strikera0
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I just found this article:
Quote'Arrow': Why Black Siren Can Still Be Redeemed
Arrow is currently at the tail end of a month-long hiatus, meaning viewers won't have to wait too long to see what happens next with the various costumed citizens of Star City.
In the meantime, fans have speculated quite a bit about what will come next for the series, wondering what exactly Ricardo Diaz (Kirk Acevedo) is after, how Roy Harper (Colton Haynes) will re enter the fold, and the like. And one question has popped up quite a bit as well: what is next forLaurel Lance/Black Siren (Katie Cassidy).
Earth-2 Laurel has been a bonafide fan-favorite since she first appeared in The Flash's second season, with her presence only growing as she jumped over to Arrow a little over a year ago. More often than not, she has been an adversary of Team Arrow, largely through her work with both Adrian Chase/Prometheus (Josh Segarra) and Cayden James (Michael Emerson). But almost since she made her first debut, fans have been eagerly wondering what Laurel's future holds, and if there's a chance that she could join the good side.
This conversation has only increased in recent months, caused by both fan discussion (shout out to the #RedemptionForBlackSiren hashtag) and Arrow itself. Over the course of the season, Quentin Lance (Paul Blackthorne) has grown to see the good in his daughter's doppelganger, after she set him free from a hostage situation. Since then, Laurel's redemption has been teased more and more, with Quentin introducing aspects of Earth-1 Laurel's life to her, and Laurel offering to essentially sacrifice herself during the villain team's standoff with Cayden.
Even then, not everyone has come around to the idea of Laurel's redemption, with some citing particular instances in canon (we'll get to one particular one in a bit), or just wanting to see Laurel continue to operate in a sort of fun villain role. But in a way, the apprehension about Laurel getting redeemed - and even the apprehension that some Arrow characters have shown about it - feels like its missing the point.
Okay, so let's talk about the elephant in the Arrow Cave - Laurel having a hand in killing Vincent Sobel/Vigilante (Johann Urb) in "All For Nothing". While Laurel has killed or injured an array of people over her Arrowverse tenure, this particular scene rubbed quite a few Arrow fans the wrong way, and led to some arguing that Laurel is too far gone to become a hero.
So, let's put aside whether or not Laurel wanted to kill Vigilante, as an argument can be made that she was essentially being forced to by Cayden. You know what Arrow has proved, time and time again? That killing someone - even a supporting character who some were invested in - does not make you irredeemable.
Almost everyone on Team Arrow has notable deaths under their belt for one reason or another, whether it be Felicity Smoak's Havenrock, John Diggle's time in the military, or Dinah Drake's quest for revenge when she thought Vince had initially died. Heck, most fans have lost track of the number of people Oliver Queen has killed over Arrow's past six years.
And even looking at the track record of past Arrow villains, characters have ended up being seen in a positive light quite a bit. Malcolm Merlyn went back and forth from a mastermind to a sort of awkward family member over the years, and ultimately died in what was regarded as a hero's sacrifice. Slade Wilson arguably had the biggest heel-face turn of all, going from delivering the most shocking kill in Arrow's history to teaming up with Oliver in a matter of a few years.
All of those characters have gotten second chances, and are seen as the heroes of the story in one way or another. So why can't Laurel be a hero as well?
Which by the way, some of the apprehension around Laurel's redemption can probably be contributed to the fear of the unknown. We largely don't know a lot of her Earth-2 backstory, aside from pieces of her childhood and how she got her powers. We know that she's experienced a lot of loss - namely with Earth-2 Quentin and Oliver - which somewhat motivated her to lose hope and put up a guard. Outside of that, things are somewhat...vague.
But just because we don't know what the exact circumstances of her Earth-2 life were, doesn't mean we can't relate to the way that she handles loss. After all, characters losing those close to them - and how they choose to deal with it - is arguably one of the biggest storytelling components of the Arrowverse. Nearly every costumed character in the Arrowverse, in one way or another, is motivated by the dark moments of their past, and was given a set of circumstances that allowed them to rise above it and be a hero.
Just because Laurel's circumstances were different, just because she essentially fell victim to the Joker's "one bad day" principle, doesn't mean she's exempt from that.
And you know how we know that? Because of Earth-1 Laurel.
A lot can be said (as in, too much to write here) about the cards that Earth-1 Laurel was dealt over her Arrow tenure, and how some of the show's fans chose to respond to that. But Earth-1 Laurel rose up through a hell of lot, becoming a hero both in response to her latest bout of grief, and as a sort of response to the world around her.
