[S07.E13: Their Last Bow]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Jake could easily have written as the typical "man-boy" who never grows up or takes responsibility for anything.  But even before his relationship with Amy started, we could see that he took his job very seriously (for all his jokes).  Amy could easily have been written as the upright shrill "by the rules" woman.  But they went against stereotype and wrote these two as people who REALLY "got" their partner (their gifts to each other are always so perfect).

I'm 50/50 on Mike Shur.  I loved The Office and love B99, but couldn't stand P&R, and the ethics of The Good Place (Tahani is in The Bad Place for.. being bullied?  Doing good things for a "bad" reason?  I don't know -- the episode that showed her life put me off a show I was al;ready teetering on.)

One of the major problem this Sherlock has is that, to a certain extent, he still loves Adler, even as he detests Moriarty.  

I think this Sherlock and a male Watson would have been very much like every other version we've seen (save for cries for them to be romantically or sexually involved, since now  two attractive men can't be in a show without one or both being gay).  I'm very glad they gender-bent (and race-bent) Watson.

Inconceivable!!!

Oh, yeah, The Good Place definitely had its issues as far as ethics and the rules of who got into the Bad Place and why, but I feel like they did a fairly good job of questioning/addressing that later on. (Your wording made me think you quit watching the show--sorry if I'm wrong about that!--so I don't want to get too into it, plus I know it's considered off topic in this thread!)

Yeah, I think the argument can definitely be made that part of him is still stuck on the idea of Irene, of who he thought she was, even though that person never really existed.

It's interesting because I'm not sure if that semi-romantic-whatever-depending-on-interpretation vibe would've still been there if it were two guys. I feel like the dynamic here is different than the other adapatations I've seen, and I don't know how much of that is based on gender or if it's just the way these specific writers chose to write these versions of the characters and it would've been the same if they'd both been guys. It actually kind of makes me wonder if they would've gotten them together since as far as I've seen, Rob Doherty seemed to want to go against what was expected with the characters, and just as this type of relationship between male/female characters is rare, a show where the two main male characters are in a relationship is also rare (or non-existent, I can't think of one although maybe there's one I don't know of), and I totally get people wanting more LGBT representation, but I guess we'll never know! (And I'm afraid this is getting off topic again since it's based entirely on a hypothetical situation!)

Ha, well hopefully my ramblings are at least semi-interesting!

[S07.E13: Their Last Bow]

To the people who mentioned House, I thought that as well but completely forgot about it in my massive last post. I wondered if the cancer diagnosis was maybe a reference to that show, although it ended much differently.

On 8/18/2019 at 9:56 AM, Clanstarling said:

@marina707, I was going to quote you and add my two cents - but then I realized you said everything I might have said, but better.

Thanks, but I'm sure everyone would be interested in your thoughts if you feel like sharing them! 🙂

21 hours ago, mandigirl said:

My favorite moments were definitely Sherlock finally meeting Arthur, the Cpt Gregson scene and the heartwarming ending scene. Never shipped them, but IMO the writers did give a nod to the shippers at the end with Sherlock and Joan negotiating child care like a married couple, the soul gazing and of course then that perfect final line which is somewhat gray in the best possible way.

It's interesting because it's certainly possible to interpret certain aspects of the relationship as romantic. That whole "I'm so glad I fell into your orbit" scene comes to mind, and I think I said in a post on an episode last season that I felt like there was a romantic sort of undertone to the relationship, it's just not in a conventional/traditional sort of way. I was thinking about how everything was always "we" and "our" with them (like the "do we still own a shovel?" line in the finale just as one example, and the discussion early in the season about whether or not they were going to stay in New York or go back to London, but there have been multiple similar lines throughout the show), and in a lot of ways they were like a married couple. Like I mentioned earlier, the way their relationship was treated as basically the same as the Captain's marriage in that conversation Sherlock had with him, and then if you throw in a kid... There's definitely more intertwined-ness and commitment to, essentially, having a life together that most people don't do with people who are "just" friends, which I can definitely see being interpreted as romantic (people have different ideas of what constitutes romance, and whether or not sex is a requirement, so I can see how there's a bit of room for interpretation depending on your own personal definition of those types of things).

Also, I found another interview with Rob Doherty that had this quote: "Sherlock had certainly emphasized he wasn’t [meant to be a parent], more than once. But it’s one thing to say all those things and it’s another for your partner to come home with a child one day" which I found interesting and seems to fit in with that kind of partners/sort-of-a-couple/sort-of-romantic-but-definitely-not-in-any-typical-sort-of-way dynamic and points to (at least in my interpretation of it) them raising Arthur together, which I know a lot of people had wondered about.

So I don't know, I agree that there's definitely a lot of gray to the relationship because it doesn't fit neatly into any specific box and it's kind of hard to define/categorize. It's kind of in between friendship and romance (at least if you judge by how those things are typically portrayed in media). However you interpret it, though, to me at least it's super interesting just because it's so different than anything else in media (and of course the actors played a huge role in how the whole dynamic came across).

19 hours ago, roseha said:

It occurs to me that Gregson asking Sherlock about the one person he loves points out the difference between love (for Joan) and what was an obsession for Moriarty.

