[S16.E13: Week 13]

Just now, chocolatine said:

If it was that important to Tayshia, she definitely should have brought it up much sooner. She and Ivan had a 1:1 date early on; she could have brought it up then.

There have been too many interviews but I’m sure I read a recap or two that said tayshia DID talk about religion on the show. The men knew her views. It was Ivan who didn’t bring up his views until FS, which is why he apologized for not bringing it up sooner. Ivan knew Tayshia’s beliefs. Tayshia was the one in the dark.

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Just now, AllyCat7 said:

I should have beens specific. I meant more using them to sleep together. Not judging. Just saying what would be considered conservative, that's all. Yeah, Sean was conservative in his approach. And like you said, we don't really know what went down in the suites, so I won't conjecture too much 🤪

Got it. I did notice tayshia wasn’t show waking up with anyone like Sean wasn’t, which we typically see i.e. Clare and dale, hannah with peter and jed (and she’s Christian!). So it seems she at least cared about appearances unlike our typical leads lol

I think you have to say yes to FS because it’s the only time you get off camera even if you’re not interested in sex.

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14 minutes ago, AllyCat7 said:

The thing I'm confused about is didn't Tayshia say, before Ben arrived, that she was giving both roses to Zac and Ivan in that final rose ceremony?  I'm pretty sure she said that. If the religion thing became a factor after the FS date then why would she say she would give him a rose at that ceremony? So confusing.

No offense, but I wouldn't necessarily call someone who does FS dates conservative. Christian? Sure. Conservative? Nah.

Why? You can literally spend FS up all night talking. I don’t know about tayshia’s FS. But I would consider Sean Lowe who did FS conservative, for sure, and he didn’t sleep with anyone. 

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10 minutes ago, AllyCat7 said:

The thing I'm confused about is didn't Tayshia say, before Ben arrived, that she was giving both roses to Zac and Ivan in that final rose ceremony?  I'm pretty sure she said that. If the religion thing became a factor after the FS date then why would she say she would give him a rose at that ceremony? So confusing.

Brendan left! He’s Christian. He would’ve totally got the second rose. I wonder if tayshia told the producer Ivan was a no go and that’s why we got that fake talk with Rachel about Ben and they went back and got Ben?

if you watch tayshia the morning after her FS with Ivan, she looked noticeably cold. I think he was totally going home until Brendan walked out. 

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^ Thank you for sharing. I am Christian, and while I could consider marrying a man of a different faith, I would have trouble marrying a man who did not believe in anything at all.

If you want a “traditional” Christian marriage, which involves man submitting to God. (I’m assuming this is what tayshia wants) I don’t know how that’s feasible with an agnostic. Would be curious to know how Christian women make that work. I would think someone’s beliefs would have to change.

I believe Catherine was not a Christian before the show but is now and actually got baptized before marrying Sean.

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Tayshia didn’t say what Ivan’s views were out of respect for his privacy and there was a segment of the audience upset she didn’t say more and they didn’t hear the conversation. No winning here. But I’m not sure why he would think he could go on a show about marriage and not discuss religion with the woman he’s pursuing.

edited to add: that I agree with the point that stuff like that maybe needs to be asked before fantasy suite. Because Ivan shouldn’t have made it to hometowns. 
 

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4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Ivan went on Kaitlyn Bristowe's podcast today and explained about the religious differences. I didn't listen to the podcast, but there's a writeup of it on the People website. TLDR: Ivan is agnostic (*not* an atheist); the subject came up when they were in the FS and Tayshia asked him if he'd want to raise his children to be religious; he said he was OK with children experiencing religion and going to church, but he was not going to pretend to believe in things that he doesn't. Of course it's just his side of the story, but it sounds very reasonable and makes me respect him more. I think it was just a convenient excuse for Tayshia to eliminate him. If he had been her chosen one, I don't think agnosticism would have been a deal breaker.

Tayshia is a conservative Christian. She said her and Zac pray daily, together. Would have absolutely been an issue. Ivan would not have wanted to be with tayshia either (speaking for agnostic friends who stay far away from religious people, romantically)

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1 hour ago, Stats Queen said:

This was just so frustrating, because we, the viewers, were left bewildered, because we had absolutely no context for this conversation. 

So either it was a poor editing/producing job and all conversations about faith and beliefs were edited out or Tayshia did not have a discussion about faith with her potential, potential husbands prior to the fantasy suites. One is a really bad look for the producers the other is not a good look for Tayshia. Either way, it was a disservice to us viewers who are stuck at home and and watching this show because we really do ask so little from this franchise, but no context is no bueno.

Additionally, I wonder if part of the abrupt ending for Ivan was respecting his wishes. He has now come out and stated he is agnostic today and many of his family and friends did not know. I can totally understand Ivan’s hesitation to share on camera and tayshia respected him by not spelling it out for the audience. 

