SueB
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I love Swan Song.
It has a few issues but after seeing the interpretation (and now unable to UN-see it) that it was Lucifer's pain (at seeing the self-sacrificing love between Sam and Dean as demonstrated in the flashback) that allowed Sam to momentarily take control --- well, I'm totally down for the finale.
I also am of the unpopular opinion that Dean's story was not "thrown away". And that at the end of the day, it was because Dean went to die with Sammy if that is all he could do -- that he fulfilled his role as The Righteous Man and therefore HE is responsible for putting an end to the Apocalypse. Obviously the whole rings/SamsayingYes/Samjumpingintothepit was essential as well -- but if Dean hadn't shown up, the big fight would have happened. So Dean, IMO, remained the lynchpin to stopping the Apocalypse. I do not want in any way to suggest that what Sam did was less important but I don't agree at all with the idea that Dean was not essential with the stopping of the Apocalypse.
YMMV -- and I understand.
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Besides kill, kill, kill, Dean's objective HAS to be to get the souls into Heaven. He still retains his love for humanity --- surprisingly enough -- based on his comment to Tessa that she was so wrong about collateral damage not being important in the big picture. And he gets a pained look on his face when Tessa talked about the souls in pain. Especially since Kevin is one of them. So, if you are Dean and you desperately want to kill Metatron, KNOW you are likely the only one with the weapon to get that job done, but need to solve the trapped souls issue... Who are you going to consult/consort with to get that accomplished?
Benched by the rest of TFW, Crowley is your Ace. Crowley deciphered that gate closing is irreversible. But did he sort out anything else? Is there a clue that he could give Dean? Would he know if killing Metatron gets the job done or at least keeps the portal open?
It seems to me that he needs two things out of Crowley: one, something to help him get under control because he just killed their best lead (Gadreel) and two, any intel to help get souls to heaven. So long as Dean keeps his power, his wits, and freedom of action to complete his mission -- I suspect Dean will give Crowley anything he wants.
Now add that Dean smacks Metatron around in the promo but he doesn't stab him. Perhaps that is an indicator that he needs Metatron to widen the portal or help get souls to Heaven. Metatron obviously won't help but he is a weasel vice a zealot. He won't die for his cause, he might be force-able if Dean has a golden parachute to offer him. Some sort of exile with books.
IDK. I'm pretty sure someone has to shed blood or grace for this and I know Dean is not planning to come out of these events in any version of 'ok'. BUT If Dean Winchester's objective is to open Heaven for souls, the's nothing he won't do to make that happen -- including sacrificing both Sam and/or Cas I think. And I'll put money on a determined Dean.
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Spoilers on the last SECOND http://www.justjared.com/2014/05/15/jared-padalecki-jensen-ackles-hit-the-cw-upfronts-tease-shocking-supernatural-finale/
"chilling" "disturbing" implied last shot before fade to black "There are multiple characters involved."
Slo-mo gif version of the promo: http://crossroadscastiel.tumblr.com/post/85701287257/i-get-this-high-and-i-have-to-kill-i-mean-i
As far as I can tell, there were NO photos released at this point
So here's what I've pieced together from these tidbits:
- Early in episode: Gadreel is on the floor, Dean yells at him to get out of the way; somehow they get Dean into the dungeon and leave (thus hitting us on the head with a S4 parallel anvil in case we didn't get that S9 is flipping S4)
- Dean gets out to the storeroom and summons Crowley (which kinda pisses me off ONLY because they spent episodes looking for Crowley... so why can Dean summon him now but not 6 episodes ago?.... okay, letting it go). You see storeroom potions next to Dean
- Dean and Crowley interact. It's Crowley that he's talking to about how much he needs to kill.
- How Dean gets blood on his mouth and whose blood is it? Dean is still in the bunker I think. See speculation below.
- Sam and Cas appear to be finding Gadreel's body. It sure looks like Gadreel is dead but not smited dead. Just bloody dead.
