BaseOps
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Shonda may still have control but it appears that Debbie Allen and Bill & Stacy are running the show now so I don't think its fair to place all the blame on just Shonda. Shonda seems pretty hands off at Grey's these days. I'm not sure sue really has favorites other than Meredith.
As someone else pointed out (Deanie87 I think) those characters (except DeLuca who was added to give Maggie a love interest) were all added to create a new family/circle for Meredith after Derek and Cristina left. All she had was Alex and sometimes Callie since she barely speaks to Richard, Bailey, Arizona, April, Jackson, etc. So yes, the increase in cast size for Meredith when they decided she would be the sun is part of it, others all were pushed aside. Look at Callie. She drank wine and talked about sex in the group chats and that was pretty much it until she showed up with Penny.
That's true, I don't mean to put the blame on Shonda per say, I guess I should have just said 'the writers' (I don't really know how involved Shonda is at all, at this point.) I just think its a tendency that this show has to bring in new characters and make them prominent too quickly (for my taste.) No doubt Maggie was brought in to circle around Meredith, I don't know if I totally agree about Amelia though. When she first came on I think it was due to the fact that Shonda loved the character on PP and she wanted to continue her story on Grey's. Her storyline when she first came on was more with Derek than anyone (then Owen and Steph) and it wasn't until after Derek died that they pushed her "sister" story with Meredith. I do certainly think the Maggie / Amelia / Mer thing has been incredibly forced and annoying, and it's probably my least favourite aspect of this season (aside from Penny.)
But Riggs, Deluca, and Ben were all made regulars this year and they have little to nothing to do with Meredith. Penny did at first, but her story now is largely with Callie / Amelia / Steph. And it's a pattern this show has followed for years, not just since Meredith became 'the sun'. In season 6 after losing George, we got all of the Mercy Westers + Teddy. In S9 after losing Mark and Lexie we got Leah, Shane, Jo and Stephanie.
Either way, even if we had 20 regular characters, someone has to get focus, right? I guess the bottom line that we can all agree on is that they've chosen not to put any real focus on Alex and Jo for whatever reason. April and Jackson get plenty of stories and, like you said, they don't really interact with Meredith at all. I totally respect your opinion and I can see where you're coming from, but personally I don't think Alex's lack of story has anything to do with him being Meredith's "person". There have been a million opportunities to write for Jolex and they've chosen not to. Whatever the reason is, it's frustrating. I'm happy to see Alex supporting Arizona in whatever they have coming up for her, but he shouldn't just be around to be everyones best friend.
Hopefully they surprise us and give them something meaty in the last few episodes, but I won't hold my breath.
LOL at saying she wanted to make things lighter this season. Nothing says light like bringing back the doctor who "killed" Derek, having Meredith attacked, Ben and Bailey at odds, Callie and Arizona about to be at odds, Jo and Alex at odds over the proposal, Amelia and Owen's never ending torture cycle.
"Light"
Shonda's perception of "light" is certainly very questionable lol. I guess it's generally a bit lighter than the back-half of last year, if only because they haven't had anyone killed in a while (but there's always time for that.) My biggest problem is when they try to go "light" these days, they tend to go way over-the-top, like the 'sister' stuff early in the year. The show used to be great at showing nice, small moments in the everyday lives of these doctors, but now most of the 'comedy' is way over-the-top and just distracts from any sense of reality.
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I agree, it goes beyond the size of the cast. The last time Alex,Jo or Jolex had decent story is when Tony Phelan & Joan Rater were the showrunners. Once Stacy McKee and Bill Harper took over the were pushed into the background. Yes, exits and backstage issues were also going on but I don't believe that in two seasons they couldn't manage to squeeze in an arc for these characters. They certainly had no issue giving Maggie plenty. Her fourth episode with the show was Maggie-centric. How long did other characters have to wait to have an episode focused on them? Amelia has had plenty of story. Penny isn't even a regular cast member and they find plenty of time for her. Wilmer is a guest star and he appears to be getting a bigger, ongoing arc than Alex, Jo or Jolex has had in 2 seasons. I can give them a pass on S11 but not S12. If they had no interest in writing for Alex/Jo/Jolex than they shouldn't have given that interview acknowledging the lack of story in S11 telling everyone that Jolex would be getting story and focus in S12. What changed from that interview until the season started? Its not only Alex & Jo but Alex & Jo were the ones they stated would have focus this season.
I think a lot of it comes down to Shonda giving all of the attention to her shiny new favourites. She has a tendency to add new characters and, rather than giving them time to integrate with the cast, she shoves them down our throats. Like you said, Maggie got a centric episode within weeks of joining the show. Now, rather than giving any attention to Alex and Jo, they created a romance for Maggie by adding DeLuca. Amelia dominated the storytelling for a lot of last year and has again this year, and now Penny has come in and gotten more to do than just about anyone else this season in terms of how frequently she's involved in storylines. With Wilmer, I'd say that story is more about Steph because he's a patient and I think will essentially be some type of prop for whatever they want Steph to go through at the end of this season. But I get what you mean.
