wayne67
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Posts posted by wayne67
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I'm getting more and more annoyed that noone ever just tells Annalise that she's a chronic liar and they just don't believe anything she says... Every time she pulls out the tired I'm doing this all to protect you routine. BULL. It was a way to get 4 new office slaves. It's just that they're a lot more high maintenance than Frank and Bonnie who are mindless minions to her whims.
For law students they're awfully gullible. Are they even get paid for all this grunt work Annalise is getting them to do ?
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Felix is going to get his heart broken. Ah youth. Being reckless, stupid and wildly hormonal. I do not miss it.
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I was really concerned that they were going to kill 10k. At least this show has that going for it. You can't tell who will die in any particular episode because characters do die off randomly.
I'm not sure how I feel about Cassandra's death. She hasn't really been that interesting this season.
I am glad they stopped showing Citizen Z in every episode mostly because a lot of the time his appearances added little to the episodes.
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When a tv show is portraying what you do for a living, it's normal to evaluate how realistically they're doing it. If the writers are pulling stuff out of their asses, viewers who are curious about it should know.
I see the point about last season vs. this season. Last season Lucius was dying and the sense was "where are they going with this King Lear like story?" Now the answer is "1982 and Dynasty", which is infinitely less interesting and less creative.
Yeah I always find that people who are actual lawyers or cops or doctors have such amusing things to say about the media's portrayal of their jobs on the forums.
It's weird but last season it felt like the family drama was in the front seat and the business was in the back seat. Now it seems like it's all about the business and the family is kind of coming in second or third. I don't know but poorly thought out and unrealistic take over plots do very little for me. Haven't watched the next episode and I haven't looked at the forum thread for the episode either. It's gone from must watch tv to meh, maybe I'll watch it later tv for me. I haven't seen Dynasty or 1982. I live in Australia so... not sure if I can even watch those shows. Were either of those any good ?
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Hell, mine was to. I went to an all girl school which had the usual scandals and verbal cat fights, but all in all nothing out o f the ordinary.
Well, this site was never overloaded with comments for the show. Honestly, the only place I've seen a vast amounts of comments about the show is on youtube, but its more of less comments instead of any real discussions. But, yes, the leaks have hampered traffic on here.
I wish I went to an all boys school, in theory that would have been more entertaining ...
I'm tempted to see if I can find the leaked episodes but then it'd be even longer until the next season and I kind of enjoy the anticipation of a prom showdown next episode. I do feel sorry for Felix that even though (in his head) he knows that Amy doesn't like him in that way he's also still hopeful (in his heart) that he might have a chance . He reminds me of Amy in that she sort of has her heart on her sleeve and is so easily emotionally bruised. I am curious about Felix's backstory. Less so in Shane's older sister. His whole family is full of attention seekers it seems.
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But, I guess at the end of the day these type of relationships do happen in real life until the parents and police get involved.
My highschool experience was so dull in comparison, just had a crush on a girl and a guy and nothing really happened except bullying. The really interesting stuff happened after highschool like a couple of my bullies trying to hook up with me and general misadventures.
Is anyone else watching this show ? This thread is dead :S
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I won't be surprised when Liam sleeps with Shane's sister. With Carter's obsession with age inappropriate relationships on the show its just a matter of time until it happens
To be fair aren't most teen shows filled with semi inappropriate relationships ? Though this one is particularly bad with a cop dating a student, a college aged woman stalking a 17 year old who said he can't... Shane and his string of college age? bf's and the last MMA bf . Amy and her college age ex pressuring her to prove herself a lesbian with immediate lady loving.
At least this show hasn't gone to that old cliche of having a student hot for teacher... Like PLL. Then again are there any teachers at this school ? I can only remember the Principal lady.
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Laurel/Frank: snooze. I actually thought at the end of last season there was some decent Laurel/Wes chemistry. I can't take Frank seriously because when I look at the actor all I see is Ben/Glory, not some dude pretending to be a made guy.
Wow I totally didn't realise he was the same guy as Ben/Glory. At least that explains why he looks vaguely familiar. I'm so daft sometimes lol
I liked the whole... I was at a sex party and didn't want anyone there. It was such a roundabout way of having a character admit they were in LURVE without saying the words and so fitting too.
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I FLOVED this episode. So much hilarity.
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That was hilarious. It may be wacky but it is hilarious wackiness.
"There was pie."
Doesn't that just explain it all :p
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Everyone feels however they feel, if you feel like the show isn't for you its probably not a show you should be watching. Cookie has been the same from day 1 in terms of being sassy and not having much sense of decorum.
I guess I'm not fond of static characters. Fish out of water stories are only fun for a while, at some point that fish is either going to die or adapt. Cookie is neither suffering any real consequences for bad mouthing employees or toning it down for the press.
