Ravenya003
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Posts posted by Ravenya003
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On 4/13/2020 at 5:42 AM, starri said:
I guess Anastasia is a Disney Princess now?
Technically yes, though I seriously doubt she'll ever feature in the official Princess line-up.
Which is fine by me, since another great element of the film is that she gives up the gilded cage and chooses a life of freedom instead. A couple of Disney princesses have married down (Rapunzel, Jasmine) but they've still remained in the glitz and wealth (and responsibilities) of royal life. Anya is the only one who escapes into the real world.
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16 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:
To me, that would be an improvement, since it always strained credibility that Anya thought Dimitri and Vlad had no ulterior motives. They were earnestly searching for Anastasia... just because?
In the film, she may have presumed there was some sort of reward on offer, but she definitely didn't know about the audition process - in fact, it's not until they're halfway to France that she finds out she's going to be vetted by the Empress's cousin and so agrees to learn about Anastasia's background - it's pretty clear from the start that her main goal is just to get to Paris, and she's playing along with whatever Vlad/Dimitri suggest in order to achieve this. It's a bit of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation, since both parties are using the other for their own gain.
But at one point Vlad confides in her that he was once a member of the Russian court, so - yeah, there is a chance that she believes he's the instigator of this plan, and is doing so out of loyalty to the royal family. "I might be Anastasia and these guys are hoping to get something out of it" is a very different assumption than "they know I'm not for real, and they're grooming me as part of an elaborate con."
In the musical, she knows about the auditions and the reward from the start (the song "Learn to Do It" is the like, the fourth song in the show) - in fact, the villain Gleb spells it out to her that she's either partaking in a cruel hoax, or her life is in danger from the Bolsheviks if it turns out she's really the lost princess. She and Dimitri also realize she's truly Anastasia at exactly the same time, which is well before they go to see the Empress, so there's no big explosion at the ballet when Anya thinks he's been gaslighting her into believing she's Anastasia/using her as a pawn in his scheme since they met.
QuoteAlso, I never understood why Anya reserved all of her anger for Dimitri and none for Vlad, despite the fact that he was involved with the scheme, too.
Well, she was in love with Dimitri by that point, so it hurt more realizing the betrayal came from him. And Anya never gets the chance to yell at Vlad because he completely disappears from the story once Dimitri rejects the money!
I do agree though it's bizarre that Vlad gets off scot-free. He's a complicit and knowing partner in the scheme and is never held accountable for it. She does get the chance to call him out in the musical - though again, it doesn't have quite the same bite to it, as she fully knew what she was getting into.
If we could combine the best parts of the film (the love story, the redemption arc, the runaway train set-piece) with the best parts of the musical (no Rasputin, more historical accuracy, better characterization for Vlad, Sophie/Lily, Empress Marie) then we'd have a perfect movie.
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2 hours ago, aradia22 said:
Also, seeing the musical, which I still believe had to make changes because of legal issues with the rights to the play the movie was based on, made me love the original movie script more.
Yeah, as much as I enjoyed the musical, it takes all the BITE out of Anya/Dimitri's love story, starting from the fact that Anya knows the whole time that Dimitri/Vlad are holding auditions and that reward money is on the table if Anastasia is returned to her grandmother (which means there's no betrayal or need for Dimitri to redeem himself), to the fact that Dimitri coincidentally buys the music box on a whim (instead of knowing who it belongs to, and losing the symbolism of Anya carrying the other half of it for ten years - they were always destined to come together) to the show having to lose the whole desperate heroism he demonstrates when he jumps in the Empress's car and essentially kidnaps her so that she's forced to recognize Anya.
I mean, I'd glad they got a duet in the musical (and "A Crowd of Thousands" is a beautiful song), but "they saw each other at a parade once" doesn't quite pack the same punch as what the film puts them through to reach that deserved happy ending.
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Guys I just watched this again last night, and it's so damn good.
