arjumand
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Posts posted by arjumand
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5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:
I think it's to make it clear that they aren't an endgame couple. That kind of thing doesn't happen with endgames.
5 hours ago, Francie said:I think it was a message to the audience -- don't get too attached. Don't start rooting for them.
That was my impression too - and it wasn't just the whole avuncular sexing aspect. Rhaegar and Lyanna might have been in love (though I think on R's side it was mostly about the prophecy, and on L's it was partly not wanting to marry Robert), but their marriage / relationship was doomed from the start. Also, I think the actor was chosen to resemble Viserys, which was another hint for the audience, who'd immediately think, "Wait, this guy again?"
Not very good prospects for Jon and Dany.
1 hour ago, Oscirus said:So I just watched inside the episode and Jamie's reason for leaving Cersei is that she didn't tell him her plan? Are they serious? That's literally a worst reason than the books.
I don't watch any discussion of the episode led by people who made it, I just go by what I see on screen (I trust the tale, not the teller!). And Jaime said it twice: "I pledged my support" and "I gave my word." The way I saw it was that he'd decided he wasn't going to be an Oathbreaker ever again. I'm sure it didn't help that she totally did not consult him before making false promises etc - he was the head of her armies, such as they are now.
I really want to see his reunion with Brienne, now - I hope there's some sheepish apologies in his future!
I enjoyed the episode, and I'm glad my fears for Brienne's life (I thought Cersei was going to kill her) and the Wight's 'life' (I was afraid it was going to deactivate that far South) were unfounded.
I love that as Jaime rides North, it starts snowing, and then we see snow in King's Landing, just like at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Very cool.
My favourite bit of Cersei and Jaime arguing was when she revealed that she'd noticed that Dany only brought 2 dragons along for the ride, and then Jaime's all "So what? I saw what one can do, and it's enough!"
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4 minutes ago, mac123x said:
I posted this last year in the Climbing the Spitball Wall thread:
I meant it as a joke, Show!
The thing is, while it's a cliche, if it wasn't like this, the human race would be finished. They could never win, because if the wights just keep going forever, they could kill more people faster than the living could kill them.
On the other (heh) hand, I just rewatched Hardhome, and didn't notice any wights collapsing when Jon ice-cubed that White Walker. Hmm. Now I don't know anymore.
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28 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:
BTW, I love your Kill Baelish scenario. But I don't think Sansa will do the dirty work when he meets his end but it would be sweet.
Thank you! I know right - it would be awesome, but they have to have their grand moment of Petyr meeting his doom.
Or maybe Bran will finally wake up (Bran trippin') and give us some more monotone truths:
"I was watching, Lord Baelish, as you betrayed my father, my mother, killed Aunt Lysa, caused the war, and poisoned Joffrey.
You looked so beautiful." Then it's Stark Smash!I wish I could believe that it's the Stark sisters pulling a long con, but there's been at least one time when they were on their own, in a room with the door closed, when there was no reason to keep up the charade. I mean, does Petyr have someone hiding under Arya's bed?
I'm starting to think they're acting separately, each not trusting the other - and I don't blame Sansa one little bit.
She's been nothing but welcoming and happy with each sibling arriving at Winterfell, and they both replied with a resounding "Fuck you and your reunion!" I don't blame her for being resentful that she went through horrible things, just like they did, but she still manages to keep up the human being facade, while Bran is Data without his emotions chip and Arya's HAL (I'm afraid I can't do that, Sansa).
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In this episode, we finally got the confirmation that there's no Lady Stoneheart in the show, if any of us were still wondering, heh.
Sandor tells Gendry, about Beric "He's died six times, you don't see him whinging!"
In the books, Beric died seven times, the last one to bring Catelyn back to life, because Thoros refused to do it.
I think that Arya took her place - she's the new Lady Stoneheart, but not as extreme, because she's not a zombie. That's where all the serial killer like dialogue / scenes are coming from. I'm hoping that Arya will burst in on Sansa, just to mess with her a little more, and Sansa will be standing over the body of Petyr Baelish.
"Violent enough for you, sister? Now come on, do the face thing, and hurry up."
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35 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:
Was Meryl Trant the other face?
That's an idea! But I think the face looks too young for him - also, she was clearly lying about having taken the faces from Braavos, as one of them was Walder Frey. I tried to make the image a bit lighter, to make it a bit clearer.
27 minutes ago, Tikichick said:Were they at the Fist of the First Men where Jon previously ranged with LC Mormont?
No, the lake was in some kind of valley or clearing. Also, in Season 2, when they panned around on the Fist of the First men, I couldn't see the arrowhead shape (or at least, all the mountains looked equally pointy!)
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11 hours ago, KarenTargaryen said:
I was re-watching the scene in the previous episode where Bran sees the NK. The place where the NK and his men were standing looked very similar to the rock island that Jon and Co. were stranded on. Could someone do a side by side comparison? I'm not sure if this is accurate that it means this was all a trap by the NK, but ???
