closeyoureyes

I still love this show. Objectively I think aspects of it are mediocre (especially if by "mediocre" you mean downright terrible!), but it still has my heart. My attachment to my TV shows goes beyond loyalty and can be considered masochism at this point. I'm aware I have a problem :-) Along that same vein, I still love Stelena. I'm a grown woman who still ships them with all the ardor of a pre-teen - and all the stubborn denial of someone who's blocked out about 80% of the show's canon. I enjoy Damon, but not as a love interest for Elena or Bonnie. I still like Elena, which I'll admit is probably because she was just generic enough for me to project shamelessly onto her character. Someone who likes to write, is capable of great sadness and intense joy, passionate and impulsive and follows her heart and current instincts even when she really shouldn't. I relate to Elena, or at least the version of Elena in my head, though I will admit that she can be very frustrating to watch. A lot of people think it was inevitable that Elena had to at some point become a vampire, but I really wish she had remained human. Caroline and Stefan should have been a great relationship, but I thought the reality of it was so awkward to watch and the chemistry was nonexistent. Neither seemed really in love or even happy. For all my many complaints about this show, Stefan Salvatore is one of my favorite male TV characters ever. I agree totally with people who said that the first few seasons of this show were really underrated as genuinely good TV, and the plotting and pacing were superb. What happened?! I should have grown to hate the endlessly dysfunctional dynamic between Damon and Stefan, but their scenes are still always among my favorite aspects of the show.

Oh, me too, me too! We seem to be the only people on this particular forum who feel that way, so we can be unpopular together :-) I loved them so much more than I thought I would. I thought their differences were shown to be complementary, that deep down they're a lot more similar than people (including Clark and Lois themselves) believed, and felt they made each other stronger and better and were their real selves - in contrast to Clana, where they ended up holding each other back, ultimately made each other weaker, and were each other's unrealistic idyllic dream rather than soulmates in reality. I also agree about wishing Chloe had never had a crush on Clark, especially such a drawn out one. I love Chloe and feel like that ended up doing her character a disservice while not bringing out Clark's best either. I see why Chlark shippers think he did at times have feelings for her, but I agree with whoever said there always seemed to be a big imbalance there, with her always having far more romantic feelings for him than he ever did or could for her. And Chloe being jealous over Clana for so long is cringe-inducing to watch, especially given how otherwise great she is as a character. Which brings me to my most unpopular opinion: I love Chloe, Lana and Lois. I don't enjoy Chloe and Lana as romantic interests for Clark, but I did like and connect with both characters. As for Lois, I'll echo those who say they see why many would dislike her, but her many flaws are part of why I love her. I agree with the above poster that despite some similarities to Chloe --- spirited, determined, impulsive, snarky and into journalism and justice --- Lois was different, more of a tough, defiant, brash, stubbornly independent, arrogant, jaded exterior than sunnier Chloe, who always seemed more plucky, open, trusting despite her snark, more eager to work with and connect with others, and showed her emotions and vulnerabilities more readily. (Not that Lois didn't have plenty of powerful and soft emotions, vulnerabilities and insecurities - maybe even more than most - but she was more practiced at concealing them). They have different energies. I love this show. Always have and always will. (I even have a Tumblr account dedicated to it, allsmallville, because I'm that obsessed with this show and in that dire need of a life!) The frustrating thing for me is that each season had something that held it back from reaching its pinnacle, at least to me. The first few seasons feel clunky and outdated in a way now, like others have said they're too simplistic and unsubtle, and there's too way much triangle drama among Lana, Clark and Chloe. But those seasons also have the best and most fascinating Lex moments (I love Lex with Lionel, with Clark, with anyone---I even love Lexana later on despite how twisted it is!) and there's a sweet earnestness to them that touches me. I really love Seasons 4 through 6, but they're downgraded a little bit for me because as Lex becomes more comic book evil, he becomes less nuanced and compelling, and so does his dynamic with Clark. Season 7 has more tiresome Clana and the unwelcome addition of Kara. Seasons 8-10 give us the Clois I always dreamed of, and I did like Chlollie a lot too, but I missed Lex, hated some of the annoying Blur stuff, and the tone just felt too somber and flat sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I really do love every season, and even the worst episodes have a few scenes I enjoy. I'm just saying that I also understand why this show causes those of us who are fans almost as much frustration as joy sometimes! Another uo is that I really love Smallville's version of Clark Kent, don't find him boring or one dimensional at all, and think Tom Welling was perfect for this role - and not just due to his looks. Jonathan Kent is actually the one character I find boring, not to mention self-righteous and annoying, but I love Martha. For all the show's problems, it's still so rewatchable, so addictive, and yes, so epic! I know that the people who post here a lot disagree with almost all of these, especially loving Smallville's Lois and Clois, but that's what makes being a fan fun and interesting! And if anyone else reading this loves them too, just know that you are not alone!

