Avaleigh
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Posts posted by Avaleigh
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I really can't see them including Quentyn. Even while reading ADwD I thought, "Well that was all completely pointless!" (once he died, that is). Given the cuts they've already made, I can't see him making it to screen.
He really only needs three scenes. I don't see how it's a waste of time. We could have a scene of him in the throne room explaining his purpose and the deal between the two families. Should take all of five, six minutes tops. He gets rejected, he's present during the scene where Dany rides Drogon, and then he's roasted for trying to claim a dragon for himself. It gives us a comparison to see that dragon taming isn't something that anyone can do, even if they do have Targaryen/Valyrian blood, it makes Dany riding Drogon more impressive, it provides conflict with Dorne who would have been her ally, and it causes some immediate chaos in Meereen. I'm just not seeing the drawbacks to including this character. Nor do I think it makes any sense whatsoever to blend his character in with Trystane's.
What would be the point in creating a character to fill the function of Quentyn when we could just use Quentyn? We don't have to spend a lot of time on him to make it happen.
Yeah, the Lannister were too busy destroying themselves. That infighting was brutal and a lot of it was because of Tywin and Cersei's irrational hatred for Tyrion.Seriously. It wasn't even really all about Tyrion although of course he factored in. So frustrtating that they learned positively nothing from the mistakes of the infighting of House Baratheon.
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Every way I turn it in my head I can't see any reason to cut Quentyn or Aegon. Quentyn would be so easy to include and we really wouldn't need him for more than two episodes. He's the only person from Westeros apart from Jorah and Barristan to get an impression of Dany, plus his death by dragon is a way to make Dany's presence in Westeros directly felt even though she isn't there yet. Dorne is going to be a big player next year and I like the idea of the Martells having their hands in so many pies. Take away Quentyn and Aegon though and we we're basically down to the Arianne tries to crown Myrcella and Myrcella's romance with Trystane with some sort of Jaime interlude to pad things out.. I'm definitely glad that Myrcella's story will be fleshed out but I think the Aegon/Arianne situation (assuming it happens) sounds like a sideplot worth keeping. I also see JonCon as a way the show might give us info about Rhaegar.
The main reason I want them to keep Aegon is for Varys. I'll be disappointed if show!Varys has been all about Dany all this time because I don't feel they've done much to indicate or set that up. Not in an obvious way but surely at least bookreaders should have picked up on something. Why would Varys harp on the dragons during a small council meeting so that Tywin Lannister might actually do something about them? What if Varys's warnings had lead to Tywin hiring a Faceless Man? I just haven't got the vibe that Varys has been helping Dany all this time as he supposedly has been for Aegon. Dany is a wildcard that nobody initially banked on not even Jorah or Illyrio. For Varys to have secretly been all about her all this time just doesn't work for me after four season of without so much as a hint.
One last thing regarding keeping Aegon. I'm not sure why but I also feel like for the show he could end up indirectly giving viewers clues into Jon Snow's parentage. Not for Jon Snow but so that there's some other way apart from the Reeds to get viewers thinking about the idea. It would of course mean changes for JonCon but I still think they could maybe have him drop some clues without him being any the wiser that he's actually doing so because of his own complicated feelings for Rhaegar. I can see Tyrion easily putting two and two together under the right circumstances.
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Clack I was trying to quote you and I accidentally liked the post. Not that I dislike it or anything lol...yay, for different opinions! I just disagree that GRRM's routine is currently working for him when I consider that he doesn't want the show to overtake him. If he needs to get the work out faster than he's done lately, then to me that suggests there needs to be some extra effort on the part of GRRM and I haven't seen anything to indicate that he's willing to make that effort.GRRM has been a professional writer for 43 years. I expect he knows what routines work for him.
I would have very different feelings about all of this if the show weren't a factor, but since it is a factor and GRRM himself would prefer it if he could keep ahead of the show, why wouldn't he want to consider alternatives where he has to compromise in terms of giving himself the "blocks of time" he requires?
