Drapers4thWife

When I read that NY Times interview with Roseanne last week, I had a feeling something like this was brewing. For all the talk that the reboot was Sara Gilbert or Whitney Cummings' baby (and it may have been at first) I got the impression from the interview that Roseanne was going to do what she did with the original: get drunk on power and attention, convince herself that it's All About Her, and wrest control of the show away because Roseanne knows best. Then Whitney Cummings announced she was quitting with a b.s. excuse (as someone else noted, you don't quit your job as showrunner on a No. 1 sitcom after one tiny season because of a self created standup schedule). Roseanne erroneously believed that this is still the 90's and she still had the power to get away with this crap. She had made similar horrible comments - including similar racist comments - on Twitter before but they were scrubbed clean. She also supposedly "quit Twitter" a bunch of times before (and then never ends up deleting her account). The fact that people like Wanda Sykes and the actress who played Harris were quick to quit I think it what probably caused ABC to pull the trigger now.

I know ER was somewhat notorious for dropping plotlines, but the strangest was probably the whole "angel of mercy" accusations against Elizabeth. It took up so much time for what seemed like 1,000 episodes only to be completely forgotten.

Since later Carter's mom couldn't bother to return home to Chicago for three weeks after he was nearly stabbed to death, I couldn't care less if his absence ruined her plans for a graduation party.

That's why I'm suspicious Sobriki should have been eligible for conditional release. He deliberately went and stole a butcher knife from the doctors' lounge and hid it somewhere on his person - which shows thought and deliberate planning - and he was cognizant enough to lie when Lucy caught him there (claiming he was just looking for coffee). Then he stood in silent wait for Carter (or somebody) rather than fleeing after stabbing Lucy (which would have been easy with the chaos of the party). He didn't suddenly snap and just start attacking Lucy or whoever was nearby.

I think he was waiting for Carter. When Carter was helping Luka with the kid's spinal tap in a later episode, he had a flashback to doing the spinal tap on Sobriki (which was traumatic, because Sobriki woke up from sedation halfway through). Carter than told the hospital shrink that he thought Sobriki interpreted the spinal tap, in his schizophrenic mind, as them stabbing him. This is borne out in "All in the Family" when Sobriki is being treated after being hit by the car (after fleeing the hospital after the stabbing) and responds to Abby trying to give him Haldol with, "Don't stick me! They wouldn't stop sticking me!" and he later starts yelling to his wife that Carter and Lucy were trying to steal his internal organs.

Romano losing his arm was genuinely shocking, I'll give them that. Him being killed by the helicopter later though was just laughable. Carter was written so bizarrely in Secrets & Lies - and didn't John Wells write it, even?? It didn't fit with his behavior at all before or since. Such a shitty episode for my favorite character. I don't remember enjoying Carter particularly in the original run (I think Greene was my favorite back then because I was a weird nerd as a teen) but far away he's my favorite this time around. Count me in as not liking Susan very much, including on rewatch, either in her first or second stint. Maybe it was Sherry Stringfield as an actress (she was never very impressive) but I didn't think Susan was a very good doctor. If I were to rank all the ER docs, I think Carter was the best, followed by Luka in second. Both IMO had the perfect balance of technical skill, compassion, bedside manner and knowledge as to when to bend the rules vs. when to pull back (something Doug lacked).

