Tuleh2
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Posts posted by Tuleh2
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The show was originally "EP's" show. EP was hired first, and for Shonda, the show was clearly about Meredith. But then Merder and McDreamy became the engine behind the show's breakout. (Not taking away from the others actors, the music, the clever writing or anything, but I don't really think you can dispute that. Merder were the "headline" in most of the mentions of the show.) And suddenly to the media (and the majority of fans), EP and PD were "co-leads." We've heard that that caused resentment with IW. But what about EP?
I think she was happy enough to go along with PD being perceived as "the male lead" for awhile. She was getting paid good money, the show was thriving, she had a life outside it, and she didn't have to sit through a million inane interviews, etc. And although that was not the way Shonda wanted it, she clearly exploited Merder to build her empire.
But with Scandal and HTGAWM, you saw what I think Shonda wanted for EP, and what EP maybe has wanted for herself. KW is clearly "the lead" in Scandal; it's THE OLIVIA SHOW: no one mentions it without talking about KW and she's credited with the lion's share of it's success (what's left after Shonda gets credited, anyway.) It will propel her career beyond Scandal. Same with VD on HTGAWM.
EP says she doesn't want to act after GA? Well, maybe. But I do think she'd like a little of the glory that KW and VD are getting for carrying their shows. And she was never going to get that while PD was around, no matter how lamely Derek was written. (I'd argue she was never going to get that while SO was around, either.) But Shonda finally has the power to make it happen, beyond the objections of ABC and PD. She's taken the show back, for Meredith and EP.
I still think EP leaves after S12 (or maybe S13), after a season where she gets a chance to taste the same kind of glory that KW and VD have.
But how do you generate the same buzz for a show that's so old? Hmmmm... Maybe through a splashy and controversial exit for PD?
Just a thought.
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That Caterina (Amelia) interview bothers me.
I remain convinced that Caterina becoming a regular was a signal of the beginning of the end for Derek. Derek was never an important enough character for that sibling-rivalry business to be sustainable. Only Meredith gets to have siblings working in the hospital (an apparently endless supply of them!) And how would they use two neurosurgeons?
Shonda brought her out of unemployment to replace PD. No wonder she's so fucking chirpy.
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Two theories: (i) someone told her to because comments like this should come from above her paygrade or (ii) she was absolutely being pasted on twitter like others and that's above her paygrade.... I guess (iii) both of the above, is possible.
It was kind of cute that she thought she could calm the storm.
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mimi melgaard @MimiMelgaard
There have been a lot of questions. I'll answer one. The cast/crew said what they wanted to say privately to p d it is not for public.
That was quick. She's deleted it.
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I don't expect Derek's death to be the catalyst of the end but for me, it'll probably be.
Yeah, I've watched my last episode. The next episode won't be a memorial to Derek. It will be: "Look what's happened to poor Meredith." And Amelia.
Ick.
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When else?
She got pregnant by Burke in the first season, had a miscarriage (ectopic pregnancy) in the 2nd. So she got pregnant by Owen despite having lost a fallopian tube (never mind being sure SHE NEVER WANTED KIDS.). Thin, huh?
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Also, I think the ONLY reason PD still has Merder supporters is because he made out like it was not his fault at all. They are all thinking poor Patrick, he got fired by Shonda RULER OF ALL THAT IS EVIL and then literally hit by a truck (just as George got run over by a bus). If this had come out differently, as in Patrick broke his contract because he wants to race full time. Then, i'm pretty sure all that support goes away.
Absolutely, Greysaddict. PD was trapped on this show. Not the worst problem in the world, I know. He certainly was appreciative of the success it brought him and handled the fans with grace. I think he held up his end of the bargain.
But I don't expect any actor to want to play the same role forever, even EP. No matter how much they're paid.
But what makes you think they didn't see this coming?A lot of the venom about his death seems to be directed at "the way it was done," and I still can't fathom that crappy episode. It has to be the worst one Shonda's ever written. Never mind the bad taste (death in a Porsche?), it was sloppy: full of plot holes and contrivances (the eppy thread on this board has 8 pages of them). GA has been pretty contrived lately, but could Shonda really have done such a bad job intentionally, i.e., to make it look like PD was being dissed/to generate sympathy for him? Maybe. (That's the conspiracy theory). But Shonda is pretty proud of her writing skills.
Whatever, I think it was a gift. I hope PD thinks so too. I'd like to see him do something else. YMMV.
