freeradical

I forgot the absurd conversation right before Lisa grilled Eileen about her marriage. "The way people get divorced is so disgusting"" How could you hate someone you had sex with and raised kids together" Okay, I get that some people are lucky and manage to have a civil relationship with the ex and that's great but how and why did they decide to go over the top with shock that a a lot of the time marriage ends in hurt and even hate?! It was just weird and out of nowhere. Not the most interesting thing that happened but a "?" moment for me!

You're right. Miss USA is immediately in competition for Miss Universe and that would at least warrant a salary and I was thinking Miss America, that's the scholarship one. There would be sponsors wanting to get in on the potential Miss Universe win so there's that too. I didn't know about Carole Gist either! Going to look her up now. :-)

I'm just giggling right now! I remember that he was sent to Idaho to get him away from his pot smoking friends. Idaho. Anyone here familiar with Idaho? Pot. Pot. Everywhere! And everyone smokes because there is NOTHING to do in Idaho!!!! She just wanted him out of her hair because that God parents in Idaho story doesn't hold water. Why not a classy boarding school? At least he could get some good coke there!

Yes and Andy Cohen never ever puts his precious LVP on the hot seat at reunions. It wouldn't matter what, he sometimes asks her once if it's true. She says some bullshit and he goes "Okay!" Then lays into someone else for 20 minutes. She already has immunity so she doesn't need credibility either. IMO

She is fascinating. The sheer level of narcissism! The unbelievable lack of empathy! No sign of self awareness whatsoever! That vapid psycho is worthy of a case study. Oh, and what you said. What a bitch!

Before we run with the "gravy train" theory. All you get for winning Miss USA is a college scholarship. Check the entire list of winners and you might recognize one name. Plus, the best gravy train Kenya has ever been on is this show so maybe Patricia should have answered that door. If she did we would probably be accusing her of only doing it now to get on the show. This woman can't win for losing. I'd be so interested to hear her side of the story. Honestly, Kenya's perspective and memory are no doubt distorted. Aunt Lori loves Kenya but circled the wagons to protect her sister. Why? Lori doesn't seem like an unreasonable woman. Some believe that you either forgive people or you don't. I've never heard anything about making them ask for it first. Don't get me wrong, Kenya's pain is real. She needs some therapy for sure. I just think her side of the story could be leaving out some enlightening details. She's exaggerated and worse on the show all the time for her storyline and unless I wasn't actually watching this episode on t.v. she's still doing all this on t.v. camera in tow, and for the show.

I'm telling you man..it's concerta or extended release adderall. Bethenny is ADD as hell. That probably helped her get where she is today. At some point you gotta take the pill to organize the thoughts. I don't even think she abuses it. I just think it makes her spew out ideas at one and one half time speed without a filter!

I couldn't have said it better.

RCharter I do want to say I want you to know my original comment wasn't directed toward you at all. I hear what you're saying in your posts and respect your opinion. I'm just posting my own rambling opinions with no intention of trying to change your opinion or anything. A lot of people feel the same way you do! Its a very complicated situation for Patricia and Kenya for sure. I hope Kenya gets some kind of closure somehow. :-)

There is actually a legal term for it. Under duress. It literally means the choice made is not considered your actual choice because you made it while under pressure.

I edited my post I think while you were responding to also explain my feelings on why I don't think the "now" Patricia even matters in this situation. If we were talking about any person who has caused another person pain, placing your ability to heal on their apology or fake apology is like slapping yourself over and over. It won't help and it only hurts yourself. I don't know why Patricia won't talk to Kenya and I don't know why Kenya keeps trying. At this point, Kenya's behavior is more confusing to me than Patricia's.

The early 70's was still very much a time when your family and their respect was everything. Even if Patricia could legally make the choice doesn't mean it was "her" choice ever at all. People did what their parents told them to do. Even the freaking 80's were still a time of 'shotgun weddings'! Unless you were a young mother 30 plus years ago, you can't speak to how much of what we went through was choice. Much of it was pressure, guilt, pain,bravery responsibility on and on even if you did get married. I don't really consider choices made while backed into the corner of what's best for the child, your family and least of all you a choice at all. Besides, whatever started this snowball rolling 40 plus years ago is irrelevant now. The only thing we know is there was a young, immature mother backed into a corner. Kenya needs a psychiatrist. She is demanding things from someone believing it will give her closure. Closure is a mental process we work toward alone. If she thinks anything Patricia could say or do would give her closure, she is wrong. She can only give it to herself by looking within. Patricia isn't the issue, Kenya is and she's flailing. That's what's so sad about it all.

I know we're not hearing the whole story. Just bits and pieces from a damaged person and her Dad (he is cloudy at best) and I do wonder if this confused mess would make much more sense knowing more. -In all these years of resentment did Kenya possibly behave in a hostile way toward her mother at some point either in person or by mail. Or whatever? I have a hard time believing there was never a good, solid attempt at some negative attention from her mom. It would be a normal reaction. -Patricia could be diagnosed with a mental illness, some of which include lack of empathy and/or an inability to cope with any conflict. You can go to school and be a social worker (a low paying, two years of community college job in my state) and still struggle with mental illness. Nothing changes the fact that it's incredibly sad but we will never hear the story from an unbiased perspective to get facts instead of emotion based recollections and family dynamics are often too complicated to put in words.

I just want to say I have really enjoyed your input on this topic Aging Goth. This is such a difficult topic and you have great perspective regarding both sides.

Women's liberation is about equality. It is ridiculous and sometimes vengeful by employers to ignore the fact that the two sexes are not equal when it comes to biological facts of reproduction. Just because women choose to work doesn't mean we deserve to "drop it in the field", throw it on our back and get back to work as some sort of "Isn't this what you wanted?" punishment. Back to Kenya. However this mess started, it sucks. I heard her tell her story her first season on Atlanta and even when I truly disliked her, I never forgot that she had a hell of a head trip in her life that made her this way. Also, in reading some comments on this thread I'd think they were written by prudes in the 1950's!