bandella

This! I kinda want to smack Rollo upside the head and go, "Dude, remember last time you got all offended over Ragnar being the special one, and then you found out you didn't actually have the heart to fight him and you spent the next year or so wallowing drunk in the mud?" Like you, I love that the show trusts its audience to be smart enough to not see this as totally out of left field or out of character. Disappointing for some, smart for others, pragmatic for still others, but it's entirely in line with what we know about Rollo so far. That being said, I'm not 100% convinced he's going to play along with the Franks. He's probably pissed about Ragnar's fake death and not trusting him enough to tell him in advance, but I don't know if that's enough for him to betray Ragnar again. Who's to say he's not just taking advantage of a great opportunity when it fell in his lap, cozy up to the princess and get her on his side (or at least have some fun being yelled at by attractive women, as seems to be his favorite hobby besides tripping on mushrooms and wholesale slaughter), and somehow work from the inside to make Ragnar's life a little easier come spring raiding season? Or maybe Ragnar will think, "Hey, we kinda sorta conquered Paris...maybe I'll just go bug Ecbert instead."

I think it's been a long time coming, and Helga's just finally had it. First, he freaks out when she tells him she's pregnant, but hey, that's not so uncommon. Then he wants to name their kid Angrboda, who, no matter how much I sympathize with her (she really got the shaft), was not seen as anything remotely admirable in Norse myth. Then he hides away from Helga and the baby, claiming that he can't be happy with her because she makes him happy (...wha?) and can barely wait to go raiding just to get away from the two of them. Between him choking her and then gleefully confessing to the murder of someone very close to Ragnar and knowing that Ragnar could very well get revenge on Floki by killing someone close to him (re: Helga or the baby), I think she just finally had enough. That, and while I have no doubt Helga believes in the gods and all, she seems kind of weirded out by Floki's increasing religious zealotry. So there's that, too.

I definitely think that's part of the issue because let's face it: those first two or three episodes were...not great, or at least I didn't think so, so it's entirely possible that the show was just trying out different things because the characters hadn't really been fleshed out yet. They were on paper, I'm sure, but I like to pretend to be a writer myself sometimes, and the most detailed character bio in the world can end up meaning nothing once you actually put that character into play and have them start interacting with others and the world around them. I think another issue at play here is that people are generally conditioned not to like problematic characters. I've always gravitated toward the more, shall we say, "difficult" characters, the ones who can make you root for them at one point and then want to strangle them the next. One of my favorite characters ever, even before the movies, is Loki from the Marvel comics. I like the myth and movie versions as well, but the comic book version is just...he's a great big bag of dicks, basically, and all the emotional baggage and psychological damage in the world can't make up for the fact that he's a horrible person. He's an abusive, manipulative, misogynistic know-it-all with serious control issues, but damned if he can't also show some good qualities now and then that keep me from just outright hating him. Anyway, I think that's part of a lot of people's issues with Rollo. He's capable of being both good and bad, often to extreme degrees, and those worst qualities make us feel kind of guilty for liking him and wanting to see him succeed. That doesn't mean we have to excuse his bad deeds or apologize for them; they are what they are. It's OK to like such a character. It doesn't mean you approve of their wrongdoings.

Sigh. Gisla. Hon. Let's chat. No matter how "Independent Woman" you wanna be, let's face it: you were pretty much always destined to be married off to someone against your will. I realize Rollo has that scary pagan wolf-man thing going and all, but let's stand him up next to Odo. Do you see what a bullet you dodged?

...dang. Odo's a freak. Rollo's eulogy was so hilariously passive-aggressive. I loved it. omgggg FLOKI STFU YOU WORTHLESS SLUG UGH lolol I can't help it. Rollo killed me this episode. When Gisla started telling him off, he *knew* she was giving him what for. I think that's when he decided that, oh yes, if he can't have Lagertha, he might as well have another challenging, strong-willed woman to try to win over. Good setup for the next season, but as a finale, it felt kinda...slow. I got spoiled by the last few episodes and epic raiding adventures, I guess. I don't wanna wait until 2016, though. :(

Could be Fenrir. Could also be one of Odin's wolves (dude was like a traveling zookeeper). Interestingly enough, the scenario you describe of Ragnar incorporating Christ into his pantheon instead of rejecting the Norse gods instead is pretty true to what a lot of pagans did. Some scholars believe that Baldur in the myths is a prime example, given some of the very Christ-like aspects of his story. Odin was often claimed to be a god of death (among many, many other things), so actually, you're still right. :) Along with the valkyries, Odin himself was said to visit the battlefield sometimes to take dead and dying warriors to Valhalla. In the very first scene of the series, when Ragnar and Rollo are off fighting and Ragnar sees Odin walking around, that's exactly what's happening (or so Ragnar believes, anyway). I am intrigued to see how that plays out, and whether or not Ragnar was crying out to Athelstan or Odin not to abandon him. In light of his undying love for his poor lost boyfriend, I'm inclined to go with the former.

