AmandaUnbidden
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Posts posted by AmandaUnbidden
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5 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:Here is a video segment on some research on how babies react to "good" guys vs "bad" guys:
Two other articles-
1. Babies Prefer Good Samaritans -
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071121144949.htm
2. Babies Make Quick Judgments About Adults' Anger
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160321153933.htm
"Our research suggests that babies will do whatever they can to avoid being the target of anger," said lead author Betty Repacholi, an I-LABS faculty scientist. "At this young of an age, they have already worked out a way to stay safe. It's a smart, adaptive response."
In one of the studies, published in the March issue of Developmental Psychology, Repacholi and co-authors wanted to see how exposing babies to an unfamiliar adult's anger toward another adult would affect the babies' behavior in a new situation. Do the babies assume that the initial negative encounters would happen again?
"Our research shows that babies are carefully paying attention to the emotional reactions of adults," said co-author Andrew Meltzoff, co-director of I-LABS.
"Babies make snap judgments as to whether an adult is anger-prone. They pigeon-hole adults more quickly than we thought," added Meltzoff, who holds the Job and Gertrud Tamaki Endowed Chair at UW.
I’ve seen this research before too. Very interesting stuff! Also proved we are inherently bias to those “like” us. Makes me think of teen mom 2 and Jenelle and Jace’s reactions to Jenelle and Barb. I think Jace definitely looks toward and prefers Barb although I have seen him crying at the door for Jenelle too when he was a baby. He may not have been able to differentiate between who was in the right or wrong between the two because of all the anger and yelling from both sides. Just terrible to think about what these kind of environments do to babies as they grow up. Definitely some long term damage to the baby if they constantly see it.
Now to get back to the topic of this show. Danae is definitely way out of line and is being abusive towards Brianna even if he never actually touched her. She needs to get and stay far away from him. She need some counseling to help her see the red flags and to completely remove herself from him. Also, the temper tantrums and emotional abuse he displays has nothing to do with him being a trans boy. Yes transgender people are going through unimaginable mental pain trying to deal with their dysphoria but that does not make all of them act like him. His being a transgender person and his abusive tactics are completely separate things. I feel Danae still would’ve been an abusive asshole even if he never experienced gender dysphoria. It does make it even more scary that he is acting like this before even starting testosterone. He is definitely in no state to start that kind of treatment. Anyway, pleasantly surprised Brianna quietly and calmly left that shit show and appears to not be looking back. I hope she’s able to continue to completely stay away.
As for Stephan, don’t even get me started! I think everything has already been said but I still have to rant. Kayla’s mother should have called the cops immediately and got him out of her house and a restraining order against him. I don’t care if this is where his child is. He’ll have to see him at a neutral location. He should’ve thought about that before he stole money from her and then preceded to unleash a violent outburst on her and her daughter in front of said child! I’m also wondering what happened to the aunt that set him straight at the baby shower. Of course, it’s not her fault he turned out this way. It just seems like he has some really good family members that have tried to teach him right from wrong. His behavior is not just inexcusable but scary and abusive. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already hit Kayla either. If he hasn’t yet, he will. It’s only a matter of time. Abuse always escalates.
One reason I hate these teen mom shows is that they film all of these abusive situations but do nothing to try to help the girls being abused. They even placate them and allow them to rationalize it all like how Kayla made all those excuses for him on the After show and the stupid hosts (looking at you specifically Nessa) just go along with it and act like this is all normal behavior. Like this happens in all homes. No! This is an abusive situation, and Kayla needs to be met with appalled looks at how she just glosses over it all. This is not funny! It’s not some situation you joke about later. Someone is going to get hurt and badly. Not to mention the long term problems abuse will have on the victim as well as the child that has to witness it. This show and its producers need a special place in hell reserved for them for not only serving up domestic violence and child abuse/neglect as entertainment but profiting off it as well. Makes me sick. I think it’s time I stopped contributing to their ratings and stop watching the shows.
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On 5/10/2018 at 11:58 AM, Pachengala said:
I'm having exactly the opposite experience. The Commander is so repugnant and Fiennes plays him so well that he (Fiennes) now turns my stomach even out of character.
Exactly. Same.
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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:
Nazi Germany as well. We are seeing it right now in this country, and obviously the "do unto others" part is being ignored, and the "love thy neighbor as thy self" as well, as many bible and Jesus verses about the poor, the sick, the hungry.
It's not far-fetched at all.
Yeah I don’t think I explained myself well. I was trying not to make a blanket statement that all Christians, or really any religious people for that matter, are dangerous or have dangerous ideas just because they adhere to a religion. I think the problem really comes in when people are taught not to question God or their preacher or their bible etc but to just blindly believe. That’s where the danger comes in. Turning a blind eye, ignoring your own gut instincts that something is amiss, stamping down any questions or doubts you may have about something because you believe you’ll go to hell, be damned, etc.