I watched most of this series for the first time and have enough odd opinions to fill several posts but will try to control myself! This show is actually sort of mediocre overall and at times terrible. As many have said, it's got some great dialogue, some very well done individual scenes, and...that's it. The characters all get to the point of being horribly unlikable in ways that the writer doesn't seem to intend. The attempts at girl power empowerment are muddled and ultimately fall flat. It has some extraordinarily antiquated, outdated ideas about class, social status and even romantic relationships while also trying too hard to be edgy. It's too twee and saccharine to work as a sharp and clever satire and too cynical, obnoxiously and unrealistically quirky and filled with unlikable protagonists and cardboard caricatures to fully work as a sincere dramedy. It feels like a show that's straining to be too many things at once and ends up doing none of them particularly well. All three Gilmore girls are the worst. Emily is vicious, classist and so much more, and for a woman who prattles on nonstop about etiquette and breeding, she's astoundingly rude and ill-mannered in every way. Lorelai is narcissistic, absurdly immature, believes she's far more adorable and entertaining than she actually is, and always acts like she's high on methamphetmaines. Rory is in some ways the worst because she cravenly hides behind the security of being the allegedly good, nice one of these women and never seems to accept responsibility for how entitled, selfish, unethical and weak she really is. All three genuinely, sincerely think they're superior to everyone around them and are entitled to be treated as special. It makes it impossible for me to root for them. Luke and Lorelai are just terrible together, one of the most mismatched couples ever on TV, and I laughed when I saw someone post here about how they were written in every scene as if the showrunner was seething with resentment and bitterness about having to acknowledge them at all. 'You're forcing me to put them together? I'll show you to be careful what you wish for, you ignorant idiots!' I wish Mrs. Kim and Lane had been the mother/daughter duo of the show. They were more interesting, more entertaining, had a relationship that was both more nuanced and more amusing than Lorelai and Rory's, and were ultimately so much more likable. They're a main reason I kept watching the show even though I hated how the show stuck Lane with Zach and thought the actress pulled off the coup of the entire show by convincingly acting as if she actually cared about that wholly unappealing idiot. Logan and his friends are appalling, but the writers' idea of class are so bizarrely outdated and over the top that I can't even take them seriously. A few of my best friends went to Ivy League schools. (I was too busy reading for fun to care about school work, which was sadly reflected in my grades, lol.) My family didn't have a lot of money, but I encountered a lot of wealthy people while growing up and sometims still do in my line of work. Even taking into account that TV always exaggerates to be funnier, more dramatic or both, the writer's depcition of class divides really is unbelievably bizarre, and my favorite posts here were the ones about how her ideas are lifted straight from dramatic novels about Regency era England. My new heroine: whoever made that crack about worrying who will become the next Earl of Grantham if Logan doesn't marry Odette for what the writer hilariously attributed to "dynastic reasons"! Luke would have had a much happier relationship with Rachel. Or remaining on his own. Lorelai was much better matched with Christopher and Rory and Logan ended up very well suited. And believe me when I say that I don't mean that as a compliment to any of the four characters involved. I actually admire all of you who have the patience and fortitude to rewatch the series repeatedly. I barely made it through just once! I kept hanging in there because of how much I like Lane, sometimes Sookie and Michel, and a lot of the dialogue. Plus, I had this need to see why this show is so beloved and critically acclaimed. And it's not like I don't understand why or see any redeeming qualities, but unfortunately for me the show's flaws far outweighed its strengths. I actually found much of it extremely grating. And that's even before I got to that travesty of a revival!

