[The Dunphys: Phil, Clare, Alex, Haley, and Luke]

Watching some reruns tonight, I’m reminded that the only episodes in which I liked Haley were the Andy episodes.

I’ll never stop wondering what happened to that arc, as it was clearly meant to be endgame for Haley. The character’s name was Andy BAILEY, after all. Haley Bailey — clearly the writers’ intent from Day One was that they’d be together. He was Phil 2.0, after all.

So what happened? My guess is that Adam Devine simply became less and less available, and the writers had to scramble to bring back Dylan in a way that somewhat made sense.

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

7 hours ago, winsomeone said:

You certainly do hate Matt. He must have done something right, as they sure do have enough money now.

I honestly can't think of anyone I "hate." I certainly wouldn't say I hate someone I don't know.

From what we've seen over the years, Matt is selfish and dishonest. He's an attention whore, an irresponsible business owner, and a long-disinterested father. I could go on.

As I've said so many times that I'm sure people are sick of it: Substitute the name "Amy" for the name "Matt." That gives us "Amy was arrested for DUI twice." "Amy didn't attend Zach's soccer games because they bored her." "Amy cultivated an inappropriate relationship with a farm employee while married to Matt." I imagine you'd judge Amy pretty harshly.

I am genuinely trying to understand the double standard.

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

1 hour ago, winsomeone said:

I wonder if Jeremy or Zack would have turned out differently if Matt had had any say in their upbringing?

I'm certain Amy would have appreciated it if Matt had taken any interest. Sleeping in, not attending your kids' activities because they "bore" you, racking up DUIs and leaving family vacations early doesn't leave much time for a person to exert much paternal influence.

[Chris and Amy]

The more confused I become about possible reasons for the dogged defense of Matt and Caryn, the more I think about the comparison @funky-rat made above regarding Josh Duggar. I'm not a fundamentalist Christian, so I'm only hypothesizing here -- but it seems that in patriarchal circles, it's upsetting to the entire ecosystem when anyone criticizes the "head of the household." Even if he's clearly wrong, women defend him because it's too upsetting to think that the hierarchy could be pretty messed up, and the guy who's supposed to be in charge isn't qualified to lead anybody. 

What I don't see anyone responding to, ever, are these points:

• In the early part of the series, Matt worked outside the home, but so did Amy. Yet Amy seemed to have sole responsibility for the upkeep/cleanliness of the home.
• When Matt wasn't working outside the home, he slept in (consistently, not just a one-time thing) while Amy had sole morning responsibility for four school-age kids. It sticks with me that he normally rose at 9:30 -- understandable if you're working late hours; lazy and selfish when you have four kids and no outside-the-home job.
• Matt left vacations early, with no easily explained reason.
• Matt was arrested for DUI, twice.
• Matt admitted to missing soccer games because they bored him.
• Matt came pretty close to missing the boys' graduation -- I can't recall why, but I don't think the reason had a lot of legitimacy.

Can you imagine this conversation if Amy had conducted herself that way?

Sure, Matt planned and supervised the building of the farm's attractions -- but one of them almost killed his son and an employee. Matt was pretty good at being the "fun dad" -- when he wanted to be. But most of the time, he was about Matt, while Amy was the hands-on parent. 

Why the canonization of Matt and the vilification of Amy -- not just here, but on social media in general? Is it sexism? The fundamentalism thing? I genuinely want to understand.

[Chris and Amy]

2 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I once saw a psychiatrist about a family situation and he told me "protecting the kids" from it by covering up for the offending party was the absolute wrong thing to do.  He said they more than likely know already and will have more bad thoughts about you trying to hide it than if you are honest and straight forward.  I know that was true for me when my mother tried to pretend my father wasn't cheating on her and I found the condoms in his car after she'd had her tubes tied.  Not to mention when she tried to gloss over his other selfish and abusive behaviors.  As a child I'd have rather she'd have dragged him over the coals than made excuses for him.  So there is that side also.  She later told me the pediatrician told her it was a mistake to try to make nice and pretend all was well when even the 8 year old could see all was not well. 