Okay, but Abby knew almost as much by that point...and she was cackling right along with Susan. That whole episode was annoying veering into disgusting. And - as I opined before - I think Susan was wildly out of character for that gross stunt. Later Susan and Early Susan basically only had Sherry Stringfield playing both versions in common. What the later writers did to the character was appalling. Yes, Abby was laughing but Susan was the one making the gross comments ("Hope she got a Christmas bonus!") AND the one who had just abruptly ditched an about to confess molestation victim in the previous episode (little girl who'd gained a bunch of weight after her mom married her stepfather). It was not a shining moment for Abby for sure but Susan drew my ire. It's interesting to go back and read some 2002 era comments debating about whether it was child abuse. Here's Heathen in the TWOP recap: Well, of course, there's no question now it IS child abuse. There's no getting around that. A 25 year old adult having any sexual contact, but especially full blown intercourse, with an 11 year old child is straight up rape. I (would hope) that wouldn't be a question now, regardless of genders. But I was bracing myself for an "atta boy" recounting of this tale when watching the episode again, and was surprised at how subtle/shamed Carter acted and the silence of the guys. Carter was not exactly one to share his problems easily and it was a sensitive issue, so that's one part of the episode that rings true. The fencing was beyond stupid for a whole host of reasons. First, the swords were in a props closet off a classroom (not a recreation area/gym) so they must've been used for English/drama class. There's no way they'd be sharp, nevermind Olympic level sharp. Second, two people with claimed fencing experience (Luka and Carter) would never do that without protection. Third, one of them is a stabbing victim with PTSD would never have done that without protection. Fourth, one of them is the doctor who TREATED said stabbing victim and would never have fenced with that victim without protection. So dumb. Re: Romano. Yeah, there were several incidents of him being nice and showing a heart, especially with Elizabeth. However as a gay woman myself, it's really hard to look past at his awful homophobia and misogyny. Probably the thing that has aged the worst was Romano's blatant sexual harassment in the early seasons. Jinx! We posted at the same time, starri, but you said it better. Romano's treatment of women was pretty vile and it's hard to imagine today any show attempting the "he's the character you love to hate!" with him. But anyway, Paul McCrane was always great as the character and able to play asshole Romano as well as the rarely redeemable moments.

I'm really glad they never followed through on the Lucy/Carter flirtation. Noah Wyle was right that the chemistry was more older brother/younger sister. I think their prickly relationship ended up being a big reason why the stabbing and Lucy's death had so much impact, as Carter's survivor's guilt ended up tied into his regrets about how he treated Lucy. I think it was also realistic that Carter wasn't that good at knowing how to handle his first student. The ER writers were never very good at not forcing every male and female character into a relationship when they really would have been better as friends. Abby and Luka both were a lot better in the time period when they were friends, after they broke up and before they got back together, then they were as a couple. I don't think Susan clicked with anyone really, including Mark. I'm the rare fan of Abby/Carter in theory, but not the way the writers handled it. First, it made no sense that Carter suddenly was afraid to act on his crush after Luka and Abby broke up. I could understand him not wanting to right after she became single because he was still concerned she had feelings for Luka, but really after months of Abby being single and expressed explicit interest in him it became ridiculous. Carter had never been shown to be gunshy when it came to relationships before. It was clearly the writers floundering at artificially keeping a will they/won't they thing with Carter and Abby going on AND a will they/won't they thing with Luka/Abby at the same time. (Oh another ridiculous thing was Carter and Lewis not having sex in the two months they were together, when both were characters who hit the sheets pretty quickly with previous partners). It would have been nice if the writers explored the similarities between Abby and Carter, it might've laid the solid foundation for a relationship. Despite the class differences, both Carter and Abby were caretaker types with absentee mothers, traumatic childhoods, addiction issues and even beloved brothers. There's a lot there that could've been explored. My partner got so mad when we watched the sexual harassment bottle episode where everyone acted like an asshole. I don't know why, but I was annoyed at Susan the most. I thought her needling Carter about how great his life had been because he was rich was kind of cruel considering I'm guessing she knew about the death of his brother (she sure volunteered crap about Carter's dad so she had some familiarity with his family). And her cackling at his revelation that he'd been molested as a kid was gross.

Upon rewatch, I really didn't dig the Mark/Doug friendship much. They didn't seem that close to me and were often at odds.