I went through all three episodes, and it's the same mountain, shaped like an arrowhead, in the background. The place Bran meets the Night King seems to be at a different angle, and there's the remains of the standing stones in a spiral, and the weirwood tree the CoF had the pre-Night King tied to, which we don't see. Jon and co seem closer to the mountain than Bran was.
4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:Longclaw's eyes definitely turned from silver to black when Jon came out of the water. It wasn't lighting, it seemed very purposeful. I absolutely loved that it was Uncle Benjen, who inspired Jon to join the NW, that saved Jon.
The sight of dead Viserion was so sad.
The director has said that it wasn't a planned shot - I looked at it again, and IMO it's just the effect of the water from Jon's hand hitting the eyes on the pommel. Great accidental shot, though!
I'd really like to know whose face Arya had in her creepy bag o' faces - one was Walder Frey, but I couldn't make out if the other one was Ed Sheeran, or one of the other Lannister soldiers from the season opener.
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3 hours ago, Constantinople said:
Tyrion devised the plan to send Yara's fleet to ferry the Dornish army to King's Landing, to capture Casterly Rock with the Unsullied and now to send a team to capture a wight to try to make a deal with his sister, whom he acknowledges is totally untrustworthy
As a result of this, they've lost Dorne and The Reach, the Unsullied have been neutralized for the moment and now Viserion is dead
Why does Tyrion still have a job?
At this point I'm just rolling my eyes at everything he says. My favourite part was when he said something to the effect of "Of course, Cersei is planning to kill us all, right? We're walking into a trap, you know this, right? But we're not going to make a trap of our own, in case something goes wrong, oh no. We're better than that."
Editing to add - I'm kind of ignoring his "of course, if she touches you, we'll burn the Red Keep to its foundations." Because he undercut it straightaway, in his very next utterance, and he spent five minutes yammering on about the succession, when there's a much more urgent problem coming up: how to get out of KL again.
And the whole bit of figuring out her succession before she even gets the throne is also making me give him the side-eye. I come from a very superstitious people - we'd be making horn signs (to ward off bad luck) and burning olive leaves (to ward off bad luck) by now.
Last episode, a poster reacted to Tyrion's "Daenerys will win this war" with 'oh, shit! She's totally gonna lose!" This week's pronouncement was: "If you die, we're all lost!"
My spec: Dany will die, but they won't be lost, because of Jon. That's why he couldn't ride the dragon in this episode. His becoming a dragonrider has to be a much more dramatic moment, and he has to do it in his own right, not as a companion with many others.
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7 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:
I wouldn't worry about Brienne being killed off, not before she can fight some White Walkers at least. She's a badass warrior woman armed with Valyrian steal, D&D aren't going to waste such an opportunity, especially as I think her mere presence will be enough for Jaime to break away from Cersei. She can talk some sense to him, and she is a reminder that he isn't utterly friendless and Cersei isn't his only ally.
From your words to the showrunners' ears! Jaime has been so blase about everything Cersei does, this season, and then Brienne was sent to KL, literal Pit of Vipers, and I got worried.
Re. Arya's satchel of faces (shudder) - I recognized the older one as being Walder Frey (and wondered why she got that with her. Is she going to be the new host of Punk'd: Winterfell edition? "I suppose you're all wondering what I'm doing here, so far from my home, in the house of my enemies . . . . psych! It's me, Arya!")
But the younger man - was that one of the Lannister soldiers from Episode 1? I couldn't tell, the angle was bad.
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3 hours ago, Pogojoco said:
Given Cersei's interaction with Brienne at the Purple Wedding, I think she'd kill anyone who she thought Jaime might respect, listen to or even love. It is a scene of remarkable shade and both Christie and Heady play it beautifully. Cersei starts very charming, shades her hard and then Brienne, sensing the direction this is going, books it.
This is exactly my worry.
After weeks of anger at Jaime's lack of redemption, and thinking that he'll never leave Cersei now that she's knocked up, I suddenly had a horrible thought.
I just couldn't understand why Sansa would send Brienne away, and no doubt we'll be given an in universe reason, but I just thought, what if it's a meta reason? On the show, Brienne is the only catalyst for redeemed Jaime. In the books we had him ignoring Cersei's letter, and beheading one of his soldiers for raping a camp whore.
But on the show, he's practically ignored everything that Cersei's done, up to and including using wildfire. So I have the horrible fear than Cersei will do something terrible and permanent to Brienne, which will be the one thing to turn Jaime against her. I feel like taking selfies with huge placards: Don't fridge Brienne for Jaime!! and sending them to D&D.
(I also think that's the way the books are headed, with Brienne sacrificing herself to Lady Stoneheart to save Jaime)
Re. The rest of the episode, I watched early (seems like every douchebag on YouTube put up spoiler videos, with spoilers in the title and in the thumbnail, so I gave up on Wednesday) and so I've already been through the 5 stages of grief for Viserion.
After thinking about it, I've decided that the NK was setting a trap - he's seen the dragons, and he wanted one.
