rtalive
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Posts posted by rtalive
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8 hours ago, Lokiberry said:
Sara was treated horrifically on Arrow, but since she came to LoT, she's received the best treatment of any female character in the flarrowverse. She's been given plenty of screen time. She hasn't been relegated to the role of love interest, or been defined by her relationship with a man. She's never been stuck in a love triangle. Her stories are about her; she's the hero of her own stories.
It makes sense storywise that there will be "tension" over command between Sara and Rip once he's back in his right mind. That's got to be hashed out, but there's no precedence on this show for Sara being diminished. Personally, I think it's unlikely that Rip will resume sole command of the Waverider. I just don't think we can go back to that. It'll either be a co-captaincy or Rip will decide to move to an advisory position.
"I also think that it will be a step back, if they revert to Rip being the captain. First: it will be repetition and second: him being captain was not really exciting story, he was quite boring one. I guess they have to give him more emotional brake down after he is saved, because of the things he has done. Like Sara felt she was a monster after her resurrection, he probably will be very drained emotionally and psychologically after what he did and also feel like a monster. Sara left Star city when she realized her sister took her place and Rip probably has to leave and try to recover.
I also love how you described Sara as her own character, I also love that about her, she was written like that from day one, when she appeared as Canary on Arrow. She had her own story and characters to support her, even Oliver was there to support her fights. She had this amazing interesting, intense story with the league and Nyssa. That is why she became my favorite female character, because she can be in relationship, but that does not define her, she had her own dark back story and own little universe of supporting characters and her own fights.
I still wish though she is more main now on Legends and we can see more exploration of her past. On Legends everyone is their own character, no one is there to support someone, so they are all equally main, so there is not much screen time to develop one character more than the others. That's why most of them are undeveloped and flat. Sara has her background from Arrow and has a lot of potential for interesting new stories and also exploration of her past, but they just don't do it, because she is not the main character, like Barry and Oliver are.
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On 1/27/2017 at 6:48 PM, ComicFan777 said:
I don't think Felicity cared about Billy as much as you would think. She cares about him probably as much as she cares about any of her friends. I mean, she even had trouble calling him her boyfriend. Billy was just a distraction from dealing with everything she has gone through.
I think his death was simply the straw that broke the camel's back after a long string of bad things that happened to her because of villain manipulation.
So Billy was just a casual sex for her, a distraction? Why she kept it a secret then? And isn't it unfair for him that she started dating him while she was emotionally unavailable? I still think that she was falling for him, but didn't want to admit it. The other confusing thing for me is - was Felicity jealous from fake Laurel? Does this mean she still have feelings for Oliver? Or she simply doesn't want him back, but does not want him to move on from her?
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I hope Nate and Rip are the one that leave the show for the next season. Nate is the worst version of Ray, almost identical in personality, but more arrogant, and Rip is whiny hypocrite.
I don't mind if Stain leaves too, although I like him, he gets a lot of boring stories, that I really could not care less.
I really like Amaya and I hope she stays and we see more from her. I also hope they bring in another female character. I also like Jax a lot, so hope he gets more stories next season.
For me this show would not exist without Sara, so she obviously won't leave.
What would be perfect formula for me is less main cast, a trio or may be four people and the rest are more background supporting characters.
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So this new promo looks amazing. I am really excited for the new Tina character. She looks bad ass and the show needs more female characters anyway. Hope she sticks around and fans didn't kill her.
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I am really confused by Felicity's feelings towards Billy too. It clearly seemed that she cares for him, because it was important for her, more than anything to get to Prometheus. He was not just a casual relationship. She was deeply hurt from his lost, more than she was hurt from loosing a friend.
But on the other hand she just can't admit that to Oliver, I guess she does not want to hurt his feelings, but he already knows, that she moved on, and that she cared for Billy. So what is so difficult to just speak to him and tell him that his pain towards Laurel is equal to her pain towards Billy and they should figure a way out to catch Prometheus and try redeem BS.
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On 1/19/2017 at 5:00 AM, Sakura12 said:
I don't understand Nate's purpose. They don't need a historian when they have Gideon and they certainly don't need a historian that doesn't seem to know or respect history. His steel powers are really not that useful. It is upsetting that Vixen isn't given more to do. She actually does have a useful ability. But like Kendra before her she seems to be relegated to love interest. While the new male character gets to be front and center for everything.