I've finally gotten to the Gamma death episodes, after reading the forum pages here debating Abby vs Carter's behavior during the whole thing. I think I see both points. I do think Abby's heart was in the right place - I think her comforting of Carter in the hallway was lovely, and I think she genuinely thought her brother would stay in the car during the funeral. However I think Carter was also right to feel abandoned by her in his time of need. This was the most important person in his life and he'd essentially been alone since he was a kid, and now here once again his parents have dropped the ball and he's left to do everything. What's important to me is that Carter really wanted Abby during this time (asking for her repeatedly) and asked for her help, but he wasn't her priority. I'm glad Carter realized it. What I think was particularly devastating for Carter is the way his relationship with Gamma changed after the stabbing. They weren't even on speaking terms when it happened but she was the (only?) relative who came to him in the hospital and he then moved in with her after his release. His scenes with her after that were some of my favorites. She was so sweet with him: making him soup and holding his hand during his bouts of insomnia, making him breakfast, trying to get him to see her doctor about his back, now supporting him in work as a doctor, etc. She went from being a kind of no-nonsense ice queen in the first few seasons to...well, a grandma! But in a way that you could still see her being a bosslady when it came to the foundation and her work, etc. It sucks, too, because despite having friends at County, I think Gamma and Benton were the only ones who were really there for Carter after the attack. Then Gamma herself got sick and grew to rely on Carter in turn, so I think the two were bonded in her last years in a much deeper and different way than they would have been had Carter not had his brush with death.

I was reading the recaps on Brilliant But Cancelled and really liked Heathen's description of Carter seeing his attacker, Paul Sobricki, again in the season 8 episode "Beyond Repair."

I'm currently on season 8 of my Hulu rewatch. It's very interesting to see how my opinions have changed since I was a teenager and watched the show as it originally aired. I remember having a George Clooney magazine cutout on my junior high Trapper Keeper! Doug was the best - but now as an adult I'm kinda over the "he doesn't play by the RULES!" cliche and found myself frustrated with how Doug was always going off half-cocked, damn the consequences. Doug and Carol were also a lot less awesome than I remembered. Peter/Elizabeth, who I remember finding bo-ring in the original run, I actually enjoyed this time around. She made Peter laugh! She really seemed to bring out a softer side that we rarely saw in Peter. Similarly I dug Abby/Carter because with him, Abby actually had fun! She laughed and they did goofy things together. With Luka it was just misery, misery, misery. Their pillow talk was even about his dead wife ("Was your wife pretty?") Also, I totally don't remember the brief subplot with Julie Delpy as the klepto wannabe nurse's aide who Luka "rescued" and started having sex with after two minutes of knowing her. Then she got pregnant. Luka, you dumb cluck. Speaking of Peter, I really enjoyed him this time around. As a kid I thought he was the ultimate killjoy but they did a great job showing him growing in small ways (like as a father) but keeping it true to his character. And of course, him and Carter are everything. Michael Michele though is completely charisma free in every thing I've ever seen her in, including ER. Carter, BTW, my little ray of sunshine! Far and away my favorite character this time around. It's going to be a struggle when I get to the Wyle-less seasons. Don't really care about his girlfriends. I'm here for Carter with Peter and GAMMA! I love Carter's relationship with his grandmother and we all know she's the #1 woman in his heart forever, right? Good. I couldn't wait and watched the clip on Youtube and saw when he told Abby Gamma died. So what if I cried? My favorite episode remains "All in the Family." The stabbing itself at the end of "Be Still My Heart" is the clearest memory I have from the original ER. I still remember the shock of the stabbing and him seeing Lucy - and then we had to wait a WEEK! Everyone else has already gone over why that episode where we see the team actually work on Carter and Lucy was the best. I won't repeat it, but I just finished the S8 episode "Beyond Repair" where the stabber comes back in the ER after falling on the ice and getting a minor head wound. We find out he's now medicated and on conditional release, working in an office and has a toddler with his wife. God, the scene where Carter recognizes his voice in the hallway is a gut punch (Abby tried unsuccessfully to get the guy moved and also to keep Carter away). The look on Carter's face when he saw the attacker with his family and the guy apologized to Carter, telling him he'd been sick was "okay now," was incredible. Carter's face was heartbreaking because he was simultaneously frozen and also you could tell he wanted to scream, "Well, Lucy's NOT OKAY and I'm NOT OKAY but I'm so glad you're really fucking okay and have moved on with your wonderful life!" Instead he just mumbles, "I'm glad you're okay" and goes to the bathroom to puke. It's even more heartbreaking because Carter is left with lifelong kidney problems and eventually has to have a kidney transplant because of the attack.