I was really annoyed that instead of meeting at a neutral location, Team Dragon is actually going to Kings Landing. Why? Would you agree to that, Tyrion? Dammit. Just fly over, Dany, drop the wight, and book it.
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3 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:
That implies that Elektra has a personality. She doesn't. She's nothing. It's not just that she's poorly characterised - she isn't characterised at all . . . Her behaviour throughout most of this was inexplicable because she's a cardboard cutout. This is a really big problem in comic book adaptations because most female characters are barely drawn in other than "she's hot" and "she's dangerous" and "we love nun/whore dichotomies". But Elektra is the worst example of it. The worst.
That's exactly what I felt about Elektra; also, she bored me in DD2, and she bored me in the Defenders.
QuoteI still have no idea who she is or why she does anything.
You've pinpointed exactly what my reaction was to her, especially after she killed Alexandra. There I was, thinking, well that's a good power play. Good move. And then she's all: "I'm in charge! Let's go on with the plan!" And my reaction is WHAT??? And she's smearing the blood spray, like she's a zombie now and she likes it, and I don't know what the fuck is going on.
She wants the immortality juice, but why? You understand the others - Alexandra was dying, Gao was as old as dirt, and the other two were always doing risky shit. But no-one could even get close to her.
And she's the Hand now? They killed her, resurrected her as a killing machine, turned her against her friend(s), but that's ok because reasons? But she's still going to kill Alexandra because ???
If Matt survived, I'm sure she survived too. Sigh.
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19 hours ago, MissL said:
And I never finished Daredevil season 2 because ...I don't know maybe because Karen annoys me a little but really? Is she that awful about him not helping people on the show? Foggy too? That's ridiculous and heartbreaking for poor Matt. I DO NOT ship them.
I managed to finish it because I just followed the Punisher storyline, and just ignored anything to do with Karen (unless she was with Frank Castle), Foggy and Electra. Because yes, Karen and Foggy were that self-righteous and annoying.
Also, at one point during this episode I screamed at Karen to "shut the fuck up!" Seriously, she and Foggy became the annoying wife in so many cop/FBI shows, who knows what job her husband has when she marries him, but whines endlessly about him not being there for his family. Ugh.
And this show? "It doesn't matter that New York is going to be destroyed! Don't be a vigilante!"
Maybe that's why I really liked a character played by Jon Bernthal in season 2 of Daredevil, when I usually can't stand the actor. Everyone bored me, except the Punisher.
And in the Defenders, I liked Jessica, and Luke, and I've always liked Danny (yes, even on his own series) - but Matt and Elektra? Whatever.
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I'm curious about some lines they gave Jon this episode, and wondering if I'm reading too much into them.
First of all, when Jon argues in favour of him leaving, he keeps using the word "stranger" - "I put my trust in you, a stranger . . . trust in me, a stranger . . ."
It reminded me of Arya in Episode 1, when one of the Lannister soldiers said "my mother always told me to be kind to strangers, and strangers will be kind to you." It was obvious there that Arya was The Stranger, the Death component of the Seven. And there's a good argument to be made (I found an excellent one on youtube) that Arya did in fact kill all those Lannister soldiers offscreen, and we'll find out once she uses one of their faces.
But Jon, unlike unnamed Lannister
redshirtsoldier, doesn't follow the Seven. So maybe it wasn't meant that way?The second thing I'm curious about is his goodbye to Daenerys:
"I wish you good fortune in the wars to come, your Grace."
Now, I'm cribbing from a really detailed Tumblr post which analyses the use of this line, though I'd remembered one on my own, and the poster left one instance of this out. It's exclusively a show line, I think, and it's been used three times already:
Mance Rayder to Stannis (just before being burnt alive by him)
Ser Arthur Dayne to Ned (before they fight to the death)
Benjen to Bran (before Benjen leaves Bran at Meera at the weirwood tree, taking the horse . . . hey! WTF, Benjen?)
Now, the third use seems to break the pattern of it being said between antagonists, except if you take into consideration the fact that Benjen doesn't consider himself to be fully human anymore - he can't go through the Wall.
Usually, when we have repeated lines, they're always pretty important and show something about the speaker's character or thought process. For example, when Jon used the "Keep your shield up, or I'll ring your head like a bell" with Olly, we learn one season later that Ned used that line with his younger brother, so he must have used it with Jon. One season later we learn why Jon was so blindsided by Olly's betrayal: he was making the mistake of considering Olly something like a son / younger brother.
But why did they give this line to Jon, saying, saying it to Daenerys? Is it a hint that they might become antagonists, in the future?
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Here's a great interview with the writer for Eastwatch, Dave Hill: http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/13/game-of-thrones-eastwatch/
He clarifies a few points in the episode.
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6 hours ago, mac123x said:
My eyes rolled out of my head, across the floor, and into the dog's water bowl with that one. Just kidding - I don't own a dog. At this point I have to completely lay aside any characterization of Jaime from the books because other than being a blond Lannister, Show!Jaime bears little resemblance. He's never going to turn on Cersei now.