So I don't think it's just the cast size, I just think that's a major part of it. If Maggie, Amelia, Penny, Deluca, Riggs, etc. hadn't been added, then I think Alex, Jo, Callie, Bailey, Ben, etc. would have naturally been given something more to do throughout the year. But yea, it's totally subjective... What's most puzzling to me is what exactly Shonda had in mind when she said made that statement at the start of this season. I dug up her quotes:
“We had a lot of stories we wanted to tell with them last season, and I promised the fans, ‘We’re going to tell all these Alex and Jo stories… ,'” series creator Shonda Rhimes tells TVLine. “And then we had to take a left turn because Patrick [Dempsey] was leaving. And now we want to tell a lot of those stories — except in a lighter way. So there’s a real focus on them this season.”
As Rhimes acknowledges, viewers haven’t really “gotten to know” them as a couple — or, for that matter, as individuals. “I feel like we didn’t get to know Jo the way we should,” says the EP. “And Alex is sort of a grown man now; it’s time to watch that happen.”
I mean, does she really think she's given Alex and Jo focus? Was her idea of focus the Alex-centric third episode? Or was there more planned that got cut (again)? Was she just blowing smoke out of her butt to appease fans? How have we gotten to know them at all as a couple this year? There's no doubt that the writers could easily give Alex / Jo a storyline at any point if they wanted to, no one is arguing that - it's their job to come up with stories for these characters, but they continue to just back-burner them. The big question, for me, is why.
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This is the same thing that happened last year. Shonda starts the season saying how Jo and Alex are going to be a big part of the storytelling, they start a plot and then either just completely drop it or slap on an ending that very clearly isn't where the storyline was heading. I get that they had to write PD out last year and and they weren't the only ones who got shortchanged, but most of those other characters got significant stuff to do this season (Jackson, April, and Owen for example.) Callie still hasn't gotten much other than the simply dreadful stuff about Penny, and Richard gets nothing either, but Arizona got the Geena Davis arc last season and has gotten a decent amount of storyline this season, even if most of it is lighthearted (dating) or mixed up with other storylines. And she will get some good stuff coming up, as will Callie it seems. It is just Alex and Jo (and Richard) AGAIN. And popularity doesn't seem to be an issue considering Penny is fucking everywhere all the time, and Alex is popular even if Jo isn't. I imagine that Camilla is frustrated, but Justin is probably fine with coming in commenting on Meredith or Maggie's lives, cashing his paycheck and having a family life. Even he, though, has expressed boredom with doing the same old thing all the time and wanting Alex to settle down and start a family. I have never wanted an unexpected pregnancy line for Alex and Jo, but god help me if that's what it takes, then sign me up. At least then they can't ignore it, although that's what I thought about a "breakup" and a proposal.
I assume that they will get at least one scene in the last two episodes if nothing else, but there are so many other loose ends to tie up that I don't expect more than one with Jo putting the ring on. And I get that the huge cast is the reason for the uneven storytelling, but what I don't get is why it is the same characters that seem to get shortchanged every single time. They seem to juggle everyone else out pretty well. Maybe they just keep telling themselves that Justin will always be there so they will concentrate on him "next" season, at least until the next issue comes up every "next" season.
I'd say you could throw Bailey in there with Richard, Alex, and Jo, but otherwise I totally agree. Steph and Ben are basically in the same boat, but it seems they're both getting something to do now, and at least Steph has been given hints of professional growth over the past two years, whereas Jo has been given literally nothing.
I've said this before, but I think that if they were so intent on keeping the cast this huge then they should have focused on cutting the season into two halves with shifting focus - keeping half the cast as supporting players in the first half, then giving those characters some type of recurring story in the back half while the rest of the cast then works as the supporting players. It would have allowed them to tell the same stories but without so much stopping-and-starting, and with more room for other characters to get focus. Something like this:
Episode 1 - 12 focus heavily on (totally just an example):
Meredith / Amelia / Owen / Riggs / Maggie / DeLuca / April / Jackson / Richard
Episode 13 - 24 focus heavily on:
Meredith / Alex / Jo / Steph / Callie / Arizona / Bailey / Ben
Now, Amelia and Owen, etc. would still be present in the second half, but given less focus - rather than splitting their stories up into these choppy, drawn-out arcs, they could really focus on a batch of characters at a time and give them interesting stories. This would also mean we'd need less of the character-centric episodes that tend to break up the storytelling even more, because every character would be given actual focus for a decent period of time. I've really enjoyed a lot of this season, so it's especially annoying to have issues present - like the lack of an actual story for many of my favourite characters - that could have been easily fixed.
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To be completely forthright, I think most people would like more focus on the older cast : Alex, Callie, Arizona, Bailey, Richard than the new cast members.
I think they wanted to give Alex an easy relationship but they are so enamoured with twists and turns, Alex gets shunted to the side.
Agreed. I definitely think Bailey has been short-changed for years, and Callie, Arizona, and Alex haven't been given much substantial to do since S10. I think S11 was just a huge mess all around, and I think this year is a big step up, but its biggest weakness for me is too many characters which leads to extremely disjointed storytelling. Amelia / Owen has been a ridiculously repetitive merry-go-round, for example. I actually like Riggs, but his story with Owen has been stopping and starting for months without any real movement, and now it's just boring. I won't even start with Penny...
I'm all for new blood when needed, it keeps things exciting - but not at the expense of the rest of the cast. We don't need 2 - 4 new players every time one regular leaves. Steph has been around for years and she's fine, but she's never been integrated well with the cast. I don't hate her scenes, but I can't help but wish they were spent on characters that I actually care about. Rather than bringing in Deluca for Maggie, for example, I wish they had bothered to really delve into what it was like for Richard to discover he had a daughter, but they never really did that.
