arc
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I liked it even though I generally don't like body horror stuff.
5 hours ago, Galileo908 said:A gloriously stupid episode. I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
"Gloriously stupid" is exactly right.
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8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:
It was also interesting that Loki was using time travel inside the TVA to try to fix things since I was previously wondering why they didn't or couldn't do that.
There was something earlier in the season that said there are "dampers" or something that prevented Loki and Sylvie from using magic inside the TVA. Presumably similar tech prevents time travel inside the TVA, which is why OB thought time slipping shouldn't be possible in there.
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I don't think this interview with Dan Harmon and new (since season 5) showrunner Scott Marder was posted here yet:
QuoteRick and Morty’s Dan Harmon and Scott Marder are trusting the process for season 7
[...][Dan Harmon:] [...] Scott came on this show late in season 4. He was hired to start running things for season 5, and the first sign that he had bit off more than his therapist could chew was that he had to help us finish season 4, which just wasn’t what he was hired to do, you know?
[...]
And what does your “fine” look and feel like now having gone through therapy?
DH: I can go home at 5PM, and what that requires is trust and delegation and acquiescence. I’m not able to pull the breaks on the show. I’m still the reason why the show isn’t as on schedule as it could be, but I no longer get to be the reason why it literally stops down while I finish a pass on a script or something like that.
Therapy taught me: start with this one simple step: set your hours. Because if you don’t, this city will suck your life dry, and when it results in your divorce, or your suicide, or you’re drinking yourself to death, this city will say, “Who’s the next workaholic? Get him over here.”
And how do you guard against that?
DH: If you set boundaries for yourself, it actually starts to benefit the people around you because it means that you have to trust them, you have to communicate with them, and you have to accept leadership from them. Scott is my boss, and at the end of the day, we rely on people like Heather Anne Campbell for our darkness; she’s got enough for everybody.
SM: She taps it well.
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On 11/19/2023 at 8:27 PM, Galileo908 said:
And oh no, Churry is gonna be the new Evil Morty, isn't he?
Blech. I sure hope not. Why didn't Rick just give Churry some new brought-to-life churro friends? It's not like they could reproduce.
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I guess the benefit of casting Pascal is it leaves young Reed open for later in case they want to do the supervillain (comics spoilers)
SpoilerThe Maker, who is pretty new as comics characters go, but he’s certainly a pretty good super-smart supervillain.
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I don’t think even most comics fans read every single Marvel comic every month. Hell, considering the longtime problem that too many of their heroes are concentrated in NYC, it’s been a longstanding issue that, for example, Daredevil should ask for the Avengers’ help, etc, and usually doesn’t. He doesn’t because it’s the Daredevil comic most of the time and the company’s output isn’t literally only company-wide crossovers all the time. The “it’s all connected but also not that connected” is just part of how the superhero universe genre works. =/
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1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:
I think an older Reed Richards could work. He is supposed to be the smartest man in the world a guy with multiple Ph.D's. Having that guy be like 30 would be kind of dumb to me. I always hate it on movies/TV where the world's most accomplished doctor or something is like a guy who is like 28. Plus Jack Kirby drew Reed Richards as a guy whose hair was going grey.
Marvel Comics has precedent for teen geniuses, from RiRi Williams to Shuri to Amadeus Cho. And in the Ultimate comics line that initially inspired the first phase of the MCU, Reed Richards was like barely out of high school or something. Definitely appallingly young.
Also, it's another way to highlight that a character is super duper smart: big words coming out of a teen.
But mainly as a practical matter, Marvel Studios usually wants someone who can and will play a role for a good long run, if they're a lynchpin character. They had Hiddleston for over a dozen years.
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Daniel Destin Cretton to direct future Marvel projects, still working on Wonder Man and Shang-Chi 2... but will no longer direct Kang Dynasty:
https://deadline.com/2023/11/marvel-destin-daniel-cretton-avengers-kang-dynasty-exits-1235612901/
Given the end of Loki s2 where
SpoilerLoki beats (the Kang variant) He Who Remains and fully takes over maintaining the multiverse
I can see how Loki s2 was intended to lay the groundwork for Kang but ended up also allowing Marvel to pivot away from Kang entirely. Who knows, maybe the train is moving too fast to change tracks now, but a May 2026 premiere date seems juuuuuust far enough away that Marvel could pivot (recast Kang, switch to a different Big Bad altogether). Maybe Cretton really didn't have time, or maybe Marvel really is changing directions for this movie in a way he didn't want to continue with.
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On 11/14/2023 at 10:19 AM, tv-talk said:
So could Thor have done this instead? Or anyone from Asgard as they are called Gods? And can all of them time travel just by thinking it? Also how did Thanos simply strangle Loki to death if he is a God, the same way Hulk could have beaten him to death easily?