Also, his slow pace doesn't IMO really explain the decline in writing for the last two books. How many times do we have to read about Tyrion shaking off the last few drops? Dany and Asha have nearly identical sex scenes at one point. Numerous unnecessary things pad the books out. Imagine if he'd subtracted half of the repeat phrases? Words are wind. We know, we know. He knows we know. Yet still he persists with the repetition. What does he think is the point of having an editor, I wonder?
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Anyway, he tells us he is working at as fast a pace as he is able. Do we know better?
I won't go so far as to say that I know better. Obviously I'm not in this man's life and I can basically only go by what he and other people connected with the book put out there. I do know that he's said time and again that he doesn't write while he's traveling and IMO if we're supposed to take him at his word, then that's at least a fairly good indicator as to how much time he hasn't spent writing. Considering that he's made it plain that he'd prefer it if the books didn't overtake him, he could have increased the time he spent writing by maybe putting off some other time consuming activity.
Do I think that he's working as fast as he is able? Not really. Not based on what he's had to say or what his editor has had to say. I think he's working as fast as he'd like to not as fast as he is able. Big difference IMO.
As far as 4-5 years being standard for a 1000 page book--maybe so, but I do think there are other factors to consider like knowing that he had a decent sized head start because of all of the material that was removed from ADWD. It's also not like he has to do massive research like David McCullough in addition to the actual writing.
I don't know, I feel like GRRM seems willing to consider damn near anything except of course maybe putting in a bit more time and work. It's like a person who acts surprised when they hear that diet and exercise can be helpful when it comes to weight loss. If he puts in more time writing, the book might even be out on time.
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Also, regarding the actor/pizza boy comparisons- --
I have to agree that there's something unprofessional about somebody who thinks that they're above needing things like deadlines and basic discipline in order to keep them at least somewhat structured.
People do have to wait for pizza that's just obviously a lot easier to estimate when it comes to timing. I don't think the idea is that fans are objecting to having a wait. It's the idea of a wait with no end in sight on top of the knowledge that the ending will be put out there now via the show whether GRRM is finished or not. Since GRRM acknowledges that he's aware of how many fans of the books and show would prefer to read the books first it isn't like he doesn't understand the situation. He knows it's time to get cracking and how does he respond? Instead of maybe putting in a bit more time he'd rather complain about the show moving too fast. He wants to brainstorm other ways people can (and in his opinion should) bend over backwards for him in order to buy him more time so that he can enjoy himself traveling, attending cons, watching football, etc. He wants to tell people to fuck off because people think his lack of progress could very much be an indication that he won't finish on time. I don't know, he's the one who sounds a little entitled and immature if you ask me.
Using your actor example , it's not like Robert Redford was going around for years telling people that he's working on a sequel to The Sting and then kept delaying the release of the film because his style of acting requires numerous takes to the point where production continues to be delayed.
Warren Beatty otoh actually did sort of pull this bullshit on the last film he's done to date Town and Country. Multiple accounts have it that Beatty's ego was a big reason for the financial disaster that film turned out to be. Numerous rewriting was demanded, an excessive amount of takes even for minor scenes, a shooting schedule that rapidly became bloated , and a lead that most everyone involved felt they couldn't say no to even though his demands made production further delayed and more difficult than they needed to be. Consequently, the romantic comedy was a box office disaster and wasn't released until 2001 even though the bulk of principle photography took place in 1998. Warren Beatty hasn't done a film since and while he definitely could, there's no doubt that the T&C disaster tainted him in terms of him being unlikely to ever have that sort of control over a movie ever again.
I just feel like there are lessons to be learned from seeing situations where a person simply isn't told the word no enough. If people had been a bit more firm with GRRM years ago maybe the lack of editing in AFFC and ADWD wouldn't have been so glaring.
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I can understand being chilled by the cold attitude of 'give me what I want from you before you die because you're so obviously going to go relatively soon given factors x, y, and z.' I agree that it's a tasteless attitude but it's not an attitude that I feel has been expressed here.