That’s one reason Evangelical Christians like Mike Pence and people like the Duggars are so scary. I could definitely see people like them creating a world like Gilead, no question. They’d love it! And the fact that these people have worked so hard to find places in government makes them all the more scary. One thing that makes this show and the book so much scarier and prevalent to the times we are living in now.
So alll that to say, I think we’re on the same page, I just worded some things poorly before. I definitely see what you guys are saying and agree with you 100%.
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Oh yeah I definitely think they bonded over being the most disliked. I just think Jenelle and Brianna are both ratchet enough to throw down on TV. Or actually it would probably be Jenelle and either Brittany or Roxanne throwing down. I forgot. Briana doesn’t fight any of her own battles. Lol Actually no fighting will probably occur just a lot of lunging at each other as security holds them back. Maybe Roxanne will get in a well placed blow to Jenelle’s head with her flip flop. We can always hope anyway.?
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39 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:
Agreed with all you just said and it's funny, bc while I like Chelsea, too, I think that, of all the TM2 girls, she is the least resilient. It took her forevvvver to move on from Adam, whereas the other girls were able to move on a lot more quickly. In that way, I almost wonder if her stable upbringing hurt her, like these other girls were used to chaos and turmoil and instability, that's all they really know, so they've just learned to adapt and roll with it and keep going. Due to her stable upbringing, I don't think Chelsea was used to that kind of instability that came along w/Adam and I think it really fucked w/her head for a while and she wasn't able to move on, it took her a long time to bounce back from it. Once she's got stability, she thrives, but in the face of chaos and instability, Chelsea crumbles, she is not able to wither the storms the way these other girls seem to be.
And part of that is also just her personality, IMO, bc Maci also had a stable upbringing, but she was resilient enough to be able to wither the storms in the face of instability and chaos and is able to move on much more quickly once a relationship ends.
You bring up some really good points. It did take her forever to move on from Adam, and if she hadn’t met Cole, I bet she’d still be in the same boat. I think Chelsea better thank her parents for providing her with a stable upbringing and her dad especially for all the support he gives because I could totally see her being in situation similar to Leah’s if she grew up in a more turbulent home.
Some people just have more sensitive personalities and aren’t as resilient as most. I think that’s definitely Chelsea. There’s also those rare people, who will survive and be fine no matter what. They might have dealt with abuse in their childhoods or other unstable upbringings, and while that did affect them, of course, they still are able to move on and live a stable happy life as an adult despite what happened to them. I had a Psychology professor once who called them dandelions. You know since dandelions will and can grow anywhere even through cracks in cement. They’ll survive no matter what.
I don’t think they’re are any dandelions in this group though except maybe Kail. Yeah others might feel the pain of her upbringing because of the way she treats them but she will always be ok. Right now she doesn’t have to work hard because of the show but I think she would if she suddenly became broke. Also, I do like that she at least tries to do other things to capatalize on her fleeting fame like the children’s books and the podcast. Kail’s ego is what gets in the way of her having any real success. She thinks she’s a lot more talented and famous than she really is.
But yeah Chelsea is one of those really sensitive people. It’s not all bad to be like her. People like her are usually really easy going, are really good to other people, can have really big hearts. Their nature can just be a little on the delicate side so you have to tread carefully with them, and they really, most of all need a stable, good upbringing to be okay in life.
Dang, here I go again writing another novel. lol Sorry about that. Lots of stuff making me think. Maybe I should just go try my hand at writing raps/poetry and post it on twitter like Tyler. Get all my thoughts out. Lmao
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20 hours ago, Pixiebomb said:
Yeah Chelsea's segments are boring but that's because she is normal, in a committed, stable relationship. I'm a SAHM and have been married 23 years. I can guarantee you that if MTV were filming my life they would watch me make lunches, put kids on the school bus, hit the gym, come home and do 11 loads of laundry. Boring. Normal. I'm glad she's normal. Good for her.
I don’t think Chelsea’s segments are boring because of her normal, happy life. I’m one of those people that don’t mind and would even welcome seeing someone’s real life that is basically normal and happy.
It’s just that we don’t really get to see anything from Chelsea’s real life unless her life only consists of picking up Aubree from school then sitting on the couch discussing Adam until Cole gets home from work where they say hello to each other and then nothing else.
Show her working with her animals, going out with friends or Cole to do something fun, show her working on any hobbies she might have like doing makeup, hair etc. The only thing we get to see from Chelsea is her sitting on the couch discussing Adam. I want something more. I know that isn’t all her life consists of.
They don’t have to show drama or fighting to make it interesting but they do need to show us something real not staged or scripted. And by scripted, I mean being directed in what to talk about through leading questions by the producers and staged set-ups like having her friend Chelsea Grace come over only for the purpose of having someone to discuss Adam’s latest drama with.