Thor is very, very tough. As far as I dimly understand it — I still have never watched Thor 1 & 2 — all Asgardian are superhumanly strong and durable, but some like Thor are much more so than the average Asgardian. (Remember Hela mowed down Asgardian armies by herself.)
There’s an unrelated sci fi book series “Jumper” where one guy can teleport and then people who’ve ridden along enough times will spontaneously develop the power themselves. Maybe Loki’s time slipping -> consciously controlled time travel worked the same way.
Thanos is extremely tough. He soloed Cap, Iron Man, and Thor with two hammers. Just cause Loki is Frost Giant tough doesn’t mean he’s impervious to all harm.
Also, I believe Loki has a lot more magical training than Thor. As far as I know, Thor mostly performs magic through his hammers, and mostly just to change outfits.
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19 hours ago, Raja said:
A full out Bollywood style dance break was called for
Plus, Vellani is great as a dancer. I mean, I don't know about technical skill, but she was so watchable and clearly having fun during the little bits of dance in Ms Marvel. I figured when I first saw the singing and dancing planet in the trailers that they put it in there to play to one of her strengths.
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1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:
Pretty sure what OB understood about the loom was all a lie and only what HWR said this episode was the truth.
Ah. TBH I kinda glossed over some of that HWR monologuing the first time. Whoops =)
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1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:
When the loom overloads because there are too many timelines, it deletes all timelines but the sacred one.
My understanding was that under HWR's system, the loom was necessary for even the Sacred Timeline to exist, and when it broke, it destroyed the entire multiverse (including the ST) and the TVA. You'd think this would end all timelines/alt universes from start to finish such that they never existed at all, but the show got really loose with the rules here, because once the loom exploded at the end of episode 4 ("Heart of the TVA") Loki time slipped away, and then eventually time slipped back to the TVA, which he and OB/Doug agreed no longer existed at all. (As Doug said in ep 5, there is no time in the TVA, which kinda squares with the TVA sitting outside time altogether while also contradicting the fact that time clearly passes in a linear fashion within the TVA, though most TVA employees don't really know that since they get periodically memory wiped).
So HWR's 'failsafe' was that anyone who killed him would thus allow infinite branching to destroy the loom and thus all universes, and he believed no one could accept that tradeoff. Loki wouldn't either, but he found an alternate path to just killing Sylvie to save HWR.
16 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:Shouldn't destroying the loom have freed all the timelines?
OB said the loom processes 'raw time' into the sacred timeline. Without it, (handwaving fan speculation starts here) I guess raw time has too much 'temporal radiation' so the timelines break down, spaghettifying the way Timely did at the end of ep 4.
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5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:
Once again, the tag felt like it was far removed from the main plot, though seeing the wife of (a) Slow Mobius settling down with someone else Rick Prime hurt made for a nice epilogue for the episode.
Many Ricks have a nihilistic view of humanity, and the show too a lot of times. So it's nice to see that instead of birthing another endless cycle of revenge (as Evil Morty suggested would happen to him if he used the cross-universe nullifier weapon), the widow Mobius moved on.
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Personally, I'm tickled that Lashana Lynch's character was killed offscreen (in Wandavision) after her first Marvel movie and then Lynch has been in two more MCU projects since (Doctor Strange 2 and this one) with a pretty good chance to be in at least one more.
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6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:
Who do we have for the young Avengers? Kamala, Kate and Cassie. I guess Hulk's son, and Iron heart. Wanda's twins are supposed to be in it. I guess it depends on if they exist.
And an outside chance they add Miles Morales if the MCU kinda merges Young Avengers with Champions plus if they can swing the deal with Sony. Honestly, now that I say it, I think it might happen but not for a first Young Avengers movie because I can’t imagine Sony introducing Miles in time.
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1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:
Good movie. I don't have D+, so I'm lost on some things . . . like how Kamala knows about Carol in the first place. Not like there were cameras present during Carol's big entrance in Endgame, right?
Well, diehard MCU fans know Scott Lang wrote a book (which Disney actually made into a real thing). But also, if Carol is famous all over the universe, she's probably famous on Earth. The Ms Marvel show actually had an "AvengerCon" where it was heavily implied the whole world knows a lot about the events of Infinity War and Endgame.
Actually, I gotta say, Kamala was also created in the comics as a fan of Carol Danvers' Captain Marvel, but I don't think in the comics Captain Marvel dropped an enormous capital ship on New Jersey, which I would think might have sapped some of her approval rating, at least in NJ.