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lol at this....if only Jo and Alex actually had a conversation period. ;)
It's crazy. The last time they had a scene together (just the two of them) was, I believe, 12x12. I genuinely thought things were looking up before that: I thought they had some good stuff in 12x03, started discussing long-overdue issues in 12x08, and then got some nice subtle scenes in 12x10... then nothing. 12x12 basically put them on pause, so we're just supposed to believe that they're happy but essentially in arrested development. I'm totally fine with Jo not wanting to be engaged, given how he's treated her at times, but it'd be nice to have seen them at least talk about it. Or give them a sex scene rather then just having them both mention to their friends that they're having great sex. Ben and Bailey got a scene discussing why he didn't apply for the grant, but Alex and Jo didn't get one discussing what would happen if she did get it.
I was glad to see the Jo / Meredith resolution (though I know not everyone was happy with it), and I thought that after that they would have Alex and Jo start to move on, but then they just disappeared into the background. Oddly enough, this year has endeared me to Jo more than I ever have been, if only because I felt bad to see her being shit on so much early on and I liked when she started standing up for herself. Now I have no doubt that there's nothing ahead for them this season aside from her accepting the proposal in the finale. I think we'll see lots of Alex supporting Arizona through her upcoming hardships and that's it. I really, really wonder what Camilla thinks, especially after being given quite a bit of focus in S9 and S10.
Shonda very clearly stated before the season started that behind-the-scenes issues caused their stories to be put on hold last year, and that we'd be diving back into Alex / Jo this year. So much for that. I'd honestly have rather seen a full-on breakup in 12x08 even if it was only designed to give them some time apart and watch them work back together (it's better than nothing.) I don't understand if the writers don't know what to do with them or if they're just complacent. I still think Shonda is just too into her new batch of characters to care, honestly. It's a pity, because Alex is a fan-favourite (clearly) and I think if they took the time to come up with good stories for him and develop Jo more, it would do a lot of good for the series.
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I don't think it will bring Callie and Arizona together. Despite this being a nighttime soap, so never say never, I do also think there are some lines that once crossed you can't go back. Fighting over a kid is major, and depending on how this plays out could get very ugly. Since it's going all the way to court it doesn't look like either mother is going to back down; which will surprise me with Callie because I don't understand why she'd go through all of this trouble just because her girlfriend got an opportunity away for one year.
Mark will be rolling in his grave.
Yea, I can't see how this would be framed as a Callie / Arizona reunion. At the start of the season I thought it was possible, but the writers seem to really want us to buy that Callie and Penny are SO in love (as they have since 12x05.) I also agree that a custody battle is hard to come back from - they have enough issues that they've never bothered to discuss, so I can't see this making it any better. It just drives me crazy that, like you said, this is hypothetically all over Penny leaving for one year. How could Callie justify taking Sofia away from Arizona for a year when she could instead leave her in school and just go visit Penny when Arizona has Sofia? It's not just Callie's life she'd be leaving behind in Seattle, but Sofia's as well (granted, she's only a child... but still.)
I think that if they are going to go the Alex/Meredith route, it won't happen until sometime next season. If Jo and Alex breakup either in the finale or, more likely, over the summer timejump offscreen, then Camilla will most likely leave and then we'll know. OR Meredith will still get with Nathan, Alex will be without a love interest once again and get even less storyline, if that is possible. Jo got more of a storyline than he did this year.
This is why I wished that the writers had stretched out the Preminger thing rather than making it obvious right away that Penny would jump in and get it. It could have been used as a catalyst to get some real Alex / Jo discussion (She applied to get it, essentially agreeing to leave for a year, and we didn't even see acknowledgment that she'd be leaving Alex...), still set off the Callie / Arizona story (Callie telling Arizona that if Penny gets the grant, she'll go with her...), and even been used as a potential exit for Steph since it's all over the media that Jerikka is filming a pilot. Instead, it became this quick throwaway for a storyline that we all sort of saw coming.
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Now I have no idea what decision Arizona could be making and why. It has to be something related to Sofia - what else can it be? - but I really can't think of anything that would make sense. It would be so odd if she just sued for custody out of blue, so far we haven't seen anything that would warrant it.
And if that is that, going away with Sofia without telling Arizona anything would be an even bigger overreaction than April's restraining order.
But whatever happens, it's sure to be a mess.
This is what I'm a bit confused about - Arizona asking for shared custody or seeking legal guardianship isn't super strange, but how would that 'change her relationship with Callie forever'? They've seemingly gotten along fine when it comes to Sofia.
Maybe after seeing all of the crap that Jackson and April are going through with regards to custody issues, she starts to feel nervous about her own standing with Sofia. Or maybe she hears that Penny got the grant and fears that Callie will go with her and she won't be able to do anything about it. I don't think that we know what their exact legal custody agreement is, do we?
I wonder if there will be any other cliffhangers surrounding other actors whose contracts are up? We assume that CW, JC and JPJ are going to re-sign but I don't think that anything is confirmed (or JW/SD). Its clear that Richard and Alex just aren't going to get any kind of storyline this season, other than wisely stepping into other people's conflicts and/or being wingmen/Dear Abbeys, but I guess they could get something in the finale.