Btw, I didn’t mean to sound like I’m attacking you or your opinion by quoting you. I completely understand what you’re saying. I even agree somewhat. I just wanted to explain why some people like myself find Chelsea’s segments boring and would like to see more. Just didn’t want you to take what I was saying wrong. I’m never trying to attack any posters on these boards or their opinions. I know sometimes the intention behind the words can get lost when we can’t see each other face to face. So just know, I never mean to come across as harsh in my replies. I enjoy that there are lots of different points of views expressed here. I just like to throw in my take on things if I find myself with a different opinion. Just wanted to clear that up since I just saw the mod note about not attacking other posters. I love all of you guys! ?
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On 5/11/2018 at 11:43 AM, BravoAddict72 said:
I am guilty of doing this sometimes. I think it's because our son is an only child and is around adults more than other kids so sometimes I forget how young he is. Aubree seems really mature for her age and I think part of that is being an only child for so long and part is spending so much time with Chelsea. My husband works weekends (he is a chef) so my son was always with me running errands and getting everything done on the weekends since I work during the week. He is my mini me, just like I think Aubree is to Chelsea. I think they are just really close, and are friends as well as mother and daughter.
Makes sense. I tend to have a similar dynamic with my child. My child even told me once, “Mom I never needed a dad or even a brother or sister cause I got all of those with you. You act like an older brother sometimes when you annoy the crap out of me, and an older sister because I can come and talk to you about anything and you’re up to date on the latest pop culture, and you’re even like a dad in the way you are always telling those lame dad jokes.” ?I think I was both insulted and felt complimented at the same time.
I don’t know if having the friendship dynamic as a parent is the best thing or not. I tend to think that it is. I tend to believe you can be both a parent and a child’s friend but I know many disagree with that. I think that’s why I noticed how Chelsea was with Aubree. I think you have to be careful when you have a child young that you don’t get too into the big sister role and forget to be the parent. It can happen. I noticed it more with my own situation as my child became a teen.
Anyway, hindsight is always 20/20. I think Chelsea has a good relationship with Aubree and is a parent to her not just a friend.
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On 5/11/2018 at 2:10 PM, BARISTA said:
Again though, I often wonder is it a teen mom thing that if their relationship with their babydaddy doesn't work out, they seem to have this fascination/focus/blind ambition to find a husband and get married and have more kids and settle down even though they are soooo young with their whole lives ahead of them for that ? I can understand them desperately wanting a stable family unit for the sake of their kids, but surely some counselling to build up their confidence, self esteem and mental strength as good single moms would help more than rushing into another marriage and having more kids with the next guy you meet ? I mean it's great to have a partner and to have that support, especially if you've been a single mom for a while, but why not have a relationship with the guy for a period long enough to really test it and be sure that it will last before committing to something as serious as marriage? IDK it's been a theme of this show and the girls just seem to treat marriage very lightly IMO
I think they are all highly focused on creating a family. I think once you become a mother you often start living for your children. If you are a single parent (I was and am so I have personal insight), then you think you need to find a father for your child and create what society has deemed as the perfect family for them. This can have disastrous consequences when said mother is mentally unstable or just emotionally immature due to being young or just stunted.
Our teen moms would most definitely benefit from some long time spent single, no dating at all, and in intense counseling to build their self esteem and learn how to set and achieve goals and provide a life for themselves, one where they can be happy and their kid or kids can be happy even if they never find someone to marry.
But our teen moms are a very impulsive group as whole with some high mental instability going on. They want to find their “happy ending”. Which for them means marrying the love of their lives, having more children, and having the family they never had.
A lot of them look for unconditional love through having children and trying to find their “soul mate”. They are very unhappy and have a myriad of issues going on but they think if they can just find the perfect man and have a picture perfect family, they will finally be happy and all their issues will disappear.
I think this is exactly what is going on with Jenelle, Leah, and even Maci and Chelsea to an extent. I don’t think Chelsea has any real issues though and Maci probably doesn’t have many either imo. Probably why both Chelsea and Maci were able to find mentally healthy, relatively good guys to marry and their lives seem to be more stable.
Kail kind of fits this theme too but she’s kind of different as well because she has a temper problem and seems to lack empathy for others as well as her putting her hands on her men. I sometimes think the show made her worse with the instant fame and easy money but she might have ended up the way she is regardless.
And Amber is a lot like Kail only worse because she doesn’t even try to take care of her children and she’s way lazier than Kail in regards to keeping her house clean, actually leaving the sofa or the bed etc. Those two are the most alike though, personality wise. I find it interesting too that they both had crazy, alcoholic mothers who cared more about their dick of the month than their child’s needs. Funny how Amber and even Kail have followed in their exact footsteps even though they probably desperately wanted to be nothing like them.
Anyway, TLDR: All these people need intense, intense therapy, and not of the Catelynn variety, to break these cycles or we’re gonna see the same patterns playing out with their children in a few years time.