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Rachel spilled that tayshia told her it was over, she was picking Zac when she came to visit. 

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2 minutes ago, After7Only said:

I was half listening during the Ivan breakup, as could see it coming as soon as Ben knocked on the door...

I missed the religion talk, but Ivan is half Filipino.  Many Filipinos are Catholic .   Maybe Ivan wanted to raise their future kids Catholic and Tasia used that as her flimsy excuse to be rid of him?

 

Ivan stated on social media tayshia wanted to date a Christian man and he is not religious

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6 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Uh ok....?? I said that a long time ago we can agree to disagree and that everyone has an opinion  I am curious, however, since you said she keeps her personal life private, how then do you know anything other than what she wants you to see?  I can make my assumptions, and you are making yours, so it really is the same.  None of us really know these people and I have said that several times.    
I saw a women that was forcing chemistry with most of the men to make a good show. All the desperate grabbing face kisses..and giggly banter. Since we don't know her, why do we know that is real?   And I already said Ivan seems to have a good opinion of her....so yes, they  all won. But I think she did not show her real self on the show, or they gave her a bad edit in some ways and a too good edit in others.   Since I am not the only one who feels that way and there are people who watch the show who feel the same way, there must be a "there there."  

People followed many celebrities for years and knew nothing about their real lives...Bill Cosby and a few others come to mind.  The media is great at making you feel a certain way about people...for some it is positive for others negative.  I bring him up because again my BS detector is great. My family lauds me from saying since I was a child something was off about him and I didn't trust him....when he was an ICON an America's Dad....

I’m not making assumptions. I’ve made clear I don’t know how tayshia leads her private life, whom she’s dated, what she likes, unlike others. I can only tell you what she’s said and her actions on the shows I’ve watched. She could be a hot mess in real life. No clue. She keeps her private business behind close doors.

She found a way to make money off this show and maybe find a husband without exposing her private business, while maintaining a good public image. I get some don’t like it. But I say good for her. The people who come on here and expose too much always regret it in the end and need a lot of therapy when it’s done i.e. our last bachelorette Hannah Brown, who’s still not over how she exposed herself to the world last year.

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12 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

As he should...and me sitting here with my WHITE husband has no issue with who Tayshia dates or chooses, but she was not really open, and that is my point. Ivan said he had dated all  types of people which to me is a plus that he was really open to finding out about Claire. I have no issue with Ivan dating white women or whomever he was dating.  As I said, he was recruited as was Brendan, Joe, Noah and several others,  But for the shut down and Corona and feeling a certain way I doubt many of the men who are on this show would be here and they came to get a vacation and see what happens. I am not mad at that. 

 

 She had time after that relationship and between franchise shows to change her life before being put in an artificial world. Yes, I think she said she was open, but was she really?  Similar to Tayshia the first time I dated interracially it was a LAWWWT.  It took me a while to get comfortable with hand holding, etc.  and I had white, hispanic, etc. friends all my life.   

Some people are hung up on trying to insinuate that I feel Tayshia should have chosen a man of color...not at all.  I think ANY lead should have a real history of dating a variety of people if they are going to cast a variety of people.  People should choose who they are attracted to or who fits their lifestyle and not string others along, especially not for how it is going to play out on television or decide national television is the time to experiment. I already said I think Ivan held back because he knew and decided to see where it would go and at some point decided to play it to the end, but I do think along the way it became real to him. "99% of people in Ivan's age range these days live it up on social media.  Again, he wants to start a charity.....he is raising his profile...GOOOOOO Ivan. 

With COVID and the world uncertainty I don't see him quitting his job any time soon, but based upon the goals he stated that is not at all unrealistic.....

 

No offense, but you keep making references to tayshia’s life, and How do you know anything about her life? You’ve stated many times you don’t watch the show. I do and I’ve been following her for years and she barely post her private life and even those posts are influence-y. She’s not a sharer. People are making a whole lot of assumptions. She has a public image that she makes money off of. Her sm is the same as she was on the show. 

We can agree to disagree on tayshia being open. I saw a woman who was more open to different types of men than I’ve seen since watching this franchise. She had maybe four black men to choose from and had chemistry with none of them. She helped Riley and Ivan out by giving them screentime. And they both seem happy with her. I’m not sure what more she could do for them. They all won. 

6 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Because she said out of her own mouth to Ivan that she had NO ONE HER OWN age that was Bi racial or had the background like she did to relate to or talk to.......but hey, maybe that was editing because I know , "she was being real with y'all."  I could still be wrong, but I don't get all caught up in these people so if I am, oh well.

I have no idea but when did she start talking about this Latina connection within the franchise?? Of course she identified as Black because uh, that's how the world was going to see her.  Until recently they didn't even have the choices on forms of Black/Hispanic or Black Non Hispanic s they do on some.   I am actually glad that she is talking about her dual heritage because I also think it is important and wish Claire had done the same....