Based on that I would see Amy as making a mistake if she didn't honestly grapple with the hurt and rejection and tried to pretend it never happened.  I wouldn't publish it to the world, but that's her choice and perhaps since it was aired for the world, she has a point in putting her point of view out there.

This all makes so much sense, and is such wise advice. Thank you for sharing it.

The issue is the cheating, not the reaction to the cheating.

IMO, Matt established some pretty toxic behaviors early on, and his family members seem to have have spent years trying to cope within a Matt-centric framework that's included a fair amount of dishonesty. (Money issues, likely alcohol abuse, and obviously infidelity, for starters.) Amy is clearly done enabling that toxicity; perhaps she realizes that honesty is central to her healing process. She owes that to herself.

[Chris and Amy]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:43 PM, Jenny8 said:

Amy just can't seem to enjoy her happy relationship with her new love and let go of the past without wallowing in self-pity. With no regard to her children, she has to dredge up intimate details about her marriage and put it in a book,  just to sock it to Matt. Anyone who watched the earliest episodes is quite familiar with her mean streak. Now we see her vindictive side. No wonder the kids are more comfortable around Matt and Caryn than with their own mother.

Matt and Caryn cheated. Amy has the right to tell her story. And to be honest, I wouldn't worry about her regard for her children -- two of whom, at least, aren't demonstrating a whole lot of loyalty to the parent who raised them while the other parent was sleeping in, racking up DUIs, leaving family vacations early, and generally cultivating a life in which his family was clearly secondary to his own needs.

I'm sorry, but any desire to protect Matt and Caryn's feelings is, at this point, entirely unwarranted. As I said in another post, it's a double standard that is troubling from all kinds of perspectives. They had the right to make the decision to cheat -- but life is a series of choices and consequences, and Amy has the right to make the decision to air her feelings about those choices.

Don't want your laundry aired? Don't dirty it. 

[Chris and Amy]

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I fail to see how making unsubstantiated allegations about your ex and his future wife, who the family loves and admires, is going to help anything.  I hope it makes Amy feel better, because, I don't think it will impress anyone in her family. In fact, I think it may burn some bridges. 

 Also, I think it shows a true DESIRE FOR PAY BACK  and I don't think that will set well with Chris.  Amy may have shot herself in the foot with this one.  

First, if the family admires Caryn, they deserve every bit of whatever they're going to end up feeling when they realize Caryn's all about the benjamins and Matt is as selfish as he's ever been.

Seriously. If those kids do hold Caryn in high regard and are truly as dismissive to their mother as we see on the show, Amy deserves to pull up stakes, live wherever, travel with Chris, and somehow try to manage the hurt that she is absolutely, positively allowed to feel.

I'm once again stunned by the double standard being expressed about Amy's right to tell her story. Let me get this straight. Matt cheated ... but Amy's at fault for talking about it? In what universe does that make sense?

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don't know Amy's heart, but, she seemed to despise Matt through much of the years that I watched them on the show.  Some of it was downright painful.  But, if she's over that, great. Maybe, it's just Caryn that she has issues with now.  

I think I'd also have a hard time acting as though everything was peachy if I were married to someone who couldn't be bothered with his children's interests and activities, was racking up DUIs, had no follow-through skills, and exhibited more than a few symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. 

And, really, in response to another post, I'm tired of hearing about the condition of the damned house when the kids were growing up. Matt couldn't be bothered to lift a finger; does anyone else remember watching scenes of Matt sleeping in while Amy drove the kids to school? After making sure they had clean clothes, feeding them breakfast, and -- I don't know -- taking interest in them as humans?

I have a difficult time understanding how Amy could have reacted any other way. She obviously grew up thinking marriage was meant to last; my guess is she told herself that she needed to buck up and deal with Matt's bullshit for the sake of the kids, and perhaps because, somewhere deep down, she still loved him. But he wasn't a partner. He was irresponsible and dismissive.  