My main problem with GRRM is that I don't feel like he takes responsibility for the role he played in developing a fair amount of frustration for the fans who* have* waited patiently for the books. I feel especially sympathetic to those who have been into the stories since the 90s. I only first read the series back in 2009 so I only had a two year wait for ADWD. When I first started discussing the series online (at IMDB of all places only back in '09/'10 when there really was a surprising amount of intelligent conversation--no, there really was) I didn't really understand why certain fans seemed to be so impatient. But then I read about the promises for AFFC and ADWD and I felt like I could better understand the frustrations that certain fans have especially when I throw GRRM's unhelpful attitude into the equation.
I consistently get the vibe of a guy who is saying "Don't question me! Why must people question me?!" Whether he's ignoring his editor or his fans, or D&D, I feel like he thinks people should increasingly wallow in denial as he's doing when it comes to shit like the show moving past the books. He seems like he has absolutely no qualms about disappointing the people who would actually be willing to stop watching the series and still wait for him to finish whenever he finishes. I fully admit to not being one of those fans, but there's still something irritating to me about him not even caring about the fans who would be willing to do it his way even if it were to mean missing out on the show in real time and all the discussion that would come with it. It ultimately feels like a lack of respect for the people who have enjoyed his work enough to spend time and money on it.
I also think GRRM needs to get real if he seriously thinks his readers don't deserve a conclusion within a reasonable time frame. No one is asking him to be a wizard. Readers aren't asking for the impossible. People just want a conclusion to a story he started more than twenty years ago. He even had a head start on TWoW because of the material that was cut from ADWD. He agreed to the show, he knew the writing was on the wall years ago about all of this but woe betide the fan who actually suggests that maybe he should try to be a bit more disciplined.
I completely understand the man wanting to enjoy his success. IMO though he can only coast on the success for so long before he'll need to remind people that he still has it in him to finish the story in an exciting and satisfactory way. I feel like he thinks he's paid all of his dues and should just be able to coast and continue enjoying his success without also fulfilling the promises that he's made to his readership in terms of completing the books. As the reader, I'm not the one who told him to go around promising that he would finish the story in 3, 7 or however many books. That's on him.
The continuous delays make me inclined to agree with those who think it's a combination of not knowing how to end the story, the lacklustre reception of the last two books, and maybe even some level of not wanting it to be over. Whatever it is that's going on I feel like it's a lot more than GRRM being overwhelmed with too many other projects. (Not that the side projects are helping just that I don't think they're the primary cause for the delay.) IMO it comes down to priorities and I don't think ASOIAF is a top priority for him. And just so I'm clear, I'm not saying it should be *the* top priority just that since writing is his career that it should at least be a priority and I'm not sure it feels like that so much as an obligation that's getting in the way of his good time.
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True Blood would really have to fuck up the series finale for me to think it's worse than the shitshow of a final season that was Dexter. Easily the worst finale of a show that used to be good that I've ever seen.
At least this episode basically gave us confirmation that Sarah's death should be epic so at least I have that to look forward to. Imagine though if the showrunners do something stupid like having Violet kill her instead of Eric or Pam in some sort of misguided attempt to get viewers to like her. I'm assuming that's why they had her kill Maxine in this episode so now I'm wondering.
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I'd be more okay with the idea of Eric flashbacks if I didn't have the sinking suspicion that we're also going to see him being all mopey about poor, sweet, naked little Sylvie.
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Haha, Lilybee, I feel like you described almost everyone on the show with the possible exception of Joey.
Haha, Lilybee, I feel like you described almost everyone on the show with the possible exceptions of Joey and Heather.It may just be me, but I think that Bill is a selfish bastard. He wants what he wants when he wants it and doesn't seem to care who he hurts to get what he wants.
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Jason: I'm a modern man. I think and I feel. And I'm still a badass motherfucker of a warrior.
Lafayette: Okay, I did not see that shit coming.
Russell: I don't know if you got the subtext of the previous conversation, but THERE'S A NEW FUCKING AUTHORITY IN TOWN!
Sarah: Don't tell me you're a fan!