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On 5/11/2018 at 6:45 PM, Lm2162 said:Yep, this completely! In real life, like if we were coworkers or something, I'd definitely find her annoying. Just not my type of person/friend. She's fine and everything, just not my cup of tea. I actually really like Cole, though. But I still hold my breath waiting for her scenes because the show is now like:
Abuser #1 (Jenelle)
Abuser #2 (Kailyn)
Slightly Less Intense Abuser #3 (Leah)
Normal Person (Chelsea)
I wonder if MTV did that on purpose? Do they always try to pick a "normal" teen mom who stands a chance of a decent life alongside three total train wrecks? I think Maci was supposed to be that in the other cast. Are they supposed to provide the sigh of relief after the relentless abuse and neglect? What a weird premise for a show.
Personally, I do wish we saw Chelsea doing more, and all the teen moms and dads, not because of anything about gender roles or being a jellus hater towards Chelsea or whatever the heck, I just think the show is so boring at this point. It's just watching a horror show of absolutely terrible parents and then a few minutes of producers asking Chelsea about Adam. I WANT to see Gary working on houses, I WANT to see anybody have a job or a hobby or an interest or a discussion about anything interesting that isn't an ex, an upcoming charge or a toxic dating relationship. ANYTHING!!!! I want to see what kinds of things Vee does on the weekends, I want to see Cole doing a project, I want to see anybody have a conversation about politics or playdates or daycare or a book or anyythinggg that isn't jail or how trashy they are. Even if it's just for 30 seconds to remind me they are human beings. For such a popular network, MTV is really uncreative with the storylines. "K let's talk about Barb or somebody's baby mama/daddy and how much they suck for the 27th season."
I would literally rather just watch Lincoln make faces into the camera for forty minutes straight than most of the stuff that's on now.
YES! To all of this! I would love to see Chelsea doing something with friends or working on a hobby like her makeup or something, same with Gary & Maci for that matter (although Maci has started to become unlikeable for me so maybe less Maci lol). I don’t really care for hearing about her thoughts on Adam or what he’s up to. We can read about his recent arrests in real time. Rehashing it on the show is just boring and redundant.
And to whoever said Chelsea is held to a different standard, I kind of agree. I can see why because she is very likeable and seems to be doing a great job as a mom and wife. But for me, I feel Chelsea should be held to a higher standard but just not in the way that she is.
As compared to the other moms on her show, she had the best upbringing of all the teen mom 2 girls and even the teen mom OG girls with the exception of Maci. No abuse or money problems like poverty that we know of, no mental illness, and she has two highly involved parents, one of which is also highly educated. Of all the teen mom 2 girls, I feel she has the least amount of excuses for poor behavior. I’m not excusing the other girls. I’m just saying it is more understandable when we see someone like Leah not be able to finish anything she starts, struggle with addiction, and not know how to have a successful relationship. Someone like Leah’s never seen a stable relationship growing up and doesn’t have the benefit of having a parent with an education and successful career to teach her about goal setting and hard work, etc. These things are almost foreign concepts to someone like Leah.
That’s why I don’t think Chelsea is some amazing, inspirational figure but I don’t think anyone else here thinks that either. I think people just like her and respect her for being a good mother and, from what we can see, a good person. I just think she should be held to a higher standard because, I personally, have higher expectations for someone like Chelsea.
She does seem happy enough and seems to be doing a good job providing a home for her children, and that’s a wonderful thing. But she should be doing that! She had that kind of life growing up, as far as we know, so she owes it to her kids to at least provide them with the same thing.
Now I know that her parents did divorce, and this could have caused her some harm. Maybe why she made some poor choices in hs with Adam and getting pregnant. But I still don’t think her parents’ divorce even compares to the childhoods some of these people have had. And maybe she should be commended for her relationship with Cole. Maybe, in her mind, if she can provide a stable loving relationship for her kids and stay married their entire lives than she will have surpassed even what her parents did for her. I do hope she’s able to do it. I’m just not gonna give her props for taking care of her child and trying to be the best mother she can be because that’s what she should be doing.
Idk, sorry for the rambling. I think I was trying to make a point but got lost there somewhere. lol
BTW, I love Chelsea. I really like her personality and love her style and even her makeup skills! I wouldn’t mind seeing more from her like in the quoted above. I think some people get annoyed at the love for her because she’s not perfect and sometimes it seems her mistakes are given more understanding like her continuing to stay with Adam over and over until she finally lucked out with Cole than people would give any of the other girls if that makes sense. Anyway, I think there are good points made on both sides. Why I really enjoy the discussions here.
Off Topic Note: Happy Mother’s Day to all the PTV mothers! And to Chelsea, Barb, Vee, Kristina, and maybe even Tyler (thought I should add him because he does seem to be the only parent Nova has), some of the real mothers on Teen Mom.