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I imagine the same (but even more explosive) reaction to anything further Rhimes has to say on the matter.
True, pennbenn. I don't think there's anything she could say to fix this. But isn't it kind of ironic: Shonda's good friends with Judy Smith, the DC fixer (the model for Olivia Pope). Could they really not see this coming? (Ooops, now I'm about to head into conspiracy mode. I'll STOP. NOW.)
I'll just say that I'm pleased: If you had told me a month ago that PD could leave this show without the entire Merder fandom picking up pitchforks and threatening to boycott his future career, I wouldn't have believed it. What a gift for him.
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They're probably waiting to see the ratings.
I doubt the ratings will slide enough to cause her to have to talk about it. Ratings will be up next week, and probably won't tank beyond that.
But this episode was also a big, newsy "FAIL" with the critics. She was blasted by people who don't even watch GA anymore. She was THE WOMAN WHO COULD DO NO WRONG... and now she has. I think she will have to address it the next time she gives an interview, but I don't expect to see her anytime soon.
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I do believe that Patrick's ambivalence towards the show did influence SR (maybe not so much in ABC at the end) but I still don't understand how is it that they didn't see this backlash coming.
We've talked before about how PD has more face-to-face fan interaction than anyone else on the show (because of racing). You know who has the least? Shonda.
Tweets, yes; but actual face-to-face contact with people who watch her shows? Not so much. I think Twitter may have given her a distorted worldview. Her many followers exist for her self-promotion. Fan tweets are easy to ignore ("I make stuff up for living. Don't tweet me your craziness.") They're abstractions, like Neilsen numbers. Lots = good, never mind the message.
She spends most of her time in Shondaland, and when she leaves it she attends sophisticated functions, meets with journalists or gives speeches to people. She doesn't spend time with fans who gush at her about how much this or that character means to them.
I think that's why she got this so wrong. I'm sure a lot of people warned her against it (PD and ABC execs). I think she had to fight to do this, and that's why the season was such a mess, and why there was animosity with PD.
In the end she won; she maintained creative control over HER show... and then she let her fatigue and resentment write the episode.
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People pay to cover things up. That is how Hollywood works. Who knows what Shonda's reasoning is....maybe she got tired of working around him or maybe he is that diva jerk. There have been plenty of blinds and rumors for years, that he isn't a very good guy.
You can believe that if you want. It doesn't matter: Shonda had choices about how to write Derek out. She could have left him in DC. PD was around to film his death scene; he could have filmed another Derek exit. He could have disappeared into the kitchen to become a househusband and died offscreen.
Yes, the fans would always have missed Merder. But Shonda is taking a critical drubbing for delivering a messy, unnecessary and disrespectful (to the fans) episode.
ETA: Shonda has exploited the Merder fans for years. To try to act now like it doesn't matter (EP's tweet: 'what matters are the tragedies of real people') is bullshit.
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this to me confirms that ellen was asked to write that tweet.
I'll bet Shonda wrote it.
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But after seeing some of the over the top gnashing of teeth/pulling of hair responses that have been sent her way, I kind of don't blame her for gently putting a fictional character's death in perspective.
No one is making (non-joking) death threats. They're threatening to stop watching the show (and Shonda's other shows). And ABC can't have that.
They don't care whether we care about the real horrors in the world. They care that we keep tuning in.
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omg, what must have he done to deserve this.
At this point, everyone's letting the show's dysfunctional history write the story: 'Shonda killed a character, ergo the actor must have been difficult.'
And PD can afford to take some of the blame for that; he was clearly ambivalent about continuing with the show. But I think he's also had more interaction with the fans over the years, so he knew what kind of backlash awaited the person responsible for ending Merder. He didn't want to be the one blamed for THAT. And now he's free; so what if there are rumors about him being a "diva?"
But sooner or later, someone's going to go past that and ask: What on earth could PD have POSSIBLY done that would have led Shonda to kill Derek/destroy Merder FOREVER against her own desire/her own creative instinct? Diva antics? Wanting to go racing?
Seriously?
If PD did something that couldn't be forgiven (is there such a thing in Hollywood? and how could we not have heard about it?), just send Derek to DC, let the show move forward until Merder fans get used to his absence, then kill him offscreen. Shonda had choices.
So it just doesn't make sense unless this is what Shonda WANTED. And she's going to have to own up to that, eventually. No future interviewer will fail to ask her about it.