Okay, all the stuff about Rasputin is stupid and unnecessary, but when you're focusing on the triumvirate of Anya, Dimitri and the Dowager Empress, the levels of emotion and angst are off the charts!
Just the whole concept of Dimitri saving Anastasia's life as a child, then growing up to be bitter and cynical and wanting to cash-in on the Empress's desperate search for her missing grand-daughter and thinking he's hit the jackpot when he finds amnesiac Anya, only for him to get hit with a karmic jackhammer when he realizes he's in love with her at the exact same moment he realizes she actually IS Anastasia because she remembers him rescuing her as a little girl in a moment only THEY knew about.
So knowing a con-artist can never be with a princess, but realizing he has to do right not just for her sake but to salvage his own soul, he straight up KIDNAPS the Empress and forces her to speak to Anya by showing her a music box he's been carrying around for years, not knowing that Anya has had the key to opening it this WHOLE TIME, which finally unlocks her memories and reunites the last of the Romanovs, all at the cost of his own romantic hopes - that's a fantastic redemptive/emotional arc!
Also, watching as an adult makes me realize how appreciative I am of the fact that when Anya finds out that Dimitri has been using her as part of his con she actually gets to SLAP him (really hard!) in the face. He did her dirty, she has every right to be furious, and he totally deserved that slap (even though he makes up for it afterwards). So many films/shows are terrified of their heroines being righteously angry; that a woman at least partly modeled on a Disney Princess got to react in that way is pretty remarkable, even today.
Maybe being in pandemic lockdown is doing weird things to my brain, but this is solid gold material (it makes me all the more frustrated that they wasted so much narrative real estate on Rasputin). All those awful Disney live action remakes, yet THIS is what they should be focusing on. I'd definitely pay for a decent movie that combines the Anya/Dimitri/Empress relationships of the movie with the villain of the musical (a Bolshevik commander trying to hunt down the last Romanov).
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Someone has summarized and animated Colin Trevorrow's "Duel of the Fates" script, albeit in a comedic manner.
https://news.avclub.com/some-people-went-and-animated-colin-trevorrows-unused-s-1842614111
Interesting to see what might have been, though ultimately I think there are pros and cons (mostly the latter) to both visions.
I will however say that Trevorrow's script felt more like a natural follow-up to what was established in both TFA and TLJ (unredeemable Kylo, Rey Solano, a return to planets like Coruscant, an explanation for Rey's vision in TFA, a reason why no one answered Leia's SOS in TLJ, Rey getting a lightsabre staff, Rose treated as a team member, re-establishing a Jedi school, etc).
But Finn still gets shafted, and I don't know what the hell Rey/Poe is all about.
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Just finished watching, and I enjoyed it without being blown away. In an odd way some areas were rushed while others went too fast: the best (that is, the most tense) part of the film was Adrian's gaslighting of Cecelia while she was in James's house: things got a bit too unreal and sci-fi once he was running around in the malfunctioning suit.
I thought they could have done more with the teenage girl, because if ANYONE was going to believe that there was an invisible man running around, it would have been an imaginative teenage girl. If the slap had played out with Sydney immediately realizing it couldn't possibly have been Cecelia, and then her father seeing a mark on her face and getting concerned about how his daughter was getting dragged into Cecelia's "delusions", that could have led to Sydney trying to get some evidence of her own, unnoticed by Adrian. As it was, she was pretty much useless.
I also would have liked to know what Cecelia planned to do about the baby.
Ah well. It was a fun (as in suspenseful) ride.
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On 3/26/2020 at 8:28 PM, Bill1978 said:
I hope there isn't a Frozen III.
The sequel made 1.5 billion. There's gonna be a Frozen III.
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Finally got a chance to comment on this.
I liked it, perhaps even more than the first one, though in that case it's because it got so overhyped that by the time I got to see it, it was never going to live up to my expectations. In this case the story was extremely cluttered (the five elements, the evil dam, the secret backstory) but the emotions were beautifully conveyed. I got a little misty-eyed when Elsa entered Ahtohallan and Anna sang her way onto her feet again (which makes it strange that "Into the Unknown" is up for the awards, since "Show Yourself" and "The Next Right Thing" were the two show-stoppers).