I think you may be onto something with the whole April / Jackson storyline serving as a spark for Arizona to step up and maybe want to seek some legal guardianship, but why would Callie ever object? I'm gonna have to wait until Thursday to see how this pans out, it's got me really confused. Any way I work it out in my head, it's a total assassination of Callie's character, which I hate. I hope we're missing something.
I think Sara is the big possible departure that they're going to be playing up - obviously Ellen is returning, and everyone else seems like a safe bet (to me.) I wondered about Jesse Williams for a while but they don't seem to be paving the way for his exit at all. Then again, when Kim Raver and Chyler Leigh left, we had no indication at all until the S8 finale. I'm guessing Alex won't get any type of cliffhanger (*sigh*), I still think we're basically just going to see Jo finally accept the ring in the finale.
Also, is Meredith ever going to interact with Nathan again? I would have thought that they would plant those seeds a little earlier than they have if its going to happen. The next 5 episodes seemed filled with Ben/Bailey and Calzona stuff.
I thought we'd see a lot more Riggs / Meredith early on, but I'm sort of glad that they didn't push it (or push any fast MFEO relationship with Meredith so early.) I really like Riggs, so I'm still open to the possibility of them, but it looks like that won't be happening this season, at least.
Here are the promo pics for 12x21:
We've got Mer / Jo / Owen on a case together, Steph in her civilian clothes at the hospital, and what looks like an awkward Arizona / Penny / Alex scene.
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It says that first Callie makes a decision about Sofia without consulting Arizona and then Arizona makes a decision that can affect her relationship with Callie forever.
It probably means that Callie decides to go with Penny and take Sofia without talking to Arizona about it, and Arizona then sues for custody.
Which would all be pretty horrible.
It's the other way around, actually.
12x19 - Arizona makes a decision that could affect her relationship with Callie forever
12x20 - Arizona is upset when Callie tries to make an important decision about Sophia's future without consulting her
12x21 - Arizona and Callie are at odds and put their friends in the middle of an uncomfortable situation
The custody thing would definitely make more sense the way you had it, but according to the press releases Arizona's decision comes first, in the 2nd half of this week's 2-hour episode.
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episode 21 press release
no surprise here, seems like we are on the right track with a Calzona custody case/issue, or at least something regarding Sofia. But, really Owen and Amelia STILL?? give it up already.
So, Meredith didn't support Owen/Amelia when Amelia was in love with him, but now that she's said they aren't good for each other, Meredith is supporting them? Actually that seems pretty spot on for Meredith.
Yea, it has to be a custody battle... I just can't see it being anything else, at this point. That is so, so disappointing for me.
I don't think the Meredith / Owen / Amelia thing is super out of left field. She mentioned to Owen in the last episode that Amelia was asking about him... I actually forgot that she was sort of against it at one point, mostly because the Amelia / Owen "relationship" has just been so exhaustingly all over the place for two years now. Meredith and Amelia also weren't on such great terms at the time, if I'm right. Either way it just doesn't interest me at all. I'm finally warming up to Amelia, but this storyline is just a no-go for me.
Again, no Alex or Jo in the press release... guessing we'll see no movement for them until they get a cutesy moment in the finale and then she puts on the ring. It also looks like the Bailey / Ben story will be wrapped up neatly in 2 hours this week, so I guess that's Bailey's entire "storyline" for the season. There's so much cast to spread stories around to, but we keep going back to the same things. At least there's no mention of Maggie in the press release....
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And would a surgeon who's head of a department really give that up to follow her resident girlfriend across the country for a year? They spent so much of season 10 building up how the hospital is something they all made, that it's worth fighting for and they're all proud to work there, etc so to have Callie just impulsively decide to move away (and for someone she's been dating for a few months) makes no sense to me and would be such a lackluster exit for Callie. Add to that the fact that she'd have to take Sofia away from Arizona to do that, it'd be hard for Callie to not come off looking like the bad guy. I really hope all this speculation is completely wrong but I'm guessing they're going to utilize Sara Ramirez's contract status for everything they can.
What's the purpose of having Callie and Arizona have a storyline now, after the show has pretty much forgotten they were ever a couple? If it doesn't lead to them somehow getting back together I'll be surprised, since they can't really be further apart than they currently are, and if this ends with them hating each other, what's the point?
This is why I think the storyline had to be designed specifically with Callie's departure in mind, otherwise I see no other purpose. But, like you said, I can't fathom any way that Callie would come out of that not looking horrible. We rarely see them parenting, but we're to believe Arizona has always been a loving mother. Sofia already lost one parent, I'd hate to see Callie take her away from another. And as an exit, it would leave a horrible horrible impression of Callie with me, which I hate even more.
I'm worried that the legal stuff is Callie deciding to follow Penny and taking Sofia with them and Arizona having no claim on her. I really don't want to see that.
Yea, this is what it sounds like. I'm so hoping we're wrong, but based on the brief episode descriptions we've gotten, it really looks to be headed this way. I've been really wanting a storyline for Callie... but not like this.
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Callie is among my favourite characters and the more I think about this potential storyline / exit the more I hate it. Taking Sofia away from Arizona to be with Penny would be absolutely cruel and ridiculous, especially after she just deemed Penny suitable to even meet Sofia. Not to mention, Callie has an entire life in Seattle. She is friends with Meredith, Owen, Bailey, etc. She's on the board of the hospital. To see her just uproot her life would just not make sense to me: I get that people don't stay put just because they have friends somewhere, but Sofia should come first, and Arizona is her mother. Callie could easily go visit Penny throughout her year away....