Erm...remember the attack on the viking settlement? When he ordered the fleeing kid to be shot in the back with an arrow? Given that I don't think he was convinced that Athelstan was anything but another dirty heathen (even worse because he knew God and turned his back), I don't even think the fact that he's the kid's non-biological father would really protect him, if it came down to it. I'm still torn between my favorite parts of the episode: the Ragnar's Angels sequence at the beginning, or the dinner scene in Wessex. I'm certain at this point that Aethelwulf's actually struck a deal with Queen Krazypants and is playing Ecbert. Like father, like son, eh?

First, I almost choked on the Twix bar I was eating when I read that. Second, I'd be inclined to agree if not for the scene where he, ah, clearly wasn't doing it for Princess Krazypants. Then again, she might be a special case. Lagertha didn't seem to have any complaints (aside from seeing Ecbert for the slimy bastard he is). I want to believe that the "I'm a dying man" and the previews for next week, especially with Rollo and Lagertha, are decoys. Ragnar's just seemingly on his deathbed, and they're just talking to him. Athelstan's ghost is gonna roll up, smack Ragnar on the forehead, proclaim him healed, and saunter his pretty self on out of there again. I believe!

As usual, random thoughts while watching: Nothing like a bloody pee shot to set the stage. Heh. Sistas are doin' it for themselves! Good God. Haven't they figured out yet that that tunnel is just a shop of horrors? Seriously, NOTHING GOOD COMES FROM IT. Poor Ragnar. He's never gonna be over his poor lost boyfriend, is he? Still not liking the French princess. She just has no personality beyond "I'm fearless." Ecbert! Oh, you magnificent, slimy bastard. I've missed you. Damn, Earl Siegfried. That was pretty slick. Bets on how long before Sulky Chris Pratt snaps and attacks Dad? Honestly, at this point, I'm not so sure he isn't playing Ecbert just like Ecbert is playing him. And...yeah, OK, I'm liking Judith much more these days. "Winter is coming." Ha. What was the point of the Christian wanderer in Kattegut? I...did not see that coming with the Baptism. Given that it really looks like Ragnar's kicking the bucket next episode, I'm very, very, VERY sad...and worried about the show, honestly, because he's such a compelling character. When the seer said "the dead will conquer Paris," I took that to mean the plague, or even Christianity-via-Athelstan-via-Ragnar. I didn't think Ragnar would be the dead one. :(

Exactly. French was the official language of the court following the Norman conquest, and as French itself borrows heavily from Latin for its official documentation, that's why a good portion of our legal terms are Latin in nature. Nobles had to learn it due to intermarriage, business, and simply wanting to move up the social ladder. It never really caught on with the lower classes, but the well-to-do definitely embraced some elements of French to make themselves seem more erudite. Of course, this often resulted in pidgin French and English amalgamations. I don't think modern English is really half-anything, though, to be fair. I don't remember who said it (when in doubt, attribute everything either to Mark Twain or Oscar Wilde), but "English is the language that beats up other languages in a dark alley, goes through their pockets, and steals whatever it can find." It's probably a third German, a third Latin, a quarter French, and a quarter Greek. I am not at all up on my Celtic history, sadly, so it's entirely possible I'm talking nonsense here, and I apologize if that's the case and welcome corrections. From what little I do know, though, I think the Celts originated in and around Austria and eventually migrated west to become the Celts of the Iberian Peninsula, France, and the British Isles, but the process of intermingling between Celts and indigenous peoples in these areas had been going on for many, many centuries by the 9th century, roughly when this show takes place. By that point, the French language had taken on heavy Latin influences. So maybe if the vikings had shown up several hundred years earlier, there wouldn't have been such a difficult language barrier. Back on track, here, I said it in the last episode's thread, and I'll say it again here: I'm torn between "the dead will conquer Paris" meaning either that Ragnar's gonna end up flinging a bunch of dead bodies over the castle walls and waging biological warfare against the Franks, or more abstractly, Athelstan's faith and Ragnar's familiarity with it will come into play. Personally, I'm hoping for the latter, simply because I think that's a more interesting path to take. Still, though, I'm puzzled over what Ragnar said after Athelstan's "funeral," when he put on the cross and asked that Athelstan forgive him not for what he had done, but for what he was about to do. Did he mean solely the raid on Paris, with which Athelstan had clearly been enamored? Given that Athelstan was feeding him information about Paris's defenses and layout knowing full well that Ragnar was planning a raid, I don't think he was that concerned about the city being attacked. And given that Ragnar's a man of few words and never seems to speak without a purpose, I refuse to think that was just a throwaway line. Instead, I'm thinking he means to use Christianity to get his foot in the door, so to speak, and lay the seeds of ruin from within that way.