And yet, Amy was somehow expected to "stand by her man," and do it with a smile on her face? Come on. I wonder how Amy would have been collectively judged had she slept in, skipped soccer games because they bored her, been charged with DUI -- twice -- and left family vacations early. Sorry, but the double standard around this is ridiculously blatant. 

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

Just now, Literata said:

Sticking only to the information we've gleaned on this site -- Amy strongly indicated during a podcast with Lisa that was posted here that Matt had cheated with Caryn while Matt and Amy were still married. 

Circumstantial evidence: everything else. And there's a ton of it. 

Armchair psychology: Matt's younger brother, also an LP, was married to and had kids with an average-size woman. I wonder if that's considered desirable among some in the LP community, and if Matt looks upon his relationship with Caryn as a badge of honor -- e.g., "Look at me -- a woman who has only been with average-size men has agreed to be with me." So perhaps once it became clear he had a chance with Caryn, he used the opportunity to put the "our marriage isn't working" spin on things so he could extricate himself from Amy.

Matt's proven himself to be a snake on numerous occasions throughout the years. My opinion is that everything in the demise of the marriage led exactly where he wanted it to ... a magical land where he's allowed to show off his average-size side piece on national TV, without consequence or concern about anyone else's feelings,   

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

On 6/9/2019 at 10:34 AM, alegtostandon said:

[Zach and Tori]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Aren't there twins on Matt's side of family too? But, I agree about the twin thing being inherited on the mother's side, right? 

Fraternal twins in a father's family are of no consequence. 

https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/twins-and-multiples/do-twins-really-run-in-families/

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

That is a great idea! 

After almost 3 yrs. together Chris still has no intention of making the next steps with Amy. Not getting a house together or moving in together. Nothing. Amy is pretty much on her own with what she is going to do with her life. This is the window of opportunity for them to discuss that. I think Amy is afraid of the answers. Matt and Caryn will get married and Chris and Amy will still be "dating" which is going to deeply hurt Amy. She wants so much more but doesn't have the confidence to tell Chris for fear of losing him. I feel sorry for her.  

I would have agreed with you until last night. I think the groundwork is being laid for Amy's next chapter -- and that might just involve a little wedding.

It's a "thou doth protest too much" situation. So much has been made this season about the fact that Chris and Amy are taking it slowly, don't have any plans, etc. BUT:

- We've now hard Chris talk about his backstory -- fear of commitment because he's been cheated on.

- Amy has been emotionally vulnerable this season, too. So we're seeing both parties lay down their baggage, maybe in preparation for a fresh start.

- Going forward, the show's gonna need a hook for survival, and Matt and Caryn aren't it. We loyal viewers are pretty smart folks, and no one seems to enjoy watching a couple of cheaters make fun of the person on whom they cheated.

- Amy's not perfect, but I think there are quite a few of us who can relate -- as women, as mothers, as people who have been surprised by a turn life has taken, only to pull ourselves up and make better lives for ourselves. Amy was a bullied little girl with little self-esteem who grew into a marginalized wife with even less self-esteem. I, for one, look forward to watching her life take a more positive turn.

- I wouldn't have said this months ago, but I believe I'm in Chris's corner as of late. He's putting in the time and the effort. He's developing relationships with the kids independently of Amy. He willingly visited her emotionally distant parents and tried to make the best of the trip. Initially, he may have been in this to boost his business, but I think that ship has sailed.

Jeremy and Audrey are gone (yay). Zach and Tori can't carry the show. Matt's showing some pretty ugly true colors. Maybe it will be Amy's "second act" that will keep the show afloat. I'm rooting for her.

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

For those boys to continue to suck up to their dad as his obnoxious, dishonest, entitled side piece demeans their mom on camera Is upsetting. Shame on them both.

[Jeremy and Auj Poj]

On 5/25/2019 at 6:27 PM, MissTeacher13 said:

I’m Italian and it’s the same for us- Nonna Firstname, Nonno Firstname. We also say first names for Aunty and Uncle. However, we were never allowed to refer to anyone as Mr or Mrs as it was a sign of disrespect and excluded them from the family. Everyone was an Aunty or Uncle. This tends to get some people’s back up especially if they don’t understand the cultural significance behind it. 