I found Cookie fun in the premiere because she was brash and fresh out a completely different environment. Now I'm just frustrated that in 6 months of being on the outside, she's showing little to no growth as a person/character. Except for being more tech savvy.
As for Hakeem, he was sort of working at Empire too but now he's in a position of power sleeping with employees. I don't really think it's much of a positive character growth but we don't have to agree :p
I don't think I'll watch this show any more. I may read the forums see if there's any forward momentum to... whatever the plot is supposed to be.
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I can't find the articles on their website right now, but during season 1, the Wall Street Journal's real-world IPO specialist did a weekly analysis of what happened on Empire, comparing to what could happen in reality. In reality, they would still own their shares in Empire. I can't remember the time limit, but there are legal rules that limit sales of shares by people who own stock in a privately-owned company when it goes public, for a certain period after the IPO (which was definitely longer than what has been portrayed so far, as far as I can figure out the supposed timeline). Exactly to avoid shenanigans like the ones the Empire plotline relies on. Another problem was that Empire has voting and non-voting stock (a perfectly standard arrangement used by many companies), and the sons and Cookie only got non-voting stock. So as long as Lucious keeps control of a majority of the voting stock, it doesn't matter how many non-voting shares somebody manages to buy - a hostile takeover was always, by definition, impossible. Plus, real IPOs usually have even more specific safeguards against hostile takeovers built into them, by very expensive, specialist lawyers. Once again, to prevent the possibility of the kind of thing Empire is portraying from happening. It's hard to believe Lucious wouldn't have consulted those kind of lawyers beforehand, to make very sure he retains ultimate control.
That's kind of hilarious. I thought I put too much thought into this show but I guess it's like those people who evaluate how much money Iron Man's chamber of armors would be worth on the open market.
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How is Hakeem under his mother's thumb? By working with her? He made it clear that he was staying with Dynasty for his own reasons -- to make his own legacy and moves. He told her to leave him alone when he was working with his girl group. Hakeem told Sway he would have the girl group ready in three days even though Cookie told him not to. He is hardly some sycophant.
Cookie has always interrupted business meetings. I just don't get all the sudden annoyance of things she has been doing from the first season. Cookie sass mouths everyone. She is hard on everyone, and whoever that girl was was fine with it. She said it herself, she went to Empire as a business move and that was all. She sass mouthed Tianna last season after she was caught with another girl. I mean, honestly, when has Cookie ever shown a sense of decorum on this show? Was there even one episode where Cookie's behavior would have been approved by Emily Post?
He may not be a sycophant but he's not exactly his own boss at Lyon Dynasty any more than he was at Empire. He is still having a parent over his shoulder at work telling him what to do. He didn't listen at Empire and he's not listening at Lyon Dynasty. I just don't really see much growth for him. He still comes across as a petulant trust fund brat. If he wants to be in charge, why can't he start his own company?
Yeah... Cookie continues to show a lack of decorum, despite months away from prison. I just find it hard to consider her a savvy business woman when she storms into a corporate meeting and interrupts. It shows lack of respect to current leadership and a lack of respect to her prospective employees. Why would anyone who had another option want to work for her ? Why would anyone respect her ? She acts like a spoiled child, making a mess because they don't get their way. Like that dinner scene, she was annoyed at Lucious and she dragged out all the food so that someone else would be forced to clean up the mess. Just like the mess she made with Chris Rock's character. When Cookie and Hakeem bond over make scenes at work functions/places I roll my eyes and want the episode to end.
I guess for me it's a repetition issue. It feels like a sitcom already with characters running in place, going nowhere.
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But there is never going to really be consequences to anything in most of their lives on this show. Lucius is not going to be locked up for 20 years over killing Bunkie. Rhonda is not going to serve a minute of jail time over Vernon. I guess they can be haunted by their actions, but thats going to be about the long and short of it. Andre is having nightmares about it, but if Rhonda isn't going to go to jail for it, he certainly isn't. Jamal isn't going to catch an assault charge for hanging that guy from Creedmoor off a building.
Cookie got a head mailed to her and it served as a way for her to get back in touch with Lucius and for them to have their moment and to establish that no matter what the two of them do to each other he will still always make sure she is safe and taken care of. Without the head we would have never had her reaching out to him. The person who sent her the head has been killed, I'm not sure how much more she needs to stress out about, besides the mental stress of having gotten a head in a box. I don't see this show as being one that delves into introspective therapy sessions for that sort of thing.
I understood Cookie to say that she wanted to start Dynasty to have a legacy for her family. To have a family company that the boys can be a part of. This show has always been about family, business and power. From the first episode of the first season. All of the children worked for Empire/at Empire. Dynasty is simply Cookie's Empire, except she seems to encourage her children to be an integral part of it rather than ruling it with an iron fist the way Lucius does with Empire.