The subplot with Kristoff made me laugh, as he's clearly a thousand times more invested in that relationship than Anna is. I'm torn, because on the one hand it's nice to see a male character fixated on a relationship (the romance is essentially his entire plot) but on the other, I don't think anyone should have the sentiment: "who am I, if I'm not your guy?" This could have ended with the two of them amicably parting and it would have been okay with me.
But who am I kidding, that would have never happened in a Disney movie, any more than they were going to give Elsa a girlfriend. But again, mixed feelings. If they do Frozen III it would be nice to see Elsa in a romance, but it's also nice to have a Disney Princess (or queen, or whatever she is now) that's single and happy about it.
The highpoints were the visuals and music, which also felt a lot more consistent than they did in the first movie (every original Frozen song felt like it belongs in a different film), and like I said, I felt a bit verklempt when Anna finds the strength to get up, Elsa tamed the water horse and explores Ahtohallan, and the end when Elsa gallops over the rock troll/water.
Most wasted character: Honeymaren! She was cool and it's a bummer she didn't go on the mission (though I suppose it was too crowded already). Still, she needs a much bigger role if there's gonna be a Frozen III.
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On 3/20/2020 at 3:22 PM, sel said:
And, while I'm always thankful for cultural sensitivity, the movie went out of its way to be woke in way that pulled me out of the story and felt kind of unnatural and dishonest for its period.
Could you give an example? I'm genuinely curious, as (having also just watched the 1994 version) I felt there were a lot of added lines and discussions that explored early feminism: Marmee talking about how girls needed physical exercise as well as boys, Meg and Jo being told that Laurie could get away with bad behaviour because he was male, Jo talking about suffrage and how women should get the vote not because they're angels but because they're people ...
I didn't feel there was as much of that this time around, saving Amy's speech to Laurie and Jo's declaration that women were more than just vessels of beauty and love (which played out like a feminist moment in the trailers, but in context was a segue to her admission that she was lonely despite all her ideals).
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5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:18 hours ago, benteen said:
I found the Rey/Ben kiss dubious for a lot of reasons and I still think so. But Disney (I'll say Disney because they micromanged this whole thing) went through it and you can't put that genie back in the bottle. People don't kiss on the lips to express gratitude. They hug or kiss on the cheek. Deal with it, Disney.
"A kiss while dying" is a fairly common trope in entertainment, and it's often shown more as 'I'll give this person what they want as they're dying' than it is a sign of love and devotion. Think Marius and Eponine in Les Miserables or Wesley and Illyria in Angel. My read will always be that Rey just gave Kylo Ren what she believed he wanted - the idea of being loved and redeemed.
Marion kisses Sallah on the lips in Indiana Jones; ditto Lena Headey to both Grimm Brothers in that Terry Gilliam film, all to say thank you, all non-romantic/sexual.
I've seen the Rey/Ben kiss described as the kiss Christine gave the Phantom, that of a greater soul giving benediction to a wretched one. I like that. And Rey HAS used a kiss to express gratitude before, with Finn while he was in his coma (albeit on forehead, because even scavengers raised by sand know about consent issues). /joke
But it's pointless arguing, if you want to believe it was romantic, it was. If you don't want to believe it was romantic, it wasn't. Disney left room for either option.
(And ultimately, it really doesn't matter either way: he's dead now, and as my co-worker said: "if he's redeemed enough to save her life, he's redeemed enough to keep his Force Ghost to himself and leave her the f**k alone").
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Just in case my previous post wasn't clear, I haven't read the novelization, I'm only repeating the three biggest talking-points that've been circling the internet.
But frankly, the only way I could accept the Rey/Ben kiss was by assuming it was out of gratitude (several pages back I described it as a "thank you and goodbye kiss") because what else could it possibly be? (Beyond the meta attempt to throw a bone at the loudest voices on Twitter). I point-black refuse to believe Rey had feelings for him that went beyond sympathy and gratitude, based on the fact that she hated Kylo Ren, and she knew Ben Solo for... what? Twenty minutes, tops?
