[Your Honor - General Discussion]

The flaw in this season is that they all acted like Adam killed Rocco deliberately and hence they act appalled. It was an accident... the shocking part was all the lies and cover up to protect Adam. 

If it was presented as an accident from the beginning... all of the rest could have been possibly avoided. 

Spoiler

And why did Fia give up her baby? Because she was disgusted with Adam? Or because she wanted the baby away from her criminal family? She is a nut. And Carlo gets away with murder? And Michael walks back into prison? I hated the ending. But I laughed when Jimmy was shot. That was hilarious....

 

[Your Honor - General Discussion]

Spoiler

I don't even get the ending... Michael went back to jail? So why did Gina and Carlo get away with their crimes? And after all that, Fia just like that hands the baby over? BTW, I cracked up laughing when Jimmy was shot.

 

[Your Honor - General Discussion]

This doesn't even make any sense. If nobody knows all about Michael's lies to protect Adam and that Coffey took the fall for it and was murdered by Carlo, why do they think he even went to jail? Do they all still think Coffey drove the car that killed Adam? And Fia doesn't even know? Huh? 

[Your Honor - General Discussion]

Spoiler

Why at the end did Big Mo get so mad at Janelle? I am all confused.

Question:

[S01.E06: Kin]

47 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

"i'm not arguing" says person repeatedly returning to the forum to  defend their opinion.

I am not "defending" my specific opinion anywhere at all. I am clarifying a definition of opinion.

I have stayed out of argument and repeatedly said it is my opinion only, I am not trying to convince or persuade anybody to agree with me. It is my opinion and I acknowledge I stand alone within that view. 

[S01.E06: Kin]

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

It's also kind of a motte-and-bailey argument, It's a simple question: Do we think that the scene of Joel and Ellie resting in separate sleeping bags five feet apart, not even looking toward each other....

The label would be correct regarding a motte-and-bailey argument if I was part of some "argument" where the arguer (me) is trying to advance a controversial position and convince others, when challenged, that I am only advancing the more modest position.

I insist nothing. I am advancing nothing. I stated my opinion and do not care if anybody agrees with me.

I am not part of any perceived "argument." I do not even understand the collective "we" (Do "we" think that the scene of Joel and Ellie resting...) which sort of indicates that everybody has to agree with regard to perceptions. 

All the replies to my opinion sort of are perceived by me as typed by "shadow boxers."

8 minutes ago, Superb Owl said:

But I don't understand why somebody so sguigged out as what they perceive as an inappropriate man/child

relationship is still watching the show.

(This was asked previously by another poster, so if it's been answered already, my apologies). 

Not that I have to accept a challenge which seems subtly confrontational and provide a reply and become defensive but: I like the sets, the scenery, the cinematography, the way some scenes appear to be watercolor paintings, the geographical journey, the stark vast emptiness in some panoramas, the sense of such finality.... and more.

ETA: the "more" being the episode with Bill and Frank. I am trans (female to male) and still like men so I am a trans gay male and their story touched my heart. 

[S01.E06: Kin]

4 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

So the crux of your argument is essentially that it's simply inappropriate for a middle aged man to to be a surrogate father to a teenage girl because no man could be trusted not to behave like a massive nonce in such circumstances?

Which is kind of insulting to the 99.9999% of middle aged men who aren't massive nonces , and also says rather more about you than it does about the show or how it depicts the relationship between Joel and Ellie.

I am not presenting an "argument." I do not view this as a debate. I stated my personal opinion and I am not trying to convince others to internalize my opinion, and I do not care if anybody agrees with me. 

I am fine with your conclusions about me (which may or may not be correct) based on my personal opinion about Joel and Ellie's relationship.

[S01.E06: Kin]

6 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I appreciate your work and dedication to the cause.

What that has to do with you're being not only completely wrong about the relationship between Joel and Ellie but still insisting it's inappropriate ans sexually charged despite it's not being that way is anyone's guess.

Wrong. I am NOT insisting. It is MY opinion. You have yours. There is nothing stubborn in my personal opinion especially when I am not trying to convince or persuade others to agree. 

[S01.E06: Kin]

2 hours ago, CooperTV said:

There's literally nothing to debate here. You're just factually incorrect in your assumptions. There's not going to be a "gotcha" moment there.

I would not think there would be a "gotcha" moment. However, I worked in CPS, and our first priorIty was always to protect the child regardless of any perceived assumptions. Protection. It would not be considered an appropriate living arrangement for a 14 year old girl to be living alone with a man in his 40s who was not her father or adoptive father or relative. It would be looked at with a jaundiced eye even though there was no evidence at all of any sexual misconduct. 

So while a father/daughter relationship might be developing between Joel and Ellie, a healthier situation would be considered more acceptable and that is why I said at the first opportunity Joel should have left her back there. At first they were a team traveling together. But within this episode it was (emotional) "needs" that kept them together when there was another option.