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Hardy har, I'm just going to pretend that you're doing the writing for Eric's character because what you've proposed makes a hell of a lot more sense than this bullshit they've thrown at us in the form of Sylvie and her thwarted art history ambitions.
It's hard to believe that multiple people on the writing staff apparently thought that this would come across as must see tv.
I was so sad for Eric when he lost Godric, and I had a very similar reaction to Nora's death. With Sylvie, I felt nothing during that Sophie's choice moment and I can't imagine that's what the writers would have been hoping for from viewers.
If the choices are Sookie, Sylvie, and Nora, Nora makes the most sense by a mile in terms of Eric just not being able to get over it. Sure they'd taken a break from each other's company but we're talking about a bond that lasted hundreds of years over a relationship that was probably two years tops with little indication that there was any depth to it apart from fucking and feeding. With Nora we saw bonds on multiple levels and from day one I understood that she was a VIP in his life. I mean, just come the hell on, show if you really expect me to believe that it makes any sort of sense to introduce a character like Sylvie when they could have gone in this direction with the already established character of Nora. YMMV ofcourse.
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My impression was that the guru is successful and would gain attention in terms of attracting followers like her and/or some level of media attention. I felt like it seemed typical Sarah Newlin--being the lady in the life of a high profile man. Steve, the governor, and now the guru.
At any rate, it certainly didn't take the Yakuza corporation very long to catch up with her and I feel like this might not have been the case if she'd been working in a boutique or something like that.
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Nicki's storyline during the third season is riveting (if totally unrealistic) but there was one moment that was so hard for me to understand no matter how I spin it in my head.
Pushing her father down the stairs and not hiding the fact that she did it so that all of the horrible choices and sacrifices she made were for nothing. She shouldn't have helped him in the first place but going with the idea that she's been brainwashed since birth, maybe we can give her a pass for getting involved in the first place. But then she hears Kathy's true and horrifying story, she sees that she was put in the joy book, she's hurt, she's in the perfect position to help put her father away and gain sympathy from the man she's crushing on, but she chooses to side with and help her father instead. So after all of that she pushes him down the stairs, doesn't hide the fact that she did it, then actually expects loyalty from him a couple of episodes later knowing perfectly well what sort of person he is.
I guess all of the contradictions are what made Nicki such a great character but this was a moment that wash hard for me to understand. Similarly, I never really understood all her waffling back and forth about having another baby and or having extra nights especially in the later seasons. Suddenly in the fourth season she wants one so much that she's willing to go to the Big Bad JJ's son's clinic?
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In maybe the fourth or fifth episode of the first season Alby throws it in Nicki's face that Bill married her only to get a loan from Roman and he acts surprised that she didn't know this. He goes on to call her collateral and Nicki looks hurt but doesn't address the matter again in that conversation.
It's hinted at again by Bill, Barb, and Roman at various points so it does seem that something of the sort took place. Nicki also asks Bill indirectly about whether or not he actually loved her when he married her and seems insecure about his answer and the implication is that she's thinking about how her father helped secure her marriage since they're at the compound during this scene and Roman's presence is especially felt. Bill claims that he loved her but I've always been fairly skeptical as to whether or not this is true.
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Kevan too seems to think that things might have worked out for the better had Rhaegar married Cersei instead of Elia to the point where he questions if Rhaegar would have even looked twice at Lyanna had Cersei been in the picture. I think Rhaegar had a better chance in bringing out the best in Cersei whereas Robert was the type of person who brought out the worst.
I don't feel that Jaime was a genuinely awful human being and he was able to see the good in Cersei. It's something that's often glossed over in discussions of her character but Cersei actually makes an effort in the books to present a courteous front. She's a phony bitch in public a lot of the time and this is most apparent in Tyrion, Sansa, and Jaime chapters. Tyrion and Jaime both notice when she's trying to be charming with this lord or that, Sansa notes that she feels safer around Joffrey if the queen is present, Tyrion wonders if this is the way she is with Jaime the night he poisons her and they're both in a good mood after hearing about Renly vs. Stannis. I mention all this because I think Cersei could have won Rhaegar over if she'd made the effort, and she seemed inclined to do so.