Good point! That's basically the way I see it, although put in a much more succinct way (brevity is not my strong suit, clearly!)

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

1) Brooklyn 9-9 isn't a "procedural" but they bypassed the "will they/won't they" by having the romantic couple solidly (and fabulously) in love by the second season.  This show should be the "anti-Moonlighting" of how to write a romantic pairing.

2) It could be both: Watson is The Most Important Person, while Moriarty remains The Woman -- the only one Sherlock has romantic feelings for.

Yes! I love B99 too, and that's one of the few romances on a show I watch that I think is really well done and not too cookie-cutter/predictable or just lazy/badly written (I love the main romance on The Good Place as well so maybe I just like the way Mike Schur does romance! I've also heard good things about the ones on Parks & Rec though I haven't seen it).

I think I was kind of conflating the two in my head because I feel like before Watson came along, he was singularly focused on Moriarty and she was both The Woman and The Most Important Person, but then eventually Watson replaced her as the person he cared about the most.

It makes sense what you said, though, that Moriarty would be The Woman because she was basically just the love interest before becoming the villain/adversary, while Watson's role in his life ended up being larger than that (and gender wasn't really relevant with her) so I guess Most Important Person fits better (although I am curious what the relationship between this Sherlock and a hypothetical male Watson would've been like, and if/how the dynamic would've differed).

Now that I think about it more, though, calling either of them The Woman seems pretty insulting when you consider where that title originally came from. (It's been a really long time since I read any of the ACD stories, but unless I'm remembering wrong, Irene was called The Woman in the story because she was "remarkable" for being able to outsmart him because obviously women weren't smart and when one was it was unusual and needed to be pointed out as some rare thing that hardly ever happens.) That's a whole different subject, though, and maybe I'm overthinking it.

And...I need to stop, I've gone on way too long again!

[S07.E13: Their Last Bow]

I wasn't quite sure what to think in the beginning since my favorite part of the show has always been the main characters' relationship and they were apart for so long and weren't on the greatest of terms at the beginning, but I ended up loving it. I was surprised about the existence of Arthur because between interviews with the showrunner and a line from Joan in an episode this season, I thought they'd changed their minds about her having a kid, but I like the idea of the three of them being a happy little non-traditional family. And I loved the end, that they're going to continue having adventures and solving crimes even though we won't get to see it. I'm really going to miss this show.

On 8/16/2019 at 3:15 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Even though it might not be a romantic one, I'm glad Gregson used to word "love" to describe what Sherlock and Joan feel for each other, because that really is what they have.  Again, it might be different from the norm (for TV land, at least), but it truly is an unbreakable bond between the two.

Definitely. I thought briefly during that conversation that they were going to end up going the romantic route, given Gregson's (paraphrased) "what did I do? I married her" comment, but I'm glad they didn't, and I loved that their relationship was treated in that conversation as equally as important as Gregson's marriage.

On 8/16/2019 at 10:34 AM, EAG46 said:

It was a good ending, and important to show two people that love each other without it being romantic or sexual.  Thank you CBS and show people for keeping it that way.

Absolutely. This type of relationship is so, so rare in media and I love that they kept it true to what it was up through the end. I don't mind romance (at least well-written ones; there are far too many predictable, lazy, cookie cutter ones out there) but I love relationships like this and they're almost non-existent in media.

On 8/16/2019 at 9:29 PM, possibilities said:

I actually thought they left the ending ambiguous about the nature of the Holmes-Watson relationship-- all that gazing into each others' eyes and then him taking her hand. I preferred them as partners but not lovers, but I thought they did toss a fantasy hint to shippers who wanted that, while still not breaking their promise to the rest of us.

I thought he took her hand, too, and also thought they were trying to be ambiguous, but I noticed when watching the second time that he just briefly touched her arm and then let go; you can see that their hands aren't touching when they're walking (at least if you're talking about the scene at the end in the police station, if you're talking about a different one I missed it entirely!). But yeah, I agree with the "partners but not lovers" thing. In the interview with the showrunner I link below, the interviewer describes them as being "a couple without being romantic" which I thought was an interesting characterization.

On 8/17/2019 at 5:24 AM, Alistaire said:

I don’t understand the hostility—true animus—not to mention energy expended on rejecting Elementary as a love story in the traditional sense of the word. The online obsession with two people NOT being in love strikes me as pathological specifically because it overlooks exactly what you cite. The type of obsession started probably with The X Files; it simply was not a “thing” before the internet.

I wouldn't call it hostility or animus (and certainly not "pathological"). I think it comes more from frustration at the way media has for so long operated under the assumption that if they're telling a story about strong feelings between a man and a woman, they must be romantic. Like multiple other people have pointed out, this relationship was completely unlike anything else on TV.

I understand that for people who love romance, it might be annoying that they didn't go that route, but there are so many other shows out there where things turn romantic between the male/female leads (and even in the same genre--pretty much every procedural show with male/female cops/detectives/whatevers [who are both single and interested in the opposite sex] has relied on a 'will they/won't they' dynamic between the two; this is literally the only example I can think of where they didn't).