I do think we will lose Vixen next season and get another female character. Apparently you can only have two on these shows at a time. I expect Nate to stay and we'll also get yet another male hero to join the team.
I totally agree with you. First Vixen is way more interesting character, she has real powers, mysticism, and she comes from JSA. Her character has a lot of possibilities for story lines and to be more up front, opinionated, may be give advises to Sara or organize some mission. I am sure that she is probably master of disguise, and a very good judge of character, because of her close connection to animals, which are also very instinctive and intuitive creatures.
Nate on the other hand is a mediocre character with no substance. He is arrogant and foolish, acts like 15 years old. He gain his super powers by injection, no real struggle, no real development or crusade. He is also very unbelievable as a nerdy boy because of his looks. And I find it really degrading that he thought that helping the team with his knowledge is not heroic enough. He has to parade as a macho man in order to feel self confident. He is this boring stereotype but he gets front and central story lines and position in the show. Why?!
We need more female characters on that show with their own story lines. We need more female friendships. Girls that kick ass, are bad ass and have their own developments and struggles. I think 3 girls and 4 guys is a good balance.
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2 hours ago, kismet said:
Well if all else fails, they can just have Barry run really fast to fix everything. :)
I do understand your frustrations for trying to preserve the timeline and pre-existing canon. I don't think the writers necessarily care as much. Because in their minds they can fix it with time travel or BA's running. Get Amaya back to right timeline and simply have it be the Legends policy to not discuss it with Mari, and bam problem fixed.
I also do understand @kirinan frustration in having other shows' mythology & plot dictate the show I watch. I don't watch Vixen (nor do I plan to), but it's frustrating to miss certain stuff. I watch the other Flarrowverse shows to a certain degree. So I understand a lot or plot, but it is frustrating. Like losing Sara Diggle because of Flashpoint.
I do agree with you from your other post, that it is bad precedence to discard away heroines. Although, I do think the actress who played Mari passing on a more permanent live action gig is why they brought in Amaya. I do think TPTB were trying to preserve the character. By casting her grandmother and not recasting the entire role, they were able to salvage the character and the legacy. It is a little more honorable than just chucking away the whole concept or replacing her with another guy character.
I enjoy LoT, but I do think they need a better gender balance. For me Gideon does not count as a female. I would love to see another female being brought on, especially if they had a familial connection to the team. I think Stein's daughter would be a perfect option. I also think his wife or if they save Ray's fiancee. I would have said LL would have been a good option, but I honestly question KC's ability to act in a team setting. She does better with 1 on 1, not so much on the rotating team dynamic that LoT runs on. Also there is too much pre-existing drama between the Lance Sisters to make me want to watch that on regular basis.
Yes I am also frustrated about the gender balance too. We have so many male characters and only two female characters and one of them is basically on the background with no story and the other is more used for the action and rarely has more personal stories. On the other hand all the male characters have bromance stories and fooling around, which makes them so stupid and childish and really hard to care for them sometimes. Ray and Nate are so alike that I don't even see the point why both of them are on that show.
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God, why do people even ship this couple. I am so confused. He is this horrible boyfriend and yet people all over twitter want her back with him?!
As I see it from all the analyses how he strayed away and the whole son secret, Oliver wanted a way out, he is this man, scared of commitment. The whole 'will you marry me' was so unbelievable anyway. A guy like him would never propose after six months of relationship, especially when he knows that this girl is not going anywhere and is not in a hurry for marriage.
Felicity deserves better. Maybe she will find her committed, mentally and emotionally stable man after all, if the writers decide to let her really move on.
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On 1/13/2017 at 10:07 PM, statsgirl said:
No doubt he believed he was helping Felicity by going after DD.
But we never got Felicity's POV. Maybe what she wanted was Oliver to be beside her as she went through her surgeries and listened to all the doctors telling her it was permanent. Felicity supported Oliver spending his time looking for DD because that was the only choice she was given and she loved him enough to put his needs above hers, even though by any measure hers should have come first at the time.
Which just makes Oliver's BMD lies and disregarding of Felicity's needs all the worse since we just saw her put his needs ahead of hers
Between his selfishness in 4B and the ending of 5x09, they're making it very hard to root for Oliver.