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6 months or less sounds good. Oh and who will be watching their various children as the fight goes down? My bet is on Brittany holding Stella but in clear view of the stage, Briana’s mom (for some reason her name has completely escaped my brain) throwing shoes, Barb will have Jace in a safe place away from everything, Ensley won’t even be there as she’ll be with Mama Eason, and poor little Kaiser, hopefully Barb will be able to get him away from it all too.
EDIT: AND, they will be rewarded for their behavior as only MTV can do by giving them their own show because this is the world we live in.
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So how long before Brianna does or says something to piss off Jenelle or vice versa, and it ends in a knock down drag out fight on stage at a reunion ala Jerry Springer? It’s the only place I can see this “friendship” going.
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14 hours ago, marinw said:
So Gilead’s State religion is a heavily modified and f*cked up version of Christianity. But on the Aunt Lydia or other authority figures never mentions Christ. (Unless I missed something)
The reason they don’t mention Christ is because it’s exactly that, a fucked up version of Christianity.
The Bible, or really any religious text like it, can be interpreted in so many different ways or passages can be taken out of context and highlighted to take on a whole new meaning than was originally intended. Happens all the time. People will use passages or just lines of texts to suit whatever their agenda is.
Christians that truly follow the Bible would never disregard Jesus and his most important rule, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” and “Love your neighbor as yourself”. Unfortunately they’re are a lot of very flawed humans that use religion and fear to control.
That’s what can make organized religion so dangerous. Especially when you teach the children never to question God or whatever holy book you are teaching them. Children especially, but also adults should always be taught and encouraged to question everything. After all, if you are someone who believes in a God that created us, then you should believe he/she/they gave us a brain and the freedom of thought with the intention that we would use it.
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On 5/9/2018 at 4:06 PM, marinw said:
There are a lot of econowives! This supports the theory that the problem is with male sperm.
So what happens if the wife of a commander becomes pregnant, and is not as “barren” as previously thought? Even if sex between wife and commander is forbidden, such a rule is impossible to enforce. Or an unsatisfied wife may get together with a driver or some other man in a Commander’s employ.
I think it would depend which commander it is and how much power he has over the others. A lower level commander, yeah baby reassigned maybe and commander and wife punished. A higher up commander with a lot of power? Maybe he could sway the others to believing some lie like that they never had sex. The pregnancy was a true miracle from God!
And this is assuming all commanders are not equal. Actually, the more I think about it, I think all the commanders might be on a equal level. And actually scratch what I just wrote. I think any of the commanders that are respected enough by the others might be able to pull off the miracle cover story.
But what would probably happen is that the commander in question would end up trying to throw his wife under the bus and say she seduced him with her “evil womanly ways”, and the other commanders would have mercy on him. Actually that’s probably exactly how it would play out. Give those guys an opportunity to stick it to the women around them, and they will.
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4 hours ago, littlemommy said:
...Aunt Lydia, is that you? ;)
Dying! ? That’s exactly what I was thinking! Aunt Lydia has infiltrated the forums!
On a more serious note, I think I understand what you were trying to say @SWLinPHX. Ann Dowd does do such a masterful job at being the abuser. She actually makes viewers believe she is only abusing everyone for their own good. Standing ovation to her!
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On 5/3/2018 at 1:40 PM, Bridget said:
WTF is that shape/size of exposed brick? It looks like a lump - just sitting there without any functionality. Is this his tribute to Cate?
Omg girl! Dying! So wrong but so true. Lmao
As for Tyler’s sister and that video, that is beyond disturbing. And here I was giving Tyler some praise on another thread. If that was my niece, you can bet your ass I would do something about this. This makes me sick. Good on you @druzy for reporting it. I’m just really sick to my stomach now.
Oh and The Heavenly Kid was one of my favorite movies when I was little. I had it recorded on an old VHS tape and would watch it over and over again. And now I want to hunt that movie down so I can watch it again.
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6 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:
It is not that June is without fault or above criticism. It is the eagerness to solely focus on her's in any given situation that I find fascinating. It is sad because this is something I have come to expect from viewers since I started posting about TV shows. I thought the audience for such a show would be less incline to fall into that tap.
Nonetheless, it is disconcerting because that kind of collective sentiment could enable a Gilead concept into a reality. I'll explain. Yes, June forcing Omar to take her with him is an action that led to the ruins of his family but from everything we know, should her faults be the centerpiece of these discussions? Shouldn't her circumstances be included for a total analysis of her actions? The way her voice broke when she pleaded with him to take her from her newest cell? That was was in the early stages of her pregnancy and had little human contact? If June's actions are not excusable, what is? Tolerable? Should a woman who was chased down like a dog, whose child was literally ripped from her arms, continually raped and living in bondage while acting as a incubator to her captures be held at the same standard as an adult of sound mind and body with full agency? Why is the desperation and total hopelessness of her circumstances that drive her action not strike a chord, but the wrongness of her actions does? Her role in the demise of Omar's family more noteworthy than anything else, becasue?