You are all so eloquent and insightful! I'm not, but I can't resist adding my opinions because the only thing I love as much as watching this show is talking about it. I've been reading this thread for a few days and am ready to make that transition from lurker to participant. Season 1 is my favorite. I recently saw a Tumblr survey where Season 1 was voted second to last, behind only Season 8, and it wounded my fangirl soul. (FanWOMAN soul? I'm almost a senior citizen!) The sisters are so easy to love and relate to in the first season. I agree with the posters who like the crime and mystery component to many first season episodes. More than any subsequent season, the focus is on sisterhood and helping those in need while carving out identities as witches and women. There was some romantic drama, but it felt like a relatively minor aspect of the show. I liked Andy and how he revealed a softer side of Prue. Their conflict felt organic, rooted in their contrasting roles as detective and witch rather than just there for the sake of giving viewers the requisite romantic angst. I'm among the small group here who'd rather be at Quake than watching Piper run a suddenly wildly successful nightclub despite its "two drink maximum"and also part of the not quite as small group who thought Phoebe and Piper were both more lovable characters this season than any other. Prue, prickly, protective prideful and so fiercely loving in her own unusual way, was the hardest sister for me to like at first and now is probably my favorite, though Prue, Piper and Phoebe take turns being my favorite depending on the season and episode. I don't think Prue is coldhearted at all, just extremely guarded. She's got a lot of depth and nuance, in my opinion, or maybe I'm just reacting to the fact that the writing in general had more depth and nuance while Prue was still one the show. You might have noticed that I excluded Paige from my list of favorites. It's nothing against her, and I agree that she often bothers me less than Piper and Phoebe in later seasons of the show. The problem is that while her worst is not that bad, I never really love and get her nearly as much as I do Prue, Piper and Phoebe at their best. A couple other people have described it better than I can, but she just feels like a hastily thrown together character. She really was "all over the place" as a character, so inconsistent but not in ways that felt like a deliberate choice by the writers. During the Prue seasons, each character and their role in the family felt so carefully designed and thought out. If you gave me a scenario, I'd have had a pretty solid idea of how each sister would likely react to it. I felt like I had a firm grasp on their similarities and differences and how those traits affected their sisterhood and shaped their identities as witches. I could tell you what Prue and Phoebe were likely to connect on or come into conflict about, or sometimes I could identify certain dialgue or behavior as being so very Prue, so very Piper or so very Phoebe. Then Prue died and Paige arrived, and like others have said it wasn't just an issue of missing one individual character or getting used to a new one but of how the entire dyamic, feel and focus of the show became almost unrecognizable. I kept trying to figure out who Paige really was, but I honestly don't think the writers ever gave it much thought other than a vague idea that since she was now the youngest, she should be a little like Phoebe was as the youngest. Which meant, to the writers, that Phoebe had to suddenly become a radically different woman to leave Paige to inherit the title of the family's free spirit. I kept searching for the Phoebe I once knew, but by Season 5 she's completely MIA. Some will say she just grew up, but if anything she seemed to regress, losing her spririt, independence and the qualities that made her unique. And then we have Piper becoming, as someone else described her as, a "bitter shrew." She was always a little grouchy and snippy, but at the beginning it was more related to herself and came out when she was worried she couldn't handle something well, upset at having to shake up her life and give up the normalcy she always valued, or fearing for the safety of the people she loves. She was as much softness as cynicism. After Prue's death, everyone in her path seemed a target for her sniping even when no one had said or done anything to deserve it. Leo, who the TWoP recaps used to just refer to as The Dolt, existed just to listen to her criticize him and attempt the increasingly impossibe task of making her happy or at least not as unhappy. About everything. All the time. :-) I also agree with whoever pointed out that Piper seemed more happy and realxed with Mark Chao in just one episode and even dull Dan and Greg the S6 plot device than she ever did with Leo. Oh dear, where was I? The perils of aging is that I tend to digress more than ever! Anyway, I don't think Paige was ever given a consistent personality, I don't like how Phoebe and Piper both became so much less likable out of some misguided notion that a change in birth order has to completely alter grown women's previously established personalities, and Piper, Phoebe and Paige just never seemed to have anywhere near the rich sibling relationships that Prue, Piper and Phoebe did. You probably figured out from the above rant that I wish Leo had disappeared from the show in Season 2. I know that's unpopular, but I think it would have been so much better for Piper's character, and I'd have remembered Leo a lot more fondly if he hadn't stuck around to become more and more boring and sometimes petulant and self-pitying. Even better, the writers would have been forced to be more creative and thoughtful if Leo hadn't been there as a far too convenient plot device: the magical healer, exposition provider and the elders' go between. Even as early as Season 2, I missed watching the women figure things out for themselves. I don't even think the show needed elders and whiteligters at all! I not only agree that Piper as we knew her in S1 is the sister least likely to ever want to spend all her time in a nightclub, but I don't think the show needed a place like P3 at all. Even a quiet, cozier bar as their usual hangout spot would have been better. This show was not good at writing interesting male characters, which is interesting given that how much I love Prue and the original versions of Piper and Phoebe. So I know the writers were capable of writing great caracters, but when it came to males, they almost never did. Maybe because of what someone posited about Constance never expecting any of them to stick around longer term? I never liked Victor. Like someone said, he just came off as smarmy to me even when we were supposed to like him and feel touched by some of his interactions with his daughters. I love the show so much, but it's hard to watch season 1 and even parts of seasons 2, 3 and 4 without feeling disappointed by what it became.