I re-watched the episode 4x10, because of all the discussion how Oliver puts his needs above hers and there were 5 scenes with him in the hospital: two scenes with him and Felicity alone, one with Laurel, one with the mother outside and one in the beginning of the episode. Just saying. I don't know what exactly people expect to see from that show.
But again even if we put aside my believe that Oliver was actually very supportive and perfect boyfriend to Felicity, more than any guy I know in reality, and the fact that he treated Laurel worse, I will agree that Felicity's story suffers because of his.
The moment they broke up she began to have real story, which was only about her and not about him. So as her fan I am happy she is no longer in relationship with him, not only because it seems he does not treat her well, but because now she will have the chance to develop more as a character.
And I like him alone too, because I am kind of tired of him apologizing and feeling unworthy of someone. I hope he regains his self esteem.
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Well for the argument who is the better leader, I think if we put that aside, because everyone has his/hers favorite, we all can agree, I think, that being a captain is something a person should acquire by qualities and work and once you stepped down from the position, due to what ever reasons, you don't just take it back, because it used to be yours. What I mean is that Rip is no longer a captain, just because he was once, does not mean he can't have successors. So now it is Sara, so I don're really see a reason, why she should give up the position to someone, who previously occupied it, but no longer does, when she proved herself as a good captain.
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1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:
I get why too -- it's because Oliver is a dude who really man pains a lot. He literally doesn't have the coping mechanisms to deal when bad things happen to people he loves. Sitting and holding someone's hand is putting one's feelings aside to support their loved ones. Oliver sucks at doing this big time.
And hey, he man pains a lot because of the 5 years of hell. His man pain is totally explainable by his experiences, when he should've been going into adulthood and learning to cope with tragedy in a normal human way, instead of a soldier/survivor way. But it shouldn't be justifiable, "oh, siting and holding someone's hand is just not who he is". That is saying that it's all right for Oliver to put his feelings above the person he should be sitting beside and holding hands to.never said that, i am not saying he was right, just saying that this is part of his personality, he believed he was helping her by being out there on the street trying to stop Darhk. In the end a story will not be interesting if the protagonist is perfect.
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8 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:
He was with Thea and Laurel every time they were in the hospital.
Laurel was in a hospital? Or you are saying when she died? Yes he was there. I had other moments as an example, but I guess, overall I mean, he just reacts like that, irrationally. He was out there on the street because he thought that this is what he should do to help her, stop Darhk.
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6 minutes ago, squidprincess said:
He didn't "abandon" his mission or his ship. We don't know exactly what happened between piloting the ship in the path of a bomb to save New York City in 1942, but it's pretty clear that if he's been "reprogrammed" by the bad guys, it wasn't a willing situation.
There is NO indicator that Rip Hunter has ever wanted a "normal life". That's never been part of his personality. Even when he had a wife and kid he was a Time Master. And, considering that he was at the Time Masters' orphanage at ten years old, it's probably fair to say being a Time Master IS his normal life.
And that ties in with the initial quest. Rip is the one who wants to replace the Time Masters. He recruits the others, but the only reason they're emotionally invested at all in the quest is because of him. Sara says it herself, in Compromised, she agrees with Jax, but they have to preserve the timeline because that's what Rip tasked them to do. Even then, Sara ends up risking the timeline herself by taunting Darhk with future knowledge. It's understandable why she did it, but that's not preserving the timeline.
The ship absolutely belongs to Rip, if it belongs to anyone. He has piloted it for thirteen years. He's the one who knows the ins and outs. Furthermore, Gideon probably has a say in the whole matter, and Gideon has been his partner for about that long and willingly turned traitor against the Time Masters with him.
And I think it's interesting that you'd say that Sara has the "biggest experience". How exactly? Ray, Martin, and Jax have traveled just as long as she has. Mick, as Chronos, actually has more experience than any of them (arguably more than Rip himself, though I doubt his goes into academic theory at all). Rip is the actual Time Master (and has been DC comics' flagship time travel character since 1959.) Martin's got the most academic knowledge. Jax has the most experience with how the ship actually runs. Amaya may have more experience as a legitimate superhero. Sara's the best leader, but that's different criteria entirely.