Sure, the minutia of her and Earth-2 Laurel's lives might be different, but the sentiment is still the same. So while Black Siren hasn't had a perfect record over her Arrow tenure. But if she were to sit down and have a conversation with Earth-1 Laurel, odds are that Earth-1 Laurel would see the good in her, and would want to help her let her guard down and try to see the good in the world around her.
Redemption for Black Siren would not only hammer home one of the messages of this season (and of Arrow's entire tenure), but it would serve as justice for those who were badly burned by Earth-1 Laurel's death. And sure, we might not know what Laurel's redemption would ultimately look like, whether it's having her become a part of Team Arrow, having her go off and be a hero in another city, or having her join Legends of Tomorrow.But getting Laurel to that point would be a step in the right direction regardless.
Arrow airs Thursdays at 9/8c on The CW.
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/03/01/arrow-season-6-black-siren-redemption-laurel-lance/
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And since he's also shown that he's willing to give up Oliver, why do Dinah and Curtis trust him enough to not only work with him but also to declare how much they love working with people they can trust? Why does it seem like they've forgotten about that fact? Why do they think that he'd never turn them in too?
Somebody should ask Echo or Juliana that question. I would like to know how they are trying to make sense of the ridiculous script.
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Arrow (6x12): 0.8 in A18-49 and 2.135 million viewers
Supergirl (3x12): 1.0 in A18-49 and 3.322 million viewers
The Flash (4x12): 1.7 in A18-49 and 4.431 million viewers
Riverdale (2x12): 1.0 in A18-49 and 2.395 million viewers
Black Lightning (1x03): 1.4 in A18-49 and 3.766 million viewers
Supernatural (13x12): 1.0 in A18-49 and 2.628 million viewers
Jane The Virgin (4x09): 0.6 in A18-49 and 1.277 million viewers
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Good god, this show needs to remove all traces of Black Canary. Period. It doesn't matter how often they try - they somehow manage to do worse with each new version.
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9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:
Then they realized their mistake, brought Sara back into the universe and killed off LL. Why on Earth would they go through that again?
And after they killed off LL, they brought back another version of her and made her a series regular. There's no rhyme or reason to their decision-making, which is why I have stopped trying to make sense of it eons ago.
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3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:
Why would they put Dinah front and center for most of the season and then replace her with BS, who hasn't even interacted with any of the other regulars except Lance and Dinah?
No idea, but they did it with Sara as well, so I wouldn't put anything past them.
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I really hate thinking this, but it feels like the writers are deliberately sabotaging the Dinah character to force Black Siren into her place. The writing is just too ridiculous to be believed.
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You know a writing staff is beyond saving when they have made their entire supporting cast unwatchable. I can't say that I have ever cared for Rene, Dinah, Curtis or Black Siren because they never had much of a character to begin with, but with the exception of Curtis, I honestly didn't mind them and was willing to give them a chance. However, the writing for these characters throughout the ongoing "Civil War" (LOL) storyline is beyond obnoxious and what's worse, the insanity of a redemption arc for Black Siren is also dragging Quentin and Thea into the mud right next to them. But - I guess this is what inevitably happens when a show runs on a shitty network that never seems to cancel anything. Sooner or later, the producers and writers go onto autopilot and just churn out script after script as part of a money grab. Quality dialogue, continuity, characterization, actions and motivations that actually make sense? Who would ever care about that?
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Arrow (6x11): 0.8 in A18-49 and 2.335 million viewers
Supergirl (3x11): 1.0 in A18-49 and 3.208 million viewers
The Flash (4x11): 1.4 in A18-49 and 3.811 million viewers
Riverdale (2x11): 1.0 in A18-49 and 2.538 million viewers
Black Lightning (1x02): 1.3 in A18-49 and 3.484 million viewers
Supernatural (13x11): 1.1 in A18-49 and 3.029 million viewers
Jane The Virgin (4x08): 0.6 in A18-49 and 1.391 million viewers
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Meh, all characters on Arrow are hypocrites because the stupid writers can't write anything else.
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Arrow (6x10): 0.9 in A18-49 and 2.388 million viewers.
Supergirl (3x10): 1.0 in A18-49 and 3.412 million viewers.
The Flash (4x10): 1.5 in A18-49 and 4.055 million viewers.
Riverdale (2x10): 1.0 in A18-49 and 2.586 million viewers.
Black Lightning (1x01): 3.629 million viewers (A18-49 unknown).