On 5/23/2019 at 9:39 PM, StickStickley said:

In one of Jeremy’s stories today, he showed Amy sitting on the ground playing with Ember. As he walked up to them, he asked Ember if she was playing with “Grandma Amy.” What’s up with that? Is it normal to refer to your kid’s actual, biological grandmother (not to mention your own parent) by name? Why not just Grandma?  God, I hope they don’t call Caryn “Grandma Caryn.” Ugh.

My grandson, 18 months, calls us both "Grandma," so I assume we're going to differentiate with first names.

And I imagine Caryn will receive the unearned "Grandma" title, primarily because Jeremy is dismissive of his mother and Audrey seems to have outright disdain for her. First, I'm sure an LP mother-in-law is pretty far outside her brand; second, I'm sure the fact that Amy and Chris are intimate doesn't sit well with their moral superiority. 

I SO do not miss those two.

[Chris and Amy]

On 6/1/2019 at 6:12 PM, ginger90 said:

4 pictures:

2 pictures:

I hope the twins show the same amount of respect to their mother that they showed Matt when he published the children's book about his dog. I realize there's somewhat of a pattern to my comments as of late; I'm irritated that the boys appear to be showing the same amounts of dismissal and even disdain toward Amy that Matt has always shown.

Matt and Amy each are likely sitting pretty well financially, but my guess is Amy has invested more wisely and been more frugal. Here's my hope: that when Matt passes away, Zach and Jeremy are greeted with, "Sorry -- he blew through it all, and the little that's left is earmarked for Caryn." Then perhaps Amy will get some well-deserved attention -- even for the wrong reasons.

She's not perfect, but SHE parented those kids while Matt busied himself elsewhere. She deserves better.

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

So what do we all think the big decision ends up being?

My prediction: Amy stays put. Chris moves in, maybe. 

For dramatic purposes -- they do need people to watch, after all -- I think Amy has been leading us to believe she's ready for a new start. But I think the big reveal will be that she's decided she has every right to stay exactly where she is; that the legacy of the farm, and the opportunity to share it with her grandkids, is worth more than moving on.

Or I could be totally, entirely wrong. 

 

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

10 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

Jacob has become a high school drop out, unemployed, living with mommy, angry adult?

Not to split hairs, but he did earn his GED.  

I don't worry too much about Jacob. He seems to be a smart, decent guy who respects his mom, and he and his fiancee both seem to have some artistic talent. Much has been written about the anger, and relationships seem to have been mended. He'll figure out one day that he needs to make some money.

I wouldn't be surprised if he harbors some resentment toward Matt for, you know, almost killing him and all.

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

17 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think a part of Amy is bothered by the fact that Zach has formed a good relationship with Matt as an adult.  She fostered one of hostility between them for years.  She wasn't able to do that with the others, no matter how hard she tried.  Zach finally saw through her though. 

I remember all this very differently; I recall that Amy was quite upset, for example, when Matt decided to skip Zach's soccer games because they bored him. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he come close to missing the boys' graduation? 

I think Amy would have been pleased to see Matt step up and be a parent. I'm actually quite disappointed that Zach seems to have forgotten that his mother was his biggest champion.

 

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

2 hours ago, winsomeone said:

I didn't mean to imply that Matt's straying was a good thing or okay. Just meant that Amy is not totally blameless in all that went on is all. How she treated him and kept a pig sty of a house and raised the boys was on TV for all of the world to see. Now suddenly she is this sweet, saintly  shy person..I don't buy it. I don't care for either of them, or Zack and Jeremy. Didn't Jacob receive quite an injury to his head from that pumpkin throwing machine? If so, I wonder how that has affected or caused what he has become today?

The condition of the house certainly was not Amy's sole responsibility. If Matt had time to screw around, rack up DUIs, and start projects he never finished, he could certainly have helped clean the house every now and again. 

Curious about your Jacob comment ... what has he become? 

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

This has to be a coincidence, as the daughter is far too old ... but if you check out Caryn's Instagram, her daughter looks as though she could belong to Matt. Same exact chin, for starters.