Yeah, my eyes were rolling, too. And that's what my first thought was - no redemption for you, show!Jaime!
5 hours ago, Kanner said:I was ok with the fast pace until this episode. There were so many good pairings I wanted more time with each of them. Maybe there will be some good convo during the hunt. Jon/Jorah about their dads, Gendry/Jon/Hound about Arya, Hound/Tormund about Brienne, Gendry/Jon about Mel, Beric/Jon resurrection, etc.
Jon and Drogon was awesome. And Jon is legitimate. Wow!
The talk with Tyrion and Varys wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, I still don't agree with them though. I can see Varys' issue with her burning people as just a really bad memory from his time with The Mad King.
The burning was not that bad either. She gave them a choice and Lord Tarly rejected the Wall option. Dickon basically walked into the fire on his own. It's war. All will suck.
As usual everything Davos is great.
I love it when Jon is kingly and he had great moments tonight.
Loved the scenes at Eastwatch. Great mix of characters. Can't wait for more of them next week.
The Winterfell scenes didn't bother too much. Finally after so long Littlefinger is being his Littlefinger self. I definitely think he was somehow behind the unrest of the Lords. I am not crazy about the Sansa/Arya tension but it is more realistic then them holding hands and braiding each other's hair. I have no doubt though that they will come out on top.
I agree with everything, especially Tormund's wistful "the big woman?" Seriously, Brienne, forget about Jaime. Useless, Cersei-whipped prick. And maybe it's 'too soon' for Jaime, but can't he see the fricking difference between a Queen who defeated him and his men with the weapons available to her, and a Queen who accuses everyone of betrayal, and wants to punish the guy who pushed him out of the way of a dragon? Whatever, Jaime.
5 hours ago, Willowy said:Why would Sam be angry or feel butthurt by his ragingly abusive father being roasted? He's seen and endured far worse and he's made far better/stronger relationships with Jon and Gilly than he ever had with that stiff-necked thistle-head. He may feel a twinge for his brother but it seems Dickon never really protected Sam from his mean dad... so fuck 'em.
[snipped for length]
Beric Dondarrion's voice makes me feel all melty.
Love the rag-tag band of not so merry men, but what is the plan exactly? To sneak up on the dead, then grab one and hightail it outta there? I don't understand their plan but if they pull it off I want them to turn it loose in Cersei's bedroom and watch her smug-ass face FREAK THE FUCK OUT before they charge in and rescue her.
Tormund Giantsbane is an adorable force of fearless nature Greek god Zeus made flesh. AND he's hilarious. "Did you bring the big woman?"
I was floored... like actually gasped at the beauty with which they are rendering Drogon. He is magnificent, and the way they are framing the shots of him are breathtaking. He had better NOT die. I'm now not so worried about there being poison on the spear as I was before, because Cersei would've gloated about it if there had been.
I'm so angry I have to wait a week for more. So much happened tonight, yet I'm like a bingey Netflix child screaming for the next episode.
Re. Tarly and son: yes. They made a choice, Dickon didn't have to join his father. The men Jon hanged in Season 6 (on short ropes - so they choked to death instead of a quick neck break) suffered longer than the Tarlys did. Yes, maybe she shouldn't have given them a public ultimatum which she couldn't have walked back, but that's Daenerys's way (I think it's the Dothraki way - she's at least got them to the stage where they're taking prisoners). As she pointed out to Jon, his armies killed thousands when they retook Winterfell. Stannis massacred the wildlings and burned Mance Rayder, yet he was still being called 'Stannis the Mannis' by his fans.
Also, Sam's dad forced him from his home on his 18th birthday, threatening to kill him if he didn't leave and renounce his title. The man threatened to kill him. The only reason he went back there was to try and find a home for Gilly and baby Sam, not because he had any affection for his father.
Oh man, that Drogon scene was fricking amazing. I can't think of anything else to say. Wow.
Re. the mission beyond the Wall. I don't know if it's a good idea or not - I can't decide. I mean, sure, Dany probably needs to see it with her own eyes. Cersei will absolutely not care, even if a wight can be taken South and still be all undead: who's to say that removed from the North it doesn't just fall to pieces? Also, the music over the end credits was White Walker / Night King music, which added to the general "I have a bad feeling about this" atmosphere.
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12 hours ago, SimoneS said:
OMG, that was hilarious. Leslie Jones is so funny. I think my favorite bits were that Bran is high, it wasn't a black family reunion, the white walkers were blue eyed devils i.e. white folks, her reaction to Conleth Hill showing up, her mimicking Drogo spraying fire at the Lannisters, and even the horses are like "I'm getting the fuck of here." I liked Seth Meyers getting into Drogon attacking the Lannisters.
I love how Conleth Hill plays along and answers all her questions as Varys, though Varys with an Irish accent is a bit disconcerting. Also, Sansa and Arya's re-imagined reunion was hilarious.