- Clearly Dean leaves the bunker and has a Metatron confrontation at some point
- Cas is apparently behind those bars and that area appears to blow up while Dean is sailing across the room
- Sam pulls a gun on Dean
Note: It looks like the final scene or CLOSE to the final scene is set-dressed similar to the pre-season promo photos with Dean in obvious all-red now. http://supernaturalfansonline.com/2013/09/27/more-season-9-promotional-pictures/
Thinky Thoughts:
- They've had a running theme of Dean making questionable deals all season. Now he clearly doesn't need Crowley to free him from the dungeon but I wonder if he makes a deal to lesson the blade's effects. I don't know if Crowley could swing that. Dean can obviously offer to not kill Crowley, offer his soul (which frankly, Crowley probably thinks he's getting already), or let Crowley do something to him that puts him on Crowley's payroll early. I could see them NOT showing us the deal and instead just showing Dean with blood on his mouth, no explanation until the cliffhanger.
- It's possible they imply a Castiel death but since they had him at the upfronts, etc... it's a really weak-sauce threat
- If any of those gifs from the promo are of the last scene, I'd pick Sam pulling a gun on Dean.
- Jensen's comment that the big gasp involves a lot of people throws me.
- No clue why Metatron is with what appears to be homeless people or why they are beating someone.
Cliffhanger options (in likelihood order):
Given that Misha said "chilling" and "disturbing"
- Demon Dean
- Crowley showing up to snatch Dean away due to whatever Deal was made
- Immortal Dean (like Sam shoots him and Dean just looks up unconcerned)
- Sam shoots Dean
- The season has been about the reverse of S4 with the pairing being Sam/Cas and Dean/Crowley -- so if it involves a great deal of people, I could see some sort of square off where it's clear that Dean is now Team Crowley vice Team Free Will
IDK. I'm pretty stumped and happy to wait (okay, not really) til Tuesday to see.
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Skin --
Faith +
Devil's Trap+
44 - Scarecrow
42 - Pilot
25 - Dead in the Water
25 - Faith
23 - The Benders
23 - Something Wicked
17 - Skin
07 - Devil's TrapGANKED:
Route 666
Bugs
Provenance
Dead Man's Blood
Hook Man
Nightmare
Asylum
Wendigo
Hell House
Bloody Mary
Home
Salvation
Shadow
Phantom Traveler -
1-8 BluRay
S9 BluRay on pre-order
1-9 iTunes
buying each of the special edition t-shirts as they come out this week
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Skin --
Something Wicked __
Faith +
41 - Scarecrow
37 - Pilot
26 - Faith
24 - Dead in the Water
24 - The Benders23 - Something Wicked
18 - Skin
14 - Devil's Trap
07 - Phantom TravelerGANKED:
Route 666
Bugs
Provenance
Dead Man's Blood
Hook Man
Nightmare
Asylum
Wendigo
Hell House
Bloody Mary
Home
Salvation
Shadow -
Sorry?
I think this won't be addressed in S9. I think the rest of S9 is going to be about resolving the Heaven story. So S10 will pick up MoC. And I think this is one of those things that they drag out in S10 like; AHA! Gotcha.
I'd be surprised if they whitewash everything away. That's just not fun. it's not dramatic enough. The only way I see it happening is if Sam and Dean actually remember, with Dean at a minimum (because he's still the POV character). Just like they remember the whole Titanic not-sinking option. Options that WOULD be drammatic:
- Crowley's FEELINGS (everytime I capitalize it, this is me saying in my head like Mark Shepard did on that last wonderful line read), force him to give up his son because the little twit is causing trouble and it's starting to unravel shit. That would be nice and dramatic.
- Sam and or Dean have to take some sacrificial act to fix things because the timeline is getting screwed
Whatever it is, I expecct MORE pain for Dean, not less pain. I do think it's a super-slim chance Cas (or Sam) does some self-sacrificing deal to protect Dean but I think both know unringing the MoC bell is too big of a deal. And since that all happened BEFORE Gavin was saved, I'm not sure how Gavin has any influence on that story (because as I said - Kevin still died, Sam still did the trials, Dean still tricked him into being possessed by Gadreel, Purgatory happened, etc....).
So I think a reset button around Crowley/Gavin in S10 makes more sense than wiping out the MoC story.
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he's sprightly and full of energy in that sneak peek
I'm going with MoC steroid effect is really amp'd and he's anticipating violence. Wish it were seeing Cas but ... I'm thinking violence.
Timey-whimey stuff:
Posted a long statement at TWOP: short short -- I think we had a MINOR temporal change that won't hit til S10. But we did have a universe altering moment because Dean forgot Crowley had a son.
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I may be the only person not anxious for his eyes to turn black in the finale.