But this is fiction, a make believe story, a TV show... so it will advance and my opinion remains strong and I accept I stand alone in my perceptions. 

[S01.E06: Kin]

3 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

 With all due respect, you are wrong and trying to create a discourse. 

You can disagree with my opinion, but with regard to the conclusions about my intent you are totally wrong. I have not even responded here to the many who have disagreed with me... thereby not giving any legs to a debate.

[S01.E06: Kin]

2 hours ago, Dev F said:

I still caught absolutely no glimpse of anything like that. Ellie was making a joke about the fact that Joel's language toward their shooting target sounded sexual, she wasn't suggesting there's anything sexual between them, any more than I saw something sexual between Michael Scott and Jim on The Office when Michael joked, "That's what she said."

And why is she seeing anything sexual in what he is saying that has nothing to do with sex? 

1 hour ago, Capricasix said:

She’s 14. Teenagers, especially young ones, love to say things that they think are shocking to adults around them. She’s testing her limits like many teenagers do. This does not mean that there’s some kind of inappropriate tension between them.

In a group situation with others there it might be perceived differently, but they are together traveling alone and I heard it and perceived it the way I did. 

[S01.E06: Kin]

A few episodes ago I wrote a comment about what I perceived at times to be an inappropriate traveling team of Joel and Ellie. Reddit called it "sexual tension" between the two and even that reference was considered appalling.

However, here I am again noting an inappropriate exchange between the two of them. When Joel is showing Ellie how to shoot that rifle, he says "squeeze the trigger like you love it, gentle steady nice and slow" to which Ellie replies "you gonna shoot this thing or get it pregnant." Joel gives her a look open for interpretation. 

And just like that, there it is right there. What viewers thought they saw, we now see a glimpse of. Joel should have left her back there... but in order for the show to continue he had to take her. It is too long for those two to be traveling together and it is moving to grey areas of what is inappropriate banter. He is an older man and he is NOT her father. 

[S01.E07: The Rule of Five Hundred]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:50 AM, wlk68 said:

I feel like the scene with Whitfield belt-whipping the prostitute was gratuitous. We already know he's an asshole. Was it supposed to titillating? If so, it failed.

It was exactly that and it came from the mind of the man who wrote it: Taylor Sheridan. In order for him to think that up as something a man would pay to see for sexual pleasure, it has to be in his own mind... not just something he happens to know about. It WAS gratuitous and the expression on that man's face (I forget his name) clearly showed a sick fuck who got extreme pleasure from watching a woman being whipped. There probably were many who watched it who got turned on too. 

On another note, I am getting tired of Alex myself. And about Spencer's prophecy about Alex "running that skinny boy ragged?" Spencer just might be who she runs ragged.

It might be a good plot twist for her to go home after a few months on the ranch in Montana and a new love interest brought in for Spencer. Her adventure might be short lived.

 

[S01.E06: Kin]

41 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Small voice: That wound doesn't look survivable under these conditions.

Well he has to survive for the show to go on. Maybe there is a rewind button somewhere there. 

[S01.E07: The Rule of Five Hundred]

This was a tough episode to watch but a necessary episode. I admire how Teonna fought back but I know many real victims could not.

Why does this show end every episode with a cliffhanger? 

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes, I agree with the comments that she is spoiled and entitled.  She clearly comes from a life of privilege...

And I say to that: so what? She is a spoiled rich young girl who ran off with a hot guy and of course she will act like who she is. She owes nobody any explanations for her obnoxious behavior. There are many offensive characters in TV shows and Alex is who she is. If Spencer gets tired of her, he will run. Taylor Sheridan is allowed to craft a character that is totally flawed in today's culture but back then there were many nauseating bitches just like her. So hate her. There are many characters in fictional pieces I despised. I hate Beth on Yellowstone. She literally gives me rage migraines. So maybe Alex actually is Beth's great grandmother. Make sense? 

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

13 hours ago, circumvent said:

Hold on! I thought you were saying it is only TV! 

But seriously, my point was about the story, the writing of the show. Historical facts or not, the story is badly written. Even if Spencer arrives with all his broodiness and starts saying how they need to respect the natives of the land, how his family can fight for the land that is now theirs and still recognize that they are not the ethical owners of it. Whatever Sheridan writes, at this point I can only imagine it will be bad.