I know it's debatable but I think Jaime comes across as a man who is mostly good-ish. I find it hard to believe that Cersei was non-stop horrible about everything and everyone when they were together. Even in the last episode Jaime tells her that he didn't fight to come back and return to her only to find that she's become this [hateful woman]. He didn't say that last part but the implication is that he thinks that she's changed. He even said this in the first episode of this season. Jaime feels that Cersei has changed when it's fairly obvious that Jaime is the one who's gone through the most change. Cersei *has* changed since they were separated but I'm not sure that she's changed in the way Jaime is implying. Her attitude towards Tyrion for one. That isn't anything new. She referred to him as a little beast in the pilot and Jaime didn't even blink. When Brienne insulted Cersei though Jaime immediately insisted that she be courteous as far as Cersei is concerned.
Cersei showed a willingness in both the show and the books to want to play nice at the start of the marriage. If Rhaegar had been good to her as he was at first with Elia I'm certain the bastard issue likely wouldn't have come up. I'm uncertain as to whether or not she would have cut things off with Jaime though since she seems like she'd want to have her cake and eat it too. I definitely don't think that the affair with Jaime would have been as intense nor do I think either would have been interested in taking some of the risks they took as they did when Robert was her husband. Jaime at least seemed to respect Rhaegar and I don't think he ever respected Robert.
In fact, under the right circumstances, I could maybe even see Rhaegar being understanding/tolerant of Cersei and Jaime having a discreet relationship at some point provided Cersei and Rhaegar already had their own children.
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I assumed that they were after Sarah because she's, at least partially, responsible for Hep V getting spread to the world. That's enough for the Authority to come after her.
I guess I need to watch the episode again because I thought that the lead guy who came to the guru's house was supposed to be from the Yakuza (sp?) corporation. I'm sure they're pissed about the Hep V as well but I definitely think Sarah is going to have to pay for killing that woman so viciously. She can't even claim self defense, it was just all in all one of the worst human on human murders the show has ever shown us IMO so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't just about what Sarah has done to vampires but what she's done to humans as well.
DollEyes I agreewith your entire post.
I'm glad other people wondered why Sam shifted into an owl rather than a fly.
I loved Jason not feeling ashamed for being a "modern" man. Fuck off already, Violet.
Re Eric being over a 1,000 years old and of course he would have experienced other loves---that's fair enough but why, if this girl's death was so recent for him did he or Pam not at least mention her name at some point? I also agree that plausible or not I rolled my eyes that it took until the 1980s for Eric to find true love in the form of a French art history student. Seriously, could they come up with anything less interesting? I swear they didn't make it someone from longer ago because it would have cost more money to create the complete look of a period that is set back further.
So much word about his love for Nora being more believable and she came out of nowhere as well but the Godric connection worked for me.
I wonder if this is the last we'll be hearing of Sylvie? What's the point in us learning about this past relationship of Eric's? Is it simply to give him and Pam more depth? I was already convinced of their love and loyalty to each other.
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Just so I'm clear, the people in this episode who were after Sarah are there because she killed that woman in the vamp camp, right? So Sarah has two groups looking for her, the vampires and the people from the corporation.
Considering how many people are looking for her, why she wouldn't want to be lower profile is beyond me but then I guess she wouldn't be Sarah Newlin.
I'm wondering if Sookie's blood is going to factor in at all to making a cure for the virus.
I did enjoy the scenes with Lafayette and James. My only problem is that I don't really see this guy as the James who is with Jessica. The casting change really didn't do this story any favors IMO.
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I so wanted Maxine Fortenberry's heart to be pitch black. On a show like this they could have made that happen.
Hate watching is exactly the way to describe slogging through this mess. Sookie just continues to suck and be stupid and I'm inclined to agree that she helped kill Alcide.
I don't have anything against Alcide and I'll certainly miss looking at his body but I was completely underwhelmed with his death just as I was with Tara's . I can't put my finger on why these deaths are having no effect on me whatsoever because I'm pretty sure I would have been bummed and sad if these characters were killed a couple of seasons ago..