There are a lot of ways that Sara could stay a captain or a co-captain of the crew, but Rip will never just be "one of the many guys".
About Rip it was just the way I interpret his actions and what happened. If I remember correctly he wanted to die in the end of s1 and went straight to the sun, but changed his mind (i can be wrong, because it was long ago i watched that episode), so this suggests that his mission is over, once he killed Savage and could not save his family.
Now in the beginning of this season he sent everybody to some specific timeline and had specific plan for himself, which we will find out probably in the next episode. My speculations are that he on purpose erased his memories so he can live a normal life, but it can be something else.
Sara has the best experience as a leader because she of her past. Nate is just historian turned superhero with an injection, Ray is silly scientist with big ego, Stain proved to be incompetent in battle, Jax is too young, Mick is an antihero, Rip is a selfish leader who brought all these people for his personal vendetta and lied to them. In the end it proved that most of his decisions were wrong.
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12 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:
I don't have a specific problem with Oliver's man pain while Felicity was in the hospital. I was way more bothered by the lack of POV about what Felicity was going on while we were shown consecutive stunt sequences of anonymous men being punched by Oliver.
But at least at no time did the narrative try to paint him as doing the right thing. The story treated it AS man pain. Small silver lining. Everyone was telling him to stop being a dumbass and go see Felicity, and at the end he copped out to being wrong -- he even called in inexcusable.
The larger problem is that at this point, Oliver was already deeply infected with Baby Mama Drama disease. And because it's crazy bananapants to ask the poor viewer [me] in the audience to compartmentalize my feelings about previous super shitty happenings, what happened was that I wasn't just going, "man, Oliver, stop being a dumbass and go sit in a uncomfortable chair to support Felicity". I was going, "OLIVER, YOU'RE ALREADY HIDING A DEMON SPAWN FROM FELICITY AND NOW YOU'RE NOT EVEN THERE WHEN SHE COMES OUT OF SURGERY? ARE YOU THAT MUCH OF A MORON? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?"
Because the Baby Mama Drama ruined everything.
I don't like the baby mama drama too, poor writing, forced plot lines. There were so many more interesting and not forced possibilities to separate the couple if they wanted to.
But in a way I get it why Oliver was not on the chair next to her, although he was in the end, so he redeemed himself. I think, this is who he is, and the writers wanted to be true to his personality, he is not a man that sits and holds someone's hand. He goes out there and beats people up. He didn't went to Tommy's funeral, his mother funeral, he was not there next to Laurel or Thea for their losses.
He was never perfect boyfriend, never perfect at dealing with relationships, pain and loss. He is very conflicted, flawed, dark man. And I like that about him, it makes it more interesting to explore his development.
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1 hour ago, squidprincess said:
I wouldn't read too much into it. It could be a flashback to how he ended up mind-scrambled. Or it could be that they trade off who sits in the Captain's chair. It's still Rip's ship and quest after all, even if Sara's better at leading the others.
(I still think the ideal resolution is either a straight co-captaincy, or a set up similar to Nate and Sophie on Leverage after his time in prison. He was still nominal leader, but Sophie had at least as much actual power over the group when she cared to use it. I think that dynamic could work here too.)
I hope it is a flashback. I don't think it is his quest and ship anymore, because he abandon it and the mission. I think he wanted to leave and have a normal life. The Legends now are more of a democracy with Sara having the final word as the person who has the biggest experience. I think the quest now belongs to all of them, not just Rip, he is just one of the many guys there.
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2 minutes ago, CooperTV said:
You can't actually show someone else's emotions about things that should matter to a completely different person. Or, I mean, you could (and Hollywood likes to do that a lot with their white male protagonists) but it's essentially done via erasing characters' agency and also erasing them as individuals from narrative that belongs to them by right.
Felicity's disability and her being hurt is not about Oliver and his feelings. It's about Felicity and her feelings. She was hurt. She was struggling with reality of never being able to walk again. But nothing that would show us her POV was ever shown in that episode. She was a subject to Oliver's suffering. And even in the hallucinations episode Felicity's struggle was more of a"What could I bring to the team/Oliver now?", not "This is awful situation and I want to scream".