Jamal and Hakeem both see their parents as the best producers out there. If a good producer makes a difference, I would think you would want the best, and a producer that can work well with you. Look at what Missy/Timbaland did for Aaliyah's career.
If you just don't like the characters I think that's an opinion and that's cool. There are plenty of characters on TV that I just don't like.
Personally though, I think it's pretty early in the second season to say that the adult sons have suddenly lost all backbone. Andre never had one to begin with, his greatest act of defiance was probably marrying Rhonda when it was clear that Lucius doesn't like her. Hakeem seems to be standing up to his dad pretty good in these past two episodes by refusing to come back to Empire, working with Cookie (and telling her that he wanted to produce his girl group his way), and calling his dad out in his song. Jamal stood up to Cookie, even though she has been his strongest supporter, however, he doesn't seem much invested in standing up to Lucius, but from where I sit the seeds of dissent between the two of them have been sown.
If you don't like Cookie and Lucius because you feel like they are racist -- I kind of get it, but Lucius hasn't made many racist comments. He called the prosecutor a black bitch in cheap shoes, but I think that was more of a way of him trying to call her an uncle tom. That's the only one I can remember. Cookie has always made comments that are insensitive of both race and sexual orientation so I can't understand how it wasn't a problem last year?
Well let's see Jamal is bowing down to his father's whims, letting himself being used as a puppet after spending the entire first season telling his father he wouldn't bend to him. Hakeem went from being a smart mouthed trust fund brat and sort of favored son of Lucious to being under his mother's thumb. Andre has been abandoned by his dad again and he doesn't want to be in a start up but he's still desperate for his father's approval instead of getting a clue that his father is a prick.
Cookie's racism was less annoying in the first season because she got out of jail like one minute previously and her dissing out Jamal's boy of the week was kind of amusing. Now she's sass mouthing the talent she hasn't bothered signing and the woman who just gave her valuable information after being out of jail for quite a while. She also interrupts business meetings and interviews showing no sense of decorum even though she's saying she's some sort of wannabe business mogul.
As for Lucious he made some really assy comment about not letting Andre inherit because he might have have some biracial kids and he didn't want white people anywhere near his company, totally ignoring the fact that he's selling out his company to the highest bidders by going public. There's also the comments he made about that woman in episode 2 who was standing close to Cookie who bought a controlling interest in the company.
I have no idea if they ended up divesting shares in any particular way since their last meeting about it got interrupted by some crazy dude with a gun.
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I think to enjoy this show you have to have some willing suspension of disbelief. That means, yeah, you make one successful move and in order for the show to demonstrate to you that Dynasty is really getting traction they suddenly have a staff. It means that people make "TV moves" like announcing you're going to bring down a giant record label with your small start up. When you can't suspend disbelief with these shows, I think it ruins the viewing experience. I couldn't do it with How to Get Away With Murder...so I just stopped watching.
I know they all tried a hostile takeover, but didn't they all have shares in the company that would have been sold in the IPO?
I think my problem is that nothing really hangs together in this show. If nothing has consequences for the characters, it makes me less invested in their lives. Andre disposed of Vernon's dead body and seems none too concerned about it, Cookie got a head mailed to her and is more concerned about getting back at her ex husband or something.
Honestly why is Cookie starting a new company to give to her sons ? Shouldn't the point of this series about these adult men actually making their own money instead of being handed Empire or Dynasty once their parents are done with their power plays over their children ?
Jamal and Hakeem are theoretically successful artists, why do either of them need their parents to 'produce' them. I guess I don't really like any of the characters any more because the sons have no backbones and the parents are rampant racists.
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I enjoyed Season 1 because while they were all fighting to take the throne it seemed less hostile somehow as they were merely trying to prove they were a worthy successor to the empire to dying Daddy.
Now it seems like they're all trying to climb all each other to claw it out of Lucious grip and it just comes across as kind of offbeat and petty IMO.
Not that Lucious doesn't deserve to be knocked down like 50 pegs but it all seems like the attempts are so grade school. Hakeem just announces that he essentially stole a song from his previous label and leaked it online. Frankly Cookie and Hakeem both seem to be unable to keep their mouths shut. You don't announce that you're trying to take someone down. YOU JUST DO IT.
They have a start up and they're going against an established brand that has millions of dollars and multiple artists and declaring themselves to be the ones to bring Empire down. All I can think is maybe you should sell a record or something before you get all high and mighty about how you're going to be the next big dogs.
More importantly when did Lyon Dynasty hire so much staff? How are they getting paid? Who's bankrolling this start up ?