I don't even hate Bill and Sookie together but they are boring to me and if they're the end game, it's not a dealbreaker for me so much as I'm amazed that they think we should care.
The one damn character whose story I was looking forward to seeing this season was Eric's and I'm already disappointed with what they're doing. What is so special about Sylvie and why are we just now hearing about her? Eric came off almost foolish and immature in those scenes. He puts them in a deadly situation because he doesn't want to fuck indoors? This show is really too ridiculous.
A couple of small moments I liked:
I did LOL upon getting the info that Lettie Mae's booze of choice is apparently Captain Morgan.
Loved Pam and Nan in their 80s ensembles and liked the moment where they contemplate how they might have been friends.
Best moment--Eric wanting to hang on long enough to deal with the injustice of Sarah Fucking Newlin still being alive. The only thing that bothered me about that scene is that Pam made it seem like Jason let Sarah live as some kind of betrayal and I didn't see it that way and I say this as someone who is totallyfine with her character being taken out by whichever vamp gets to her first.
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Another curious detail about Cersei's thought process when she's wondering how she might get Margaery out of the picture--she notes IIRC that Loras and Margaery look even more alike than she and Jaime do and she finds this to be irritating for some reason. It's funny, it's like she wants to think that they're infected with the same sort of narcissism that she and Jaime have, that it's somehow normal for look alike siblings to want to fuck each other--but then at the same time she clearly resents the idea of the Tyrell siblings being as close or even closer than she and Jaime are and would be happy to see them punished for it even though it's the same sort of behavior that she finds to be acceptable from herself.
I agree too that her internal thoughts here are indications of her growing madness and instability. That being said, Taena also helped feed Cersei's delusions about various things including certain behavior from the Tyrells.
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I have to agree with those who feel the show never really quite recovered after Jimmy's death. It could have, it wasn't impossible by any means, but for me personally, I feel that seasons 1 and 2 of this show were the best by far. Season 3 worked for me at various points but it ultimately felt like there were a lot of missed opportunities to say nothing about perplexing character scenes and motivation.
I still don't understand why we had to watch Margaret and that doctor, I don't think Emily getting polio added anything to the story, indeed we hardly see her and spend more time with Teddy; Emily's polio in retrospect seems like a cheap way to gain instant sympathy for Margaret and her choices. They also didn't really need to make her give that land away.
Gyp Rosetti simply did not work I don't care if they gave that guy an Emmy. Agreed that he was an over the top cartoon of a character who sometimes made it a chore for me to keep my eyes and ears open. He was a pointless horror show and I am not uptight when it comes to violence. (Never had an issue with the Sopranos on that score.)
Gillian's brothel storyline could have been a lot more interesting too but it was mainly used to fulfill HBO's T&A quota rather than to tell interesting stories. Deadwood was a great example of a show that knew how to use brothel life to give great insight into its characters even characters like Alma who who didn't necessarily frequent those sorts of places.
Chalky IMO was the strongest part about the fourth season but I even find, myself feeling disappointed with choices they sometimes make for his character. The failed hit on Narcisse in particular was hard to swallow because Chalky is smarter than that from what we've seen. I also think they understand the strength of scenes with Chalky and his family but then they only give us a few of them, meanwhile we have to put up with things like Gillian going through heroin withdrawal, Eli's son adjusting to life at college, Nucky slapping around some woman in Florida and him getting slapped in return or vice versa, Margaret feeling guilty about something, too much of Billie Kent, etc.
The other problem to me is that the show has lost its best fictional characters. Jimmy, Owen, Richard, and Angela were all tough losses that the show couldn't quite fill IMO. The best of the remaining fictional characters are the Van Aldens, Chalky, and Gillian, and Gillian is so far outside of the story at this point it's hard to iimagine how they'll go about reintroducing her if they plan on doing so. Nucky is technically a fictional character but I'll be surprised if his end isn't all that similar to the real life Enoch Johnson.