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

8 hours ago, winsomeone said:

Sometimes a husband will stray because he has been in a loveless, sexless marriage for years. Always blaming Matt doesn't cut it, when we have no idea what Amy was like to live with. Usually both sides share the blame when a marriage ends, so why is Amy being made the victim here?

If your marriage is loveless and sexless, try to fix it. If you can't, extricate yourself. THEN you can begin fucking the help.

I'm divorced. We had small children at the time. Neither of us cheated, and we each remarried others a few years later. The four of us actually ARE good friends -- because neither my ex nor I violated the other's trust, or dishonored our commitment. We were ill-suited to one another and fought all the time, and realized we needed to change course. It hasn't all been sunshine and roses; we're not perfect. But because we're decent people, we handled a tough situation respectfully and with concern for one another and our kids.

I feel strongly that Amy is legally barred from discussing Matt's cheating on the show -- but as noted, she clearly wasn't barred from discussing it on a podcast. It seems very clear that Matt cheated, and that he cheated with Caryn. 

In light of that, then, I do have to admit to some confusion around the kids' behavior. Although Matt clearly stepped out on Amy, had at least two OWIs during the marriage, and behaved selfishly and irresponsibly even (especially?) when the cameras were rolling, the twins and their wives seem perfectly accepting of him, and of Caryn. Zac and Tori seem accepting of Chris as well -- but, at the risk of oversimplifying, there's nothing for them to resent Chris about. He came along after Matt and Amy parted.

The kids are harder on, and colder toward, Amy. That makes me sad for her. Was she a perfect wife? We all know she wasn't. She's got her demons -- but Matt stepped outside the marriage, thereby violating her trust. So, yes. Technically, she's the victim here.  

 

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

3 hours ago, Dmarie019 said:

Well we see that Matt can't keep his mouth shut from snarky comments about Amy on the show...

Maybe this has been covered, but the fact that Caryn is now making snarky comments about Amy is rubbing me the wrong way. I expect as much from Matt, but I'd like to see Caryn take the high road. 

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

On 5/27/2019 at 8:52 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

If Amy  suspected adultery, she likely has confided this to Chris, but, Chris doesn't seem to have any issue with Matt or Caryn either, so, I tend to believe that it's imaginary or nonexistent. 

My guess is Amy is prevented legally from discussing it on the show. Apparently she is NOT prevented from discussing it on a podcast. 

As far as Chris, I imagine he is simply trying to help Amy move beyond what happened. He mentioned that he was cheated on more than once; I doubt he's in favor of Matt's having conducted himself in that manner, but he also seems to be a pretty logical guy who sees value in helping everyone get along. 

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

On 5/27/2019 at 10:33 AM, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

 I just wonder if Caryn is the unconditional and loving partner Matt thinks she is and if it will last after the glam days are over and the trips and shopping sprees get fewer, etc.  It reminds me of that old saying, be careful what you wish for.

I think it's likely we can all agree that if Matt were simply Matt the accountant or Matt the car salesman, Caryn would have had little interest. If the finances dwindle and the healthcare responsibilities ramp up, I imagine she'll be questioning the relationship.

[All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives]

So much snark, so little time.

I don't dislike Chris, but his petulance in this episode was tiresome. And, my God, Amy, please like him a little less. Just a tiny bit less. I agree with the commenter upthread who surmised that if Chris suggested moving to another state, Amy would have her bags packed immediately. She is a little too all about him for my taste.

And Matt ... sigh. I didn't think it was possible to like him any less, but he is such a selfish, insufferable asswipe. He has bitched for how long now about the DW? And now he wants it because Caryn is more comfortable there, no doubt. 

And what is Caryn's deal, seriously? There wouldn't be enough money in the world to make me even entertain the possibility of involving myself with such a hateful, spoiled son of a bitch.

Speaking of sons, I'd be curious to know what Matt's parents think of his antics. In the older episodes, they were shown as being pretty religious and conservative. Wonder how they justify Matt's having f*cked the help.