Also, I don't consider it to be people "rejecting" the story as a romance or "being obsessed with them not being in love", that's just acknowledging the reality of the relationship as it was written. The showrunner has been clear about that from the very beginning, and reaffirms it again in this article.

And people valuing platonic relationships before the internet absolutely was a thing, but the internet gave people a place to talk about it (as well as talk obsessively about all other aspects of TV shows!). Plus in the last few years the sheer amount of shows has grown exponentially (due to Netflix and other streaming services developing their own content) but there are still very few strong platonic male/female relationships, so the people who value those types of relationships are obviously going to be frustrated by the lack of them.

All that said, I DO consider the show to be, at its core, a love story (just as I considered X-Files to be even before the relationship between the leads turned romantic; as I consider Supernatural to be [at least assuming nothing major has changed within the past couple seasons as I'm a bit behind on that show]), it's just not a romantic one (at least not in the traditional/conventional sense; people's definitions of what's considered 'romantic' vary).

On 8/17/2019 at 5:54 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

Sherlock is not merely a one-woman man; he is thoroughly, notoriously, and eternally so. There is only "The Woman." And Joan Watson knows it.

I know you're talking about Moriarty, but I've felt since the first season finale that Joan has essentially replaced her as The Woman to Sherlock (or not even necessarily as The Woman because that title seems to focus, at least in my interpretation, on her gender/status as a love interest, but rather Most Important Person). Obviously in an entirely different way as the types of feelings he had for the two of them were very different, but I felt like his feelings for Watson had definitely become stronger by the end than his feelings for Moriarty had once been.

8 hours ago, Calvada said:

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by guessing about the nature of their relationship, but to me it was a friendship, a partnership, which developed into a deep love for each other.  But always a platonic love and for me, there were never any indications it would be anything else, which is one of the reasons I so enjoyed the show.  The show runners said from the beginning it wouldn't be a romantic/sexual love, and they kept to that and showed there's more than one type of love between two people. 

I agree. There were a couple times throughout the show (and even in tonight's episode) that I thought maybe they were going to go that route (and was disappointed because, like you mentioned, the showrunners always said they wouldn't go there) just because I can't think of another show that's portrayed such a deep love (between an unrelated man and woman) without it turning romantic. I was glad they stuck to that, and that their relationship was treated as just as important as other characters' romantic relationships (and I loved that throughout the show they were almost never referred to as anything other than "partners" and didn't feel the need to clarify business/professional partners because the partnership obviously extended far beyond that even though it wasn't romantic). The "as long as we're together" line at the end pretty much said it all. You never see relationships like this in media and I love that there's at least one example showing that relationship dynamics beyond the traditional/conventional romantic one exist.

(And wow, this was long, obviously I have a lot of feelings on the subject!)

[S10.E16: Red Alert]

This show hasn't been great in several seasons, but the thing that really took me out of this episode was the fact that they sent the pregnant woman to use the cat's litter box. Have none of these writers heard of toxoplasmosis?!

[S04.E01: Be My Better Half]

20 hours ago, Sarnia said:

I felt (not for the first time) that April's behavior towards Emily was totally unprofessionnal. Choi was a bit out of line as well in immediately thinking of abortion, but maybe he was talking as a brother and not a doctor. April should not push Emily in keeping the baby if that is not what she wants (nor should Emily be pushed to have an abortion if that is not what she wants). The right way to react, as a professional, would be to tell her : "these are the possibilities for you, if you have questions we can answer them", and as a human being, tell her "it's your life, you decide, and we'll be here to support you".

Maybe I'm a bit touchy on the matter but April's talk to Choi and subsequently to Emily about the baby pretty much ruined the character for me. If it's supposed to paint her as a compassionate person, it has totally backfired.

I think Ethan was talking as a brother and not a doctor, and just thinking about how a baby would make things harder on Emily given everything else she's dealing with. I feel like he and April were both addressing it from a personal standpoint and not a professional one. But regardless of their opinions, it is of course completely Emily's decision. (I wouldn't be at all surprised, though, if she decides to have the baby, and then either ODs and dies, or gets back into drugs and runs off, and Ethan and April end up raising it. Completely soap opera-ish, sure, but I feel like it'd fit right in with this show.)

Honestly, April has annoyed me for a long time. To me, she's always come across as very judgmental and the type of person who thinks everyone else should live their life based on how SHE thinks they should. I know (and am annoyed by) people like that in real life that I unfortunately can't avoid that easily, I don't want them in the shows I watch, too.

[S04.E01: Be My Better Half]

37 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Ava always creeps me out... I need robin to come back healthy and sane and get Connor away from Ava

Same. Robin needs to come back because Ava is awful.

Otherwise, I feel like there's not much else to say about the episode. I won't particularly miss Sarah, but I am somewhat intrigued about the reason behind her leaving because I thought it kind of came out of nowhere.

And April's sanctimoniousness pissed me off as usual. "You don't understand because you're not Catholic!" Yeah, well, there's been no suggestion that Emily's Catholic and your religious beliefs are irrelevant here so you need to butt the hell out of something that doesn't concern you. (Speaking as someone who grew up Catholic and knows people like April who need to mind their own damn business.)