(And if she did, hey - she's now hanging out with the two hottest men in the galaxy. She'll get over it pretty quick).
All that said:
10 hours ago, Winter Rose said:(The consequence of trying to appeal to everybody, rather than writing for the good of the story, being the constant backpedaling/half-measures so as not to step on any toes, then nothing reaches its potential.)
Bingo. Everything was so wishy-washy and deliberately ambiguous that people can (and SHOULD) take what they like from this, instead of attacking anyone working on the project that has differing interpretations. And honestly, I can sympathize with JJ Abrams and his obvious attempt to try and please everyone - as opposed to the Game of Thrones guys who were interested in pleasing precisely NO ONE, but unfortunately it came to the same conclusion: disappointment. There's gotta be a fine line between fanservice and being true to the story/characters.
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So the novelization of "The Rise of Skywalker" is out very soon, and reports from various people who got an advanced copy are out. The three most interesting aspects:
1) Palpatine was a clone, whose spirit was transferred into the new body after his death. You don't need me to tell you this doesn't make any more sense than what was (or wasn't) already in the film; in fact it throws up more questions, since why on earth would a clone have the facial scarring that Palpatine got from Mace Windu's lightsabre/lightning attack?
2) Unsurprisingly, Rey doesn't spend the rest of her life as a hermit on Tatooine (I've no idea how or why people would assume this, unless shippers just wanted to throw out the baby with the bathwater and insist that she couldn't possibly have a life after Kylo died). In any case it's made clear that after burying the sabres she goes back to the Falcon where Finn and Poe are waiting for her.
3) Rey kissing Ben is described explicitly as "a kiss of gratitude". Which isn't hugely surprising given its context and the way Daisy played it, but (some) Reylos have been attacking Rae Carson (the writer) on her Twitter. *sigh* For the past four years they cried "it's just fiction!" at anyone who questioned their shipping preferences - and they were right! It IS just fiction, so I wish they'd start taking their own damn advice.
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Not to go off track, but if this movie (as the last trailer implies) involves Natasha going back to the facility in which she was raised to save her similarly brainwashed cohorts that never got the chance to leave the abusive system that raised them, then John Boyega has every right to be royally pissed off.
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I just binged watched these ten episodes over the weekend. Brief thoughts:
Mixed feelings about Lagertha's death. I feel that Hirst knew she had to go down fighting, but was also stymied by the established prophecy that she would die at the hands of one of Ragnar's sons. This was perhaps his compromise. In any case, I love that she got to fight alongside her shieldmaidens one last time. Aslaug's murder not withstanding (I was so disappointed in her for that) Lagertha has always been about protecting and supporting other women. I actually got a bit teary when she and the other shieldmaidens had a drink around the fire, and the submerged ride of the Valkyries was stunning.
To echo other posts, Bjorn is terrible: a terrible king, terrible husband and terrible father. He didn't deserve Torvi, and he sure as hell doesn't deserve Gunnhild. As vile as Harald is, I agreed with his incredulity that Bjorn didn't appreciate her enough.
No one seems to have mentioned that after the rape, Ingrid had a scene with King Olaf in which he comforts her and calls her "my darling." So... they're father and daughter? That seemed to be the implication, and if that's true then it entirely changes Ingrid's involvement with Bjorn. Presumably her father sent her as a spy to his household, which is surely why she was always talking about why Bjorn is the rightful king: it's what her father has told her to say.
Glad Ubbe and Torvi are well out of there. Ubbe is officially the noblest and most well-adjusted son of Ragnar, so hopefully he can stay that way. Hirst likes to assassinate characters before killing them though, so we'll see. And if anyone deserves lasting happiness it's poor Torvi.