I'm just not loving where I think this is going, especially if it's really how they're having Callie / Sara exit.
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I honestly thought Thatcher was dead.
In that photo, the actor doesn't seem to be in character as far as appearance. So I'm leaning toward a random visit.
I'm surprised they didn't kill him off, honestly. He just sort of disappeared after he started working on Scandal. We saw Meredith starting to accept him as family by having him over for Christmas in S6 and then his final appearance was in S7 when he had a kidney stone.
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Grey's did a 2.1 in the demo with 7.3 Million viewers (fantastic for going up against the 1st hour of the American Idol series finale.) Scandal did 1.7 and The Catch 1.1 - http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/04/ratings-news-8th-april-2016.html
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Yea, this episode was meh for me. Not terrible, but nothing great. It's typical for mid-season... very filler, lots of setup.
So I guess the grant was designed to do two things: either send off Penny & Callie if Sara decides to leave, or send off Steph if Sara stays and Jerrika's pilot gets picked up. I'll be so upset if they decide to write off Callie as deciding to move Sophia away to follow freaking Penny. Also, no mention of Jo being down to leave for a year? No conversation between her and Alex? Typical. They could have stretched the Preminger thing into at least a two-episode story to at least make it work on a few different levels, it would have been a logical catalyst to get Jo and Alex discussing their relationship. Instead we just hear that they're having sex, in yet another episode where they don't even share a scene.
I didn't so much hate April overhearing the conversation between Richard and Mama Avery because it's a trope Grey's had done 100 times, but I absolutely hated her serving Jackson with a restraining order. What is it for, 5 feet? They work in the same building! And on what grounds? And how the hell did he get served so quickly? And how did she know where he was going to be? The whole setup was illogical, right down to having Jackson at the bar with Ben after Ben had already left to go home with Bailey. He also in that time managed to have a crib delivered? It was all just rushed and messy and very over-the-top.
I don't mind that Riggs is a cheater, because who isn't on this show? Maybe that would have been an interesting revelation a few weeks ago, but the story has moved at snail speed. Please, please, please move on. I don't want the sister to show up, and I don't want anymore screaming matches between these two. I like Riggs outside of his scenes with Owen.
Surprisingly, the best part of this episode for me was Steph. I don't mind Wilmer, and his story worked fine for me. I liked seeing Steph get competitive and I'm always down to hear someone trash-talk Penny. I also like that she confronted Amelia at the end. I felt like she was talking for some of the audience there... like "REALLY? Penny?" Again, Jo was just an after-thought in the story as if the attendings would never really consider her.
Someone needs to slap Maggie. She's basically a cartoon character, and slapping always seems to snap cartoon characters out of their zany antics. So, yea... someone needs to slap Maggie.
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If they dyed her hair a bit, maybe???
I fear the same, how will they introduce Megan. Will it make sense at all?
I think he will already be involved and then she pops up.
I hope it happens before the finale, because if they think it's going to be some big twist for the final moments of the season then the writers are quite out of touch. I wouldn't mind if she appeared at the end of 12x23 and then some of 12x24 dealt with the fallout of her reappearance. I guess I haven't really thought of her showing up already attached, I just assumed she'd be used as a prop to complicate things for some couple like Addison in S1 (obviously Addison developed into a lot more than that.) Maybe she'll show up with a child?
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Yes, it was her! I disliked her to be honest, with all the respect to her illness,I disliked that character. Her acting is very mediocre.You are on point with the other character as well, Lilly,but Caroline Dhavernas who played Lilly was much better than Lefevre, unfortunately, she bears no resemblance to be Owen´s sister.
The show was horrible indeed.The acting was mediocre as well.
I do wonder who will Shonda Rhimes bring to play Megan. Aubrey Dollar,as you say,might also fit.
You mean from that Lilly?
I never watched that series, but I really liked Caroline Dhavernas in Hannibal. I think maybe with red hair she could pull off being a Hunt. From the list that TvLine gave, I wouldn't mind Alyson Hannigan or Lauren Ambrose taking on the role. I guess it depends on the age - have they specified how old she was supposed to be?
Either way, honestly, I'm sort of dreading this storyline. From the second that they mentioned that she was never found, it became painfully obvious that she would be popping back up. My biggest question is whether or not they'll have Riggs in a romantic pairing by then to have her show up and 'complicate' things. I actually really like Riggs, I just don't think this is an ideal plot line, but I'll wait to see how they play it out. It just seems very much like a daytime soap story to me.
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I don't hate the scenes, but I would like them a lot more if Alex shared stuff about how he was feeling, he really doesn't seem to do that much anymore and Mer used to be his main confidante. I still have a lot of questions about what exactly went down with the "proposal" and where exactly they stand now. Clearly I am not going to SEE it revealed between Alex and Jo, so him talking about it would to a long way toward getting any kind of sense on where he stands on things. Also, I really think that it would do the character of Meredith some good to show some interest in the lives of all those who drop everything to make sure she is OK.
