loveigniting

Kind of like Lex and Oliver and Chloe, too, then? None of them should have been anywhere on this show in Clark's teen years and Chloe should never have existed. The qualities that she had that a lot of people define her by (her teen journalism days, her unrequited love for Clark, even her darker edge) were stolen from comics!Lana. Lana on the show is mostly an amalgamation that didn't really exist before Smallville. Lois is the second oldest character in the story (6 pages behind Clark) and if she doesn't belong there, the aforementioned characters definitely don't belong. I loved Lois. I didn't love everything they did with her, but I loved her. Majority of comic book fans and writers who have an opinion about Smallville say, and I agree, that Erica's Lois was the closest to comics!Lois, yes, even some of the comic relief stuff. She's a hard to like, divisive, flawed character, especially when the hard shell is all we see. I didn't like her entry into journalism or her lack of ambition in the beginning, but it didn't hugely bother me. Part of the way Lois has been defined in the mainstream was copied for another placeholder character and DC had restrictions on when she was allowed to move through her paces to become the . Besides, working at a high school newspaper isn't the be all and end all of how career journeys start, nor is it indicative of certain future in journalism, and eventually Lois did work to get to where she needed to be. She didn't sit at a computer and google, which has never been how Lois Lane traditionally investigates. Lois went out and jumped completely into the fray. As for her entry into journalism, Perry came on the show and a tractor falling out of the sky led to his revitalization. He was also working for a tabloid show. Lois followed a similar trajectory so the double standards are hilarious to me and will never stop being hilarious and transparent. I didn't mind that she didn't go to college. Neither did anyone on this show - there was some rando line about Chloe taking night classes (lol ok which we never saw and ever heard about again and I'm going to dismiss that the same way people dismiss Lois having taken journalism classes) and I'm usually side-eying people who act elitist about the importance and merit of a college education especially in this day and age. I hated her Grant storyline - Teri's Lois also had an affair at work, but I didn't like that either. I loved that Lois never killed anyone nor advocated murder. Literally the only character on the show (excepting maybe Martha & Jonathan though Reckoning exists) with that strange distinction but oddly fitting. Comics writers say that Lois is eternally consistent in her morality and she is and she was on Smallville. Mostly, I loved Lois casually but the fandom and its double standards towards The One Acceptable Female Character (usually an everywoman white geek girl) versus every other female character somehow in competition for a place and sometimes a man, its misogyny, and its slutshaming (towards the character and the actress) made me strident in my love for the character. Never ever here for the basic transparent mess of the Smallville fandom. People act/acted as if Lois Lane was a title that someone could earn. Lol no son. Chloe told Clark that he should kill Lex and she justified it by calling him a god. She implied that he was godlike enough to be beyond the rules of human morality such as murder. She justified people maybe killing to protect Clark and compared his situation to how God (capital letter intentional) must have felt during the crusades. In 9x01, Clark told Chloe that he wasn't a god when she asked him to go back and save Jimmy. Now, she didn't explicitly say it, but Clark reacted like she did. So, according to this vein of thinking, Chloe did see Clark as a god too. Here's two of the aforementioned examples: Both from 7x19: Clark: What do you want me to do, Chloe? Kill him? If I do that, I'd just be turning into him myself. Chloe: Whether you like being on this pedestal or not, you were put in this position. And someday, you're gonna have to play god. Clark: Chloe, the person who did this may have kidnapped Lex. Chloe: If they did, they only did it to save you. Clark: That's the last thing I need ... someone going around killing people in my name. Chloe: That's probably how god felt about the crusades. And even while Lois talked about Clark's godlike caliber during their door scene in the finale, she very clearly mentioned he had baggage he came with. I didn't see that as awful. She didn't compare Clark to God (capital letters intentional) and try to justify murderous actions people were doing to protect Clark. She didn't tell him to kill anyone or expect him to kill anyone because he's God and beyond the constraints of human morality. In a manner, Clark is of godlike caliber - he's a man with such great powers and he uses it for good. That doesn't mean Lois worshipped him as God. She was softer during their relationship in the latter half of S10 (there were two episodes that felt pretty off to me but typically Lois is softer around Clark than anyone else) but she didn't do everything he wanted. She didn't expect him to be beyond rules of human morality. And, she only changed her mind in the finale when her insecurities were allayed and she was convinced it was the right thing to do. Lois in the conversation with Chloe, in the same way as Chloe in Savior, doesn't imply godhood but she goes on about her own insecurities. I found it understandable but misguided. And, she certainly didn't say Clark should disavow all human contact, but that she didn't want to be the reason why someone died or someone got hurt. After walking in Clark's shoes, she had a clearer idea of what he heard everyday. I found it hilarious that Chloe jumped to the 'he's not a god' line of thought though because of the way she acted towards him for years and the way she behaved in s9 after their distance, as if her god had turned his back on her. I wonder when she came around to the idea that Clark doesn't just need to be a distant Kryptonian savior (which she supported and pushed in early s9) because we never saw that. Maybe she saw it when she put on Fate's helmet on something. Anyways, in the end, it was Clark's words and their talk that convinced Lois, not Chloe's explanations (tho it was all just a way to create drama for the episode) Tbh, this show and Superman mythology in general go overboard with the god allusions, especially the Jesus ones, even when it's justified. This is getting to be shipper talk and lmao I remember the other site too and the environment there so I'm gonna leave it because it's not worth it. The show's over. I would have made different choices with Lois sometimes but, for the most part, I adored her. I adored her in early seasons a lot when we didn't see behind the facade and I loved her a lot in the latter seasons when we saw behind the mask Lois put up. Comics writer Kurt Busiek had a quote about Lois masking a warm heart and so did Dean Cain IIRC - I think the latter said that the hard shell Lois puts up early on isn't who she is underneath and I agree with that for all Lois(es) and for Erica's Lois as well.