I don't know. This show isn't doing it for me, half the time the sub plots show up and disappear so fast it's like wait am I supposed to care that Jamal or Papa Lyon may have a daughter ? No DNA test ? Are we supposed to forget about the head in the box, or Lucious organising a hit in prison or the crazily unprofessional prosecutor. I'm also not a fan of all the casual racism. It's not even funny racism. It's just tedious.
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I totally agree that the "Faking It" parents are great. After years and years of watching teen shows, it's impressive to me when a show is better with "The Olds" than without.
Teen Wolf has some great parents, some of them far more interesting and nuanced than their teenaged offspring who get way more screen time. It was good to finally see that Shane had some family after so long.
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And you're assuming that Cookie/Hakeem would actually fight any lawsuit. The smartest move for them would be to simply ignore it and let Empire put in a bunch of work to prove figures they can't prove. Empire would always have to prove the figures to some degree of certainty.
They can pursue Tianna in court and if she ignores it thats fine too. Good luck getting money out of her even if you get a default judgment. And to get default judgment you still have to prove lost profits.
Empire could bog down Cookie/Hakeem/Tianna -- if any of them chose to pay attention and fight any of those lawsuits. As for Dynasty, as a separate legal entity its not really responsible for the obligations of any of those three people. There is a good case for Dynasty being able to work with Tianna because they have no relationship with Empire and no contract with Empire. So, there is really nothing Empire would have against Dynasty, as a separate legal entity.
Many of those contracts cannot be successfully upheld. This is why most of the time they are settled out of court. A court would take one look at something with no end date that keeps a person from working and pursuing a career and they would throw that out. I scanned the article you provided and it has no example of any of these letters being litigated in court when a band went to another record label.
Tianna can be locked into a 5 year exclusive contract. She can break it. Now what? What do you sue Tianna for? You get an injunction to keep her from recording with Dynasty? Allright, fine, good times. She does it anyways. Now you get an injunction to keep Dynasty from releasing the album. Perhaps, although Dynasty didn't break a contract with Empire so is a court going to punish Tianna for ignoring a court order, or Dynasty? A court order would keep Tianna from recording with Dynasty, it wouldn't keep Dynasty from recording with her. And even if Empire got a C&D against Dynasty, they simply covertly release the album and create buzz for Tianna. Most artists make their money from touring, not from album sales. And if they simply had an injunction against her recording music with Dynasty, does that really cover live performances? Perhaps it keeps her from performing music that belongs to Empire, but if its not written with Empire but by artists at Dynasty, that music doesn't even belong to Empire anymore, so how can they keep her from performing music live that belongs to another record label? You can try getting money from Tianna -- but how can you prove with any degree of certainty how much you've lost in profits? You really can't.
The billionaire is going to be able to take a hard line look at this situation and realize that it likely doesn't make much sense to fight over Tianna when she wasn't bringing much to Empire's bottom line as it is. Keeping Lucius happy makes sense, but where else is Lucius going to go? She certainly isn't going go want to give more attention and sympathy to a competitor that is small and just stole an artist she doesn't care about. Or maybe she has Lucius sensibilities and wants to fight every small battle. But she should realize that even if she were to fight this battle its uncertain that it would result in a win for her, but it would certainly result in bad press. Bad press can do more to hurt a company than spending a few hundred thousand dollars on a lawsuit you likely won't be able to enforce for an artist that doesn't mean much to your label.
I'll try and be concise since this is getting way off topic but
A) if they refuse to show up, default judgements are probably going to go against them and they'd still end up owing money to Empire. By not showing up they're more likely to lose the fight.
B) Tianna could owe Empire money for promotion costs, recording costs, distribution costs and other sundry costs that would have been taken out of any future earnings and since she's theoretically a low to mid range Empire talent, there's no indication that she could pay for that out of pocket.
C) If Hakeem and Cookies are sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars and have a default judgement against them for not showing up how exactly are they going to bankroll Dynasty ?
D) You're assuming that the contract terms are unreasonable. If it's only a one year non compete agreement, it's unlikely to be struck down by a judge for being unreasonable. Especially if none of the Dynasty Crew shows up to contest it for being unreasonable in the first place.
E) You're assuming the woman who spent 200 million dollars on a controlling share of a company is going to be worried about a few hundred thousand dollars of litigation costs. We've seen no indication that this woman cares about bottom lines. Why would litigating against traitorous family members and a bailing artist be considered bad press. It would sell the image that Lucious is a stone cold operator in the minds of the public.
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I don't remember that from the first episode. however, the fact remains, what relief does Empire seek from the courts for the breach of contract?