We more or less know what will happen with characters like Capone, Luciano, Rothstein, Lansky, and Masseria so that's another reason I think it's important to keep the fictional characters as compelling as the the historical ones since that's often where we end up getting the surprises.
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Oh wow, what sort of person am I that I kind of laughed when the actor delivered Oberyn's Inigo Montoya line?
I don't know what to think about his comments about how he's Dorne. What about his father and elder sister? He mentions that Oberyn isn't the only Prince of Dorne and it's like Trystane is some next door neighbor Quentyn has forgotten about. I really hope they don't give him any facial hair. I think his youth should be emphasized.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that they're auditioning for Euron. So curious as to what that audition scene would be and what all would be included.
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I get the argument that TB was always kind of bad and was basically always a guilty pleasure, but at some point in each season I have a moment where I'm like, "and that's why I still put up with and occasionally even love ahis show." Stuff like "I love you...Jason Stackhouse." I can't quit this show even when it gives me an episode like this one.
I enjoyed the Eric and Jason scene and agree that it was the best part of the episode but isn't that a sad commentary even for this show. That being said I also don't think there's anything wrong with fans getting that sort of pointless pay off since this show is really just really just trying to be entertaining and campy at the end of the day.
I concur though that the last two episodes were terribly boring and I feel like the show is limping through this last season. I only really care what happens to Eric, Lafayette, Jessica, and Jason. I like Andy and Adalyn but I don't care that much. The rest I can't say that I really give a damn.
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I've never believed in Robert's love for Lyanna. My thoughts on this are similar to Barristan's
about Aerys and Joanna
- -I think Robert wanted Lyanna, I'm sure he even enjoyed her company, but I don't think his love for her had any more depth than some idealized crush that likely would have turned ugly if she spurned his advances or flipside, she returns them and then he goes back to being the sexually incontinent person we all know him to be.
Obviously this is my opinion and maybe I'm judging Robert harshly, but I can't think of anything from his behavior
in the books
that would lead me to believe he would have lived happily ever after as he so insists if he'd only had Lyanna by his side. I fully expect that he would have disrespected Lyanna too only it wouldn't have happened on day one as it did with Cersei. I think Robert remained immature and never experienced a romantic relationship where he had to give. He didn't even really have a relationship with Lyanna. I also firmly believe that
short of Lyanna literally slapping him with the truth and screaming it in his face that she loves and prefers Rhaegar
that he probably wouldn't have accepted it.
Another way I compare Robert and Jaime is how different they are in their desire to be loved. Cersei doesn't have too many insightful quotes in the series, but one quote where she is so absolutely dead on was when she told Sansa, I think, about Robert having
the disease of wanting to be loved and that Tyrion is infected with the same affliction.
I feel like Robert got pleasure out of superficial love and worship. He liked smiles and tourney applause and sycophantic laughter. He wouldn't sacrifice in order to earn someone's love, he expects it to be given and given en masse I might add. IMO Robert valued quantity over quality and I think this is apparent in his attitude towards many things in his life.
There's no way I can see Robert remaining silent about Aerys plans to blow up the city. Robert would want everyone to know that he'd saved their asses so that they'd love him for it. The love of a lover and brother wouldn't have been enough for Robert whereas Jaime could deal with being despised as long as he had the love of Cersei and IMO Tyrion. Jaime values quality over quantity in this sense I feel. Robert would never be able to understand how Jaime has been happy to practice sexual loyalty to one person his entire life. He doesn't even understand it of his friend Ned Wylla claims aside for a moment. I even think a man like Robert would be the type to assume that he has had the better sex life all his years as king simply because he has variety and that it would never actually occur to him that some of the best sex can happen between two people who have been sexually devoted to each other long term.
Ultimately, Robert enjoyed fighting and wouldn't have only needed the Rhaegar/Lyanna situation to get him to be okay with going to war. I'm not saying that a situation as inflammatory would necessarily have presented itself but that "love" of Lyanna wouldn't have been Robert's primary reason for fighting or continuing to fight. I just think that's what he tells himself to make himself feel all tragic, romantic, and heroic.