ETA - the Battle of the Bastards one is so hilarious, I've watched it so many times. I have so many favourites, her calling the music playing when Jon is stuck under the pile of people "that dying music", her glee at Sansa's 'lemonade smile', who she'd have sex with (the Blackfish: yes; muddy Jon Snow: sure, but not on the bed. She has nice sheets. Grey Worm? He doesn't have a penis!). Last one, I promise - singing Ramsay's come-uppance "I fucked up . . . I should have been so much nicer . . . to people . . . "
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2 hours ago, anamika said:
It was a thing of beauty to behold.
Watching Dany on Drogon go to work on those Lannister bastards was so fulfilling. The Dothraki screamers were amazing to watch. Brutal and efficient. Interesting to watch them go against a Westerosi army. We never got to see Robb's victories against the Lannisters in big battles like this.
Hardhome continues to be no.1 for me, but field of fire 2.0 comes a close second. It was awesome in every way except for the real endless plot armor that kept Bronn and Jaime alive. Why the hell were the Dothraki not trying to take down Bronn standing on his huge harpoon wagon?!
As for Cersei, Daenerys ambushes the convoy near Blackwater Rush - close to King's Landing. Hopefully Cersei saw all that smoke and smells the burnt flesh. I hope they discuss the loss of all that food. I hope she finally realizes what she's up against. If we don't see her shaken next episode, that's going to be disappointing.
Jaime looking at his men burning while a sad version of rains of castamere plays. Boo Hoo! Cry Jaime, cry! You have been shacking up with and supporting a sister who exploded the sept killing several hundreds. I don't see how anyone could feel sorry for them. They have been fucking people over for years. About time they get a taste of their own medicine. I actually wanted Drogon to burn Jamie. At least Cersei is self aware and knows that she's a monster. I dislike Jaime and his faux honor.
Yes, this. I can't believe how satisfying it was to me to watch Jaime get his. Because this was his fault, all of it. And no, I m not going to entertain for one second the 'poor Lannister soldiers, weep for them' bullshit. If the show wanted to do that, it shouldn't have shown (heh) me the previous episode - heaps of dead Highgarden people, concluding with an old woman being coerced to drink poison - and this episode, where I loathed everyone. Bronn laughing merrily over Dickon killing people he knew, Tarly wanting to flog his own guys, Jaime telling Bronn to go and brutalise the farmers until they gave up all of their food. I wanted everyone to die so badly.
And I'm putting everything on Jaime. Surely it's not a coincidence that he spent the previous episode saying Dothraki so many times I kept expecting someone to autotune it and set it to EDM. And fucking Tarly mentioned the dragons, ffs. Jaime knew, and let his brains be sucked out through his dick. Now he can live with all that on his conscience, if he can dig it out from wherever it's retreated to. I hope that that was one of the thoughts going through his head, along with oh shit oh shit I'm gonna dieeee.
2 hours ago, SeanC said:Those men who just sacked Highgarden and stripped all the food from the Reach, and have been laying waste to the Riverlands and everywhere else for several years.
Yes. It's a war. Jaime could have told Cersei he was going to take Highgarden and then sued for peace through Olenna. Tarly could have gone to Olenna and pledged to her. Those soldiers' deaths are on them, not the woman who they backed into a fricking corner.
2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:I surprised myself by rooting hard for Bronn's death. I know he's a fan favorite, and I find the character amusing and enjoy the actor. But his lack of loyalty to anything other than money never sat well with me. When he made light of an old woman's death (although I've never forgiven Olenna for setting up Sansa), I really turned sour on the character. Then when Dany and the Lannisters collided, all I could think is that Bronn will betray Tyrion. Topped off by the attempted assassination of Drogon/Dany, and I was cheering for his death.
And by the way, there's no way in hell Bronn would have risked himself for Jaime. Not without a pre-arranged agreement, and gold in hand.
And second by the way, other than the glorious outing of Olenna's part in Joffrey's death, why even kill Olenna? Balon Greyjoy wasn't killed after his rebellion. Olenna was an old lady with a conquered army. They would have stripped her of all her money and food anyway. I didn't care for Jaime's part in administering the poison, either.
So presumably, Jaime and Bronn will be POWs. I really, really dread any interaction between Bronn and Tyrion.
I agree with all of this, but especially the part in bold. Olenna even hinted that what they were doing was a mistake when she asked why Tywin never attacked the Reach, even though the gold mines were depleted. But she could tell that Jaime was too full of his own so-called success, so she dropped it.
56 minutes ago, doram said:Well, Aegon was a dude.
Cersei might be a woman but she's also Evil and Evil women are allowed to be powerful in stereotypically masculine ways.
Daenerys is a Good Woman and it's not acceptable that she's wielding this kind of power that is reserved for men, or a sign of being Evil.
Ergo - we wonder/worry that Daenerys is on a Path to Evil.
Misogyny 101.