This reminds me of a science nitpick I had. As Tarnax is getting destroyed, Carol smashes some falling concrete. This is not a great way to save people underneath from getting crushed! A block of concrete that large is many tons. Even if she smashed it so hard it completely turned to dust, you know how much all that dust weighs in aggregate? The same amount of tons! To be fair, it probably spreads out a little more and slows down more thanks to atmospheric drag, but probably not enough to not flatten the people underneath. (Then again, I guess Skrulls are superhuman, with enhanced durability plus the ability to shapeshift, possibly into crush-resistant forms?) Anyways, this is a common occurrence in superhero comics and every writer seems to think a big falling thing getting smashed just disappears like videogame detritus.
My other science nitpick is treating interstellar distances -- or intergalactic!!! -- as so meaningless that everything more or less happens at the same time. Hell, Carol has a live audio call with Fury from many light years away. Again, I know this happens a lot in genre fiction and in the MCU.
1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:ETA: What is the next MCU movie? Or will we be getting a break from those?
It was just announced that Disney would be hitting a major pause button on most of their MCU output. Deadpool is now the only MCU movie scheduled for 2024; many others have moved to 2025.
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10 hours ago, Affogato said:
Is variant Moebius going to lurk watching the sacred timeline Moebius raise his kids and sell jetskis?
Technically, the Mobius that we know of with a regular life is on a branched timeline, according to episode 5. Who knows what sacred timeline Mobius is doing <shrug>. (For my own headcanon, I'm going to say that actual TVA staffers are outside the timelines altogether.)
It seemed to me like TVA Mobius has accepted that his role in the (multi)universe is to work at the TVA. It is a little bleak that it doesn't seem like they have personal lives though. The s1 TVA probably didn't have vacations, or else Mobius would have just gone jetskiing on his own.
22 hours ago, KerleyQ said:Ravonna is at the end of time and could potentially have a conversation with HWR, where she finds out that Miss Minutes's version of events does not match up with his version.
Ravonna's just an ordinary human though. Loki and Sylvie only made it through to HWR thanks to the heroic interventions of Old Loki and his magic. And also, apparently per this episode, because HWR had intended them to get there.
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12 minutes ago, Raja said:
don't think Earth's sun was able to be stolen as the Marvel's stopped that before the Kree could finish.
Oh, indeed, but it dimmed visibly. (I mean if you really want to get into the science of it, siphoning off the surface of the sun just gets you some hot plasma; the fusion happens much deeper inside and at much hotter temperatures.)
16 minutes ago, Raja said:The other two planets where the peace talks were to take place and the husband's twice as much water as we have world world I assume are gone.
The peace talks planet was also where the Skrulls set up their refugee camp. As the Skrull leader said, they had nowhere else to go. It certainly looked destroyed. But who knows, maybe Hala didn't need all of the water world's water.
18 minutes ago, Raja said:I could even pick at nits that didn't fit the Ms. Marvel show when looking at how the Khan's reacted to hearing "aunt Carol" with a joke about families when in their own show we had the non family "illumin-aunties" and every man of the next generation was uncle.
I dunno how Pakistanis do it, but in the slice of Chinese-Canadian culture I know, we almost never say "aunt" in English. We say "auntie" in English all the time, for non-family aunties. But somehow "aunt" would be reserved for family relations. (But a brief websearch suggests this distinction is common usage in many cultures and countries.)
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I liked it. Call it an 8/10. Something made a bunch of lines feel forced... Probably a victim of severe cutting for time?
As with the first Captain Marvel movie, I'm both extremely amused and disappointed with the toothlessness of the central metaphor for imperialism and colonialism. There was so much potential in the first movie about a displaced population, refugees from Kree wars of conquest. And here, how very on the nose that a colonial power now faces self inflicted ecological catastrophe and proposes to fix it by stealing resources. Speaking of which, they fixed the hole in reality that Dar-Benn caused, and Carol fixed Gala's sun and presumably Earth's as well, but what about the stolen water and air? Was the Skrull refugee planet fully destroyed? Are they being hosted by the Asgardians in exile on Earth?
I did like the leads a lot. And the joyful cheesiness of Kamala stealing Nick Fury's recruiting bit. And it was nice to see Kate Bishop again. But, and I realize Marvel has had its pedal to the metal debuting new series and movies, it still feels like there's a legit chance it could be another five years before the studio actually launches a Young Avengers/Champions film.
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If Loki had hundreds of years to learn time science, couldn't he have worked with OB to make the gangway shorter? Or install a moving sidewalk? Or a catapult?
It's kind of super BS that the suit is attached by a huge hose but there's not even a retrieval system. Even if the wearer has to run all the way out there under their own power, there should be a winch to pull them back.