[S02.E04: Part IV]

5 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I have a very hard time distinguishing between the police chief and Heather's dad.

Me too. Every time the chief is on it takes me a bit to realize he's not Heather's dad.

Anyway, that scene with Heather's dad and Marin made me think it's going to turn out that he killed her, maybe accidentally, and the whole thing with the cult, at least as it relates to her, is going to end up being a red herring. I'm probably wrong about that but it was just the impression I got for whatever reason.

I also don't get what Heather is supposedly lying to herself about. To me it seems like she's the one actually being honest, and if anyone's lying to themselves, it's Marin.

[S06.E13: Breathe]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:13 PM, Jesus Garcia said:

Now, watching this episode last night, I think that Elementary's writers might have decided to avoid the "hookup as the series’ fan payoff" altogether and move straight through to Joan and Sherlock having a life together as more than business partners -- which is what I would really consider as “the payoff” after watching the show for 6 seasons. I have watched Sherlock and Joan change because and for each other.

Sherlock is already on the record as stating that Joan is one of his loved ones; he’s admitted making special concessions / adaptations for Joan, he was devastated when Joan left the brownstone … and last night he comes right out to say that he would “lay down his life for her and for her child”: did everyone miss that Sherlock just made the supreme declaration of his love to Joan?

I'm all for that. Their relationship obviously isn't a typical romantic one (although I feel like there are definitely some slightly romantic elements to it), but there's a level of commitment there that isn't usually present in most platonic friendships. It's totally different than any other relationship on TV (at least on any show that I've seen) and I just find it completely fascinating to watch. It's definitely one of my favorite parts of the show.

On 7/31/2018 at 8:15 PM, Athena said:

I have been at best indifferent to the baby plotline, but I am really starting to warm up to it. Sherlock and Joan really care about each other. Even though Sherlock is the one being more verbal lately about how much Joan's happiness means to him, Joan considers Sherlock and the brownstone home. I love the support they have for each other and it's one of the best platonic love stories on television. I love the unconventionality of them living together with a child, but that child would be loved, amazing and would have Sherlock as a father figure. He may not be a parent, but Sherlock will be important to that lucky child's development.

I'm not a baby/kid person at all but I'm actually fine with the baby storyline, especially given the Sherlock/Joan scenes we've gotten so far because of it. On every show/movie I've ever seen, when the idea of raising a kid with a friend has been brought up, the character(s) in question were told it wasn't a good idea and they should wait until they found a spouse/conventional romantic partner to have a kid with instead. It's always slightly frustrated me because I've always been drawn to the idea of non-traditional/unconventional relationships/families, so the idea of them going in that direction here is really intriguing to me (even though, like you said, Sherlock may not officially be the kid's parent, he's still going to be a huge part of their life and development).

[S06.E11: You've Come a Long Way, Baby 2018.07.16]

On 7/31/2018 at 8:53 AM, shapeshifter said:

Depending upon your geographic location, perhaps a left-over fire cracker?

Maybe so! My town gets really into it and people do fireworks pretty much the entire month of July so it's entirely possible.

[S06.E11: You've Come a Long Way, Baby 2018.07.16]

On 7/18/2018 at 12:45 PM, Kathira said:

Yeah, it was a fake out by the writers. You were supposed to think that, considering his checkered past with his father. But then they turned it around that Sherlock was actually protecting his father.  Sherlock did still get in a little dig about his father being old, which I thought was endearing. 

On 7/18/2018 at 2:30 PM, iMonrey said:

I didn't hear a gunshot either. Did I miss something?

Yeah, I'm sure I would've assumed it was a fake out if I didn't later (think I) hear(d) the gunshot. I'd already deleted the episode from my DVR but I was able to find it online and rewatched and there definitely was not a gunshot so I don't know what I heard/why I thought there was one. Maybe a glitch in my recording or something, who knows.

[S06.E11: You've Come a Long Way, Baby 2018.07.16]

1 hour ago, illdoc said:

Actually, it was closer to "Moriarty thinks we're going to discuss her death. I'd rather talk about my father's", implying that he's talking about killing his father, but he is just talking about his death (natural or otherwise).

That's right. That's why I thought he was okay with them kiling his father.

1 hour ago, Trey said:

I did not hear a gunshot but my hearing is not the best; it did not show up on closed captioning.

Interesting. I could've sworn there was one but I guess I was imagining things!

[S06.E11: You've Come a Long Way, Baby 2018.07.16]

9 hours ago, Kathira said:

That was quite a great threat Sherlock made - if Morland dies of anything but natural causes, she will have to deal with him.

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I like how they ended things there, with Sherlock telling Moriarty exactly what would happen if Moreland died of anything but natural causes

Hmm. What about the gunshot, though? During the conversation with Morland (about him dying of natural causes, etc.) I had the impression Sherlock was lying to him, especially after Morland talking about wanting to kill Moriarty, and then Sherlock's conversation with Ellery (? not sure of the spelling) with him saying (paraphrased) "let's talk about you killing my father" and then it cutting away. My interpretation of that was that he'd rather his father die than Moriarty, and since we didn't see the rest of that conversation, I figured that what he was telling his father wasn't what actually happened. And then when Morland left, and there was a gunshot right after the door closed, I thought that confirmed that Sherlock was lying to his father, his conversation with Ellery was about them killing Morland, and one of Moriarty's people had shot him. Now I'm wondering if I hallucinated or something though lol.