She did not say she had no one she could speak to, at all. She said she wasn’t going to bring it up on the show and hasn’t really spoke about it. She has a black father and three black siblings after all. But not all black people sit around talking about BLM.

She’s been talking about being mexican since she started doing interviews.

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Tayshia stated she self identified as black up until high school because that’s what she looks like. As she got older she realized how silly she was given how connected she is to her mom’s side of the family and wanted to identify as such. She also spoke on the numerous mexican women reaching out to her because mexican women, like black women, do not get the sort of glamorous I’m the prize promotion than the Bachelorette provides. Taking all this into consideration, she wanted to make sure to state she is also a mexican bachelorette. And she wants to be sure to not just say Latina, but mexican for that reason as well.

 

edited to add: I’ve been following tayshia for years. She does not post her day to date. She keeps her personal life, private, family and friends. So I’m not sure how people are making assumptions about her friends groups when she barely posts about her life. Her page has been “ig professional” since coming on this franchise. She makes her sponsored posts and bounces.

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Ivan is no different than Ben. He was there to be seen and has several interviews lined up. He’s already on the prowl. He’s not upset; he didn’t want tayshia. He was putting on his bachelor performance at the end like Ben. 

As far as her dating preferences, her mother is Mexican and her dad is black. According to her own words, she’s been in one relationship; her ex husband. He was her first boyfriend and she casually dated after him and on the show. I saw a woman who was open to all types and actually end up with a man she probably never thought she would. 

Ivan, like most MOC on the franchise, also dates outside his race. He came on the show for a white bachelorette. Tayshia let him get the tv exposure which will help him switch careers like most come on this show to do. I’m not seeing what she did to him. He’s living it up per social media.

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1 minute ago, TheFinalRose said:

Never saw Chris Harrison forget his poker face before upon greeting the F1. But this time he definitely did.  

I’m telling you he’s relieved. Colton, Hannah b, Peter, Clare...

back to the train wreck with Matt no doubt 

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Just now, EllenB said:

He sounded lost with no manufactured DRAHMAH! to drag into it.

I don’t like him but actually thought he sounded relieved. Even Chris must want a break from the drama every now and then

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I feel like Chris has had to do nothing since tayshia took over for Clare. He must be thrilled. 

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1 minute ago, EllenB said:

Am I watching the right show? I swear I just saw about a half hour of adults having meaningful conversations, then one of those adults letting someone else go as kindly as possible. What's the name of this program?

Tayshia has truly pleasantly surprised me all year. Yes there was some producer prodding they could’ve kept but it didn’t overtake the season. I think *knock on wood* we are getting a nice normal happy ending. How many seasons has it been?

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Just now, Kiss my mutt said:

How do we know Zac’s family is loaded? 

On a social media bachelor account they found his fathers tech company. They said it was worth 300 million. No clue how true it is. On Instagram they definitely come off as wealthy but I didn’t think they were that loaded.

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1 minute ago, EllenB said:

Ben who?

Right. 
 

1 minute ago, Kiss my mutt said:

This show is so predictable in its “unpredictability”. Ben is one weird dude. 
Tayshia putting the feelers about being a sahm was interesting. She seems like she’d prepping him for not wanting to get a job. 

rumor has it his family is loaded. She can help him with his addiction treatment facilities. She’s good with people. Might be perfect set up for her actually. 

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Well I think Zac won dad over 

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1 minute ago, catrice2 said:

Well notice she also said all along that FAMILY was the most important thing, yet Ben seems to have a strange family dynamic and she is not worried about that or what place his faith played in his difficulties.....but she is worried about Ivan.....So much BS

Atheism is harder to overlook, if true

but to me Ben is a producer pick for f2 and that’s all. I couldn’t fathom her choosing him either. They swapped two dead ends. IMO

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2 minutes ago, Ripley68 said:

I"m a little worried.  We're only a half hour in, Zac's date isn't going to take an hour and a half.  What crap are they going to throw at T and us now?

Don’t we have to do some sort of catch up? I know there is no ATFR. But surely there will be a zoom call or something the last segment, no?

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1 minute ago, catrice2 said:

I am worried about religion, but I am dating and potentially sleeping with multiple men.....you gotta love it! 

We had a very religious bachelor. He didn’t sleep with anyone. He was abstinent. He’s the only bachelor still with the woman he chose.

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6 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

We don’t know that she hasn’t mentioned it...we only see 10 minutes out of 2 to 3 hour dates.  

And every profile I have read about Tayshia has mentioned the importance of her faith, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard her mention it before. 

I mentioned in another thread tayshia talks about her faith a lot off the show so I was curious why we didn’t see that on her season. Producers might’ve cut because we’ve had religious storylines two years in a row (Peter/Madi and Hannah/Luke)