Gah, with the wonky spoiler tags, my apologies!
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Probably true and I can also see Sansa simply ignoring something that she might not have felt had a place in the world she'd created for herself in her head.
I do wonder if Sansa had remained at Winterfell for a couple more years if she still wouldn't have picked up on the idea of same sex attraction. I can't imagine for example that there weren't any similar hints given about some gay person or people living somewhere in the North--I mean, are we to believe that there aren't any quietly gay people living in Winterfell or at least in the North? Sansa was the type who would hear gossip and all that while she was with her friends. Eleven is still young but I'm inclined to believe that she could have picked up on this if she'd remained at home for a few more years. I'm thinking now of the conversation Olenna had with Tywin and again, I can't really see that if Sansa had continuing to live at Winterfell for the next couple of years or so that she wouldn't have eventually ended up hearing some type of comment or conversation that would lead her to put two and two together.
There are other things about her level of awareness that I would question. For example, it seems like a standard put down in Westerosi society to say that a man is behaving like a woman and if nothing else I feel like Sansa would have some level of understanding of the intolerance that would likely to be shown to anyone who displays any possible signs of SSA. These Northerners who basically think that they are as masculine as it gets--I feel a similar macho vibe from the IB--would Sansa really never have heard a woman or one of her father's bannermen or maybe a servant make some comment about men who are used as women, or men who aren't the marrying kind like her uncle Blackfish?
For some reason this makes me think about the conversation Sansa had with Robin in the show when he's asking her why Winterfell doesn't have a moon door and wonders what they do with all of the "bad" people or people they don't like. I found Sansa's response to be a little misleading. She actually says that they don't do anything with the "bad"people at Winterfell. Right afterwards she slightly amends this statement by saying that girls wouldn't have taken part in something like that, but the vibe that she's putting forth is that Winterfell wasn't a place where things like punishment and death sentences are handed out or that Winterfell didn't have it's own prisoners. I find that Winterfell is often idealized and presented as perfection and sometimes I just want to say, yeah, it's beautiful but don't forget about x, y, and z.
The Winds Of Winter: Book 6 Will Arrive...Someday
in A Song Of Ice And Fire
It wouldn't have made much of a difference but I have wondered for awhile now if GRRM was ever under the impression that the show would increase from 10 episodes to 12 or so after the success of the first season. While it would probably only have given him a year of extra time, I do think it's unfortunate that the showrunners couldn't see the sense in having 12 episode seasons. Why the insistance on starting each season in April? Would the wheels really come off of the wagon if people had to wait until June for a longer season? HBO is so not above milking a show. Just to be clear, I don't want them to do it now of course but do I think that seasons 1 and 2 especially should easily have been 12 episodes? Hell fucking yes! There was plenty of exciting material and now if anything it seems like they might end up stretching out on material they don't even have, just some rough idea of. Season 1 I understand because at the time they were taking a gamble but why not bump it up after such a successful debut? It happens all the time, shows that start off with a smaller number of episodes only to increase the order number for subsequent season. It works the other way around too but often that can be for a show that is on the decline. It's odd that a show as successful as GoT wouldn't have wanted some extra time to keep its viewers captive.
Oh well, too late now but if I'd been D&D I would have been keen on trying this for at least one season. Seasons 3 and 4 at 10 episodes a piece makes sense to me though. That was plenty.
Isn't that the truth. Although to be fair I get the sense that most of the people who go out of their way to spoil people often haven't even read the books. Not only that but people who are spoiler sensitive tend to be respectful. I've seen some of the other type too though, so I agree that it'll be nice for the tables to be turned on those types.
I am an addict when it comes to spoilers so even though all of the big moments that I'm looking forward to have basically already happened on the show, I think I might well be more excited for next season than I am for any other. I'm going to lose my mind during practically any Sansa/Alayne scene next year because almost all of it should be new. Bran too. It's going to feel like such a treat. I can't imagine if I'd been waiting since 2006 to see what Sansa and Littlefinger are up to.