I grew to dislike her so much. I hated the way fandom valorized her, even while she was being *problematic* and I hated how they maligned and slut-shamed other female characters in favor of Chloe. This pattern continues on in shows like Arrow. It's the everywoman, the ostensible relatable girl. It's almost always the blonde white geek girl that the hero just doesn't see. It's T. Swift's You Belong With Me in all its problematic ways played out in the form of Chloe's Fever letter where she insinuates Lana's lack of worth; it's the myth of the Other Girl. I read this meta on tumblr about the One Acceptable Female Character and the fandom sociological reasons for the archetypes that usually fall prey to this syndrome. It illuminated Chloe's character and her treatment by fandom for me. Most of the below opinions about Chloe would be different if the show hadn't glossed over or whitewashed these actions. I adore dark characters as long as the narrative isn't muddled about what they are. I hated Chloe being whitewashed for actual shit she did. I hated that she could rarely take responsibility for her role in huge catastrophic events, or rather, the show wouldn't let her. I somehow ended up watching the Doomsday arc recently and I'm still flabbergasted at how Chloe neatly divided the blame for that between her and Clark and how she even blamed Clark's moral compass for Doomsday. Honey child. I almost became a lawyer and I can tell you for a fact that's not how it works. Clark intended to split Doomy and Davis but Clark was writhing on a floor when Chloe split Davis and Doomy. She (and others) sabotaged every one of Clark's plans to deal with Doomsday during that S8 arc and then assigned him half the blame/blamed his moral compass after it turned out horribly. I cannot. I hated that she was harboring and covering up the murders of a serial killer. I hated her stance on murder - I remember her telling Clark to kill Lex in 7x19 by claiming Clark was a god, implying that he was beyond the rules of human morality such as murder. I hated that she tried to argue for Clark to kill Lex in s8. I hated that she killed Sebastian. She was infected by Brainiac, but Brainiac had nothing to gain from killing Sebastian and Chloe did. The Oliver scenes where he calls her out and she weakly says it was Brainiac and then goes along with covering it up is what created ambiguity for me - I was willing to write off Sebastian as mainly Brainiac's influence before that. Since Sebastian could be argued as ambiguous, I don't completely hold Chloe's feet to the fire for that one, but her actions lined up with the way the character was going and did go - doing something to protect Clark even if it was something he would disapprove of. The below quote is from a few episodes prior to Sebastian's death: Smallville 7x19 Clark: Chloe, the person who did this may have kidnapped Lex. Chloe: If they did, they only did it to save you. Clark: That's the last thing I need ... someone going around killing people in my name. Chloe: That's probably how god felt about the crusades. I hated her for downplaying the deal with Lionel to Clark in Whisper and to Pauline Kahn in Thirst by removing all responsibility and agency from herself and transferring it to Lionel — insinuating that she was blackmailed when she made the deal of her own choice. I hated that she sold out her BFF and got a Daily Planet column in return for her services to Lionel...all because she was greedy and because she saw Clark/Lana together. I don't blame her for getting in over her head with Lionel after the fact but the deal that no one coerced her into making? Yeah, that I take issue with, especially since her reasons for the deal were so so sad. Clark didn't need Chloe's permission to date Lana. Chloe even told Lana to go for Clark, but apparently, when she did, she offended Chloe somehow. She wanted them to be completely honest with her and when they weren't, she turned around and gave into Lionel. If this was a man behaving this way, I know I'd have called this shit out when it aired. This storyline is what makes me cackle when people act like Chloe was character assassinated later on in the show. I hated the Nice Guy crap she pulled with Clark and Lana. It's not cute when it's a girl doing it - no one is entitled to anyone's love or affection, period. I hated her behavior with Lana when Lana was forced to be editor of the Torch - she acted like Lana was trying to steal Clark and the Torch away from her...and Lana was supposedly her friend. I hated her telling Clark to play God repeatedly and when he refused to do it for her with Jimmy, she said that he wasn't human anymore. I hated the Big Brother crap she pulled because the show never actually went full tilt with it and, then, it was all swept under the rug, including her role in Doomsday. I hated that she embezzled money from Oliver which was something Lana was vilified for on the show. But not our little Chloe. I hated that she put cameras all over Clark's house and listened to his private calls, but when Lana spied on Lex , Chloe came down on her for it. But when Chloe does it, it's okay or something. Other than Clark's outrage, the narrative tried to validate some of that mess. SMH. And as per this thread title, lmao no son. She wasn't Lois at all. Beyond the inherent Lois traits that exist in Lois(es) regardless of whether they work at a newspaper or love a Superman, Lois wouldn't advocate cold-blooded murder or tell a Superman to do it. Chloe told Clark to kill Lex in S7 and S8 IIRC. Lois wouldn't walk away from saving someone's life, even someone she hated, like Chloe did when she was going to let Tess die, even while telling her earlier that she would save her life. As if any Lois would believe that the ends justify the means, which Chloe clearly does. In versions where Lois has been briefly involved with Bruce Wayne, she disdains Batman's methods. In an Elseworlds story where Clark is found by the Waynes and becomes Batman, he meets a Lois who scorns his brutality. Chloe, however, even says to Oliver in Roulette that the psychological torture she put him through was 'what needed to be done' and later, she implies that she aligns with 'doing what's necessary' versus 'doing what's right.' Watching Arrow in S6 showed that that type of thinking was not new to Chloe. She agreed with the Green Arrow's 'ends justify the means' methods which he himself spelled out to Clark in a scene earlier. The show made mistakes with Lois for sure but that would only make her a poor Lois. It wouldn't transform Chloe into Lois. LMAO at that basic mess. I know Lois Lane. I've read pretty much everything Lois since I was five years old. Chloe was no Lois. The person Chloe was most similar to, at least early on, was actually pre-crisis Lana down to the teenage journalism and the unrequited feelings towards Clark. Funnily, comics!Lana was originally a copy of Lois, but she of course grew out of that and went on to have her own stories. Chloe was bits and pieces of several characters, including Pete, the Kents, Lana, Lois, Babs, and then her own person in the SV-verse. I mainly only stuck to the big issues as to why I couldn't stand Miss Chloe Sullivan. The small stuff builds up, ofc, but the big stuff is mostly what I remember. I almost almost fell in love with Chloe's story when they took her to a dark place because it felt completely consistent with the person Chloe had been becoming since S2. But, they pulled back. Like someone said, Chloe was almost the Willow Rosenberg of this show and I have such strong feelings about Dark!Willow to this day. Ah well, what could have been. I hate Joss Whedon and his laughable faux feminism sfm but at least he wasn't afraid to go there.

I'm of South Asian descent and it's pretty much the same thing. There are people in my ethnic community of an older generation (I'm in my 20's) that do think that it's a western and a white people thing. They connect it to the luxury and privilege of growing up in a first world country. They say that there weren't anybody struggling with mental health issues in their poor communities where they had to struggle to put food on the table - so they do equate it to privilege in a weird way and they ignore that just because people didn't have the money or the luxury to think about their mental health in impoverished countries doesn't mean that they weren't struggling with those issues by themselves. My youngest uncle went undiagnosed for years and people would just say he's not right in the head when he had episodes. There was and still is a stigma to the idea of therapy and meds, even among older professionals and educated people tbh. As for the show trying to indicate that these issues are specific to the black community, I'm not qualified to talk about that - but I can see where the conversation between Jamal and Ryan about black dads could irritate people regarding that issue. In any case, though this show has a majority African-American cast, it has shown that prejudices aren't specific to the black community. I really loved the short scene in 1.02 (?) where Cookie gets into a cab and the South Asian cab driver tries to wave her out with some remark about you people causing trouble and Cookie points that he's black like her, which I took to mean that his skin tone isn't that different from hers and, on a larger scale, he's still not white and will be marginalized, even if it's in a different way than Cookie. And, that anti-blackness (and colorism as well) does absolutely exist in South Asian and in non-black POC communities in general. It doesn't mean everybody of course, but it's prevalent. On a lighter note: LOL. I enjoy Hakeem so much rn. He does know that Antony and Cleopatra killed themselves, right?

coloradoqt, when the poster you were quoting was mentioning Andre's bio, they are actually talking about Andre's bio on the Fox website. It has nothing to do with Trai Byers. There's profiles on everyone. Here's Andre's which includes the info that was brought up

I don't think the plan with Jamal with was the smartest precisely because Andre didn't control and arrange the variables that could go wrong. He wanted those dudes that were hanging out with Hakeem to go to Jamal's studio and scare him but he wasn't controlling the situation, which ofc escalated. This is one of those reasonable person things they do in law. Didn't Andre think that those dudes would have pulled a gun? It doesn't make the action better but ehhh, I don't think he's the worst ever for that tbh. I would think it was far worse if he had actively arranged people to go to Jamal and if he told them to wave guns as a threat *shrugs* IDK I like Andre. I don't mind that he goes too far in trying to get his prize that he uses his brothers as pawns. I like unlikeable characters who are damaged in some way. It's always nice to see the characters who fight through adversity and victimization but on the other side of the coin, the characters who are damaged by dysfunction in some way, especially parental dysfunction, and then they act out their dysfunction are fascinating to me on a whole 'nother level. Andre's relationship with his brothers is very hard for me to decipher because all we see is distance and they don't have a lot of scenes together. Does he resent his brothers? Does he love them? I can't rightly say.

I'm glad that he got rid of the gray tbh. I didn't sleep well thinking that Sonny (ehhh let's go with MB instead) was attractive - I thought those heathenish thoughts and I wanted to scrub myself clean.

I've heard both sides of this from people I know who have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but can't psych meds affect creativity in some people living with bipolar disorder? I know for one friend it's just a matter of learning to be creative in a different way, but another definitely says that her writing is affected by being on meds as opposed to not - she said it's like walking through sludge to find that creative spark. So, I wonder if there's supposed to be a connection between Andre turning away from the creative side and him being diagnosed as bipolar. He was fine singing in the flashback, but in the present, he's completely divorced himself from anything creative and he's fixated on the idea that his lack of talent is the reason why Luscious won't give him Empire. So, I wonder if it was a conscious choice he made because of how the meds affected him. Not that that's a good reason to not take the medication obvs.

Regarding Anika being mixed, I just figured Luscious has rules for others that they can't break and that he can when it suits his purposes. It's narcissist behavior and I have a parent like that so...yeah Luscious is just the worst. At the same time, what he said to Andre wasn't invalidated by him being engaged to Anika for all the reasons people have already been saying. So YMMV. This episode was just really good. I really began to care for Hakeem in this episode. His interactions with Cookie, his support of Jamal, even his praying for his father. The kid's got a big heart and I finally see the Cookie in him. And, the Andre scenes fucked me up. I've liked him since I realized he was the unfavorite because that's a character kink of mine. I do have sympathy for Andre because I realized that he's probably modelled himself after Luscious in some ways - I wondered why Andre never went to see Cookie in prison when the show first started but as we've got to see his and Luscious' characters over the course of the show, it made sense to me. So, I do empathize with Andre a lot, what with him being bipolar and having the influence of a toxic personality like Luscious being the parent figure he looked up to. Andre's dependence and need for his father's approval/trust (?) is gonna lead to problems. He's not musically inclined and the identity he's constructed which includes the partner he's chosen has made Luscious reject him silently and treat him more like an employee rather than a son. Hakeem's never had to worry about either. And, Jamal probably knew from a young age, by his father's disapproval of him, that he was never gonna get the things he needed from Luscious so he's not going to beg for scraps. I loved Jamal's coming out - I especially loved the juxtaposition of the scared crying boy being rejected violently by his father versus the strong adult who stood in front of a crowd, including his father, and used Luscious' words to tell his own truth. 'Twas a beautiful thing. As always, I loved Cookie. At this point, I care about everyone but Luscious. His being playing by Terrence Howard just makes it easier for me to hate him tbh.

Well, there's a hierarchy. If the mobster is Sonny, you can't keep a kid away from him because he's such a ~good father~ Next, there's your average mobster. You can keep a kid away from them as long as they're not Sonny. Then, there is everyone else. Sometimes, it's IMPERATIVE that you keep a kid away from these people. They might grow up neurotic and law-abiding, for the most part. It's a public service. ETA: I cackled at Emma's one fake tear in the preview. If only Spencer would die for real. My relationship with Spencer has become much like mine with his long-dead mother.

I'd...be into it. It's been a while since GH has done a marriage of convenience, right? Though, I don't know what Sabrina would get out of it. Anyways, I've been meh on all Michael pairings - I liked Michael/Starr for a minute ( go ahead you can judge me) but my attention shifted quickly. I'm sure Ron would be horrible at writing a romance arc for them if he went there, but I can headcanon cute stuff, which is what I do with this show anyway.

My roommate and I started cackling when Luscious said he loved Cookie with Annika sitting next to him. I don't even hate the girl, but after that Elle nonsense, she deserved all of what she got.

The Fox website has a section called the Lyons' Den where they profile characters. Here is the bit on Rhonda: NYC Power Couple to Watch: Andre and Rhonda Lyon Here's the bit specifically about her background:

Everytime Spencer utters the word 'townie', I want to throw him off a parapet.

Cool story. I know what that history is and it doesn't make me side-eye Scott any less just because it's in character for him. It just makes me think he's kinda basic. And, no one's asking for a rape survivor training film if they point out Laura's continued victimization. As if this show uses its history properly or if it resembles a complex nuanced narrative lmao. As to the show today, I continue to hate everything to do with Fluke and with Jake. I'm glad that they're in cells next to each other so that I can FF them both at the same time. Ric looks good, though. Maxie's hair looks stupid as hell. I think I liked Nathan and his earnestness for a minute when he brought up Georgie. I'm not a baby person at all but Sonny holding that innocent baby just seems gross.

LOL that reminds me. Morgan saying that his dad's not a liar reminds me of when he said that his father's not violent towards women. Oh, you foolish child. It's like you don't even know him at all.