Hvitserk has spent half the season living in terror of Ivar, and now he's totally cool with him? Um, okay. Also, we didn't really get a reaction from Ivar concerning Lagertha's death. He's got to be pissed that Hvitserk got that "honour" instead of him, right?
No idea where they're going with this Freydis lookalike, though presumably it's all in Ivar's head considering Hvitserk didn't notice a resemblance. She's got some fantastic fur hats though.
The Christianization of Norway finally begins. That tension has always been part of the show, right from the rivalry between Floki and Athelstan, and now it's playing out on a grand scale. It's a good way to take out the show, though I'm curious as to how it's all going to play out...
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On 12/7/2019 at 4:24 PM, starri said:
I had avoided this trailer on general principle, but allowed myself to look at it and...god help me, it's actually really charming.
I have to admit, it does look pretty cute, even if it's not really Scooby Doo unless an old mansion and a greedy land developer is involved.
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The original film was the first horror movie I ever watched, with a cousin who (when the credits rolled) immediately went to the nearest mirror and said: "candyman" five times.
I may have to see this movie just to prove to myself I'm over that lasting trauma.
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Hey, if anyone knows what a good trilogy should look like, it's Elijah Wood.
Also, those ships were manned by brainwashed child soldiers? Just like Finn and Jannah? That our heroes proceeded to blow up? Awesome.
Till the day I die, I will never understand why they dropped the ball on Finn starting a Stormtrooper uprising. This trilogy should have ended with his expertise on Stormtrooper thinking/training and Rey's Force powers being used in tandem to reach out to the Stormtroopers and show them there was another, better way to live, and for them to turn on Kylo (and/or Palpatine) by simply laying down their weapons and rendering the fleet harmless.
Can you imagine the power of a scene in which Finn's words gets through to them and they take off their helmets to reveal a bunch of scared teenagers?
The faceless characters that have always been treated as cannon fodder and laughed at for their bad aiming skills could have been the key to defeating the Dark Side once and for all, which in turn would have been a beautiful bookend to their original purpose as disposable clones built for war.
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On 2/12/2020 at 11:28 AM, Zuleikha said:
I can't imagine what a nightmare the great Bangel/Spuffy shipper wars
Slightly OT, but I think it's more than a little funny that both BtVS and SW ended the same way regarding the ships: trying to throw a bone to all the loud and obnoxious shippers, while being smart enough to realize that their heroine was better off with an arc that valued self-actualization, finding true happiness with her friends, and ending the story as a single woman.
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Rey and Finn's faces melting into joy and relief when they find each other again at the end of TROS (yes, Poe was there too, but the real emotion is between Rey and Finn). After all the shit and the separations they went through, they're finally together forever.
After all the pointless ship-wars that went on in this fandom, it was immensely satisfying for the true endgame of the trilogy to be this trio, however you chose to interpret their bond with each other.
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On 2/4/2020 at 1:45 PM, VCRTracking said:
Anyway I think most of the Reylo shippers upset now are just young, in their teens and 20s at the least. Inexperienced about relationships and naive about love, thinking it can change people. By the time their 40 they'll realize they'll at least see how unhealthy a ship it was and that a redeemed Ben giving up his life was the best end for him. At least I hope so. Can anybody confirm this? Are their any ships you now regret supporting when you were younger?
I don't think it's a matter of age but perspective (which granted, comes with age). I have two good fandom friends that are into "dark ships", but they're mature enough to a) not white-wash or minimize the deeds of the villain, b) not play Ron the Death Eater and make out the heroes to be even WORSE than the villains, and c) know that it's just fiction, and so don't have screaming meltdowns when it turns out that the mass-murderer and the heroine AREN'T going to live happily ever after. They tag their work, stay in their own lanes, and (surprise!) don't harass or get harassed.
But I don't think it's an age thing, sadly. I mean, this author is clearly a grown woman and she writes Jasmine/Jafar erotica (which okay, fine) but has this to say about Aladdin:
“Aladdin could easily be the villain. He’s a liar, he’s a thief, he engages in slavery—kind of—with the genie. Jafar, while being murderous and evil, is at least moderately upfront about it.”