[S03.E20: Let It Go]

So what's Roman's secret that his imagination wanted him to tell Hallucination Jane? Is it that he has a brain tumor, or whatever his health issue is, or is it something else? I'm trying to remember if there's something else we know about him that's a secret from Jane, or if this is something completely new. I've seen a couple people speculating recently that he's not really Jane's brother/also Avery's biological father, and I remember several episodes ago where they were talking about him and then cut to Roman and a couple people here thought the show was implying it was him. At this point I wouldn't really find it all that surprising. I know they've said the bio father was some random guy, Jane's high school boyfriend, but I can't imagine the show missing the opportunity to make him someone "shocking" and Roman would be the most (theoretically) shocking of all. I don't know why else they've waited this long to reveal his identity if not for it to turn out that he's someone we already know. Maybe not Roman, but I can't imagine anyone else who would be as "shocking" since a ton of people have speculated it's Crawford, and I can't imagine it being some random bad guy involved in Shepherd's organization having much impact. Maybe they're not going for shocking, though, and they haven't actually decided yet who he is...I'm putting way too much thought into this!

 

9 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I thought she did actually ask Tasha first? And Tasha gave the right answer-- that she had an assignment and couldn't go. I was only half watching, so I'm not sure why the fiance then asked Reed, too... maybe Tasha came off as a little cagey when she said it. Might have been nice if Tasha had texted Reed her excuse so he could say the same. I agree, Reed came off as really stupid, and the whole engagement fell apart way too conveniently.

I'm only a casual viewer (and missed the majority of season 2), but I knew this, and it's come up in episode threads on occasion. I'm a little unclear whether other characters really don't know her first name (I'm assuming not, as it must be on her official ID, etc., and if somehow it wasn't, I'm assuming we would have seen someone last night try to get it out of the dad). So I'm guessing it's just a secret from the viewers, which is weird, but kind of a running gag. I turned away in the scene where the dad started to say it-- did she cut him off right away, or did he start to say something with an "R"?

She definitely did. Tasha said she was on assignment and it was top secret and she couldn't say anything else. Obviously Meg didn't believe her, although I don't think it seemed super obvious she was lying.

I think the other characters know. I vaguely remember a scene where someone was making fun of her first name, implying it was lame/dorky and started to call her by it and she I think got mad and threatened to punch them/break their arm or something like that? I think it was Rich because I can't imagine her making those kinds of comments to anyone else. And to me it sounded like it started with We--or Wee, it was a long E. I can't think of any names that start with that sort of sound, though, so it must be something really uncommon.

[S09.E16: It's A Family Affair]

21 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I didn't like this episode but enjoyed the season overall.  While everyone's crazy decisions to avoid becoming just like Grace and Will was funny, I didn't like that it might mean something in terms of Grace and Will.  We just erased a whole season and epilogue where Will & Grace escaped from their patterns with each other in order to reach the conclusion that this time will be different because they are who they are. 

Yet in this finale, it seems like they're back to not accepting who they are.

I liked the season overall, and was okay with the episode up until the ending, which annoyed me. (Personally, the "no one else wanting to end up like them" jokes didn't really work for me because they just didn't make a lot of sense, IMO.) But they've done this so many times, and it's always the same.

Everyone else: Your relationship is weird and therefore bad!
Them: They're right, we need to be apart.

Until they're inevitably back together again. Like you mentioned, they started out the season saying "it's going to be different this time" but...it's not. I mean, the last couple minutes of this episode were basically a rehash of the last couple minutes of the S1 finale...essentially nothing's changed. I would say either be apart or together, just make a decision and stick with it, but at this point it seems like apart isn't an option (at least for any length of time), so I wish they'd just tell the others to mind their own business, or something, instead of the constant back and forth.

[Season 19 Spoilers & Speculation]

On 3/13/2018 at 5:55 PM, Xeliou66 said:

No there never was any of that that I recall. We haven’t heard a word about Ken and Alejandro since the end of season 17. I have to say, I’m glad they are finally remember Fin has a family since we have to see Benson raising the sex traffickers brat every other episode, I’m so sick of Noah, glad we are getting something different. I’m also curious as to who will visit  Peter Stone, since he told McCoy he had no living family but we do know Ben mentioned a daughter to Schiff once so I wonder if any of that will be cleared up.

Had to look it up because it was bugging me. In the episode Intersecting Lives, Fin had dinner with Ken and Ken told him that they'd gotten a surrogate who was a couple months pregnant with a boy, and showed him a picture on his phone (presumably of a sonogram). So I guess that's the scene I was thinking of. That ep aired in May of 2016 so in theory the baby could be like a year and a half old, assuming everything worked out, but I guess we don't know for sure that it did.

[Season 19 Spoilers & Speculation]

On 3/7/2018 at 4:40 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I hope we find out if Fin is now a grandfather

Hmm, I thought we already knew that. I could've sworn there was a scene of him showing off baby pictures on his phone, or talking about how Ken had sent him baby pictures, or something like that, a couple seasons ago, but maybe I'm imagining things.