Do they put an injunction on Cookie from working for Dynasty? Okay -- there are a million and one ways around that. Including putting a figurehead at the company that Cookie can control and being a shadow dictator. Can they sue Cookie for damages? Good luck trying to prove damages. Can they sue Cookie for liquidated damages? Thats another good luck scenario since you would have to show that the liquidated damages were a reasonable effort to approximate actual damages. So, at best they maybe get an injunction on the non-compete clause, which Cookie can easily get around.
Jamal can't prove that Hakeem told him anything, and Hakeem has a bevy of people running with him all the time. All he has to do is say that someone took his laptop and released the album. He wouldn't even have to pick out a particular person, since he would simply say he left his laptop out and someone got to it. If pressed I'm sure any one of his low level crew would take the rap for him. And good luck enforcing a judgment against any of those people.
Actually both Cookie and Hakeem come off as the sort that could use online sources to make money off of their music. And they don't even need to build the website per se. All they need to do is use the internet and other sources to create the buzz. Radio stations aren't going to keep from playing an album that is getting tons of attention online and in the media because Lucius Lyon says not to. Not when they are competing with online stations and online sources for listeners. Both Cookie and Hakeem know how to use the media and online sources to create a buzz. And all you need is the Lyon name to create a media buzz and interest. So, I don't think Lucius will necessarily be able to black ball them, because any project they do will create a buzz and interest.
For the release of Hakeem's album online the damages would be speculative at best. Because even if Hakeem released the album any legal use of the music would be paid for, and the money would go to Empire. Damages have to be proven with certainty. How can you prove how much you lost in revenue if you're making money back from the project? Damages would already be speculative, but now that you're actually getting money from the album damages are even more speculative.
Empire is now held, in large part, by someone else. Its no longer Lucius's personal pet. If billionaire, who doesn't really have a dog in this fight says to drop it, its going to be dropped. And there is not much logic in fighting lawsuits you don't have much chance of winning against a small record label. If anything all you'll do is get bad press from the entire thing. And even if Empire were to wage that war, both Hakeem and Cookie could simply ignore the lawsuits and let them go to default. And even to get a default judgement Empire would have to prove damages with a degree of certainty. Even with a default judgment you can't get speculative damages. But even if they did, good luck to Empire trying to enforce a judgment, as the money would likely be well hidden by the time they came sniffing around for it. And if either invested their money in Dynasty there is no way Empire gets the money from Dynasty to satisfy a personal judgment against Hakeem/Cookie.
Tianna has the contract with Empire, Dynasty does not. Dynasty doesn't have to pay a thing for Empire's contract with Tianna. It has nothing to do with them. Tianna may look at the risk/reward scenario and realize that she will never be top shelf at Empire, but she may be able to have that position with Dynasty. It may be worth the risk especially given the fact that Empire's suit against her would isn't a slam dunk because of how difficult it would be to prove damages. Empire may be able to get an injunction against Tianna because of her contract, but I don't see how they could get an injunction against Dynasty to release an album of Tianna's because Dynasty wasn't a party to the contract. And then what is the remedy for someone who breaks an injunction? Ignoring a court order is never a good look, but really, how much trouble is she going to get into with the court for doing that? Likely next to nothing.
And even if Empire were able to get an injunction against Dynasty to prevent the release of Tianna's album they could still leak it and claim they have no idea who did it.
Tianna feels a deep sense of loyalty to Cookie, and it doesn't seem like her career is going anywhere with Empire. Tianna wants to be a star, and from what I remember her career wasn't going much of anywhere until Cookie took over. She sees Cookie as the only one that can guide her career to the places she wants it to go and so she will go wherever Cookie is. Being signed to a big label but not getting any attention or press doesn't do anything for an artist. If they aren't using the established networks to help your career it likely doesn't much matter.
You're assuming that Empire would use litigation to get payment, when Empire if it was actually a multimillion dollar company would be using litigation as a stalling tactic and as punishment. If they pursue Tianna in court, it will provide an example of what happens to artists that try and abandon Empire for greener pastures. Their legal team could bog down Tianna, Hakeem and Cookie in personal litigation for weeks or months, reducing their ability to produce and distribute music until the matter is resolved. As for how they'd enforce it, well there's cease and desist orders on the distribution of music, personal liens, fines and so forth. They could appeal or they could try and ignore it but I'd imagine that Empire could just go to the court and continue litigation indefinitely.
For example in the real world record executives use A & R reps to have bands sign a letter of intent that has no end date that locks band into a limbo until a record contract is signed. For all we know Tianna is locked into a 5 record deal and an exclusivity contract.
http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17
Dynasty is under no obligation to help Tianna with the costs of breaking the contract but I can't imagine that it'd help them if she was broke because of their failed power play. As for the billionaire, she may not care about Tianna either way but if she wants to keep Empire profitable and Lucious happy then she wouldn't mind shelling out a few hundred thou to bury anyone who might try and take away her newly acquired company and the assets (artists) that entails.'
