision; he's all sure about it. The least he owes her is what she asked--that he say "never" instead of "maybe."
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From what I can remember of pre-show interviews with thr show's creator, she (1)didn't feel that Karen's Scottish accent was all that consistent (Buh???) and (2)thought that Eliza's vapid personality and lonely struggles would be easier for Americans to identify with if Eliza was American rather than Scottish.
I know, it makes no sense to me either.
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I think I've got the numbers correct now from all of the recent posts...
++ Point of No Return
++ Good God, Y'All
-- I Believe The Children Are Our Future
37 - The End
37 - Dark Side of the Moon
33 - Changing Channels
33 - Point of No Return
31 - Good God, Y'All
27 - The Song Remains the Same
23 - The Real Ghostbusters
23 - Hammer of the Gods
19 - Sam, Interrupted
19 - Abandon All Hope
17 - My Bloody Valentine
17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester
15 - Two Minutes to Midnight
07 - Swan Song
03 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future
Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael
Fallen Idols
Swap Meat
The Devil You Know
Sympathy for the Devil
Free to Be You and Me
99 Problems
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That's funny -- Iris' perky/happy facial expressions and mannerisms reminded me very much Laurel's cutesy smile, especially at the beginning. It sort of distracted me -- maybe the actresses have similarly-shaped faces.The potential love interest seems much more likeable than Laurel on Arrow as well.
I really liked this. I intended to watch just so I'd be caught up for the crossover, but this was enjoyable in it's own right. I like that it's lighter than Arrow. And while there is a similar cast of characters (requisite team, love interest, parental issue, villian hiding in plain sight), they can go in so many different directions than the ones Arrow employed. This should be a fun ride!
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If I'm not mistaken, she has a different wig now than the one she wore in the Pilot.
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-- Swan Song
-- I Believe the Children Are Our Future
++ Point of No Return
35 - The End
35 - Dark Side of the Moon
33 - Point of No Return
31 - Changing Channels
29 - Good God, Y'All
27 - The Song Remains the Same
23 - The Real Ghostbusters
19 - Sam, Interrupted
19 - Abandon All Hope
19 - Hammer of the Gods
17 - Two Minutes to Midnight
17 - My Bloody Valentine
17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
17 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester
09 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future
05 - Swan Song
Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael
Fallen Idols
Swap Meat
The Devil You Know
Sympathy for the Devil
Free to Be You and Me
99 Problems
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The only thing I liked was Danny. The actor can really sell the amorous/languorous eyes. He's eye-candy.
I'm right there with you. Hopefully he'll pop up on somethng else I can watch after his time on the show is over.
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Good God, Y'All ++
Swan Song --
Free to Be You and Me --
33 - Dark Side of the Moon
33 - The End
33 - Point of No Return
31 - Changing Channels
29 - Good God, Y'All
25 - The Song Remains the Same
21 - The Real Ghostbusters
19 - Two Minutes to Midnight
19 - Sam, Interrupted
19 - Hammer of the Gods
17 - My Bloody Valentine
17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
17 - Abandon All Hope
15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester
11 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future
07 - Swan Song
05 - 99 Problems
01 - Free to Be You and Me
Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael
Fallen Idols
Swap Meat
The Devil You Know
Sympathy for the Devil
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I understand what they were doing, Sam was the voice for destiny and Dean was the voice for free will and slowly they have them switch positions--as is this show's general want. Mostly, it works for me, on Dean's side of things anyway. I just feel Sam's side of things is lacking to make the switch in Point Of No Return really pay off properly. It's another one of those things on this show that I intellectually get, but feel like it needed a little more care and feeding to make me get invested.
I'll say more when we get to it, but while I love "Point of No Return" so very much, I do still understand this assessment.
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In my meaner moments, I replace "Clara" with "Moffat". It brings a lot of clarity to my frustration.Moff has said that this season Clara is the main character, not the Doctor. And we are suffering for it. Also, maybe that's why the Doctor is so horrible. We aren't seeing him for who he is, we are seeing him through Clara's eyes. She misses 11, she sees 12 as horrible and gruff and a jerk compared to 12. I think Moff is wrong making Clara the main character and this season being her journey instead of the Doctor's. He's wasting the fabulous Capaldi and alienating a lot of his audience.
Thanks -- now I think I can understand why she threw that tantrum. Doesn't make it necessarily right, but at least it now makes some sort of sense.I also loved that the one person who was unilaterally focused on saving the alien was Courtney-because that's my experience as well. Kids, teens, even college students tend to be black and white and focused on environmental issues. They can't believe, quite, that anything bad will happen to people, so therefore, everyone should be saved. The astronaut was the one person with real experience as to how bad it had gotten. She wanted to do the least harm and at least stop it now. Clara didn't know how bad it was on Earth, didn't have the idealism of a child, and ultimately couldn't make up her mind, so she punted to the majority. Which is how most adults handle it, too. And while the astronaut could say "I was wrong", and Courtney was "It's so beautiful!!", Clara had a tantrum. Because she didn't want to make the decision one way or the other, the way Courtney and the Astronaut both had. She wanted the doctor to make the decision for her, to save her from herself, and to take the blame. The doctor chose not to do so. I think he made the right choice.
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I don't get it. I don't get what was wrong with the Doctor letting the humans decide, I don't get what was so evil about Clara last-minute "Wait! This is wrong!" I don't get the abortion-conflict implications -- this seemed like a rehash if "The Beast Below," if anything. I don't get why Clara freaked out at the Doctor at the end, but I also don't get why her conversation with Danny is considered "patronizing" rather than sympathetic or at the least understanding.
All that being said, I wasn't really into this episode. Calling them "germs" isn't any excuse for me -- I'm so over spider-like creatures. And apparently there was so much about this episode that I didn't get, that I guess I just didn't "get" the episode. Not actively displeased, just not all that interested.
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Welcome!On the East Coast for a night!
Point of No Return ++
The End ++
Good God, Y'All ++
33 - Dark Side of the Moon
33 - The End
33 - Point of No Return
29 - Changing Channels
27 - Good God, Y'All
23 - The Song Remains the Same
21 - The Real Ghostbusters
21 - Two Minutes to Midnight
19 - Sam, Interrupted
17 - My Bloody Valentine
17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
17 - Abandon All Hope
17 - Hammer of the Gods
15 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester
11 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future
09 - 99 Problems
09 - Swan Song
05 - Free to Be You and Me
01 - Sympathy for the Devil
Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael
Fallen Idols
Swap Meat
The Devil You Know
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Good God, Y'All ++
Point of No Return ++
Free to Be You and Me --
33 - Dark Side of the Moon
31 - The End
27 - Changing Channels
27 - Good God, Y'All
27 - Point of No Return
23 - The Song Remains the Same
21 - The Real Ghostbusters
21 - Two Minutes to Midnight
19 - Sam, Interrupted
17 - Hammer of the Gods
17 - My Bloody Valentine
17 - Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
17 - Abandon All Hope
13 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester
13 - I Believe the Children Are Our Future
09 - 99 Problems
09 - Swan Song
07 - Free to Be You and Me
05 - Sympathy for the Devil
Trapped in the box with Lucifer and Michael
Fallen Idols
Swap Meat
The Devil You Know
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Can I just pop in to say that this thread's subtitle is easily one of my favorite thread title's ever? Just makes me grin every time I see it.
Topic: Uh... Colin Ford! My friend recently discovered his neighbors down the street are Colin Ford's grandparents! They're very proud of him, especially in We Bought a Zoo.
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S01.E01: City Of Heroes
in The Flash
It said "Wayne Tech / Queen Inc Merger Complete". Hee.