[S03.E13: Warning Shot]

On 3/4/2018 at 5:17 AM, MissLucas said:

I'm confused about Avery's father. Jane does know him - so that rules out all the perps team tattoo took down when she was working with them. I was at first thinking it could be Crawford but no way Jane would not have brought that up once he entered the picture.  And IIRC he must be about Jane's age.

I thought she didn't remember him? She was just told "oh, he was your high school boyfriend", but she didn't actually remember who he was? Or maybe I missed something.

Anyway, like a couple other people said, my intial interpretation was also that Roman was Avery's father. Then I thought for some reason that it was that guy at the poker game that Roman's girlfriend* was trying to impress.

 

On 3/7/2018 at 6:28 PM, omgsowicked said:

It never crossed my mind that Avery may be black, or mixed with black. I'm mixed black/white and she doesn't look like that mix to me. Now that I'm scrutinizing the actress's photos on IMDB (lol), maybe her father is Oscar? Actually Rich DotCom looks like he could be her dad, though I know that's not a possibility, ha.

It also never occurred to me that Avery is supposed to be black or black/white. I think she could maybe be part Hispanic/Latina, but she doesn't look black to me, either. I also agree that she looks like she could be Rich's kid, which...probably not, but with this show you never know! Of course, there's also the possibility that she's not actually Jane's daughter after all, and part of the conspiracy or whatever.

*Well, fake girlfriend, I guess, but I do think we're supposed to believe that he's starting to have feelings for her.

On 3/7/2018 at 9:42 AM, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

Wasn't there someone else?  I thought there was some woman in a bar that he had worked with during his days with Shepard.  When  he saw her post-memory wipe, she punched him or tried to kill him or something for leaving without saying good bye.  I thought we saw flashbacks of them happy and in love.  I could be wrong though and maybe it was an act on his part.

Yeah, I definitely remember her. I'm not sure if he actually loved her, though, or if it was an act.

[S11.E16: The Neonatal Nomenclature]

23 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Where's Halley?

And Neil Degrasse Tyson!

I was really surprised he wasn't mentioned. When Howard said Neil, I thought for sure he was going to be the one the baby was named after.

[S05.E23: Scrambled]

The episode description on my DVR for this episode said something along the lines of "a mysterious woman from Sherlock's past" so I just assumed it was his mom who'd turn out to be alive after all. When she was obviously too young to be his mother, I thought maybe a previously unmentioned sister. But then that "people who love each other" line made me think she was just a random stalker because the way she said that line was creepy, unhinged and somewhat threatening in my opinion, and then his reaction when she showed up at the station only seemed to further that theory. Like, as a couple other people have speculated, she's built up this relationship between them in her head that doesn't exist in reality, and if he does something to piss her off she'll hurt him. I might be reading way too much into it, but I just got that sort of vibe. The way their scenes played out in the episode didn't seem sibling-y at all to me, and it also never occurred to me that she was imaginary just because this doesn't usually tend to be the type of show I'd expect something like that from.

Since the episode description on my DVR for next week says (spoilering this because it's different than the description on the thread for next week's episode and I haven't seen it anywhere else)

Spoiler

"A gang war erupts in New York City as Holmes and Watson pursue an elusive criminal, and a familiar face appears to be pulling the strings" that just made me think there's going to be the "twist" that Moriarty is running SBK, which is ridiculous, but it made me think that the mystery woman could possibly be one of Moriarty's people, and she's going to end up tying into the main gang storyline somehow?

Although after reading the article linked above, which says the woman

Spoiler

is someone the audience "probably assumed they would never get to see" I figure it has to be him imagining his mother, since I can't think of anyone else that specific wording would apply to. And like a few other people have pointed out, his sleeping patterns have been off lately, so I'm sure that ties into him having hallucinations and is probably going to lead to a mental break and that will be the main storyline next season. Which I'm not exactly looking forward to because I feel it's been done so many times before

but I guess we'll just have to see.

[S02.E23: Love Hurts]

What the hell was that?

Like so many other people, there wasn't a single thing in this episode that I can think of that made me the slightest bit interested in watching next season.

- I don't think Dr. Charles is going to die, but even if he does I don't really care that much because his characterization has been so all over the place and off this season.

- I really dislike April and her brother, and therefore don't care about either of their love lives. Sarah and Joey were pretty much the only couple on the show that I really liked, and I'm annoyed they broke up so she can be with Noah, who reminds me way too much of several immature jackass guys I've known. April's pissed me off for a long time, but most recently with her "you shouldn't want to die, Dude Who's Suffering, because I had a miscarriage and everything's all about ME!", and Ethan deserves way better (we never really got to know his Army GF too well but from what we did know I liked her much more than April, and since the Ethan pairing that I'd like will never happen, he should date someone outside the hospital).

- I was pretty indifferent to them at first, but I've come to actually like Connor and Robin together (and was glad she was okay and they figured out what was going on with her), and I hate the lame, predictable triangle route they're going with arrogant, smug New Girl.

