sugarbabex23

This episode was just bad. I don't know who wrote this but it was so boring that I zoned out of it.

I think the dynamics of the Winchester family would have been so much different if Mary had never died. I think that Mary would have acted as a support system for Sam (for both boys really) against John and he wouldn't have felt so lonely and ostracized. I think Sam growing up without a mother really affected his life (Dean had 4 years with Mary whereas Sam had none). Sam really had nobody in his corner during childhood. Something tells me that even though Dean and John were technically there for Sam, he still felt alone and like he didn't belong. I always felt like in the Winchester family, Sam was at the bottom of the totem pole and he was the outsider. Mary probably would have been the only one who could have made Sam feel like he was part of the family.

Agreed. Dean obviously took John's side in the argument. There's a reason why Sam avoided both Dean and John for all those years. Dean gave no implication that he took Sam's side in the argument.

Dean has serious abandonment issues that, to me, are a huge warning sign that he needs some serious therapy. He also seems to show signs of dependent personality disorder or borderline personality disorder. He simply can't take it when someone leaves him and he doesn't handle rejection very well. The fact that Dean thinks that Sam leaving to go to school and gain independence is one of the "worst nights of his life" is the epitome of overdramatic. I just simply don't understand how Dean operates when it comes to his relationship with Sam. It's beyond abnormal and alien to me. Maybe it's because I have a completely different personal experience. But Dean, particularly in the past seasons, can't seem to treat Sam as an independent person instead of one of his possessions (like his car or his guns, etc).

Agreed completely. This is why I have a hard time sympathizing with Dean when it comes to Sam leaving and going to college. No matter what, I'm definitely on Sam's side when it comes to the leaving for college over living a hunters life situation. Sam had a right to make those decisions. He was an 18 year old adult at the time and Dean and John were legally no longer responsible for Sam and could no longer make decisions for him.

Personally, if I were Sam, I probably would have cut contact from my family and wouldn't want anything to do with them. I think Sam's family were terrible to him and mistreated him in many ways. He was pretty much abandoned, lied to, John mistreated him and disowned him and Dean has also treated Sam poorly. I think Sam grew up in dysfunctional family and I do not blame him for running away from all of them. If I were Sam, I would run away too and I would be ashamed of my family.

You're right. Violation is a much better word. I agree with you and I apologize if I've offended anyone.

Maybe you don't like it because it puts Dean in a bad light? But the reality is, it's canon that possession is akin to rape on this show and nothing is going to change that fact in canon. You can disagree with the descriptor all you want. It doesn't change the comparison between possession and sexual assault/rape that occurred in canon on the show.

The possession that happened on the show can and has been compared to rape and sexual assault in canon on this show. There have been numerous people that have openly admitted that they themselves have been sexually assaulted/raped and they have said the same thing about possession on this show. The fact that people who have survived sexual assault and rape say that what Dean did with the angel possession is akin to sexual assault/rape says something. If I'm gonna trust the opinion of someone regarding possession on this show, it's those that have actually experienced violation of some sorts (and I've experienced sexual harassment myself).

The show itself has compared possession to rape. Please watch the show clearly. Possession is akin to rape on the show canonically.

I must be watching a different show because this fandom and the show constantly demonize Sam and always make him wrong while making Dean out to be a saint that can do no wrong.

Again, I respect your opinion but I disagree. There was nothing moral or right about the angel possession no matter what way you try to spin it. Possession on this show is akin to rape and what Dean did with the angel possession was essentially let an angel rape Sam mentally, spiritually and physically. I find what Dean did to be abhorrent and the most despicable action that any character on Supernatural has taken.

So much this! Thank you. What I said in an earlier post about those who have a preference for Dean not admitting when Dean screws up badly is playing out right before my eyes when it comes to the Gadreel possession. Dean calling Sam weak and pathetic for having mental illness and battling addiction is attacking actions? Dean calling Sam a monster and inhuman is attacking actions? Dean saying that if he didn't know Sam, he would want to hunt him is attacking actions? Denying Sam's agency with the Gadreel possession is attacking actions? Gas lighting Sam and lying to him about the possession is attacking actions? Making fun of Sam's mental illness when the wall had broken in his head against his will is attacking actions? Insulting Sam for having demon blood pumping in his veins (which was something that wasn't his fault) is attacking actions? I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. Dean has attacked Sam as a person on numerous occasions and he's done so without any supernatural influence or interference. The fact that Sam has normally both physically and personally attacked Dean when he was under supernatural influence (possession, demon blood addiction, soulless, etc) shows that Dean attacking Sam is way worse. Because Dean has attacked Sam and called him all those horrible things and said all those terrible things to him when Dean was completely, 100% himself.

That's what you saw from your perspective. That's how you perceived it. I saw and perceived what Sam said differently. It's no different from when Dean called Sam "weak and pathetic" for battling a serious addiction or calling Sam a monster or calling Sam abnormal and inhuman, or saying he would hunt Sam if he didn't know him. Those things are just as hurtful yet you don't condemn Dean for saying those horrible things to Sam? Why are you demonizing Sam for being angry and saying hurtful things to Dean while he's angry at him when Dean has said just as hurtful things to Sam at the same time when he's angry? That is hypocritical.

That's not what Sam said it all. Sam was criticizing Dean for constantly putting Sam before the greater good and how that leads to bad things. He was criticizing Dean for saying that he was in the right for having an unknown angel (which turned out to be bad) possess Sam without his true consent or knowledge which led to the unnecessary death of Kevin and many other issues. Sam wasn't saying that Dean was a horrible person who is a completely selfish person. He was criticizing Dean for his constant hero complex towards Sam specifically and how it causes many problems for both Sam and the world at large.