I just hate this kind of moral relativism. In Star Wars fandom this mentality translated to Kylo being praised for "bridal carrying" Rey after he knocked her unconscious, waiting patiently for her to wake up before torturing her, and arguing that him throwing her into a tree was just self-defense.
Meanwhile. Finn is practically crucified for grabbing Rey's hand to pull her to safety, because that's an assault on her agency! Also, Finn lied about his identity to Rey, whereas Kylo always told the truth, so who's the REAL villain here?? (No, I'm not making this up. This is actually what they said).
I think I would have more patience for villain-sympathizing if they didn't ALWAYS feel the need to drag the actual heroes through the mud in an attempt to make murderers look better by comparison.
Also "progressive shipping" is a thing now, where if a person likes a ship, it has to be wedded to some sort of greater cause. I think Reylos settled on their ship being feminist or something, but I honestly don't have the strength to unravel the troll logic behind that.
But there's the flip side of it too, where "purity politics" require people to go around forbidding people from enjoying or exploring anything in fiction that isn't totally good and pure and vanilla. At the end of the day does it really matter what people think about fictional characters?
Ultimately I think Kylo Ren came along at the same time as a fandom cultural shift in which people were sick to death of violence-is-love romances/white man redemption arcs AND of being told what they could or couldn't enjoy by a faceless crowd of judgmental peers. Which is why SW fandom ended up so angry and toxic (along with the usual misogynistic/racist trolls).
In short, fandom is a complete shit-storm these days, but I can't say it doesn't fascinate me.
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I've just finished watching, so I'm still processing, but I really enjoyed this show (season?) and felt it did a great job of navigating the nuances and difficulties and complexity of the #metoo movement and the culture of silence that has harmed so many women and men.
A part of me is angry and annoyed that a talented, intelligent, beautiful young woman had to die just so everyone else could finally get their heads out of their asses, but I absolutely don't believe Hannah killed herself on purpose. The last scene of her alive is her making the call to accept the job in LA - perhaps that was the last bit of soul-selling that drove her to do something stupid, but not deliberately suicidal.
I was certain that Mitch was going to get on the air and Bradley would surprise him with the recording of Hannah recounting her events of that night, just so he could finally come face to face with the ugly truth of how used and manipulated his victims really felt (not that he grasped that after the first victim that spoke out on-air), but then that would have been horribly disrespectful to Hannah herself.
Instead I love that the coup was done entirely without him, leaving him with absolutely no leverage or power.
The whole situation between Hannah/Mitch played out very well: at first we see Hannah seemingly being very much in control of her own life and Mitch passionately insisting that he's never committed rape. Then during the flashback episode I was pretty grossed out by Mitch, but could also see how he could walk away from that situation thinking it was consensual.
But what the heck was I thinking??? It goes to show how deeply trained we all are to "see both sides" of every little thing, when CLEARLY the power imbalance was staggering, Hannah was in an emotionally vulnerable place due to the shootings, and how Hannah simply freezes up when frightened. And he not only took advantage of all that, but had the sheer gall to declare that she used HIM to get a promotion.
That line she had about how surreal it is when men: "want you but don't give a fuck about you at the same time" definitely resonated.
I was also very fascinated by the way this shows understands how catchphrases and language can be used against people. On a couple of occasions a woman (Bradley at the awards dinner, Hannah in the hotel room) finds herself in an awkward situation she doesn't extract herself from, and afterwards is asked by another character: "aren't you a STRONG EMPOWERED WOMAN?" It's a trap, because either you're admitting you're NOT that, or that you ARE and you were powerless to stop something terrible from happening to you anyway.
Also, the way that Mitch was always whining about how his victims were "playing the victim" (another familiar refrain) while being utterly ignorant that HE was doing exactly the same thing. He could have stopped and reflected when he realized he was trying to collaborate with his misogynistic statutory rapist buddy on a documentary about accused men, but he didn't. He just kept screaming about HIS LIFE while ignoring his wife, co-star, children and victims. That the women did the coup without him was gloriously satisfying.