Totally agree with this. I guess I just mean I'll take what I can get. But I really thought that from 12x08 / 12x10 we'd be getting some more Alex and Jo scenes and then... nothing (aside from the occasional mention of the ring sitting in the drawer.) I've never been a huge fan of Jo, but I like seeing her stand up for herself this season and I keep hoping they'd give her something to do. I guess the writers think Alex has nothing to talk to Meredith about because he seems to have nothing going on, because they just decided to gloss over the entire thing. We know Mer held the ring for him, but after that there hasn't been much conversation about the state of his relationship with Jo other than Mer telling him to go be with her.
Yeah, and unfortunately I think that they may still be flirting with it. Meredith may be sharing some scenes with Nathan coming up, but I have thought that they have been holding Alex "on ice" for her just in case for awhile now. It would explain why Jo is basically a non-entity these days and the sloppy, inconsistency of their relationship drama. I think that the Alex is super-concerned for Meredith stuff has been a little over the top as well, so we'll see I guess.
Part of me thought that they were gonna go there after 12x09, but I also thought they were prepping for an Alex / Maggie pairing with all the scenes that those two got together at the end of last season and how Jo was totally sidelined then. I like that they've kept Meredith's romantic options open rather than just finding her a 'soul mate' right away, but it shouldn't be at the expense of Alex getting any other stories. I don't really think that's the reason, but it could have contributed I guess. But then why give Alex and Jo sweet little scenes like the ones in 12x10? Or why devote an entire episode to the Meredith / Jo thing and have Meredith apologize and tell her she wants her and Alex to be happy? Better yet, why keep Jo around at all with so many other potential woman for Alex even if he doesn't end up with Mer? I really, really thought that Jo was being written off at the end of last year in favour of an Alex / Maggie pairing, but now I just feel like the writers don't know what to do with Jo at all.
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Good points, BaseOps. Alex has to be close to 40 at this point -- I can't remember how many years are supposed to have elapsed since S1, but at least a decade. And Alex was meant to be older than George and Izzie, who were 26 or 27. My point is, seems like Alex as a character deserves some stability, given the craziness of his history, so it would make sense to get him married to Jo and actually settling down a bit.
So do you guys think that we as fans have a better handle on the characters than the writers do?
The timeline is so strange, I haven't thought about it in a while. S1 - 3 were a single year, but after that most seasons have encompassed a year or more + the year-long time jump last year... so I'd say we've definitely gone at least 10 years. Alex is clearly stable, and I think the writers have enjoyed showing that off by having him be a great doctor and a great friend, but they're missing the mark by not letting him grow beyond that. Even mature, grown up characters can screw up and deal with issues. Alex, especially, has a past that's so ripe for it: we've barely met his family, there's the Izzie's eggs thing. We've never met Jo's 'family' or anyone from her past... I mean I could literally think of 100 potential stories for them that don't have to result in a break-up or death. I'd love to see Alex and Jo as a stable couple dealing with issues and overcoming them.
I feel like the same thing happened with Meredith for several years: they made her 'whole and healed' and she got sidelined. If you recall the middle seasons Meredith was hardly the lead of the series, which I remember being a big complaint among (some) fans. Killing off Derek allowed Shonda to open Meredith's story up to new possibilities. The stories on this show thrive off of drama, which is why I think they tend to get bored with older characters who are generally 'happy' (Bailey, Richard, etc.) and focus on their new creations.
As for Penny, like I said, she must have been brought in in case Sara Ramirez chose not to renew her contract. I mean, they couldn't have possibly thought that adding a new character to the already overcrowded cast just because was a good idea? And really, finding a way to write Callie off isn't easy. Another major character death would make the show look like a joke, so that's out of question. And they can't really pull a Cristina/Teddy (or heavens forbid, Erica Hahn) on her because it would be difficult to explain why she'd leave behind everything she has going for her in Seattle - Arizona with whom she shares a child, being the head of her department, part owner of the hospital, board member etc. And this way, going away because of her partner would at least make some sense, as in theory they're deeply in love and whatnot.
This is all I can think of, too. I agree that killing Callie off would be a disaster, and I can't think of any logical scenario where she'd just leave Sofia or take her away from Arizona. I guess I just wish they had her fall for anyone but Penny, because the chemistry just isn't there for me. So I guess if SaRa stays then Penny will be made a regular too...
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And really that's it, but now I want to know why they have gotten no real storyline for the last 2 seasons. They aren't the most popular, but is Penny? She gets a hell of a lot of screentime which includes both personal and professional drama. Is it because they are relatively happy? Then make them unhappy, they are masters at that. Is it the actors for some reason? More backstage drama? Is it the new head writers? Debbie Allen as the new producer? I mean, there are plenty of story to mine if they wanted to, and ones that haven't been told over and over again already.
I do think that being Meredith's person factors into it, but he has been that for two seasons and storylines start and then stop and either don't get resolved or they slap some nonsensical ending together, so they must have ideas, they just don't follow through. And as much as it has to do with Cristina leaving, I also think that the writers like the idea of having a guy be protective over Meredith, and now that Derek is gone, Alex is the only one left, and they do have a long standing friendship, albeit one that used to be less all consuming. Characters who are connected to Meredith get outside stories and those who aren't connected to her at all get stories, and at the beginning of the season, Shonda sure was talking them up, so what changed? I'm just not satisfied with the old "they just don't care about Alex" explanation anymore, I feel like there has to be more to it, or maybe I just want there to be more to it.