- I don't really care at all about a Will and Natalie relationship, but they're both insufferable when they're together, and I hate that Jeff, a character I really liked on Fire, and thought had potential here, was sacrificed for their bullshit. I also liked Nina, but didn't like her with Will because it was obvious from the beginning that she was just a consolation prize and that's horrible. I also hate that they dragged Jay into their mess (does he actually like Natalie, despite seeming to still be into Erin when he's on PD, as if they're supposed to be two totally different characters? was he going along with it to force Will to "get his act together" as he said in this ep? was he helping Natalie try to make Will jealous for some bizarre reason? I don't know what the point of any of it was).

- Maggie gets on my nerves from time to time but mostly I don't care about her one way or the other, so I don't care about her potential totally-out-of-the-blue relationship with Stohl, who annoys me way more often than she does.

Overall, the show seems to have turned into way too much of a soap opera, and lately I've found myself having way less patience for the "workplace where everybody's banging their coworkers" trope. I thought it was much better when most characters had love interests outside the hospital and the relationships were more in the background.

There was just nothing at all in this episode that makes me the least bit excited for next season.

Edit:

59 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

So was Jay just brought on to be the catalyst for Will to wake up? I mean... really. Wtf. He was so un-Jay, but I can pretend it never happened if he and Natalie are never mentioned or hinted at again.

Didn't see this when I posted, but yeah, exactly. I was wondering the same thing about the Jay situation, it was just so bizarre and I have no idea what the point of any of the Jay/Natalie stuff was.

2 hours ago, athelyna said:

I was confused, was the shooter the guy who got pissed off about waiting and called the hospital claiming to be his brother and saying he committed suicide because of the wait a few episodes ago?  Or was this some other random psych patient?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was him.

[Disappeared - General Discussion]

15 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

I think they said mom and all the kids (including Macin) were Mormon, but dad was agnostic. Kind of weird that we only saw a clip of a news interview with dad. He seemed very remote as far as his family went--from religious beliefs to working away from home to not taking part in the program. 

I tend to think the letter blamed his parents for making him feel like a freak who couldn't do anything right. That's why they wouldn't make it public. 

Did they? I guess I thought they said it was Macin who was agnostic because that made more sense to me; it was just one more thing that made him an outsider in his family.

Yeah, I think that's what I'm leaning towards right now, too.

[Disappeared - General Discussion]

This one was really sad.

It reminded me a lot of the Andrew Gosden case: teenage boy who has "weird" interests, a conservative family, and is rumored to be gay makes his family think he's gone to school and takes off.

I think he probably was gay. I can't remember specifically what it was now, but there was something early on in the episode that made me think that even before they brought it up. Also, the part of the letter that they did read included something along the lines of him thinking he wasn't a good person, and that's easily something I can see a gay kid thinking growing up in a conservative Mormon family.

I agree with everyone else that his mom was missing the point when she said it didn't matter if he was gay or not. Even if it was true that she wouldn't have cared, that doesn't mean her husband would've felt the same way, and even if they both would've been fine with it, obviously Macin didn't believe he would be accepted. If he was gay, I have no doubt that that was the biggest factor in his disappearance.

But whether he was gay or not, he obviously didn't feel like he fit in with his family. (The narrator mentioned he was agnostic while the rest of his family were Mormons, he didn't seem to care about driving, and the anime/video games.) The one cop and his mom both mentioned thinking he'd come back when he turned 18, but I didn't find it surprising at all that he didn't if he was still alive at that point. Turning 18 wouldn't magically change his family into people he felt comfortable around or felt accepted by, and if that was how he felt, I don't blame him at all (it's entirely reasonable to think your family wouldn't accept you being gay given how they acted like watching anime was some horrible, shameful thing).

I feel like if we knew more of what the letter said (although I completely understand that it's private and his parents didn't want to release it publicly) it'd be easier to say for sure whether he committed suicide or not. It not being left in an easier to find place was odd, and I don't think "I'm done" necessarily points to suicide without more context. I don't think he necessarily committed suicide, although it's entirely likely he died in some other way once he left. I've read of so many cases of people trying to get away from situations where they just didn't feel accepted/supported/loved by their families or like they belonged, and in the majority of them, the person probably is dead (whether by suicide or some other way), but I can't help but hope that they all just went far away and started over and are living happy lives elsewhere now. I know that's probably just wishful thinking on my part, though.

 

On 4/3/2017 at 11:41 PM, peachybean said:

The fact that he was dragging his feet on driving stood out to me. I've never known a non-driving teenager- outside of urban areas- that wasn't off in some way.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "off" (unless you mean just "not typical/'normal'" but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing). I didn't drive until I was 19. I had no specific reasons, no car-related trauma, I just wasn't interested. Once I did start driving I loved it, but it's not for everyone.

On 4/5/2017 at 6:13 PM, Kitty Redstone said:

It sounds like the parents were loving but pushing him to do "normal" teen stuff that had worked with their other children (getting a job, learning to drive, earning privileges with good grades).  Regardless of whether Macin was gay or straight, this kid felt pressure to be like everyone else and it wasn't a path he was ready or able to follow.  He must have felt very alone.