ETA: Didn't Hakeem ditch his posse when they tried to mug his brother for his watch ? I don't think he rolls with anyone these days, hence why he was helping his mom sweep the floor.
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I don't see why Dynasty would buy out Tianna's contract at all -- Tianna has the contract with Empire. Dynasty has no contract with Empire. If Tianna wants to take the risk and work with Dynasty and risk getting sued that really would be her decision. Most artists wouldn't make that decision but Dynasty wouldn't be on the hook for Tianna's contract since they have no contract with Empire. And her contract would likely have a liquidated damages amount for breach since damages are hard to prove. But then the question becomes, does that liquidated amount reflect a realistic estimate of what Empire would lose if Tianna jumped ship and recorded with Dynasty? If not, the liquidated damages provision is thrown out and the only amount that Empire collects is actual damages which must be proven with a degree of certainty. This is why it would most likely be settled out of court -- because its near impossible to prove that the liquidated damages clause is reasonable, and its hard to prove lost profits once that clause is thrown out. But that would be on Tianna's shoulders, not Dynasty.
I disagree about Lucius having Cookie sign anything. I think that Empire has grown into a billion dollar concern, but at its heart its a family business. I don't see Lucius trying to force Cookie to sign anything, but just putting her on the payroll. Lucius isn't going to run his Empire the way Andre would. Andre would force Cookie to sign contracts. Thats not Lucius's way. Lucius always imagined that Cookie was loyal to Empire and a personality like his wouldn't be able to see that Cookie would assert her independence by starting a new label. When she started, Lucius likely assumed he was simply doing her a favor and that she wouldn't have as much success as she does with artists. Or, he was trying to get out of giving her her piece of the pie by giving her a job. And by the time she did he probably didn't care that she hadn't signed a contract.
As far as Cookie not having a legal leg to stand on because it was illegally obtained money. Thats very true, however, if the funds were illegally obtained that means the government legally owns Empire. So, Cookie can go scorched earth if she can show the initial investment for Empire came from illegal drug money and Lucius knew it was illegal drug money. So, she still has the bargaining chip to hold over Lucius's head.
Lucius is just as, if not more arrogant than Cookie. The idea that she would start her own label likely never even crossed his mind so I don't see him forcing her to sign anything.
Actually, Hakeem seems more likely to have been the one to have to sign a standard contract with Empire which may have included language that prevented him recording on another label. But that would be more of an artists contract that would include an exclusivity agreement and non-compete for the recording work he did. So Hakeem couldn't record with another label for a while, but could he manage other artists and start his own company? It's likely the contract for a recording artist would only foresee that artist potentially recording with another label, not signing artists under their own. There may even be legal issues in trying to control the ability of an artist to start their own label to sign and record other artists.
A court would be unlikely to uphold a provision of a contract that prevented a party from doing something that isn't the subject of the contract. If your contract is to record an album, but the contract includes provisions that prevent a party from doing something that isn't really connected to recording their album its less likely the court is going to uphold that provision of the contract.
This fledgling business would be a separate entity. It would likely be organized as an LLC to avoid liability on the part of the company for the actions of Cookie/Hakeem. The company has no contracts with Empire at all. The company would sign all contracts with future artists. The company wouldn't have any liability. Empire could sue Cookie and Hakeem as individuals if they even had signed agreements with non-compete clauses. I doubt Cookie had one, and I think if Hakeem had one it was as an artist. Either way, even if the individuals were sued by Empire they could simply ignore the lawsuits and allow them to go to default. Good luck to Empire getting any of the money from either party, since they would basically be getting back Empire's money at the end of the day. And very little of it at that since most of their money would likely have gone to the LLC and would be nearly impossible to get back since the LLC is an entirely separate legal entity. The company itself however could still sign artists. Cookie and Hakeem would be personally sued for breach of contract. Dynasty -- the company -- would not.
Empire would need to prove that Hakeem even leaked that album. Beyond that they would need to prove damages. Even in seeking a default judgment damages have to be proven separate of the actual case in default. Hakeem leaked his album, but it still belongs to Empire so Empire would still get the profits from Hakeem's leaked album. Any radio station that plays it would have to pay Empire for the play. Anyone who legally downloaded it would have to pay Empire for the rights. So, how do you prove damages when Empire is still getting paid? If you can prove Hakeem leaked it you may be able to sue him for breach of contract and a liquidated amount. But I think a court would be less likely to uphold a liquidated damages provision since it wouldn't really closely mirror the amount of revenue lost since Empire would still be getting revenue from the album. A liquidated damages amount would assume no profits made from the album. So, its a very tricky situation.