Supernatural (13x10): 1.0 in A18-49 (total viewership unknown)
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I just found this opinion piece:
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What is it with the salmon ladder obsession of these actresses? If I remember correctly, KC always wanted to do it, too, and even claimed that she can but for whatever reason, the show never let her. IMO, the ladies should be more concerned with getting proper writing for their characters - like maybe asking the writers/producers if they could write more than one emotional beat (in Dinah's case it's anger) for their characters in any given script.
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Unrounded preliminaries from SpottedRatings.com:
QuoteSupernatural ... 0.553
Arrow ... 0.402 -
19 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:
Thea: "Black Siren killed Vince." BS: "I like killing." Lance: "You can still be good maybe!"
I DON'T GET IT. PB deserves better.
IMO, there's only one satisfying conclusion to this BS/Lance nonsense and that is for BS to kill him in cold blood.
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Superpyroman has spoiled episode 13 in great detail on Reddit:
QuoteTL'DR: spoiler: Cayden is captured. Dragon kills Cayden.
Scene starts with Oliver and Diggle storming Cayden's hideout. Cayden knows
"We almost have proof that I didn't kill your son!"
Cayden doesn't believe them
Cayden will detonate a bomb at midnight as justice for his son
There's only 4 hours left
Felicity and Alena are fixing a footage? The footage of Oliver killing Cayden's son
Cayden wants his team to leave before the bomb goes off and the ransom will be split among
them. Promises to give some safe passage out of the city
Flashback to Cayden in Helix 16 months ago
He's hacking some black market thingy
Alena is a new recruit. She appears to be a fan of Cayden
His son, Owen is a college basketball player
Cayden missed the game. He is also divorced(?)
Cayden promises to be in the finals tomorrow night
Mayor's office or precint (not sure what) in panic
Oliver thinks the bunker is the only place that could survive the blast
Is he implying that he'd bring the citizens there?
Dragon thinks Cayden doesn't want them to leave because the said safe passage hasn't arrive
yet. BS agrees
Dinah is aggressively hunting for BS. She wants to murder BS. She doesn't care about the
bomb and the city
Video footage was decrypted or whatever you call it
Cayden's son was killed by some Carl Iskoff/Iskov whatever. An assasin who doesn't use a
bow but is using one in the footage. They theorized that maybe it was by request to frame
Oliver.
The assassin was assassinated after killing Owen lul
Team found Cayden. He's far away from the city
Oliver: "I have an idea"
Flash drops off Oliver and Diggle in front of Cayden's car
They show Cayden the actual footage of Owen's murder
Cayden says that it has the same tech that was used to frame Oliver as Green Arrow in
S06E01
Guy who uses that tech appears to be someone inside Cayden's team
Cayden orders Oliver and Diggle to find Dragon, BS and Anatoly
Felicity and Alena can't track them. Oliver agrees that they need the newbies help
BS is packing up, She has a picture with Sonuvabich. Or is this E-1 Laurel?
Dinah arrives. Cat (Canary? lol) fight ensues
Sonuvabich arrives. Dinah blasted him
Oliver arrives capturing both BS and Dinah
Team found Dragon's location
Flashback
Cayden's about to head out to see his son's game
Alena stops her because she knows that ARGUS has Cayden's scent and it's not a good idea to
go outside
Cayden still goes
Curtis and Rene caught Dragon wat
BS is handcuffed to the wall inside the Helix base. Katie Cassidy is hot yo
Sonuvabich doesn't want Dinah to kill BS. Didn't work. She'll kill BS after saving the city
Felicity and friends found Anatoly
Oliver apprehends him
They call Cayden. Cayden gave them an address
William listens in with a stolen earpiece
He goes to the meetup place wat
Oliver, Diggle, Dinah and Sonuvabich arrive with BS
William arrives too. Says he's scared he might lose Oliver like his mom on the island
Flashback
Cayden watches his son play in the finals
ARGUS guys arrives
Cayden pleads to watch the game first befre being taken in. Didn't work
Cayden surrenders peacefully
Some BS and Sonuvabich scenes. BS says she won't change like Vigilante. She says she likes
killing
Dragon, Anatoly, and newbies arrive
Cayden talks about his pain TL:DL
BS says she killed his son. Probably a bluff
Felicity and Alena detects some frequency spikes
Cayden's detonator is interfering with BS' collar
BS' colar breaks. Blasts off Cayden. Blasts off everyone.
She escapes. Dinah on pursuit
Anatoly overwhelms Curtis and Rene
Diggle and Dragon are on a fist fight
BS v Dinah part 2
Cayden is unconscious. William is trying to get Cayden's detonator. Cayden wakes up
Anatoly escapes. Dragon escapes
Dinah shot BS with Sonuvabich's gun
BS dies?
