RS3

Same! On the other hand, the line where Oliver says he's at peace while his dream of raising his children with his wife was dying with him made me angry enough as it is. If I remember right, the redacted bit is the moment Oliver says the world needs Barry and Sara. If MG knows people we'll get angry... I can't take it as a good sign 😅

Cherry picking information comes with every fandom. People will only hear what they want to hear if they had already made up their minds about something or someone. I only remember that particular bit of SA's con because it was a big deal when he said it. The hiatus between s4 and s5 was, by far, the worst the arrow fandom has ever been. It was a cesspool of negativity. Both sides were angry at the writers and even more angry at each other. So having that be confirmed by SA, well let's just say we were a little giddy. And petty. No, the writers didn't go in blind and they didn't make a last minute decision. The only ones who didn't know who was gonna be in the grave by the time 409 aired were BC stans (and the skeptics who didn't think they had the guts or the means to fire her). Execs lie to avoid big spoiler leaks and actors have to fall in line if they want to stay in their boss's good graces, which is exactly what happened with SA and the grave storyline.

I've seen it too. I remember he was sitting behind one of those large con tables. Someone was sitting on his left. It might be another guest or the moderator, I don't know. It was definitely after season 4, or after 4x19 aired. The question was something like "is it still true that you didn't know who was in the grave when you shot the episode". Stephen said no. There was some chatter in the room and they moved on to another question.

ah, phase 2 of the grieving process. The part after denial when reddit finds a scapegoat to hate on for 5 consecutive years because their fav character ain't coming back.

Let me pile on the funny. That whole thing started when the mods for DC's subreddit stopped being affiliated with Arrow's subreddit because there was too much negativity after/during season 4. Some fans took it as DCcomics, the company, disowning Arrow, the tv show. I have no opinion on another version of Felicity or Diggle happening in the future because it won't be the same characters, nor story, nor chemistry. They can exist. I'm not against it. Maybe I'll love them, maybe I won't but I won't go in with a preconceived idea of what they should be based on the first version. 99% of the time, Olicity & OTA's popularity didn't ride on the stellar writing but more on the portrayal, like @Featherhat pointed out. I'd be a hypocrite if I say I wouldn't compare both versions but if I don't like the new version, it's easy to stop. Hate watching is stupid.

I always found it hilarious how canon was weaponized by comic purists during fan wars while their own comics introduced thousands of different adaptations of namesake characters. It makes no sense, no matter how you look at it.

The Bones/Castle feud was hilarious and SO TAME compared to fandom wars today. Even the actors and producers chimed in. This is irrelevant to the discussion but your comment brought me back. 😄 This is such a great take that I'm mad I didn't think of this myself. Yeah, I could've seen it happening. Laurel breaking up with Oliver cause she can't handle the fact that William's existence will always be a reminder of Oliver's betrayal... *shudders* This storyline would have been more cut and dried than whatever they did with Oliver and Felicity's (and Thea's!!!) characterizations. Not better, but more on par with their writing. If they had dwelled more into Oliver's PTSD and Felicity's abandonment issues, and made it less about the plot, the break up could have held some emotional weight.

I watched 12 seasons of Bones and although the wait was ridiculously long before the main ship got together, I got as many seasons of build up as I got of them being a regular crime solving couple with marriage, kids and the whole shebang. I remember the moonlighting curse being mentioned a lot by the producers. In the end, they figured that the show kept getting renewed so might as well go for it. As long as the payoff is worth it, I don't mind waiting. It's the incessant break-ups that bother me the most. I ship olicity hard but when they broke up that 1 time, It was enough to annoy me. I wasn't sad, just annoyed. Everyone figured out it was a classic CW stalling tactic the moment they pulled the baby mama ultimatum. Beth is openly saying that it was stalling now that the show is over but you could tell execs weren't even believing in their justification for the break up back when s4-5 aired.

It's interesting how she had already made up her mind about these relationships after reading episode 2. I don't think she ever wavered from her headcanons even when the show went against them, cause I remember her saying it helps her portray the character better. In the end, Tommy died carrying a torch for a woman who didn't reciprocate but the same thing happened to Laurel with Oliver because of Katie. Ironic.

Yup. A lot of people forget how much Oliver hated the green arrow life and wanted it to end. It was taxing physically but mostly psychologically. The writers made him express so many times how much he wanted grab his family wanted to get away from it. Considering everything he's been through because of it, how could the audience not agree with him? It made total sense that he wanted his wife and children away from that life. Superheroes are meant to be the one in a million but if you don't find something that makes them relatable, like the love of family, then all you have is a robot soldier. A part of the audience *coughs*comicsfans *coughs* lose sight of character motivations just so they can enjoy "badass" superheroes/fighters. They didn't like it when he retired in season 3 even though he said that he needed to find himself as a person. They didn't like it when Felicity was the one who wanted to come back because they didn't understand why Oliver needed the break after ra's striped him of the one identity he let himself have. They didn't like it either when he said he wanted to give up the mantle during his trial and then he was thrown in prison for being GA. "While it seems likely Oliver Queen would have wanted to spare his daughter of the need to become a vigilante like him, it seems just as likely that his former allies would want to see Mia trained to handle herself in a fight." See this makes zero sense to me. He acknowledges one character motivation but puts it on equal ground with this theory that Mia would want to train just because. Like it makes sense that everyone would want the vigilante life. Um...no. No one would. No one had to sacrifice more than her father and according to Arrow writers, it doesn't even come with payoff.

Hehe this tells me everything I need to know about this guy's definition of a Strong Woman. Jokes aside, I thought the whole point of earth prime's reset was that there was no crime. Plus there's a difference between learning basic self defense moves, which we don't know that Mia didn't know, and getting extensive archery training and combat training.

I think it was deliberate, although there were a lot of moments where you couldn't tell. But he did an interview during mid season 5, maybe during the 100th ep cast party (can't remember) where he said Oliver was "at peace" but not happy because the only time Oliver was really happy was when he and Felicity were together. I also remember that, at one point, the Oliver criticism was so bad that he had to defend the writing by saying Oliver was meant to be written like he was lost and confused. I call it criticism because it wasn't baseless hate like the one you see for other characters... But his interview confirmed to me that they messed with his character growth just to make the season arc work.

Season 5 managed to make me hate Oliver to the point of apathy (and Oliver was always one of my favorites otherwise I wouldn't have kept watching the show). He frustrated me with so many OOC dumb choices until I stopped caring. I'm ashamed to admit that the episode where he got tortured was the first time that I warmed up to him that season. They wrote Oliver around Chase, not the other way around, so they had him revert back to his season 1 persona but more gullible. As for Chase, I can't speak for everyone but I didn't care about Prometheus as a villain until I saw Josh play the villain. I was way more invested in his performance than the writing. It's also the impression I got online. Plus he came on after the season of magic so everyone can look good in comparison.

I just checked a few and it seems like the source is google. Lol. However all of the numbers can come from different random sites so I wouldn't put too much stock into them. Idk how these things are calculated but I think (?) that net worth isn't the same as the actual paycheck.

The good news is, if they re-write the BDP a third time, they won't waste another episode of Arrow! That's the other DCTV shows' burden now. The only thing I ask for is to rescue William. The fact that they used him as the cliffhanger to the detriment of arrow fans getting closure still makes me mad. If the spinoff happens it won't happen I can see them making his kidnapping a season long mystery, or even half season, just so the execs can find out if the powerpuff girls are capable of carrying the show as a unit or if they have to go for plan B aka FTA (that should've been plan A).