Yes, this is starting to occur to me, sadly. The Dothraki and the dragons are the only weapons she has left, so of course she's going to use them. I'm already wincing in anticipation for all the pearl-clutching on online reviews, who were, last week, really enjoying Euron dragging three women on leashes across King's Landing as well as Cersei torturing Ellaria and Tyene (there was a lot of "sure Euron is evil, but he's got style! And I always hated the Sand Snakes!").
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15 hours ago, WebosFritos said:
I was trying to be funny, of course he's met the Starks. Tyrion is a good judge of character and yet he seemed surprised by Jon's reaction. Knowing what the Starks have been through, I thought he would be less confused by Jon's answer. He did ask Jon to bend the knee more than once, which puzzled me. But that's just my take on the scene.
15 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:Maybe he was just acting, for Dany, to cover up the fact that he didn't mention that "bend the knee" part in his Raven-gram to Jon.
I hope he was acting, though it didn't seem like it.
I think it was more that he left out the "bend the knee" on purpose, trusting that Jon could read between the lines and not come, because he knew that Jon was not the type to kneel. In fact, wasn't one of the first things he said to Jon that he never expected Jon to turn up?
Of course, Tyrion didn't know about the ice zombie apocalypse around the corner, and that Jon needs allies; winged, fire-breathing ones, to be specific.
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So, quite a few youtube reviewers have suggested that it's highly suspicious that Cersei keeps winning, and are suggesting that there's a spy/mole in Dany's camp.
Two in particular (New Rockstars and Secrets of the Citadel) are putting their (virtual) money on Missandei, specifically because of that weird little convo she had with Davos, which reminded us all that she's from Naath. Yes, her home is really beautiful and all, but it hides a horrible disease which kills all outsiders who try to settle there, and it's known as the "Butterfly fever". Now Secrets pointed to this as hinting that just like Naath, Missandei also hides mortal dangers under a beautiful, seductive appearance (forget about New Rockstars' reason - they're really disappointing this season).
Of course, now everything she's done seems suspicious - like sleeping with Grey Worm. We've already been shown that the Unsullied crave affection, and are especially vulnerable when they do so (the one who was murdered in the brothel). Maybe it was just a way to kind of destabilize Grey Worm, and find out exactly when he's leaving Dragonstone.
I also tried to think why she would betray Dany - is she one of the three betrayals Dany is supposed to suffer? There could be a reason in what Dany did in Meereen, or the fact that she kind of abandoned them and flew off with Drogon at the end of season 5. Missandei and Grey Worm were abandoned, left with Tyrion in charge, who was making agreements with slavers, and acting like he knew what they had suffered. IF Dany hadn't come back in the nick of time, she and GW would have been enslaved again. Maybe that was the last straw, for Missandei. Also, they love their ironic scripts and lines - Tyrion saying that she's Dany's "most trusted advisor", for example. Who better to betray Dany?
Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and Qyburn is just that good! But Varys used to be that good, too.
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3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:
There was no wool. There was no lining in the armour. And the way the way the conversation went, Sansa was reminding the Master of Arms that the armour needed leather when the "real Winter set in." He didn't say "oh, we only keep leather for the Lords but there's wool for the foot soldiers" or "that's what the wool is for". He went "Oh, yeah, that's a great idea, Lady Sansa! I'll get to it."
It had never even occurred to this seasoned Master of Arms to line the armour at all.
It's nice to show Sansa trying to do her best but when they need to make everyone else stupid to prop her up, it's ridiculous story-telling and personally, it threw me out of that scene completely.
Actually, this is the way the conversation went (just went back to watch it):
Sansa: "Are they covering those breastplates in leather?"
Royce: "No! My lady." (to me, the tone of Royce's voice and the expression on his face both show annoyance and surprise that this isn't happening)
Sansa: turns to Royce: "Shouldn't they be? Once the real cold comes . . . "
Royce: "They should indeed. Pardon me, my lady . . . " walks towards the blacksmith, says "You there . . ." and then Sansa and LF walk out of earshot.
What I saw - and I've watched the scene 4 times to transcribe the dialogue and get the expressions right - was that Lord Royce knew all about the leather, and he was pretty pissed off that his blacksmiths (because I've only seen the Knights of the Vale wear plate armor) weren't doing it, and were making him and his men look bad in front of Lady Stark. I saw no arrogance in Sansa's attitude - in fact she seemed to me to be massaging Royce's ego, saying everything in the form of a question, not a demand, because they weren't her men.
The episode as a whole:
It's made me turn against Jaime . . . completely. He just pissed me off so much, that I was happy Lady Olenna delivered a couple of burns on the way out ("You must be very wise," was my favourite). Why did he make me so angry? It was the way he was so smug about talking Cersei out of torturing Lady Olenna. He was just patting himself on the back for his magnanimity in not torturing or killing painfully an old woman who's lost everything and everyone. So I relished his pain when Olenna told him about Joffrey. And I don't want him to be redeemed. Fuck you, Jaime. If Barristan Selmy were still around, he'd be tearing Jaime's page out of the White Book and setting it on fire.