You are contradicting yourself there. They are not real, they are BADLY WRITTEN characters. That's the point: The writing. Do I think TV should have historical accuracy? Yes. Do I think this fictional piece of TV is good? No. Complete fantasy, or with accurate stories, it is bad TV. I watch it as fiction, as bad fiction. Like I said, Sheridan should have stuck with cinematography and left the writing to actual writers. He is aspiring to be one and failing, imo

As an example: When Hank and Teonna were burning the books, Hank said they shouldn't burn the bible because the while man's god would be mad and send revenge, or something like that. You have two fictional characters actually talking in an historical accurate way. There is no conflict between accuracy and fiction. The issue is, again, the writing. At that short moment, it was good. 

Exactly. Sheridan is not only a bad writer, he is also bad at spinning his views. Total failure. He is giving us an "origin story" without the origins. 

Well I love love love love 1923. If I nitpicked at it because I hated it, I would label myself a masochist and glutton for punishment and my goal is to enjoy what I continue to watch on TV, not get a high blood pressure attack and sit all angry and mad like I am being trolled by a TV show and have to reach for a Xanax.

And just like that, my participation in this so called "debate" is over because I also do not intend to get triggered here either. Enjoy the conversation with others, circumvent.... I am not a "hate watcher." I will not waste time analyzing a piece of fiction as if it is a story in the newspaper. It is not the story of Lord Gordon White and his wife, Sita. 

ETA: I want to BE Alex... just to have Spencer for ONE NIGHT. Yum yum yum. 

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

15 minutes ago, blackwing said:

These are the questions I was hoping to have answered, and so far, neither show has explained anything.  We are just supposed to accept the fact that in 40 years, the Duttons are king and have this huge successful operation.

I accept it... because it is a fake story the same as Valley of the Dolls or Taxi Driver. What abut Citizen Kane (OK they gave us some back story in it)? Who cares how those fake characters got so crazy. These are not authentic documentaries and the stories do not have to make sense or connect dots. They are movies and movies are not real. 

By the way how did Carrie in Homeland ever get HER job? What a kook she was. 

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

 The Duttons are entitled white people who believe they cannot lose the land they stole.

All actually who settled here could have lost the land they stole from the Cusabo, and Catawba and from the Rappahannock and the Chickahominy. Why are only the Duttons selected for that form of denigration and persecution?

Again, I suggest viewing the story from an entertainment point of view because the Duttons are not even real. If you choose to view it through a political eye, well go after real people who live in real life like the Duttons because criticizing fake people who do not even exist is to me like analyzing the film Superman. Seriously, how dare they show him bending steel with his bare hands! Are they trying to subliminally indicate that he has white strength? 

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

9 minutes ago, circumvent said:

WE ARE THE GREATEST GREAT PEOPLE OF ALL TIMES DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING TRUE BECAUSE WE ARE THE BESTEST OF THE BEST!!!!! But that's my opinion

 

There it is right there.... what does this TV show have to do with Americans' level of collective self esteem? Midnight Cowboy, Taxi Driver, Leaving Las Vegas, Barfly, and Psycho are a few examples that were films about total losers. I did not view them through a broad lens and draw conclusions about how Americans are portrayed. Those films are about a small section of people and their stories were interesting as fictional films. Even The Godfather presents a small section of a population, and I do not think anybody draws great conclusions with a broad brushstroke. It is for entertainment purposes.  

I think we have to be careful how far down a rabbit hole we go when we watch fictional shows. The writers do not owe us any level of authenticity or political correctness in pieces with scenes that are clearly fiction. They do not have to cast Alex as a heavy brunette to satisfy some level of not being viewed as "body shaming" or giving elevated status to blondes when they select who will play her. Alex can be a skinny blonde. It doesn't bother me at all. 

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

7 hours ago, circumvent said:

See, this doesn't fly with me. If it is total make believe, then it is fantasy. Then there is no OMG, the leopard. They could just make that completely make believe too. They could have a whale save them. Make believe. That's why I don't get this declarations. It is only make believe to the extent that personal preferences go. Now, if you say you are good at suspending disbelief, than it is a different story. I guess people like Sheridan count on this audience. He will throw an  "eye candy"  - male, for sure, the majority of viewers are women - and then ignore the common sense that guides life. At the same time, the "make believe" uses beautiful yet pointless imagery ad nauseam. The story doesn't matter anymore. Whatever happens becomes "great" as long as the eye candy avatar of masculinity has his screen time. All is forgiven. Sheridan throws an indigenous woman in there for, I don't know, credibility? Well, her story is not make believe at all. But he needs her, he needs the other pillar of TV endurance: social issues. Some people will be satisfied with that. I am not one of those. I don't watch TV for Nicholas Sparks feel-good-after-crying-a-lot stories of love and hope.

 

They are more or less keeping this shipwreck afloat (pun intended). But that cannot sustain television series or shows. The medium is a writers' medium. It wasn't worthy for me. I had to endure the whole episode of nothing to have a little taste of something. They cannot do miracles with bad writing either. I wonder what Mr. Eye Candy will do to level himself to those two old timers. His "hotness" will do nothing in an exchange with Mirren or Ford. 