As was the coup itself. Alex's rage and furiousness, with herself and the men around her, which finally exploded on air with Bradley's help and everyone else keeping Fred and his new henchman away from the broadcast room was fantastic. I laughed so loudly when she threw that glass of water in Marlon's face, and I love that her daughter was watching. Perhaps they can make amends through that.
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5 hours ago, Zuleikha said:Quote
most of the characters who GET these redemption arcs are straight white males, who are inspired to become better people by the love of a good woman,
Kylo's redemption arc didn't come from the love of a good woman. Rey was not able to bring him back to the light. It came from the forgiveness and acceptance of his parents.
Sorry, I didn't word this clearly - I meant in general terms this is how Redemption Arcs/Beauty and the Beast narratives play out, and in this instance a lot of shippers clearly thought this is the path Kylo/Rey would take. (Much like Zutara shippers assumed Katara would be the reason for Zuko's redemption in Avatar: The Last Airbender, and also reacted badly when it became clear this wasn't the case).
But this story also doesn't fit the B&B mold in that Kylo eventually dies and Rey is free to live her life without him (and clearly isn't particularly devastated about that fact).
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I liked Jesse Eisenberg's neurotic, hyper take on Lex Luthor in Batman vs Superman. Sorry.
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I think anyone can have a redemption arc, but the amount of work that goes into it has to be proportionate to the amount of harm that person does in their lifetime.
So if you're just a bit of a jerk, like Mr Darcy, Han Solo, Steve Harrington (Stranger Things) or the Beast from Disney, then you can get your shit together in the space of a movie or season of television.
People like Eleanor Shellstrop and Prince Zuko need a bit more work since they're incredibly selfish and toxic people to start with and have really hurt a lot of people. They have to WORK for their redemption by acknowledging the pain they've caused and putting in the hard yards to atone for it.
Once you get to murderers, things get much harder, as most writers either end up downplaying their crimes or trying to justify them by claiming "bad childhood" or "outside their control". This leads to a spectrum of redemption arcs that can be either good or bad.
So you've got Angel who sadistically killed thousands of people - but it was a soulless demon that was really responsible, and once he gets his soul back he uses his immortality to atone. Or Faith from the same show, who kills two men, one accidentally and one in cold blood... but eventually goes willingly to prison for her crimes.
Bucky Barnes is off the hook because he was clearly a brainwashed victim himself, but the likes of Vader and Kylo Ren have to die immediately after their redemption because their monstrous actions are too horrific to properly quantify. Had they lived, the good guys would have been totally justified in executing them for war crimes, because the excuse "an old man manipulated me into doing it" just doesn't cut it. They had free will in a way that Bucky didn't, and made the wrong choices.
And the worst possible scenarios involve characters like Regina, an unrepentant rapist and murderer whose victims have to coddle and forgive her endless self-pitying bullshit until she's crowned Queen of Everything in the desperate hope she'll finally stop complaining about how hard her life has been to people whose suffering matches or even outweighs her own (and in many cases, was CAUSED by her).
Basically, the redemption arc must fit the crimes, which is why "redemption equals death" is such a prevalent trope - because a lot of writers go too hard with the "villainy" side of things, and then can't see any other realistic ending for their characters but life in prison should they survive.
Edit: and ursula is right in pointing out that most of the characters who GET these redemption arcs are straight white males, who are inspired to become better people by the love of a good woman, which I don't need to tell anyone can have dire consequences when it's played out in a real world context. (Which in turn I think is why so many people are getting sick of this kind of story).
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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
in Movies
It's sad that the actors/actresses have suffered, since I'm sure any performer is just as interested in having an audience enjoy their work as they are in cashing the paycheck.
I recently watched the reaction videos of Daisy Ridley and John Boyega watching the trailer for the Force Awakens, and they were so excited they were in tears and bouncing off the furniture. Safe to say that even before last December, that vibe was LONG gone.