The fact that in a situation where there are several faults, the loudest criticism is for the female victim - with little regard to her motivation or circumstances - is divisive to the gender and leaves us more vulnerable IMO.
It being a fictional show is not a good enough reason because this conversation is part of the social discourse on the subject. Whether fictional or real life, for real change to happen, IMO we ought to be more forgiving, be a little more tolerant of faults and protective because we are vulnerable. Men like The Commander and his ilk will have a tougher time dominating our sex if weren't so hard on ourselves.
Amen! All of this. Very well said.
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@Scarlett45 You might be right about me projecting. I do deal with anxiety and depression myself as well as having a child with anxiety so I probably was just thinking about it through my own situation.
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On 5/1/2018 at 8:46 PM, WhosThatGirl said:
All this. I feel for Cate but it always seems that whatever went down in the past she hasn’t dealt with it really or she mentions it is over it because Jobs was staying over there quite a lot when she was a baby.
The same can be said for Tyler and Butch though. Butch watched Nova a lot too, it’s odd, the way these two talked about how awful their parents were but don’t mind them when they need free babysitters.
I don’t really judge them on this. I think both Butch and April were doing a lot better when they were babysitting Nova. I did side eye them a bit when they left Nova with Butch so long when they traveled to the reunion or wherever they went. I think if they see their parents going back to their old ways they stop leaving Nova with them. At least Tyler anyway.
Now in an ideal situation, no I probably wouldn’t be letting the likes of April or Butch take care of my child but they are Cate and Tyler’s parents.
I think Tyler really wants to believe they are doing better and wants to give them the opportunity to be a part of their grandkids’ lives and spend time with them. I think Tyler desperately wants to have a normal relationship with them like other adult kids have with their parents. But at the same time, I think he is realistic and knows that while they may be sober one day, it’s fleeting from one day to the next.
I don’t think Tyler has any delusions about Butch at this point. He seems to pretty much take him for what he is, supports him when he’s doing well, tries to get him help when he isn’t, and otherwise seems to keep himself emotionally ready for when Butch fails him spectacularly like he always does. It’s really a very mature way to handle things for someone his age that grew up the way he did.
I didn’t include what Cate thinks about anything because I’m not sure she does think.
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On 5/1/2018 at 1:07 AM, leighroda said:
You know, this made me think... Farrah pretty clearly has some mental health issues, I’m not going to diagnose her or pretend I know what they are, but I would bet my next paycheck that she has some official diagnosis. Meanwhile Mental health advocate Cate wastes no time talking trash about Farrah. I thought we were supposed to talk about mental health and support the sufferer no matter what. ??♀️
You know I’ve tried to be neutral when it comes to Cate because I do believe she suffers from depression and anxiety and has tons of issues from her childhood and giving Carly up, but it’s hard to continue to feel sorry for her.
She really doesn’t seem to have any sympathy for other people, or at least that’s how she comes off. I hate when she slut shames Farrah or acts like she is one of the “cool girls” and gangs up on her with Maci and the others. It’s like on one hand, Cate is this person who likes to party, is pretty cool and down with whatever and then on the other hand tries to be this “perfect, Christian” mother. It’s weird and hypocritical.
She has no room to judge anyone else on their life choices. Not at this point. And you would think because of what she has been through, she would automatically feel more sympathy and have more understanding of others. It’s just not the case.
Also, she really needs to help Tyler out with the business, Nova, and the house projects. She doesn’t even try to do anything. I understand that she was going through a terrible situation but she should be in a position, at least now, to be able to start trying to pull her own weight. I don’t see her ever doing that though and not because of the depression but because of who she is as a person. And you know, none of this is really fair to Tyler. I mean I know why Cate is with Tyler. He does a lot for her and really takes care of everything. But what does Cate bring to the relationship? If she doesn’t start trying to make things more equal between them, this relationship is sure to be doomed. A person can only take so much. I’m not saying Tyler is some kind of saint but when you are doing everything in a relationship and getting nothing in return, you eventually walk away. And I won’t judge Tyler when that happens as long as he continues to be a good father to Nova.
(Hmm maybe I should’ve put this in the Cate & Ty thread. Let me know if anyone thinks I should move it, and I will.)
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6 hours ago, SPLAIN said:
As far as I can see, Cole is the only father in Aubree's life. The same way Kristina is Leah's mother.
I wonder if Gary is seen the same way? Do people think he wishes his ex would give up her parental rights so his wife can just be the only mother to Leah?
I think that’s exactly what Gary would want if it somehow wouldn’t hurt Leah but he knows it would hurt her so he doesn’t.