I don't want him to go demon, it just seems like the logical outcome. My spec: He accidentally skewers Sammy while in a blood-frenzy and he turns. Now Black eyes seems the obvious choice but Cain never showed black eyes and he doesn't smoke out, he's in his original body it seems. So if Dean turns demon I'm not sure blak eyes make sense. But if he can smite like Cain (which he can't yet), then I think he's a demon.
Re: Dean's description of Cas. I think Dean may be hiding something. Like maybe it's another torture gig and he doesn't want Sam to know. Dean has talked about Cas being incomprehensible in the past as a deflection attempt.
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But IIRC, she didn't look concerned until he was able to pull himself off the wall. She kept making the gesture and smiling sadistically, as if she were intentionally not killing him right away, drawing it out to torment him. IMO, if she expected Dean to die immediately and he didn't, she'd have looked a helluva lot more worried/scared right away.
I think we're saying the same thing. She rattles off her to-do list, very confidently. And Dean doesn't look like much of a threat. THEN the arm glows and he moves his right arm to 90 deg. She gets a look of consternation. He comes off the wall and she keep "blasting" him with what I would call the "pin-the-bug-to-the-wall" manuever. It takes SEVERAL tries but she succeeds and laughes again. But she doens't dawdle at this point. As soon as she gets him up against the wall again, she goes for the "rip him apart from the inside" manuever. Her hand twists. And Dean FEELS it but there's no blood gushing. She's not really getting completely to him. And then he starts to focus on the blade. She spares a glance at the blade as it moves and gives a false bravado laught but she's REALLY worried. As soon as he comes off the wall she's panicked and within a second she's skewered.
So... IMO...as soon as he shows the abilty to overcome her bug-pinning effect, she takes him seriously. First she tries to repin him, THEN she ineffectively tries to gut him, and then she makes a final desperate attempt to stop him with the bug-pinning manuever but it's all too late and she's dead meat.
Another interesting note was the look of gratification on Dean's face as he whacks her dead body with the Blade. He's releasing pent-up anger and hatred. I think it feels GOOD. Like he's purging himself of his own pain. That feeling is going to be easily addictive. Dean carries alot of pain. He could spend years releasing it in violent outburst.
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I think Cas is the first person who in Dean's mind genuinely just cared about Dean. Who made the HUGE gestures (rebelled against Heaven!) for DEAN. And Dean knows it. He doubts just about everyone else's motivation for being nice to Dean or discounts what they say. But for some reason he BELIEVES Cas. So when Cas betrayed him, it cut him so deeply because he truly had trusted Cas on a level that he had never trusted anyone else. Even Sammy. Sammy left Dean. And Sam is a completely different relationship. But Cas -- Cas "has gone to the mat" so many times for Dean. There's no guilt motivataing Cas. Cas does it FOR DEAN.
Is it romantic? IDK. I call it Agape (self sarificing love). It kind of transcends romance, and it's not about the physical. it truly is a RARE and profound bond.
I'm nearly 100% certain we will never have a Destiel kiss. I think if Dean turns dark he might taunt Castiel regarding their relationship. He will do what he can to hurt Castiel out of self-loathing and self-hate. But canon non-hetero sexual relationship? I just don't see them going there. And really, is it necessary? Must ALL love be physically represented? IDK, it seems both unlikely and unnessary to me. I want them to continue to share moments like they shared in Meta Fiction. I want more talks. To me that is more profound than any thing else.
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Been a little scarce getting my eldest over the college graduation finish line.
-- Skin
+ Faith
-- Something Wicked
39 - Scarecrow
36 - Pilot
25 - Something Wicked25 - Faith
24 - Dead in the Water
23 - The Benders
21 - Skin
14 - Devil's Trap
07 - Phantom TravelerGANKED:
Route 666
Bugs
Provenance
Dead Man's Blood
Hook Man
Nightmare
Asylum
Wendigo
Hell House
Bloody Mary
Home
Salvation
Shadow -
She should have just snapped his neck or whatever when he first entered the room, rather than throw him against the wall and then take her time slowly squeezing his neck by using her jedi demon strength. So stupid.
I don't think she could. If you watch closely, sure she first throws him up against the wall to toy with him a bit. But as soon as he shows skills, she uses the same hand gestures which were ripping Gavin apart from the inside out. I think she meant to kill him straight away and her powers did not penetrate. He looked like he was in a little pain but no blood gushing at all. She was shocked and tried again and it seemed to work but then he got off the wall. THERE is where she made her mistake. There is where she should have gotten a weapon and just attempted to end him. But perhaps when he broke off the wall, all should could do was keep him at bay with all her concentration.