Yes it is make believe... total fantasy.  Taylor Sheridan is not making a documentary so he does not have to be historically correct or appease a need for political correctness. It is all fantasy. It is similar to the films of long ago: Valley of the Dolls or A Summer Place. Total melodrama.

And yes, I am loving the "eye candy" and the romance between Spencer and Alex. Loving it. I love "Nicholas Sparks" stuff... I also love Harold Robbins, Jacqueline Susann, Fred Mustard Stewart and Sidney Sheldon. If you don't like it, why watch it? 

I think these days viewers watch this stuff so they can complain about the lack of political correctness and virtue signal. But I am transgender (female to male) and still love men so that makes me a gay male. And my 23 and me came back and validated I am mostly Ashkenazi Jewish with ancestral roots in Africa and I just discovered I have a whole family of African American relatives in Atlanta..... and hot damn I am loving 1923!

It's TV... not meant to be a platform for a political candidate to be challenged so he is not elected.  

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

7 hours ago, circumvent said:

The episode was boring. Yes, Sheridan brought up his best Nicholas Spark romance and Alex and Spencer are now married but the episode was a doozy. 

I am not sure Elizabeth is pregnant. Maybe she doesn't get her period because of the injury she had, and maybe nausea is a side effect of whatever is happening. It is a cheap twist but since it is Sheridan writing the plots, cheap is the main course. I think it is possible that Alex is already pregnant - another cheap subplot -  and that Spencer will die before the kid is all grown up. That would still fit with what Elsa said and what the article mentioned about Jack. Besides, Sheridan would not kill one of his pillars so soon. Jack is expendable as a character at this point. He might be the one who dies. obliterating that branch of the tree.

I wish we could see more of Teonna's story. It is so much more interesting, and it would be nice to have a break from the skinny-blonde overload on the screen. 

Peeve: after a whole day and half the night in that boat, under the sun, salty water and all, all that Spencer and Alex got was a nice tan? No blisters, no messy hair, nothing? The hair and make up people could at least made it a little more convincing. Alex's hair looked fabulous, her skin was golden and apparently they never dehydrated, since they didn't have to rest, they didn't feel super dizzy or even weak. Their thoughts were coherent and they were asking for alcohol, which would make the dehydration worse. But I guess love conquers all ills 🙄

I hate all the characters (except for Teonna, for now) but watching Ford and Mirren has been the only reason to keep watching this show. They are really carrying the whole shipwreck on thier backs

I watch the show under an umbrella of total make believe, I do not view it as political historical commentary and get triggered to get angry because of the skinny blonde overload. This is not an authentic documentary. I love seeing Spencer and Alex on my screen. They are so romantic together and I adore my total suspension of disbelief. 

I stopped watching Tulsa King because I hated it after episode 3. It was for me a snoozefest. I don't stick around to watch shows that raise my blood pressure. Even though I like Sylvester Stallone, I never watch any show because of the actors who are in it, so Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren matter not in the least to me. I am drawn to a story, and actually unknowns make the tales more believable. Great acting can never carry any film if the plot itself is not interesting. 

[S01.E6: One Ocean Closer to Destiny]

Quote

In the wake of the tugboat crash, the next step in Spencer and Alexandra's fate is revealed. Cara and McDowell begin hiring new Livestock Officers. Teonna covers her tracks as Marshalls come looking. Jacob gains strength.

Air Date: Feb 12, 2023

This is such a beautiful episode. I am happy this had a pathway to what can develop as so many interesting and more beautiful episodes in this series. 

[S01.E05: Ghost of Zebrina]

2 hours ago, sandwoman said:

Yes, Helen and Harrison are the reasons we decided to tune it. And I kind of adore Timothy Dalton. Between Penny Dreadful and Doom Patrol and Toy Story (he's a great voice actor), he always adds a special something.

It is strange because I never gravitate to any film or TV show based on who is in it. Never. I am drawn to a story. As a matter of fact, I find famous actors a total distraction and a film with unknowns is more believable.

[Your Honor - General Discussion]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:38 PM, heatherchandler said:

I’ve been hate-watching this. Am I suffering from some kind of disorder where I actively watch a show I cannot stand?  I should just not watch.  

The storyline is ridiculous. The writing is atrocious, the acting is over the top, the stupid music they play during the dramatic scenes makes me laugh.  The plot holes!!  The absurdity of most of the scenes!! I took it off my dvr, then I see it on the guide and I click on it.  Why???

Strangely, I like Carlo, he’s kind of charming, and the mayor, his acting is good enough to overcome the bad writing.  All respect I had for Bryan Cranston because of Breaking Bad is gone.

 

Wait until you see episode 5. The plot goes beyond ridiculous and then just gets boring.