I don’t think Chelsea is as mature as Gary though. Obviously, I think she loves Aubree to death and wants the best for her, but I think she tries to avoid thinking about the hard things. Like that Aubree may love Adam and already have a relationship with him, however weak that may be, so it would hurt her a lot if Adam just suddenly cut ties. I think she does realize that on some level, thus why she still allows Aubree to see him. I just don’t think she thinks about it too deeply.
I think she sometimes lives in a fantasy world and thinks that now that Aubree has Cole, she will be just fine if Adam walks away forever. And granted Aubree probably will be just fine in the long run but if that were to happen, I do think it would cause some hurt to Aubree. I, honestly, feel terrible for the both of them. Neither Chelsea or Aubree deserve the hurt that POS has caused them or that will continue to cause them in the future.
And this my friends is why you should always practice safe sex, and is also one of the many reasons why becoming a teen parent is such an unfortunate situation.
I do think Chelsea and Aubree will be just fine no matter what though. They are both lucky to have really good families and loved ones around them.
I truly think Chelsea’s situation has turned out so much better than the other moms because of the family she had and how she was raised. If she had been raised by one of the other grandparents on this show, I could see her continuing to make some terrible choices even now. Thank god for good parents like Randy.
And on a completely different note, does anyone else think Chelsea kind of treats Aubree like a teenager as opposed to a little girl? Almost like Aubree is her little sister or something? She doesn’t do it all the time but it does come out sometimes.
I think they could have that dynamic because Chelsea was so young when she had her. Chelsea is probably just now feeling like a “real” adult because she’s not that old. It probably is a weird dynamic to have a child that old when you are that young.
Just some random thoughts I had while watching this episode. I rally don’t mean to criticize Chelsea so much as a mother. I think overall she’s doing a wonderful job. And I commend her for doing so well for a person who became a mother when she was still just a child herself. I just find her situation interesting. And I don’t mind watching and discussing her because with her I don’t have to think about the unimaginable damage she might be doing to her children. Chelsea is just someone who I can watch her story and think and discuss the different elements without having to worry about her and her children as a whole, if that makes sense.
BTW, sorry for the novels! Insomnia has struck so here I am going on and on. lol
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Does anyone else think that Aubree shouldn’t have been left with the decision to change her name? I feel she’s too young, and that no matter how she really feels about it, having her make the decision puts her in a very uncomfortable place with her bio father and his family.
If I was Chelsea, I would have told her we were changing her last name to Lind-Deboar because she is just as much a part of their new family as Chelsea and Watson are so she should get to share their last name too. Now if she got upset and said she didn’t want to do that, then Chelsea could have backed off and told her it was fine to keep her name the same. No problem. You’re still just as much a part of this family, etc. But if she seemed happy about it, then they could have moved forward.
I also would have told Adam and his parents myself, not left all of that on a little girl’s shoulders. I feel like Aubree would have had a lot less anxiety about the whole thing if that’s how things went. I think she does want the name Lind-Deboar because she loves her dad and his family as well as Cole. I just think she’s uncomfortable with how her dad or paternal grandparents will react, and she shouldn’t have to deal with that at all. That is adult stuff Chelsea should deal with no matter how uncomfortable Chelsea might be facing Adam and his parents on the issue. (I don’t know if she really is uncomfortable to approach them about it. I just know it sure as heck shouldn’t be something Aubree has to worry about.)
Now just because I don’t agree with how she handled that issue, that doesn’t mean I think she is a bad mother or that I dislike her. I just didn’t like how much anxiety this might be causing Aubree. Her mother should shield her from that when she can, but I get the feeling Chelsea leaves all the explaining and communicating with the Linds to Aubree. I may be completely wrong about that, but that’s just the feeling I get. That Chelsea is the type to avoid confrontation so avoids it whenever possible even if it means letting her little girl deal with something she shouldn’t have to. JMO
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Oh and I’m not saying what June did is anywhere near what Serena has done to her. I’m just saying, I think June is seeing similarities between them.
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- Popular Post
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4 hours ago, millennium said:I'm not sure I'd call June's visit to the wall gaslighting or brainwashing. More of a reality check. June did impose herself on Omar. Gilead killed him, but June's exploitation of Omar's compassion set the dominoes in motion. Is it brainwashing to show her the consequences of her actions? She placed her needs ahead of his and ahead of his family's despite knowing the risk they faced. Gilead is a bad place, to be sure. But when is it ever okay to endanger others to save yourself? With each new episode June is seeming more and more selfish. In this episode we witness that June was a homewrecker long before she put the Omars in jeopardy. I have a strong feeling there are many better candidates for our sympathy in Gilead than June Osborne.
Wow, I didn’t see it this way at all.
First, Omar’s death and his family being caught should not be placed squarely on June’s shoulders. She had no intention of these things happening to them. Omar decided on his own to join the resistance and participate in helping her. Yes, he did try to leave, and June got him to take her along with him but June was in survival mode herself. She wasn’t trying to get him killed. She was just trying to get to safety herself. She shouldn’t be made to feel such tremendous guilt that it causes her to want to erase her entire being and become someone else.