So it wasn't just that Dean jedi's past her whammy. Dean was not ripped apart by her powers like she intended IMO.
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-- Something Wicked
-- Skin
+ Faith
37 - Scarecrow
34 - Pilot
26 - Dead in the Water
26 - The Benders25 - Faith
24 - Something Wicked
22 - Skin
17 - Devil's Trap
09 - Phantom TravelerGANKED:
Route 666
Bugs
Provenance
Dead Man's Blood
Hook Man
Nightmare
Asylum
Wendigo
Hell House
Bloody Mary
Home
Salvation
Shadow -
Yes, thanks.
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Well I'm kinda hoping we revisit Ennis and David and those gorgeous sets in S10. Maybe with less pilot pressure we can flesh out the story some more. Oy.. flesh out.. bad pun, sorry.
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IDK, it had it's rough spots but it's 1 out of 195 episodes. Plus, compare it to "Man's Best Friend With Benefits". I know I'd much rather have watched the "Bloodlines" episode.
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+ Something Wicked
+ Faith
-- Skin
37 - Scarecrow
34 - Pilot
27 - The Benders
26 - Dead in the Water26 - Faith
25 - Skin
25 - Something Wicked
17 - Devil's Trap
09 - Phantom TravelerGANKED:
Route 666
Bugs
Provenance
Dead Man's Blood
Hook Man
Nightmare
Asylum
Wendigo
Hell House
Bloody Mary
Home
Salvation
Shadow -
Since Metatron said he knows how the story ends, I think the switch he flipped was to BECOME THE PROPHET. That's why another one isn't called. Metatron exists and no more prophets until he's gone.
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Earth will go on, humanity will go on as it always has.
Yes but in this universe there is an afterlife and it's getting crowded in the veil. Surely more ghosts will start popping up and that's no good. Eventually, if closing Heaven OR Hell stops souls from going there, it'll screw up the living IMO.
Super EARLY Sneak Peek for next week. Look quick in case it's taken down!
http://www.winchesterbros.com/site/index.php/news/14/10360-supernatural-stairway-to-heaven-clip
The promo pictures tell us Dean goes ahead and TAKES the Blade. Who didn't see that coming? Y/Y? Colt in "Devil's Trap" anyone?
But Sam gets credit for laying it out in black and white: the Blade's magic is going to come at a price. I think Dean just doesn't give a shit.
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Don't forget the Titanic. That was a big whopper and a fair reason to change their stance. Now they changed the past in the very next episode (Fronteirland) but there initial intention was to just get the ashes, not actually kill the Phoenix. And the deal with Kronos is a bit different because he was a Pagan God of Time which Dean accidentally grabbed onto. They kept a minimal footprint. When Henry tried to change the past in S8, Dean stopped him.
So, it's actually not all that horribly hypocritical... they seemed to have developed a new "no butterfly effect" approach. OTOH, Fate may have just found Gavin after it's all over and clipped his little string. Not sure. As I said on TWOP, it appears to have not mattered because the timeline didn't change. So maybe a future Angel snatches Gavin and sends him back.
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@starrysuki, thank you for feeding my obsessive need to know every possible spoiler tidbit out there. You're right -- that's too early for the script to be released. I'm not sure what he meant. Am confused.
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Faith +
Something Wicked --
Benders --
36 - Scarecrow
34 - Pilot29 - Faith
28 - Something Wicked
28 - The Benders27 - Skin
26 - Dead in the Water
19 - Devil's Trap
11 - Phantom TravelerGANKED:
Route 666
Bugs
Provenance
Dead Man's Blood
Hook Man
Nightmare
Asylum
Wendigo
Hell House
Bloody Mary
Home
Salvation
Shadow
Supernatural Survival Game
in Supernatural
-- Something Wicked
+ Dead in the Water
+ Faith
46 - Scarecrow
43 - Pilot
27 - Faith
26 - Dead in the Water
24 - Something Wicked
19 - Skin
18 - The Benders
06 - Devil's Trap
GANKED:
Route 666
Bugs
Provenance
Dead Man's Blood
Hook Man
Nightmare
Asylum
Wendigo
Hell House
Bloody Mary
Home
Salvation
Shadow
Phantom Traveler