They could try to blacklist Dynasty -- but people love an underdog. And the story of big bad Empire trying to kill off the tiny David Dynasty will more than likely make people sympathetic to the cause. Especially if Dynasty manages to sign artists like Tianna and Vi. And those are two artists that may have had contracts with Empire. Any new acts Dynasty signs would all be fine for them to move forward with. Does Empire really have the pull, in this age of a label being able to release anything online to really keep Dynasty's music from getting out there? I don't think so. If this had been....oh 20 years ago before the internet was such a force and music had the ability to "go viral" than maybe. But in a world where most people get their music online, and you can create a buzz online you can't just control major radio stations and kill an album or an artist or a label.
I'm aware that Dynasty has no backstory with Empire... YET.
My point was that Cookie signed a contract in her very first episode of this show. Minute 40:42 with Lucious in a board room with 4 lawyers and presumably a legal clerk/assistant telling Cookie where to sign. Where she doesn't even LOOK at the contracts before signing. Presumably she'd have to sign even more paperwork when she got a promotion/new job as a manager for Empire artists, so that she couldn't take any Empire talent unless their contracts had expired or been terminated by the record company.
Lucious the man who expects betrayal around every turn would totally get his ex wife to sign a contract stopping her from running away from his sphere of influence.
As for whether Lucious has the pull to kill Dynasty... well they kept making a big deal about how he knows the POTUS so I'm going to say he has enough power to at least slow down the release of any more of Hakeem's Empire owned stuff.
As for whether Jamal can prove it, Hakeem already told him that he did and Hakeem is probably dumb enough to have done it from his own laptop so it's not going to take a lot of effort to verify.
Admittedly Dynasty can release music via online sources but do Cookie or Hakeem seem like the sort of people that could create a website that could monetise downloads of music. Anyway Hakeem leaked his music. We have no idea if he did so on Empire's website so we have no idea whether Empire will get any money back from the money invested in producing that song in the first place so Empire may have some ground for damages.
As for whether they'd win, that's highly debatable but Empire has billions of dollars to fight a war and Dynasty has ? money from Cookie's and Hakeem's time in Empire's employ. I'd doubt they'd last long in a legal arena against high priced lawyers.
I'd imagine that for Tianna it'd be easier to pay whatever the cost is to break the contract and have her new label pick up the cost so Dynasty would have to pay otherwise why the hell would Tianna leave Empire which has established networks for an organisation out in nowhere with no monetised distribution networks?
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Just a bit of a nit pick, but how can Tianna just leave Empire, I would assume she is under contract and if her contract was up Cookie should sign her ASAP. When Tianna threaten to leave the Lion Dynasty I rolled my eyes. No wonder Andre wants to leave, you get a artist like Tianna and don't immediately sign her to a deal??? bad business move. Cookie keeps pretending that she was there for the rise of the Empire, no you were there for the start of the Empire. Cookie is a horrible business person, starting with believing that Jamal and Luscious won't sue her and Hakeem because they are family. Hello you are Jamal's mother and tried to take the company from him you have no loyalty but expect no demand them to have some.
I'd imagine they could buy out Tianna's contract but it would take some time.
As for Cookie she has an overinflated sense of importance. Managing one artist 20 years ago does not mean you can compete in the very cut throat world of business now.
But wasn't half her money used to start it? Isn't that why and rightly so if this is correct, that she's fighting for her piece?
I don't know I wasn't watching from the beginning but I could have sworn I heard that in the previews when the show was starting that it was half her money that got the company off the ground.
And, she was the drug dealer? In the flashbacks it didn't look like Luscious was a dealer? Was it just her?
Considering it was illegally obtained money she doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on. Also at the very start of the show she used that as a bargaining chip to get herself a very big salary based on very little experience including a contract that basically meant she could never bring it up again.
She's already been paid back for her initial investment and had an opportunity to have a high paying salary indefinitely as long as she didn't rock the boat. That wasn't enough and she tried to organise a hostile take over to depose one son as head of company so that she could use the youngest son as a puppet to run the company herself.
As for Cookie insisting that Jamal wouldn't sue -- I actually think that's a very real statement. If Cookie is setting up a record company, then Jamal would be suing the record company. A record company that has no assets. And suing the record company for what exactly? Tortious interference with a business contract? Because they stole Tianna away? Maybe, but that would be hard to prove. I doubt that any of them signed employment agreements or non-compete agreements -- so what would Jamal sue them for personally? Not to mention that Lucius does have a soft spot for Cookie, and she for him. And Jamal isn't nearly as cutthroat as Lucius, he cried after he spoke harshly to Cookie, and wanted to give Hakeem his album back.