June is guilty of is sleeping with a married man and asking him to leave his wife for her. But she shouldn’t spend the rest of her life being punished for it. And it definitely doesn’t make what has happened to her something she deserves.
And it’s not like she didn’t feel any guilt at all. I think she did feel guilt but she pushed it away and believed the lies Luke told her and that she told herself. The lies she needed to believe. That Luke wasn’t in love with Annie anymore. That Luke loved her more than he ever did his wife. That Annie is just doing this to make their life difficult because she’s some crazy person who can’t let go of Luke.
I also saw a parallel between June’s situation with Annie and Serena Joy’s situation with June. I think for the first time, June understood maybe a little piece of who Serena is. How Serena is in love with this idea of having a baby, of making June’s baby hers, of believing that June isn’t really June but Offred, her faithful handmaid that wants to give her a baby because it’s all God’s plan.
Serena desperately needs to believe the lies she tells herself, as well as the lies her husband tells her, in order to not see the horrific reality she had a hand in creating.
Anytime June speaks out of place, says something not scripted for her, or gives a look that says June and not Offred, it makes Serena near insane because she can’t handle the cracks of reality beginning to show. Because just like June with Annie, she would have to come to terms with the fact that she was putting her own selfish desires above someone else’s happiness and needs.
While obviously what Serena is doing is on a whole different level of cruelty, it doesn’t stop June from seeing the similarities between them. The only difference is June feels bad about what she did but Serena refuses to feel anything but anger, hate, and righteousness. Still I think June saw Serena as an equal of sorts, even if just for a moment.
Just my take on it.
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On 10/29/2017 at 3:41 AM, Joe Hellandback said:
What I find interesting is that politically the series doesn't seem to know where it wants to go. It was written in the mid 80s when the Reagan revolution was in full swing and Iran was still reeling from the Iranian Revolution (including people being publicly hanged from cranes in Tehran, a trope HT has adopted). It was also a time of the AIDS hysteria against homosexuals, rampant televangelism, nutball militias setting up in backwoods American and the rise of the religious right, arguably all in a backlash against the malaise of the 1970s. The author basically took what happened in Iran and transposed it to the US with fundamentalist Christianity rather than fundamentalist Islam, the ultimate extremism of Reaganism. What is ironic of course is that the whole Gilead seizing power by faking a terrorist attack and declaring a national emergency is right out of the nutball rightwing militia handbook, it's their paranoid theory, not normally the left wing's. Equally the massacre of the marchers is straight out of Tiananmen Square (passive resistance only works against democracies, if you're free to protest against a police state you don't actually live in a police state).
But I honestly cannot think of a time in history when the whole Gilead scenario is LESS LIKELY. People who look at the Handmaid's tale and say 'Oh this is what's happening in Trump's America' puzzle me greatly. This is a president who appeared on the cover/videos of Playboy, married a nude fashion model and appoints women to key positions of power not to mention his Jewish son in law. Rather than trying to build fences/restrict air travel to keep people in he's trying to do it to keep people out. The religious right is in terminal decline, the militias are a ghost of what they once were, homosexuals are more free than ever before and pretty much everyone has more civil liberty than ever before. The threat from terrorism is extremely real and it truly embodies the evils demonstrated in HT. But I guess it's easier to look inwardly and try to 'blame America first' than confront an implacable alien enemy who cannot be reasoned with or brought down by peaceful means?
I know this is an old post but I still wanted to respond to this. I do understand what you are trying to say but there have been some real threats recently to both women and LGBT’s freedoms.
All the planned parenthood in my state, TX, have been shut down by being defunded. Also, in my state as well as other Republican dominated states, you can send your child to gay conversion therapy (I highly recommend watching “Kidnapped for Christ” for more on gay conversion therapy camps). There are camps like this in TX that are completely legal and active today. Also, Mike Pence, our current Vice President, has supported these camps in the past.
Also under our current administration, they have made it where companies do not have to cover birth control in their health insurance. That is insane and down right frightening all on its own! Birth control isn’t just used for preventing pregnancy. It’s also used for treating many female hormonal problems. Yes, we can still get birth control but TPTB have just made it much harder on us. These things should not be happening in 2018. They just shouldn’t. And it does scare me that our country has just let these things happened by turning a blind eye. It’s sickening and does make something like The Handmaid’s Tale all the more real to me.
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Red Habits: Symbolism and Parallels
in The Handmaid's Tale
https://youtu.be/R45eiu8SXko
Hopefully I’m posting this in the right thread, and that it hasn’t already been posted. I just saw this posted on reddit and felt that it really explains all the symbolism and parallels in The Handmaid’s Tale really well. It also really shows all of the points The Handmaid’s Tale is trying to make about our society, sexism, the importance of reproductive freedom to everyone etc. Worth a watch, I think.