Oliver killing Felicity's boyfriend is not about Oliver and his feelings. It's about people who was hurt by Oliver's mistake because their loved one were killed.
I agree, it is not about him, I get that now. Yes I would have totally liked to see Felicity screamed when she was injured. It was really stupid when they made that again about him feeling guilty.
Loosing Billy is also something for Felicity too, but I think at least they will giver her that.
And this conversation now made me thinking that I was really annoyed in the beginning of the season how Felicity was suggesting a new team not as an equal partner, but as a person who just gives advice to Oliver, in a way it is his team, his decision, him moving on, not something they as partners should decide together.
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24 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:
It's used in real life too. And it's not about men feeling shitty -- it's about them putting their feelings ABOVE the feelings of the person who suffered. This is SUPER COMMON in real life. It's the guy who starts drinking heavily to numb his feelings after his girlfriend gets sexually assaulted. It's the guy who rejects his wife after she has a mastectomy, because her having boobies is more important to him than her having had to go through it. It's the guy who punches his daughter's boyfriend when the kids have a fight, because how he feels about the boyfriend is more important than how his daughter feels about her boyfriend.And it's Oliver when Felicity was laying in a hospital paralyzed and he refused to be there for her. At that moment, Oliver was incapable of letting go of his feelings of rage and revenge. He put those feelings HE was feeling above being there for Felicity. And he probably rationalized it that being there for Felicity meant sitting in uncomfortable hospital chairs for hours doing nothing, so if at least he was out there looking for DD he was ~doing something~, but he chose to deal with his feelings instead of being uncomfortable while showing support for his fiancée. That's man pain.
I understand that now, thank you.
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16 hours ago, Trisha said:
Well, before that tweet she tweeted this, which seems pretty innocuous as well. I mean, I know it angered shippers but she's just sharing an article about SA talking about her character. I didn't get why people would be upset with her over SA's quote.
She also made a misstep (in the fandom's eye anyway) with this one, which she apologized for:
I dunno, I've always really liked her and am giving her the benefit of the doubt. I've followed her for years and she's never really posted anything that's offended me (before her Arrow days or during it).
She is cute, I also like her and her character, hope to give her more screen time and development. I don't see anything offensive, she seems like nice person with sense of humor.
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On 1/11/2017 at 6:27 PM, CooperTV said:
No, manpain has specific definition, which is when a character's feelings, his emotional responses to anything surrounding (as those characters are usually white men or white men in position of privilege), his struggle are valued more by narrative than feelings, emotional responses or struggles of everyone else (usually women, minorities, children, etc). Characters with manpain are shown to be prioritize their angst over someone's suffering. Examples to manpain are:
a) "my wife was raped, whatever shall I do, I feel so much pain and anguish, how will I cope".
or
b) "my fiancee was paralyzed by an evil man, my enemy, I'm going to smash some evil dudes heads together because that makes me feel better, and my paralyzed fiancee will say it's okay for me to go AWOL at this tiring time for me";
c) "I accidentally kill my friend's and ex-fiancee's boyfriend, whatever shall I do, how one person can suffer so much in their life, I can't deal with this feelings anymore, I'm gonna have sex with that lady I first met five minutes ago to make myself feel better".
Ok , so if a white man feels shitty about something bad, that happened to a person, who he cares about, it is a man pain. I am sorry, but this is really difficult for me to understand. Is this just a slang for movies, tv, books or it is used in real life situations too.
Because if this is just in the entertainment area, I guess when the main character is a white man, it is understandable to show his emotions and reactions over what happened. I assume people are frustrated, that the white man is the main character and that his emotions matter more than the emotions of the other characters. But that's always been the situation in Arrow. Oliver Queen's feelings were always more important over Laurel's, Sara's, Diggle's, Roy's, Thea's and so on. Honestly I also would like to have a DC comics based show with a main female character, hope one day they make one.
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19 hours ago, Proteus said:
New trailer focused on Rips return:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheCW_Legends/status/819604870428704768/video/1
There is a glimpse of Rip on the captains chair, does this mean, that he will take Sara's place as a captain, or I am seeing it wrong. To be honest after that article about Legends and feminism, that Marc Guggenhaim posted, it would be so strange to make a move like that. I mean Rip sure was their captain, but he lost that position, I don't see a reason why he should take it back.