Penny is such a mystery to me. I guess I'll have to see how the season pans out to see what their endgame is, but right now I just don't get it. Steph and Jo have been around for years and they've been totally pushed aside for Penny... not to mention how little Ben, who I basically forgot was part of the cast until a few weeks ago, has been given to do despite being made a regular this year.
That's why, to me, it just keeps coming back to the cast size. Alex and Jo got stories when Jo was Shonda's shiny new thing - now Maggie, Amelia, Penny, DeLuca and Riggs are the 'shiny new things'. But I mean, it can't just be that... because April and Jackson have gotten a ton of screen time and storylines. Why them over Alex and Jo? When I look at the past two seasons, it just sticks out to me that, aside from Meredith, the originals have all been virtually pushed aside. But even Steph, who gets crumbs, has been built up as a doctor and been given a speciality - they never even really bothered to develop Jo working with Callie in ortho. I really wonder what Camilla thinks about how she's been written. I think, for some reason, the writers just don't know what to do with them - but it's their job! Create some drama... do something. I think there's no feasible way to write consistently for 16 regular characters + Perfect Penny. Alex is among those who has gotten the short end of the stick.
To me, I'm thankful for the scenes he has with Meredith because it seems otherwise we'd literally only see Alex in the OR. I liked the hints we got of Alex / Jo progress in 12x03, 12x08 and, to a lessor extent, 12x10. But like you said, it seems to just start and then quickly stop. I don't think the writers dislike Alex, but I think - like with Bailey and Richard - they've gotten complacent with him. They show him as a good doctor, a good friend, and trying to be a good boyfriend, but his "stories" rarely extend beyond a single episode. I think 12x12 was the last time we had a solo Alex / Jo scene...
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Cristina was a female character (other than George how many male characters get as much story as the women?), half of the duo Shonda declared the love story of the show and a character Shonda said in many interviews she related to. Alex has never had a ton of story but its so much worse now - its primarily about Meredith for him.
He did have some story with Jo in seasons 9&10, he had some professional story (the board, going to the private practice, the Africa story, etc), the story with his father, he bought a house, etc. Since Cristina left what does he get? The majority of the time he is the sister's gal pal. Even his professional stories end up about Meredith. Example: the big surgery a couple of episodes ago ended up being nothing more than a place for Meredith to chat about dating again. Its frustrating for those of us who are Alex fans and want him to have story about him, not about Meredith. I fully get that Meredith fans don't really mind; no problem with others being just her prop. I'd love for Alex to have more scenes with Arizona. Every second of their scenes together aren't about her.
I do. They always talk about giving Jolex a story then when the season rolls around its Alex just with Meredith.
I'm more of an Alex fan than a Meredith fan - he's been my favourite character since the series started. Sure, I enjoy his scenes with Meredith, and I am a big fan of her character too, but as I've said repeatedly I want a lot more for him. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I see your point, but you're talking like all Meredith fans are fans of only Meredith and are totally okay with every character being used to service her which I think is a really unfair generalization and makes me wonder if you ever even read my posts. We may disagree on the underlying reason, but we both want the same thing here - more storylines for Alex. I've said that over and over. I want better storylines for quite a few characters, actually.
The reason I don't think it's a Meredith / Alex issue is because he's far from the only character to get that treatment: Bailey has been given no real storyline. Arizona has been used as nothing but April's BFF all season. Callie was used as a prop in the Meredith / Penny storyline, and now she's stuck dating her. I think it's a bigger overall issue with the writing and the size of the cast rather than just "Alex gets nothing to do because he's Meredith person now." Looking at the regulars on the show right now, half of them have been given nothing substantial to do this year, it isn't just Alex. Steph, Jo, Ben, Arizona, Callie, Bailey and Richard have all been little more than props in other stories. He gets more to do than half the cast. In my opinion, that's because the cast is simply too big and Shonda has chosen to focus on Amelia, Maggie, DeLuca, Riggs, etc. Rather than shifting the stories focus throughout the season, they've kept it predominantly with the same characters.
Like you said, the majority of the male characters have never been given as much to do as the females. But right now - and for the past several years, actually - Owen has been given a ton of screen time and storylines, and I'd say Jackson has too. They could have given any of that to Alex and Jo, but they haven't. It's not like Jo is getting anything to do on her own, either. If the writers cared to come up with a storyline for Alex and Jo, then we'd be seeing it: instead, like basically every other character, they just insert them wherever they can fit. So yes, Alex ends up with Meredith a lot - but I think he'd been in those scenes regardless of whether he had an actual storyline or not.
I guess there's no point in us arguing the reasons why. There's no definitive answer. At the end of the day, I just want more substantial writing for Alex and several other characters, and I don't think that will happen until the size of the cast changes.
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Mainly because he's stuck in the Meredith's person role. It started even before Derek left. Sandra Oh/Cristina leaving is the worst thing that ever happened to Alex as a character.
But even when she was Meredith's person, Cristina always had her own storylines outside of that. With Alex, he's just sort of thrown around (and I think he has been for several years now) - typically with either Meredith or Arizona. At the end of last season he had a ton of screen time with Maggie, for some reason. I don't think it has anything to do with him being Meredith's person. For instance, they shoe-horned him into the April / Jackson storyline these past few episodes. We had episode 3 this season focused heavily on him, but it didn't develop into anything long-term.