While I agree that Tiana's contract could be bought out at a fairly low price or litigated away, I highly doubt Lucious would have allowed his mud slinging ex wife of the first episode to sign anything less than the most legally binding of agreements to make sure she kept her mouth shut and her claws out of his company. That would have included Non disclosure agreements, Non compete clauses and anything else his very high priced lawyers would have added. Knowing Cookie she probably didn't even read the small print. Cookie was allowed into the upper echelons of the company, there is no way Lucious wouldn't have gotten her to sign something with teeth.
Of course most of that could be avoided by having Hakeem be the face of the company... Except that Hakeem as favored son of Lucious at the time would have also been signed up to a non disclosure and quite likely an exclusivity deal.
So this fledgeling business would have to buy/ rent property in the city, hire some really expensive lawyers to fight any potential suits from Empire and get distribution rights/ agreements with any new talent they hire since they probably can't afford to hire or buy out any of the talent out of the Empire label as they're living on the money from . Hakeem as acting CEO of Empire would have a few grounds to sue his family members, they probably accessed sensitive information so they could show Very Rich Lesbian (I don't know her name) why it'd be worth spending millions on to get controlling share of the company so they would be on the hook for exposing the company secrets to an unknown third party. They'd also be liable for illegally distributing Hakeem's song which was probably expensively recorded by Empire Records so at that point he wouldn't have distribution rights so unless he just sang it on his own and released that he'd probably be on the hook for stealing company property.
I don't think Jamal could sue the company for anything successfully because the new business technically hasn't done anything wrong by hiring a previously employed artist but Jamal or Lucious could still blacklist the company with every distribution network in the city. It wouldn't stop them from becoming a new indie label but Empire could definitely bury Cookie and Jamal in paperwork they wouldn't understand for years.
Not that I believe the show will mention or go into any of those details because SNORE... but it's not like Cookie or Jamal can't be sued personally. Jamal wouldn't even need to be involved, he would just have to give the word to Empire's legal department and they'd bury Cookie in boring paper.
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What would we call that greenhouse zombie ? Ent zombie or zombie ent ?
That drug gang is the worst, you'd think they'd want to increase their customer base by helping to find a cure and selling it to the highest bidder. Honestly with the current death rate of this show, it's hard to imagine that their customer base wouldn't be shrinking rapidly every day.
What happened to that guy in red from the last episode? Did Cassandra or Murphy eat him ?
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I think the part I've disliked most about this season is that it seems like they're trying to paint them as OTT evil and give them morals. It comes across as the characters being flimsy and wish washy all of a sudden.
They should have left them as amoral career politicians who share a weird sort of reptilian love with each other and sometimes lure in a third for novelty/ leverage.
Now they just come across as quick to anger and floundering around while having attacks of conscience after despoiling a grave and a jesus statue about what it all means.
IMO they were more likeable when they had a clear purpose, now it just seems like they're treading water until the election and it's dull.
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I find it hilarious that Frank becomes petulant and verbally abusive whenever anyone disrespects him as a President, when he dismantled the last president behind his back. Frank had the advantage while trying to gain power, he was in a position of trust and his main focus was obtaining the presidency, his opponent didn't even know Frank was gunning for him. The president of Russia has experience as an actual leader and isn't as naive as the last POTUS and isn't as easily manipulated as the people who were in the first 2 seasons.
Dude expects loyalty and has shown none to anyone. If you buy someone you can't expect their loyalty, nor can you expect happy cooperation when you bully someone into agreeing with you at metaphorical gun point. I'm not surprised Freddy is tired of Frank's bullshit but quietly hides his contempt, he works in customer service, smiling and nodding is not an indication of friendship.
Frank hasn't earned loyalty or respect from anyone in government. He was handed the presidency and during his time as interim president he's made a bunch of unilateral decisions alienating basically all other branches of governments along with at least 2 other foreign governments. Appointing your wife as a UN ambassador made them both look weak and pathetic.
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S02.E05: Meet Bonnie
in How To Get Away With Murder [V]
· Edited by wayne67
I think my problem with Annalise and the murder 4 is that she was under no obligation to help them cover up their crimes... Unlike her PAYING CLIENTS. It's one thing to cover up murders if you're getting paid or they are your friends... but the only reason I can understand her covering up for them is that she wanted more people to surround her that feels indebted to her.
She's not a lawyer who happens to cover up murders, she's actively trying to find the most guiltiest looking people around to defend because she's bored and depressed and there's apparently nothing good on tv in her universe. Also she has at least 2 other murderers on her payroll... So it's not an incidental lawyery thing but something she actively pursues in her personal and professional life.
If she wanted to not see the murderers who murdered her husband (like most sane people would prefer) she could just kick them to the curb and tell them not to get involved in illegal shit. Instead she's constantly getting them to commit one sort of crime or another for her benefit. Like harassing the interns to hack the police department.