Remember your vows as an anointed knight?
“In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent. In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women . . . "
Nah, I didn't think so. Tosser.
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3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:
Jon is not a noble, which was @anamika's point.
Because Jon cannot claim power by right of bloodline, again because he's bastard-born.
Of course Jon is a noble - not being able to claim power by right of bloodline is a completely different issue.
Jon is the acknowledged bastard of Ned Stark, and so he has a surname (Snow) and is brought up in the lord's household on the same level as his legitimate sons. It was unusual, but not completely unknown: see Daemon Waters, later to become Daemon Blackfyre.
1 hour ago, Oscirus said:As Tyrion showed, that was all tied in together.
Yes - the only reason Jon could wipe the floor with them was that he got trained by Ser Rodrick Cassel, anointed knight and veteran of Robert's Rebellion, along with Robb and Theon. As Tyrion said, none of the other Night's Watch boys had ever picked up anything other than farm implements.
And yes, Jon turned up at Castle Black with a massive chip on his shoulder, became angry that he had been deceived as to what it's really like, and I'm sure felt quite superior to the other Night's Watch recruits at first. Then, because Jon is essentially a good bloke, and Tyrion set him straight, he realised his mistake and corrected it.
Even when he has his little chat with Melisandre in Season 6x10, we're reminded that Jon had a better life than most in Westeros and beyond - sure, he wasn't allowed at the big table, with the family, but he wasn't serving them! He wasn't a slave, like Melisandre, either. It was his choice to join the Night's Watch, like other nobles there - Ser Alliser Thorne, Lord Joer Mormont, Ser Waymar Royce, etc.
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1 hour ago, GrailKing said:
Tyrion is smart, read carefully the note: He's talking to Jon with respect, but at the same time letting Jon know that she has a army larger then his, has the Reach,Dorne, unsully's and Dothroki.
Sansa also picks up on it.
Jon also explained the last line so he knows it's Tyrion.
I can't see where I contradicted any of this.
And neither Jon, nor Davos, nor Sansa caught that Dany expects him to bend the knee - if they did, they didn't mention it, whether it was during the reading of the letter, nor when he told them he was going. Even when Sansa says that it must be a trap, he then still says that Tyrion can be trusted - and he can, except when Jon reaches Dragonstone, Tyrion will be slightly in disfavour (maybe?).
My point was this: Tyrion framed the letter as being 'come and be our ally against Cersei', rather than come and swear allegiance to your new Queen. He seemed to have been expecting that when Jon arrived, and Dany said "I thought I told you to write to him "bend the knee", Tyrion would be able to gentle her into accepting a king in a neighbouring kingdom. Because otherwise, it really is a trap, and Tyrion didn't play it that way.
However, he was expecting to still have his favoured position as the Queen's Hand and her chief advisor by the time Jon arrived - he will still be both, but after the disastrous plan to go back down to Dorne and get another army, which lost Dany her navy,she will not be as receptive to Tyrion's ideas as she was.
QuoteBased on this episode I think Olenna expected Dany to swoop in and blitz KL and Cersei quick. She wasn't too happy with the approach they ended up taking.
I suppose you're right, but it annoys me still!
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18 hours ago, Constantinople said:
To summarize
The first part of Tyrion's war plan failed totally
No one, including Varys, had any idea that Euron had visited King's Landing or was in the area. Nor did anyone know that Jon Snow was King of the North until Melisandre turned up.
Yara was caught by complete surprise while sailing to Dorne.
And this is Dany's A team
Yes. Exactly.
And, even though I enjoyed the episode, here comes the nitpicking.
I already had a problem with the fact that in Episode 1, Cersei's already got a map nearly finished and is ranting away, and Dany hasn't even arrived at Westeros yet - that she's landing on Dragonstone at the end of the episode. It reminded me too much of 6x10, where we have a montage of people getting dressed and putting on their finery (in the case of the High Sparrow, his best potato sack), but when we cut to Cersei, she's already dressed and has been for a while.
But I decided to reserve judgement - and in this episode, I'm judging away. See, I'd like someone to explain to me what the hell they were doing while Cersei was inviting Euron, having maps painted, calling in the banners, even from the Reach, etc. Specifically, Olenna. What the fuck, Olenna. In my fond mind, as soon as that Sept blew up, and the raven reached (heh) Lady Olenna, she planted herself in Highgarden and started calling in the vassals, or at least telling them to get ready for shit to go down. Then when I saw her in Dorne in 6x10, I added another image - her getting a message from Dorne, telling the lords she has to go down there to see what that bitch wants, and they should keep sharpening their swords or whatever.
But now, I find out that not only has she done nothing of the sort, her vassals are swanning off to King's Landing, listening to Cersei's pitch! It's all very well to tell Dany that she has to be the dragon, she has a fighting force and some families that owe her allegiance, and she's doing fuck all about it! See, if Olenna had consolidated her forces before leaving for Dorne, and told the lords of the Reach that same deal held as when they supported Renly, when Cersei sent her dumb letters they'd all have done the same as Jon did. I'm still hoping that Tarly just said what he had to say to get out of KL, and is still supporting Olenna - and there's no reason not to. Because the Reach doesn't need King's Landing, but the opposite isn't true.