It just seems to me that for some reason the writers don't care to give him anything else to do, or maybe they don't know what to write for him. The same thing has happened with Bailey, Richard, Arizona, and even Callie - they're used as props more than they're given actual stories (hopefully that's soon changing for Callie / Arizona, but so far this year and last they've been heavily neglected.) When they do get stories, they usually last one episode. I do get that it's frustrating that he seems to be mostly used as Meredith's friend, but I don't think thats the reason he's sidelined, if that makes sense. There's been plenty of opportunity for the writers to give substantial storylines to Alex and Jo, but they simply haven't. At this point Shonda seems to have pushed aside the majority of her long-running characters for shiny new ones (Maggie, Amelia, DeLuca, Riggs, etc.)
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I know Shonda definitely said (more than once now) that Izzie would never return - so, yea, I'll have to take her word for it. I did think I heard Heigl say somewhere recently that if she was asked she'd do it, but obviously they're not going to reach out. I just wish we got better closure for such an important character and I wish we'd get something substantial for Alex. I think in the first few seasons, despite not meeting his family, he had consistent story and was always a major player. The thing is, Alex actually has a lot of screen time now - it's just rarely anything substantial. Why not translate it into an actual storyline for his character, rather than him popping in and supporting everyone else?
I actually totally forgot about DeLuca until you mentioned him, Windsprints. So, we actually got 3 new regulars this year + Penny who gets more screen time than most of the regular cast. I have no problems with new characters, but when the cast is this huge it just leads to choppy stories and several underused actors.
I'm really back-and-forth on Callie's status, too. I hope she stays. That new press release has me even more confused regarding their story.
I think Steph is definitely going to have something going on with Wilmer's MS patient.
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I agree, I especially hated the way that Izzie left things with Meredith and it would be a great story for Alex and Jo (and interesting for Meredith, Callie, Bailey and Richard) and would get some buzz. If only...
Maybe if we get a lot of exits at the end of this season (and neither one of them leave) then we will get more focus on Alex and/or Jo next season. But I'm not sure who Shonda would cut or who wants to leave, and that is what I have been telling myself for the last two seasons and it hasn't happened. So I am not that hopeful, unfortunately.
I totally agree - the last Izzie / Meredith scene is really, really heartbreaking to me. Izzie was a tumultuous character for me and I disliked a lot of her actions, but I always really liked her deep down. I hated to see her lie to Meredith and minimize their relationship. I'd love to see some sort of follow-up for the two of them.
And I think the biggest issue is that, in recent seasons especially, whenever one character leaves, we get 2 more. When Cristina left, we got Amelia and Maggie. When Derek left, we got Riggs and Penny (and Ben was upped to a regular.) Rather than investing time in the already-existing characters, they just keep adding more. I hope this year we lose a few (*cough* Steph and Penny *cough*) and don't get any new additions next year. I actually like Riggs, but not at the expense of Alex.
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I would actually love that, but I just don't think that there is any way that KH is ever, ever coming back. However, if they could get Sharon Lawrence who plays Izzie's mom back to say that either Izzie is on her deathbed (my preference) or that Izzie died and surprise! here is your baby, that could work. I just think that we would have heard something about this by now. They have really been keeping things under wraps, but we heard about Wlmer, and some sort of hint has been mentioned about every other character on the show, except Alex or Jo. JC hasn't done an interview in 2 years and nothing seems to be on the horizon. At the same time, I don't think there is any doubt of him leaving. I guess we'll see about Camilla.
Its possible that Jo and Alex will have a lot going on in the last two episode like last season, and while that really won't make up for all that has been ignored and handled poorly this season, it will at least give me something to look forward to as far as they are concerned. But my guess is that Jo will put the ring on in the finale, essentially "proposing" to Alex with no discussion about their "break up" or any other issues, and then after a months long time jump in the premiere we will find out that they eloped, and they will remain vaguely happy offscreen. I would love to be wrong, but going by the season so far, I don't think I will be.
Oh jeez, the fanbase would have a meltdown if they had Alex / Jo elope over the break lol. Although, they did do that before with Callie and George. I agree, having Izzie's mom pop up with the baby could work too. I just think that the way Izzie left always rubbed me the wrong way and made me sort of sad, and I wish Shonda would be able to put the 'drama' behind her in service of a story that could not only get a lot of buzz, but be interesting for a number of characters. KH herself said she'd love to return for a guest stint, but Shonda is obviously against it. Alex aside, I'd love to see Izzie speak with Meredith again and catch up on what's happened since she left (basically a Seattle Grace genocide.) She also had interesting dynamics with both Richard and Bailey. When they brought back Isaiah, it gave me a glimmer of hope... but, yes, the chances of KH being asked back seem to still be slim to none.
But the more I think of it, the more I could it could be a really interesting game-changer for Alex and Jo. It would be the opportunity to give them at least a multi-episode arc next year, since the writers don't seem to know what else to do with them. And we know that Shonda loves getting buzz (to be fair, every show runner does) but I can't think of a single way to get more press than having Heigl return.
Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking
in Grey's Anatomy
I hope they're just playing with us and they're going to use Sara's contract negotiation as a cliffhanger for the next few episodes / over the summer. But sadly I, too, have a feeling that not only is Sara's exit being written, but she's getting one of the worst send-offs of all time. It's nice that she's thinking of Arizona too, but I don't see how she could even consider it. I'm looking forward to Thursday night to see how they get the ball rolling with this story...