Actors like John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf were experienced actors when they were cast, if not yet famous. Of course they were partially cast because they chemistry reads with Roseanne and clicked, but that is no more Roseanne's credit than someone like Benedict Cumberbatch is responsible for Martin Freeman's career because they were the right combo in their chemistry read for Sherlock. Guest stars like Shelley Winters or Ned Beatty were legends in their own right (and some, like Beatty, ditched the show over Roseanne's behavior). The closest "discoveries" Roseanne made were Michael Fishman (an awful actor who has never done anything outside the show, but who Roseanne personally liked) and Johnny Galecki (who was already an experienced child actor she met on a TV movie and brought onto the show). And while I think The Big Bang Theory has its moments, I'd never argue Galecki is a great actor (he is lucky IMO). Roseanne always tried to take more credit for the show than she deserved, in that she portrayed herself as THE show. She consistently ignored, downplayed or denigrated the people who actually made the show work. Every series is a team effort, and Roseanne would not have been the series it was without Carsey & Werner and Matt Williams developing it, the producers and casting directors who found people like Metcalf & Goodman, the amazing set designers who created a lived in, realistic home, and most of all the excellent stable of writers. When Roseanne finally got total control over the series is when it crashed in quality. She drove off the talented writers until finally in the last season her teenage kids were literally left writing scripts. I think that's reflected in the fact that many of those writers and creators went on to create equally or more successful and varied projects (Home Improvement, Gilmore Girls, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, etc) but Roseanne has never had success after this series. She's had a failed talk show, a failed reality show, failed stunts (like running for president). Her other attempt at a sitcom was not picked up, despite the presence of John Goodman and a similar plot. Aside from guest spots on TV, she never went on to a significant movie or TV acting career. Without Roseanne, John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf have gone on to win Emmys, Tonys , Oscar nominations , star in classic films. With all the money and time in the world, Roseanne hasn't written great scripts, she hasn't been a producer or director, etc. Is she talented at playing Roseanne Conner and being creative with input when reigned in by other experienced and talented people? Yes and that's big, but she is not a genius wunderkind. Roseanne Barr is not like Lena Dunham or Donald Glover, people who created, developed, wrote, acted and directed their own series to their exact vision and specifications.

Unfortunately Roseanne the person seems determined to link Roseanne the show to Trump. In addition to the conspiracy theories, etc. She's been retweeting people's comments to her about the Conners being a "MAGA family" and has a "MAGA cheering section." She just wrote that in an upcoming episode her character has a conflict with her granddaughter Harris and "wait till you see how I handle her very liberal mother!" She also retreats Fox & friends segments about the show and teased a Sean Hannity interview. The question seems to be that, even if the show does not reflect Trump's values, what to do when Roseanne is acting as the public face of the show and making that link? It's very disappointing that Sara Gilbert and Wanda Sykes, who are both active on social media, have done nothing to push back or counter this. Especially as supposedly this is Sara's show, according to Roseanne.

Roseanne Barr has said she's not interested in Jerry or Andy so they're pretending like they never existed (which shows the level of care Roseanne has taken with the show). It's galling considering that Roseanne insisted on Jerry's existence in the first place because she was pregnant in real life (and already retconned the intended baby daughter into a son to mirror her real life) but it's particular galling because of what a huge deal having Andy was for Jackie's character. Not to mention that seeing Jackie dealing with an adult son, rather than just existing as Roseanne's sidekick, would be interesting.