Oliver used Talk no Jutsu on Cayden and William
Oliver shot Cayden's hand. Detonator falls
Oliver and William are back in the bunker
Oliver promises to William that nothing will happen to him
Former team Cayden are now gone with the wind
Dinah thinks that they should find BS first
Newbies still won't join back team Arrow
Oliver visits Cayden in precint
Cayden cooperated with the police. He thinks his son would be ashamed of him for what he's
done. He also wants to visit his son's grave
Flashback
An ARGUS agent told Cayden that his son was murdered last night
BS wakes up in a car. Sonuvabich saved her
Sonuvabich still believes there is piece of Laurel left in her
CCTV in precint shuts down
Dragon enters the precint
Some of Dragon's line: Maybe non-verbatim
"I saw this playing out a lot of ways but I wasn't expecting this"
"You didn't really know anything, did you?
"This city.. It's prime for a takeover"
"Why destroy this city when you can take it over?"
The new police captain and a few other city officials are now in Dragon's payroll
He said something about Arclight helping in thinning the herd
Dragon stabs Cayden in the neck with a knife that looks like a Kunai or maybe a short knife
Cayden dies
"Tell your boy I said hello"
END--
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4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:
Dinah/Vincent flashbacks? Yeah, he's totally going to die.
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Has this been posted yet:
QuoteQuestion: I need some scoop onArrow‘s Curtis Holt/Mr. Terrific. Might Paul make a reappearance? —Stephanie
Ausiello: “I definitely hope so. I really like Curtis and Paul’s relationship, there’s a lot of love there,” Echo Kellum answers. “But I do feel like Curtis needs to ‘play the field’ in a different sense right now — to kind of do his own thing and find out where he needs to be in life. He’s dealing with too many breakups recently! I definitely want to see him out there making strides in his own world, not necessarily needing someone else.”http://tvline.com/2018/01/31/this-is-us-super-bowl-episode-boston-philadelphia-markets-start-time/
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Supergirl has been doing really well since the midseason break. It's too bad that the CW is killing all of it's momentum with the fucked up scheduling.
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I'm sorry for the double post, but I just saw this on another forum and wanted to share:
QuoteWell normally I wouldn't be the one spoiling this, especially since I gave up on Arrow when Laurel died but...here goes
*SPOILER ALERTS AHEAD*
Big rumor floating around is that they are talking of bringing back Ra's Al Ghul for another go around. People are speculating this based off of reports of Nyssa coming back for more guest star appearances and the fact that Talia is indeed still out there.
Big talk is Nyssa is coming to town to warn Oliver's team about her sister reviving daddy for a round two. And that this current Crime Syndicate is merely a ploy to distract and weaken Oliver. -
6 hours ago, lemotomato said:
If Lance is trying to plead BS's case to Dinah after she has to watch BS murder her boyfriend, there's no redeeming Lance's character for me. He'd have to be delusional to still hang on to that hope.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Quentin should have died in season 4. His character has been going round in circles with his endless dead daughter drama since the pilot episode. At this point, his character has become thoroughly unwatchable to me.
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1 hour ago, Featherhat said:
Is JH the daughter of a WB exec?
JH's dad used to be Senior Vice President of International Content and Creative Affairs for Warner Bros, but that was almost 20 years ago. I doubt that he still wields much influence there.
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3 hours ago, Soulfire said:
It truly amazes me how one show can fail one character in 4 different incarnations. Dinah looks completely unhinged in this trailer and it's already obvious that the Vigilante plot's nothing more than a rehash of Laurel's failed season 1 storyline with Oliver and the Hood. In some scenes, she'll be visibly turned on by her murderous ex-boyfriend while in others, she'll recoil from him in disgust. This is what the Arrow writers consider complex storytelling. Sadly, they do not have the necessarry writing skills to pull it off and Dinah will come across like a total shizo. Just another terrible writing choice for a character that's already walking on thin ice with a lot of people.
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11 hours ago, statsgirl said:
I'm okay with Oliver accepting that he needs more than just Diggle and Felicity, after all that's what s5 was about, But I'm damned if I know why he has to rely on someone who has betrayed him twice and two whiners one of whom is still keeping secret from them. Oliver deserves better than that.
I think I am having a brain freeze at the moment, but which secret are you referring to? The group knows about Vigilante by now, don't they?
Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"
in Arrow
· Edited by strikera0
I still think the writers have chosen to sabotage Rene, Dinah and Curtis on purpose because they're planning to get rid of them at the end of the season. In light of the ever-shrinking ratings, the show will probably have to contend with further budget cuts and the best way to cut the budget is to trim the cast, so...