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I think Ellen legitimately had to back out on the taping, she WAS on location filming that entire day so I don't think there is any hidden agenda there.
If that's the case, then she got lucky. She was pulled from the track of a speeding train.
I think she probably agreed with Shonda about the decision to kill Derek (after all, she gets new material to play next season). In which case she miscalculated the feelings of fans just as Shonda did.
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I guess she was under pressure, or was asked to tell something
It certainly reads like something a dozen publicists and studio execs worked all weekend to create.
EW had the interview first, from before. It was already in print before EP was scheduled to go on Kimmel.
Yeah, you're right, Artsda. I don't recall hearing about EP being scheduled on JK until the rumors about Derek dying started (it was one of the things that contributed to it).
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I just remembered that ABC sent PD on the Ellen show back when Brooke Smith was fired. Here's what happened:
“ABC actually sent me over what I should respond,” Dempsey told an inquiring Ellen.
“So ABC’s response, this is [what] you should say – ‘Brooke Smith has been… We’ve had a great time working with her and that the conclusion of her has been orgasmic,’” Dempsey said jokingly. “I’m sorry, I’m dyslexic, ‘organic ending to the story line.’”
Sound familiar?
That must be why they had EP scheduled on Jimmy Kimmel... to do the same for PD's exit. Only she wouldn't or couldn't do it. So PD did it, with the EW reporter. (Sort of like how Derek narrated his own death?)
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According to Shonda, you can't be "the sun" and be fulfilled in your personal life.
She chose to kill Derek, and I'm sure she plans to show Meredith rebuilding her life without him. I think Shonda is saying, "Having a husband isn't necessary to have a fulfilling personal life."
She might have some trouble selling that message though, since she's spent 10 years milking Merder for ratings.
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From the looks of it, ABC let PD to have the good publicity and have GA deal with the storm (as it has before and is still standing) and see how it goes. I doubt ABC will get very involved here but surely when SR comes out in any interview and is asked, we will get a better insight.
Sooner or later, I expect Shonda to step up and own this. Even if the ratings stay up and the social media furor dies down, the critical reaction to the episode (that she let personal antagonism drive the storytelling, fans-be-damned) has to be answered.
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I mean no disrespect to Patrick, it seems like he was blindsided by this, but even the "unedited" EW article seems a little like damage control considering he still has the production deal with ABC.
It must be scary as hell to be the first person answering questions about this (without being able to tell the whole truth). What a trainwreck.
I'm sure PD's exit from his contract covered how he was to handle the PR, and he must be receiving some financial consideration from ABC in exchange for not saying, "I FUCKING TOLD HER THIS WAS A BAD IDEA!"
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I think that is when he found out that his character would be killed off, rather than just sent off to DC permanently.
I agree, I think Shonda had probably decided/communicated that she wanted to kill Derek in the fall, but then had to spend months fighting with PD and ABC execs over it. Not fighting over writing PD out, but doing it by killing Derek. (Once PD made the commitment to the WEC series, he can't have minded not being on the show.)
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Wasn't that he was going to "leave" soon and he disappeared for six episodes almost the week after? I thought that was what he was referring to but maybe I misunderstood.
That's what I originally thought. But if you think about it, it's actually quite wicked: PD said he'd be leaving quite soon (i.e., leaked a spoiler) so Shonda quickly sent Derek to DC (remember how rushed that fight with Mer was?), making what PD said true even though it's not what PD meant.
You've gotta hand it to Shonda: she really is a piece of work.
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It's easy to see egos at work on both sides:
Shonda could have expected PD to support her story decision because of everything she's done for him (gave him the job, etc). I'm sure she would have promised him a glorious, heroic death for Derek (the exact opposite of what he got last week).
PD could have expected that Derek would be allowed to live (even if offscreen) and return for the occasional fan-service Merder nookie and EP's eventual exit because of how important Merder (and the Merder fans) have always been to the show.
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To the point of destroy her own "first-born" show.
I doubt she did that, but there's no question she let her resentment get the best of her in last week's episode.
She's entitled to creative control (and not to be second-guessed by her bosses, perhaps?) but PD's entitled to argue for his character and his job.
The rest is junior high school.
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S11.E22: She's Leaving Home
in Grey's Anatomy
I won't watch the show anymore, but I knew I could count on you to fill me in, Lilit Marcus. I will stick around the board just for your recaps. "Ourobouros of awful..." Ha! As Cristina Yang would say: "Thank you for all you do."