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4 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:
Oliver should be torn up after killing an innocent man. He should be able to wallow in his feelings.
In Season 3 all Oliver cared about was Felicity's happiness. So I am to believe that Oliver would not want to make sure Felicity is at least not alone. If anyone should know what she is going through it his him. Look at all the people he has lost. People have been there for him so that he doesn't go to that dark place that he struggles with.
It may not be his responsibility but he loved her once deeply so you would think he would want to make sure she is not alone.
I put this all on the shitty writers. This is why Felicity needs a friend. There really is no one she can rely on.
Why grieving alone is such an awful thing. People grieve alone. And why people are bothered only that Oliver didn't call, why not Thea or Diggle, before being arrested. Besides he thought that the last thing she wants is him at that moment.
And people should have in mind too, that Oliver was never written as a perfect person, he was intended to be very flawed from the beginning. He is some kind of anti hero. I think that some people think that he should evolve, and I do believe he did change for the better, but this season they are reversing him a little back to his old habits.
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18 minutes ago, CooperTV said:
I know the writers are convinced we haven't seen enough manpain from Oliver after all those years or non-stop manpain but maybe they should ease up on that a little bit?
Well I guess it is never a win win situation. If he has emotions, for some it's man pain, if he does not, for others it is insensitive. If he calls Felicity, for some it is stoking her, if he does not, he does not care for her and so on.
Maybe they should write him off, and does not bother us with his stories of man pain, other romances, and vigilantism ;) ;) ;)
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4 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:
Oliver can kiss whoever he wants, but I take issue with the timing - I don't understand how Oliver was able to make-out with Susan right after killing a good guy - not only that, but a guy that was important to someone he cares about.
When Roy accidentally killed a cop because of mirakuru, he checked up on the cop family from afar. If Roy can do this for a stranger, I would expect some show of this degree of concern/remorse from Oliver, since Felicity is actually his friend.
I am sure we will see Oliver blaming himself and mourning for Billy in the future episodes, this is too soon to judge him.
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I think he cares for Felicity, just because he is not there with her does not mean, he does not care for her. Besides he feels guilty for the kill, he pulled the trigger. He has to be the last person she wants to see right now. I don't know if you guys can imagine the situation, but it would look so bad if he was there with her. And after all, the man has to live his own life and move on. He puts everybody before him all the time, maybe there are little moments, where he does thinks for himself and he seeks a different friend than the team. He sees Susan as a friend, so it is not so bad he goes to her. He is a human being after all, most people move on sooner than him, Felicity for example.
Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread
in Arrow
The thing is that people have different point of views based on their different personalities and experiences and whether we like it or not based on sex. A lot of women are on Felicity's side and most men are on Oliver's.
Me personally I am a woman, but I am on Oliver's side merely, because I have been on his position. Two people are there in the relationship together and share one path, but each one of them still remains independent individual with having things that are just theirs. IF one of them decides that they want to deal with things that concerns just them, it is their right. A secret is awful thing only if it directly affect the other one. It's like trying to top a really high steep pike in a mountain, you go there with a partner and you are both tied with a rope, so your life depends on them, but in the end every step you make further depends only on you, you make the decision where to put you leg next, if you slip you partner can hold you and pull you back or fall with you, or just cut the cord and let you fall. Oliver didn't ask Felicity about his son, he didn't share with her about this step, he was going to make and he slipped, what she did is to cut the rope.
This is one of the things that made me stop shipping the couple. The other is that they took this awesome female character, that was so precious and so unique on her own and turned her into mere love interest. She was there to create conflict and divide the fandom. And she still divides the fandom, based on the stories they give her. Before she was like Diggle, a partner, a friend, there to be a hero on her own, like with the Slade thing. She was more interesting than Diggle, but Diggle got his stories who are solely for him and she became supporting character of drama and relationships. I agree that Oliver is really not a relationship material for more than one reason, but that is why his love drama should have been with people outside the team or with a character that does not inspire drama and has her development outside the relationship.
In recent interview Amell said the couple broke because of lack of trust. Well if those two never became more than partners than this would have never been the case. They both trust each other with their lives but broke up because of lack of trust. Where is the common sense here that I have to root for that couple.