I know what that pressure's like, and I felt horrible for him. As a "weird" kid with strange interests who doesn't care about typical teenage things with a "normal", popular sibling, it's hard (and it has to be significantly harder when you have five of those "normal" siblings). I don't think it was intentional on the part of my parents (they've always said they don't care what I do or don't do in life, as long as I'm happy), but that doesn't mean I didn't still feel the pressure to be like everyone else. I was never suicidal over it, but for someone with a history of depression, it's incredibly easy to see how feeling that way could lead to suicide.

5 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

Finally saw the Macin Smith episode. Where do you start? Mormon kid whose sexuality was being questioned by outsiders. Parents up and move him right before his senior year of high school when he had questions about whether he wanted to leave. He is already depressed. Dad's not around except when he drops in and starts laying down rules. (Who cares if the kid didn't want to drive, ffs. That seemed like something important to his dad, not him.) Kid is doing well in school, but it's not enough for daddy. Get a job, kid. Mom's depression drives move to Bum Fuck, Utah  (yes, I have been to St. George), so who knows how much attention she's paying to the signs. Kid takes no money. Yeah, he is dead. That time of year, I don't think it was exposure of any kind. I think he killed himself. Poor kid. 

I've known several people like his parents. (Well, like they seemed to be on the show. I'm not saying I'm 100% correct in this opinion because I don't know them, and I'm just going by how they came across on the episode, but.) They're super strict, and it's all about appearances with them, being seen as the "perfect family" with perfect, "normal" kids, who are almost more props than separate human beings with their own personalities, likes/dislikes, and plans for their futures. I'm not saying they're bad people because they may not know any better (if it worked for their other five kids, why not Macin?) but it's gotta be incredibly difficult being a kid who's even a little different in a family/environment like that. Not even counting him being gay if he was, but just his general personality, from what we saw. I don't remember the exact wording, but there was something his mom said about "responsibilities" where it was implied that it was his "responsibility" to be "normal", and I felt awful for him.

28 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Agree with everyone who thinks Macin committed suicide. I've a tendency to also think he was gay -- and that was what he wrote in the note he kept in his wallet -- the contents "too painful" for his parents to share publicly. 

I did have a laugh about the mother talking about Macin's "addiction" to anime as if it were some sort of weird affliction. The kid liked anime - what's the big deal? 

Unfortunately, I think I agree, too, although I want to think he's off somewhere living a happy life. I'm not sure what I think is in that letter. I tend to think it's probably pretty vague, but maybe heavily hints towards him being gay. Despite his parents (or at least his mom) claiming they'd have no problem with it, I think they probably wouldn't want to share if that was what it said. I think his mom did seem pretty defensive over the possibility of him being gay. Or maybe it was a rant about his parents, saying he was going to commit suicide and blaming them for it or something along those lines. I definitely get why that would be too painful to share.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. The way they acted over the anime (and I think he was into video games, too, if I'm remembering right) was way over the top. They were acting like he was addicted to crack or something and it was this shameful secret.

[Disappeared - General Discussion]

7 minutes ago, PsychoKlown said:

Here's a thought I can tumble in my mind tonight as I attempt to drift off....what if she was killed that night and he or they "stored" her body until the search parties completed their task then dumped her body near the cows so they could make her one with the earth.  Dust to dust and all that.....

Which brings to the forefront a new question.  How did the search party miss seeing her body? I thought they searched every square inch of the hundreds of acres? 

Investigators should swab the freezers on the farm.  Just a suggestion.

I had the same thought, but according to an article I found (http://www.kfvs12.com/story/33592195/medical-examiner-lynn-messers-body-was-not-moved-after-disappearance) the medical examiner believes her body wasn't moved, which I find odd. I have no idea how they didn't find her, especially if her body had been in the same spot all along. The whole thing is just really weird.

[Disappeared - General Discussion]

7 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Every member of the Messer family was a complete creep who were overacting like nobody's business. The fake crying on the daughter in law was painful to watch.

Throwing a major side eye to all of them and their cheating, douchebag father. 

I agree. I thought this was a really weird/not so great episode to start the season off with. The whole family was super odd and just off. The younger son and his wife's over the top theatrics were obnoxious and annoying, the older son gave off a major creep vibe I thought, and the dad/husband and his lobbying-to-get-laws-changed-to-follow-the-bible-while-cheating-on-his-wife, possible murdering hypocritical ass just pissed me off.

Hopefully the rest of the season is better.

[S02.E07: Plan B]

On 3/9/2017 at 1:20 PM, Blakeston said:

Was the accent a reference to something? I felt like something was going on there that I didn't understand.

 

On 3/10/2017 at 2:29 PM, qtpye said:

Why did Margo have that bizarre accent when she was explaining the heist? 

It confused me, too, but I THINK she was trying to do an old timey gangster voice, like a bank robber from an old movie or something. Maybe. Otherwise I have no clue...it was definitely weird.

Anyway, I liked the episode well enough. Like other people have mentioned, my first thought on the "complications" (or however it was worded) with Julia was that she wouldn't be able to get pregnant again in the future, but I'm not sure whether or not that's too mundane for this show. I guess we'll see!