Basically, I'm querying all of Dany's team's tactics. See, landing on Dragonstone was a mistake. The whole fleet should have sailed for KL, dropped off some land armies on the way (I hate the Dothraki, but why get them if you're not going to use them), so you're attacking from the sea, from the land, and from the air. Or how about this - night raid - dragon flies silently to the Red Keep, sets Cersei, the Mountain and Qyburn on fire - done.
But that ship has sailed (sorry). They lost the element of surprise the moment they landed on Dragonstone.
Tyrion's failure is also worrying me in another way. Dany told him to write to Jon and invite him to come and bend the knee. But Tyrion didn't put that in his letter - but the letter was written when Tyrion was Dany's bestest Hand ever. Now that the first part of his plan failed and lost them (part of) their navy, he's not going to be so popular anymore, and won't be able to do much for Jon.
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19 hours ago, Gertrude said:
What even grates more is that Sam already knew this information. Stannis told him at Castle Black and no one ever pumped him for info or acted on it. In this episode Sam even says that Stannis mentioned it.
This, along with Archmaester Jim Broadbent's words makes me even more suspicious of the whole Sam plot, and why it's there.
As you say, Sam already knew about the dragonglass at Dragonstone - and he says that Stannis told him; and that's the only thing he finds out after weeks or months at the Citadel? That's highly suspicious to me.
Secondly, we hear that he's talked to everyone who would listen, and plenty who wouldn't, about the Night King, and the White Walkers - no-one believes him. But the Archmaester does - except he also doesn't care. At the end of his speech to Sam, he adds the stuff about the Wall being protection enough, almost as an afterthought. But the real weight in his words is before that - he mentions so many disasters, says that 'we thought they were the end of everything, but they weren't'. But these events were disastrous for many: even something relatively minor (compared to the other events he mentions) like Robert Baratheon's death resulted in the displacement of populations, the destruction of the state religion (one of the things which struck me in the books was the many stories of septs being desecrated, septons and septas tortured and killed) and the breaking of the social contract.
The gist seems to be that as long as the Maesters have everything written down, it doesn't matter what happens to the rest of Westeros.
Also, let's say the only solution against the White Walkers is magic, and dragons - but in the books we have the Grand Maester conspiracy to wipe out magic, and dragons, so Sam is in exactly the wrong place to get any help against the Night King.
In fact, the only useful, new thing Sam learned that there is a 'Dragon Queen' headed towards Westeros.
Now this could be contradicted anywhere down the line, but I'm starting to see Sam being similar to books Brienne - going in circles, marking time, not achieving anything of what he's planned. I mean, sure, cleaning up feces and helping with autopsies is probably fine for entry-level trainee Maesters, but not what he came to Oldtown for.
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5 hours ago, TrueMyth said:
Hey, what do you guys think of Ko-Fi? I see some Arrow writers have opened accounts, and I'm really not sure what to make of it. On the one hand, there are totally writers who I would buy a coffee for, you know? I mean, mostly as an excuse to get them to sit in a cafe while I probe them with questions about their head canons and such, but I like the idea. On the other, I'm a long-in-the-tooth fangirl and I remember getting money for fic as kind of a bad thing. Thoughts?
Wow, this is the first I'm hearing about it! Yeah, I don't know. To me it's just another thing like Patreon - people trying to get paid for their hobbies / trying to turn something they enjoy doing into something that earns money.
The thing is - it's one thing getting money for content that you've unambiguously created, but fanfiction is still very much a grey area in terms of copyright, etc. There's still many people, including some fanfic creators, who think that writing fanfic constitutes copyright infringement - now this isn't the case, and AJ Hall (UK lawyer IRL, legionseagle on dreamwidth) once had a detailed, legal explanation why it isn't. However, once you bring money into it, things change - and not for the better for fanfic writers.
It's like the Kindle Worlds thing - sure, sign up with Amazon to get money for your fanfic. Signed up? Good. Now, you can't write anything erotic, you can only write in these specific fandoms, and by the way: we own your ass. Have fun with your dollar!
Also, some people are treating this like a gofundme, predictably enough.
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S07.E07: The Dragon And The Wolf
in Game Of Thrones
Crap, I keep forgetting about that. Maybe Bran is so super-three-eyed-raveny now that some of his memories have been erased to make up for new downloads.
Re. Jon's "real name" - I'm getting really annoyed at people on Tumblr going on about it being ridiculous that Rhaegar chose the same name of his dead son for his new son. Why is everyone assuming that only the dad gets to name the baby, rather than the woman whose body the kid just came out of? Sure, she's northern, but she seems to have drunk Rhaegar's 'Prince that was promised' Kool-Aid, and what better name for a boy with a DESTINY than to be named after Aegon the Conqueror? Ugh.