All those are Indo-European languages, but they split off into very different groups. Romance languages (Latin, Spanish, French, Italian, etc.) are quite different from Germanic languages (German, obviously, but also Dutch, various Scandinavian languages, English, etc). At the time in which this show takes place, Germanic languages, particularly Old Norse, were still very similar to Old English, so they would have been able to understand each other reasonably well. Probably not fluently, but they shared more similarities than differences. Old French, meanwhile, was very different, simply because it evolved out of an entirely different branch of the I-E language family. Essentially, Romance languages spread west and somewhat east (Romania, I think), while Germanic languages spread north and northwest. Many of the Saxons Ragnar and co. have interacted with at this point aren't that far removed from their mainland predecessors. In a pre-telecommunications, pre-mass media world, linguistic changes were much slower to take hold than they are now. tl; dr: Old Norse and Old English were much, much more similar to each other than Old Norse and Old French. For Old Norse and Old English, I'd imagine it's a bit like trying to read Chaucer in the original Middle English. It's not impossible, but it definitely takes some close attention, and there are some things you're just not going to be able to understand. Meanwhile, for Old Norse and Old French, it'd be like trying to figure out a Latin text without any prior Latin experience whatsoever, not even the borrowed words that eventually came into the English language via the Normans. For trivia's sake, I was in the midst of studying German when I had my first exposure to Beowulf in the original Old English. I was pretty surprised that it was easier for me to read than others in my class -- not because it made any sense whatsoever in English as we know it today, but solely because I was studying German hardcore at the time.

This. For the life of me, I couldn't understand why they all went charging down the hall. I mean, they had to know something was amiss, right? Maybe they were hoping the walls had been breached enough that those soldiers had been pulled out to help defend against the larger viking force on the water, but did they really think they'd leave such a vital entry point so completely open? Much as it pains me to say it, I'm kind of glad that Lagertha didn't see it coming and had to be rescued from her own stubbornness/bravery/whatever. Don't get me wrong; it's still my life goal to one day be as awesome as she is. But given how perfect she's been throughout the series, she was kind of in danger of becoming a Mary Sue-type figure with no flaws, the one everyone loves. I'm glad to see that even the viking queen of my heart is human and is capable of bad judgment now and then. Someone back on the first page asked if the budget had gone up. I was thinking the exact same thing while watching this (actually, while watching the earlier scenes in Wessex, and particularly Paris, due to the gorgeous costumes). I remember watching the first couple episodes back in season one and laughing at the godawful CGI that was supposed to make it look like they were sailing on an open ocean when it was obvious they were in a "boat" in a pool. The production values now compared to then are just staggering. It's such a pretty show. Sometimes I think I watch it as much for the scenery and costumes as for the characters and plot. As others have pointed out, I should clarify my earlier point about rooting for the Parisians. Initially, I was absolutely on their side. They were the victims of an unprovoked attack. I also had a hard time watching the raids on Lindisfarm and Northumbria in general back in season one for the same reason. But as the raid continued and it became obvious that the Franks were more than capable of defending themselves, I did start to feel bad for Team Vikings. Not enough to negate the fact that, yeah, they totally attacked a heavily fortified city without fully understanding the enemy and that their attack was unprovoked, but still.

I think that was the emperor, quaking in his fancy slippers. I hope this isn't Ragnar's last season. Love him, hate him, or love to hate him, I really think the show would suffer without him. Still, though, as pointed out above, peeing or coughing blood is never a good sign. Both at the same time, though? Yeah. You're in some deep trouble.

Is it just me, or does anyone else want to see the French princess get some subtitles going? When she was screaming while hoisting the banner, I could barely understand anything she said. Also, is it bad that I was rooting for the Parisians the entire time? As long as Lagertha, Ragnar, and Rollo made it out, that is. Damn. Lagertha drives a hard bargain. Poor Ragnar, STILL mourning his lost boyfriend.

Hey, it worked for Gandalf at Edoras. It can work for Ragnar. ...that totally makes Floki Grima Wormtongue. I guess it was a camp wife thing? I have no idea if vikings did this, but women often went along with armies (and "armies") to serve as cooks, seamstresses, laundresses, etc. But it does seem weird that this is the first time we've seen her go along on a raid. I was going to say maybe it was because Paris is the farthest Ragnar's group has gone, but that doesn't make sense because it's basically the same distance as Wessex.