The mid-episode conversation with HWR is actually quite reminiscent of an old issue of Legion of Super-Heroes (from DC). In it, the Time Trapper, a villain who controls time and lives at the end of time himself, told the hero Mon-El that he had orchestrated their reality to create the Legion, etc, and thus was the author of Mon-El's entire life. And when Mon-El decided he'd still be willing to kill the Trapper, the Trapper told him that doing so would retroactively erase the Time Trapper from the timeline altogether, completely resetting the universe. (Then the next episode was with a weird alt universe where some other villain had taken over the universe by the 30th century, and then that reality was rewritten when they recruited someone to step into the vacant role of the former Time Trapper.) Bonus: the Time Trapper even wears a purple robe too.
Meanwhile, Loki sitting on the throne reminded me of the DC/Vertigo comic Lucifer, wherein the throne of heaven (the "Primum Mobile") is vacated by God and so reality itself begins to unravel, until a suitable heir can be found to sit upon it again and take up the role.
OK, anyways. So now Loki's fixed the timestream by sitting on the throne, HWR is dead, Sylvie's alive, and the TVA's main job is tracking down HWR variants? I think that's a decent enough season finale. Or even series finale, though I hope we'll see Loki one more time.
4 hours ago, Valerie said:Loki's new costume looks great.
Ahahahaha, the MCU continues its streak of having the TV shows debut new costumes. (I guess Loki S1 kinda didn't?)
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6 hours ago, Athena said:
Our technology has not reached a level where fake meat is as "good" as real meat. I don't think Rick could do it either or didn't want to.
Over the seasons, the show has gradually tried to put some soft limits on Rick. But I still feel like if Rick could genetically engineer torsos from the Planet Spaghettians, he could have synthesized a molecule for molecule replacement.
Separately, it strikes me now that modern vacuums are largely bagless, to the point that many stores that sell vacuum cleaners don’t even sell bags anymore. Maybe the sentient vacuum cleaners have eliminated bagless vacuum mutations.
I wonder if Morty’s promise was a promise from the writers to stop doing the “Morty raises an ethical objection and then doing it more ethically blows up on him” plot or just the subset that starts with Rick doing something mysterious.
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Y'know, this "alien makes delicious thing in horrible way" factory is very reminiscent of Futurama's Slurm factory episode. I guess the difference is that one didn't really put a whole lot of moral dilemmas on Fry and co.
Also, I'm not sure I buy that suicide is the only way to have started the spaghettification process. Rick said it was due to cortisol levels. If he can genetically engineer brainless torsos, surely he could have just given them baseline super high levels of cortisol.
I liked the tag a lot.
7 hours ago, Galileo908 said:But man...that ending was heavy. There's a reason we don't want to see how the food is made. We wouldn't eat it.
Come to think of it, the ep was a fairly thin metaphor for industrial scale animal husbandry, sooooo =/
Also, I'm not sure the plot fully hangs together. If the universe as a whole rejects Morty-O's Spaghetti on moral or ethical concerns, why would they also reject a synthesized duplicate that doesn't have any of those concerns? In the real world I'm sure some vegetarians have aesthetic reasons for rejecting Impossible Burgers, but surely the ethical concerns are adequately addressed, right?
I guess then again, the question would be why would Rick sign over the rights to the spaghetti to Spaghetti Planet, or even why wouldn't it be synthesizable by the universe at large anyways.
Which reminds me of how I vaguely understand the last few books of the Dune series go, where among other things eventually the mad scientists of that universe manage to synthesize "spice" and forever end any monopoly on spice.
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6 hours ago, tv-talk said:
Point being, time and reality dont stop because you step into the TARDIS or thru Loki's little door, time keeps moving forward for the people you know- just without you there.
Yeah, but like Bruce said about time travel in Endgame, that timeline is effectively wiped out when you time travel back and replace the missing thing as if it had never left. (And, given this show, I guess the TVA prunes divergent timelines.)
If the actors' ages are the characters' (bio) ages, then Casey is 12 years younger than Mobius but actually he's 48 years older than Mobius, as ”Frank” was plucked out of 1962. Time travel!
The time loom breaking down and threatening all of existence implies it's foundational to reality, which raises the question of how it was ever built in a universe that didn't initially have one.
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As Maya is Choctaw and the show was made in consultation with the Choctaw Nation, the first two episodes were screened for Choctaw Nation's annual powwow: https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/echo-screening-choctaw-day-celebration
Marvel also announced Spotlight:
QuoteEcho will be the first series under the Marvel Spotlight banner, and Head of Streaming Brad Winderbaum said of the decision to launch the new banner with Echo, “Marvel Spotlight gives us a platform to bring more grounded, character-driven stories to the screen, and in the case of Echo, focusing on street-level stakes over larger MCU continuity. Just like comics fans didn’t need to read Avengers or Fantastic Four to enjoy a Ghost Rider Spotlight comic, our audience doesn’t need to have seen other Marvel series to understand what’s happening in Maya’s story.”
Now What...? Spoilers for What If...?
in What If...?
The (possibly fake) episode titles for s2: