NumberCruncher
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Posts posted by NumberCruncher
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1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:
Well, as long as they expressed regret, I guess it's totally okay that they pretended to be Native Americans and murdered 100+ people. Apparently their regret didn't extend to turning themselves in for the horrific crime they committed. Since Haight took Frank in after the massacre, are we supposed to assume that's Haight expressing regret for what he did and making Frank an orphan?
Wow. Clearly you missed it when I said this:
On 11/27/2017 at 8:26 PM, NumberCruncher said:I'll preface my next comments by saying I absolutely do not excuse Haight's behavior at all and condemn it without exception...
...but sure, I was definitely saying what happened was okay. So sorry for trying to comment on historic plausibility.
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2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:
Disney does R rated they just release it under a different studio (Miramax?). Hell, Punisher certainly is an R Marvel show. I'll wait and see how they handle it.
Disney also released plenty of R-rated movies under the Hollywood Pictures banner during its heyday back in the 90s.
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2 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:
Nice to have Depeche Mode's World In My Eyes playing. Makes me want to get the soundtrack now.
I thought the same thing! I would love it to be included in the soundtrack (which isn't usually the case with trailer music). All I know is that the story being a giant homage to all things 80s, this movie better have a kick-ass soundtrack.
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10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:
So now Letty is a stone murderer. The house is in her name. Obviously, LE will never guess she is involved in the murder/disappearance of a security dude hired to secure her house.
A killer, yes. Not a murderer. In Teo's case, that was straight-up self defense as Letty feared for her own life. I think an strong argument can be made it was manslaughter for the security guy since she was clearly panicked and didn't intend to kill him. Murder would require premeditation, no?
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33 minutes ago, Trini said:
The fact that Arrow has more seasons to sell could also be a factor.
Except that's not how Amazon rankings work. The rankings are based on individual seasons, not the show in general. I suspect that it has more to do with Arrow's audience skewing older than the other CW shows. Basically, older audience = more disposable income = higher sales.
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The best part of Stephen's video is where he mentions how "asinine" the whole fanbase competition is and how that shouldn't detract from appreciating what these fans did. Raising $7K for charitable purposes should be celebrated, not mocked. You can go back to hating whatever else you want about the show but don't crap over people doing something good.
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12 hours ago, quarks said:
I have no idea how long Arrow will run, but I suspect that Amazon.com sales rankings provide one clue to this: Arrow is outselling the other three Arrowverse shows, including Supergirl. (I put up the info on the Ratings thread here; please note that Amazon typically adjusts those ratings according to real time sales on an hourly basis.)
This is why I will never understand the arguments over ratings between the various Arrowverse shows as an indication of which couples/characters/shows are "most popular". Ratings vs. sales are dependent on a variety of factors. A show with lower real-time ratings can end up with higher DVD sales where the inverse may be true for another. All of the Arrowverse shows target their own specific niche and clearly viewers have different priorities when it comes to viewing habits, time constraints, disposable income, etc., so the infighting is useless. That said, while I do think the sales of Arrow are likely having an impact as to why it has lasted six seasons, I wish the network would consider ending it next season as the show has always had a huge problem of recycling/repeating old storylines. To me, that's a indication that your arc is played out and you need to plan an exit strategy. I strongly suspect that's why Arrow ratings have been declining faster than the norm as well. I know personally I've been fairly bored the past few seasons and only skim the episodes out of loyalty and love of specific characters.
Guggenheim & Co. have always said they planned a 5-year show to coincide with Oliver's backstory arc, and even at that, it felt as though they sometimes had to stretch out the plot to fit that timeline at the sacrifice of quality. When it became clear that the network had no intention of canceling Arrow, I think the showrunners didn't really know where to go next so they hurriedly introduced a bunch of new characters that nobody really warmed to in an attempt to continue the gravy train. While I don't think most general viewers hate the newbies as much as many people here do, I do think they are a lot more disposable in terms of audience loyalty so focusing on them so much (especially last season when the ratings really started their slide) hasn't really done the show many favors in retaining viewers when the stories are weak.
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3 hours ago, slf said:
I'll be honest, I struggle with a junkie being considered worse than a hitman. I mean, yeah, junkies tend to be selfish liars and that can be infuriating but shit. She doesn't murder people for cash because of daddy issues. Her shit, ultimately, is less destructive for other people (I would argue that the show has been fairly realistic when depicting her addiction and the effect she has on others but has taken an almost ridiculously fairytale approach to Javier The Hitman With A Heart of Gold).
This...especially the bolded. I enjoy Javier just as much as the next guy but on no planet are his and Letty's deeds comparable. He's a killer, regardless of whether his victims deserved it. To me, he gets a lot of credit for calling Letty out for being the train wreck she is, but at the end of the day, the only person she is likely to kill is herself. Yes, it's a fiction and JDB is hot, but we're not supposed to admire Javier's chosen profession. In fact, this episode was practically screaming to the audience just how monstrous his deeds had become. It wasn't just murder--he pretty much tortured that woman to death. Yuck.
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Brief break from the crossover
meltdowndiscussion to appreciate the beauty that was Diggle's arms in last night's episode. *le sigh*-
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2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:
I think this might have been a fail of promotion also. The WestAllen wedding was promoted as THE big crossover event. And it ended up the McGuffin more or less. I get not wanting to spoil too much but if they really wanted the emotional story to be that of another couple, maybe they should have made that clear in the promo material. Not everyone reads spoilers.
You raise a very interesting point. The showrunners literally have zero control over how the network chooses to promote the show--Guggenheim is especially vocal about that. Clearly the network did the fans no favors here by focusing so much on something that wasn't really the main theme of the crossover. I tend to think that's usually because they didn't want to give too much plot away and be spoilery. This is why I never rely on promos to tell me what CW episodes are really about because 9 times out of 10 it's something different.
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11 hours ago, yoyo2 said:
Well I want to know why Mormons always seem to be fair game for hollywood? And why the interest? Hell's Wheels and now this . . . why doesn't Hollywood pick on another religion?
I didn't get the impression that this show was picking on the Mormons. I think it was more of a case of taking a tragedy involving some Mormon criminals and using it (rather stupidly...ahem) to mold the Big Bad they wanted.
46 minutes ago, bigmag said:I thought I was pretty ridiculous that the sheriff couldn't see that big honking set of metal keys for the jail cell that were lying in the middle of his desk, but with a quick glance at the mail or newspaper on his desk he came up with "Ward" for the prisoner's last name.
HA! I thought that as well. I'll admit to also being confused that they never expanded on whether Bill was in fact going blind or just had really, really awful eyesight. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but by the 1880s didn't people have relatively fair access to spectacles? He couldn't have been the only one in town with bad eyesight so as to conclude his world would go black.
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I'm currently a bit behind on crossover antics and I'm just reading the board to keep up. But yikes, people seem grumpy on the other boards about having to know about the other shows, yet I don't watch Supergirl or the Flash and thought that they did a pretty good job of mixing all the characters together
Bringing over this post from @Delphi in the episode thread...
That's the whole point of these crossovers though--characters from all the shows interact on all four shows. I would have thought that after four seasons of doing them people would have caught on to this concept but I guess not.
The other thing that I don't really get is the anger over certain characters being highlighted in a given year's crossover versus other years. That's also been the case for four seasons now. I mean, didn't we all have to endure the boring-ass Hawkman/Hawkgirl drama that consumed the 2nd crossover when they weren't even regular characters in the Arrowverse yet?
Re: the wedding drama this year, I can get the annoyance that thunder was somehow "stolen" (which is even questionable given the messy, haphazard timing of the thing being tacked onto A FRIGGIN' FUNERAL), but in my mind that's not much different than fans of Arrow being so frustrated that they had to share its 100th episode with the characters from all the other shows last year. That's just how the DCTV cookie crumbles when it comes to the almighty crossovers. I suspect that next year we'll be dealing with whole different set of pissed off fans because their characters/couple didn't get the spotlight.
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8 minutes ago, JJ928 said:
Infinity War trailer
*SQUEEEEE*
(That is all)
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3 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:
Barry once again proves he is the worst. I get that you don't want to kill people Barry but perhaps you could lock up the guy who you know has no issue killing people instead of letting him go. Dumbass.
Because it can't be said enough.
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LMAO! Someone wrote an entire article about something that lasted 30 seconds in a 4-hour crossover. That's...pretty damn funny.
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I think it's the law of diminishing returns as well. It was a novelty, but obviously now not so much. Also, considering how weak the last two crossover events were in terms of story and moving actual plot along on all the respective standalone shows, I imagine some people spared themselves watching irrelevant plot lines and characters they didn't know.
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16 hours ago, Proclone said:
I'm don't claim to be any sort of expert on the Moutain Meadows Massacre or Mormon history during that time period (or any other time period), but I didn't think the story it was so over the top that it wasn't within the realm of possibility even if it probably wasn't completely historically accurate. Children under seven were generally sparred but first taken in by the Morman families. Seventeen of those children were returned to their relatives, but I don't think it's wildly implausible that there were at least a couple of children who were not, especially given their age, the fact that they were in the custody of people probably sympathetic to those involved in the massacre and that their return happened two years after the massacre. And Haight was a real person who was one of the masterminds of the massacre and he spent most of the rest of his life in hiding (he was excommunicated by Brigham Young), so it stands to reason he would have just taken any hypothetical children in his custody with him. There were definitely children that were murdered during the massacre from what I've read (the bodies of infants were found), and as for rapes, I'm not sure how anyone would know what did or did not happen since all the survivors were under seven. From what I read there seem to be rumors that at least two women were raped before they were murdered, two teenagers who initially escaped but were later found and brought back to John Lee who lead the attack. I'd honestly be kind of surprised if there weren't rapes, religious or not we are talking about a group of violent men.
Yes, there were young children caught in the crosshairs and killed but the 17 children you refer to were the only survivors and were consciously spared due to their young ages. It's also true that they were initially taken in by local families but all 17 were eventually returned to their blood relatives by government officials. I've never seen anything to dispute that but if you find anything that credibly states otherwise then I'll happily change my opinion. Given the high profile nature of the crime at the time (i.e. reported in all the major national newspapers), I think it would have been extremely difficult for any of the perpetrators to hide random children without getting ratted out somehow--especially with U.S. Army troops encamped there under President Buchanan's orders to watch every move the Mormons made. Looking at the situation in context to what was happening politically at the time, it didn't make any sense. If it works for you, great.
There are other problems too which challenged my ability to believe what the writers were trying to sell. I'll preface my next comments by saying I absolutely do not excuse Haight's behavior at all and condemn it without exception, but there's not much evidence IRL that he was the bloodthirsty monster Godless portrayed who naturally would have made Frank Griffin into the man he became. Haight, like the others involved in the murders, was caught up in a whirlwind of political and religious rhetoric set against the backdrop of 20+ years of persecution from outsiders which culminated in a horrific tragedy for which even he expressed regret in the immediate aftermath. Without getting into a long history lesson, I'll just say the events happening at that time (including unsubstantiated rumors of members of the wagon train being involved in the earlier murder of a prominent Mormon leader in Arkansas) created the perfect firebomb for what ultimately occurred at Mountain Meadows, so simply reducing it to a monster of a man molding an innocent child into carrying on his eeeeevil deeds was a bit eyeroll-inducing. I get it though--the writers needed to create the most shocking scenario to justify Frank's motivations. I just wish they would have been a tad bit more realistic, or at a minimum, bothered to get even basic facts right (e.g. the local Paiutes were indeed involved and Haight didn't have 14 wives). I'm sure the artistic license probably won't bother most people, but it took me out of the story. I still enjoyed this episode quite a bit regardless of the antagonist's tragic "backstory". As with anything Hollywood portrays, large grains of salt are needed. Moving on...
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47 minutes ago, Paloma said:
We are supposed to believe that leader of the murdering, raping Mormons who had no compunction about smashing a baby's head would save an older screaming child (Frank) and raise him as his own? Why wouldn't they have just killed that child also? That took me out of the otherwise compellingly creepy story.
It's not just you. There was a lot of artistic liberty taken in this episode regarding the Mountain Meadows Massacre. As with everything, a historic tragedy been given the Hollywood treatment. While obviously a horrific event, it's widely documented that generally children under seven were spared and all surviving children were ultimately returned to the victims' families, basically rendering Frank's whole backstory impossible. There was also no rape involved, just downright murder (not that that's any better, of course) due to the Mormons' fear of outsiders during the Utah War. Having been exposed to all the different sides/accounts of the real event in Utah history classes growing up, it definitely took me out of the story as well, but I guess the series creators needed something extreme to give their villain a plausible backstory for why he is the way he is.
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5 hours ago, MissLucas said:
I did not understand Alice's backstory. Who were the guys raping her? Outlaws pretending to be Pajutes? Or were they Pajute outcasts - in that case Bull leaving Alice and the other victims with the tribe was a massive dick-move. Actually no matter who those buffalo heads were why did Frank not bring all the victims back to La Belle? He and his wife left all those women and girls with the Pajutes. Were they all sooner or later married to members of the tribe? And are we to assume that it was always love? Yeah right.
I don't believe Alice's abusers were the Paiutes but either warring tribes or white men disguised as tribe members.
As to why Bill and his wife didn't take the women back to La Belle I imagine it wasn't as simple as that. Given how judgmental the women of that town were as well as how hard it was to raise their own families, I doubt many of then would have been willing to take in total strangers--especially ones that had been held captive by the natives. We're shown from the beginning that Bill had a relationship with the local Paiutes and probably knew that they would give them the best chance for survival/protection.
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5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:
They're only shipping them because they think it "triggers" Olicity fans.
We have a winner. The trolls be a-plenty.
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4 hours ago, starri said:
The Rotten Tomatoes score is being held. The actual reviews are starting to drop.
A lot of them aren't very good, at least so far.
Justice Leagues is a big, ugly mess.
DC superheroes battle in vain against the power of Zach Snyder. Also contains the phrase "another film that looks like Axe Body Spray smells."
The Guardian went hard against Ben Affleck, but said that, perhaps not surprisingly, Wonder Woman was the highlight.
Not that I'm glad that the reviews are tepid at best but I did have to laugh at The Wrap's tagline:
"There are some laughs and excitement, but this is another film that looks like Axe body spray smells"
That really kind of sums up my relationship with Zack Snyder movies. Honestly, they needed to let Geoff Johns or Patty Jenkins take the DC/WB movie reins years ago.
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The sad thing is that while I can't conclude that Guggenheim is guilty of a illegal actions just yet since one can be a raging woman hater and still not do anything illegal, I have no problem believing he's a Grade A asshat.
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I love that David Ramsey continues not to give a shit about getting in trouble with TPTB. The man is epic.
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Also,
George Clooney - The Facts of Life (yeah, I remember him way back then pre-ER days)
Melissa McCarthy - Gilmore Girls
Leonardo DiCaprio - Growing Pains
There are also a surprising number of actors who got their start in soap operas and went on to have successful film careers:
Meg Ryan - As the World Turns
Julianne Moore - As the World Turns
Ryan Phillippe - One Life to Live
Demi Moore - General Hospital
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When Calls The Heart - General Discussion
in When Calls The Heart
I don't get that upset at TV shows anymore either, but even I have to admit that was a rather crappy way to end things. I knew something was up when DL disappeared for the last 4 or 5 episodes last season and then had spotty attendance this season so I wasn't the least bit surprised at Jack's demise, but I will say that my 74 year-old mom (who isn't the least bit TV savvy) was devastated. They really should have just written him off back in S4 rather than making the audience play the will-he-or-won't-he game each episode and taunting them with promos touting the happy union between Jack and Elizabeth during every commercial break. That built up a certain expectation with the audience that (rather cruelly) got ripped away only 2 episodes post-wedding. I get that this happens all the time in TV land (ala Game of Thrones), but not usually on a network like Hallmark where people flock to find the happy. I understand why some people are feeling manipulated.
If the show ends up being cancelled, I can't cry in my soup about the crew. Most of them move from one show right to another in no time. Vancouver is a Hollywood-lite these days. There are new shows popping up there all the time. I'm pretty sure the entire CW network roster of shows film there. The crew members would be just fine.