[Kim Wexler: She Has a Two-Year Plan]

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

For me, the WTF moment was when she asked Jimmy to marry her after he betrayed her by going ahead with the scene against Mesa Verde.

I relate a lot to Kim and her career path. I just could not fathom what would want to make her marry this man. Yes, it was a hilarious episode but Jimmy’s actions could have gone south really quickly.

That's true but the plan was entirely Kim's so I guess that side of things probably mattered less to her.

To me, the marriage proposal is an example of one of the character twists that does work because I can see the logic.  Jimmy has betrayed her but she knows that really he's right - she got everything she wanted but that she was too afraid to take.  She was just excluded from the decision process at the end.  So instead of dealing with the toxicity, which means losing the only stable relationship she has ever had as far as we can tell, she lawyers down and makes a legal commitment so now she doesn't ever have to be blindsided again.  Of course, it's a strange logic but I find that more plausible than the jump in 510 (although having two such massive character jumps in one season -- and another in 408 with her "Let's do it again" -- makes me think they've been pushing the accelerator a bit too hard).

[Kim Wexler's Own Prequel Series Be Next?]

Actually, really random character who I always thought could make for an interesting spin-off: Billy Gatwood, Kevin's friend who Kim helped in 309.  A version of "Dallas" with a Gilliverse aesthetic seems like it could be a lot of fun.

[Kim Wexler's Own Prequel Series Be Next?]

53 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

More misogyny from BCS watchers - I’ve seen a number of people comment (not here) about how depraved and perverse Kim is because she was turned on by the success of their scam. Maybe, but no one said the same about Jimmy, and he was also into the sex. It’s just so predictable and so disheartening at the same time. 

Interesting - I've replied in the Kim thread as I think it better fits there.

[Kim Wexler: She Has a Two-Year Plan]

Cinnabon in the Kim spin-off thread commented about misogynistic takes on Kim's sexuality which got me thinking.  I've no desire to overturn rocks to see what misogynistic views people have.  That said, I think the treatment of Kim's sexuality as relates to crime is quite distinct from Jimmy's.

It's very clear that Kim is turned on by their criminal enterprises specifically whereas for Jimmy there's no particular link -- if anything, as in 102 (the breadsticks after Tuco), 507? (he stops to confess about Lalo) and the "Something Stupid" montage where he'd hiding his ugly side from Kim and only grows more distance, it's kind of the opposite.  Under normal circumstances, his dark side dampens his ability to connect with Kim either through trauma or worry about lying or because of his own shame.  Whereas time and time again, the times that Kim is the most sexually forward are after their biggest successes: 201 after conning Ken, 206 when she thaws the relationship by initiating a con on the bar cheat, 408 after the Huell scam etc.  Jimmy always looks for closeness, connection and approval from Kim in almost every scene but I can't think I've ever seen him initiate something as a result of a scam.

Now there's nothing intrinsically wrong with using this as a plot point and it's certainly handled far, far better than it was when the same connection happened with Walter White as Jimmy, unlike Skylar, clearly consents.  My interpretation is that with Walt it's a confirmation of his potency in a life where he otherwise feels impotent which -- apart from being about as subtle as a rock on a metaphorical level -- also painted Skylar's character into a corner where any expression of her agency was a challenge to the position of the lead character, an impossible position when the "Mr Chips to Scarface" arc was laid out from the start.  Hence, Skylar is constantly curbing Walt's expressions of virility: rejecting the cars, disguising his role as provider by crediting others, etc.  And Walt is constantly rapacious towards Skylar, whether literally as in 201, or breaking into their house in 302 and into their bed in 501, because in a world where he can't confess to becoming a meth kingpin, the biggest expressions of potency he can muster are to coerce his wife. 

I don't think it's about potency in this sense with Kim -- certainly, you could never look at her and say she's powerless.  It's difficult to tell how much she considers herself a victim.  It partly depends on her interpretation of her relationship with her mother which, her earrings suggest, is at the very least quite complicated.  Also, she has certainly praised individualism in public (praising how Jimmy "bootstrapped" his way into law in 305 and telling Acker to "put on your big boy pants" in 503).  Her whole "I save me" and "I make my own choices" refrain plays into this self-image.  But whether, deep down, she does in fact feel victimised is harder to say -- certainly she sees that there are victims as, after giving the "big boy pants" lecture (which, remember, was for Paige's benefit as much as anyone), she goes back and empathises with Acker.  All her pro bono cases are about helping the downtrodden and while she tough-loves them, she takes their own ability to change themselves seriously -- gaslighting her clients in 501 really hurts her.  Still, I think she sees herself as the Atticus Finch figure rather than a victim in her own right.

However, it's clear that however much or little she has processed it, Kim feels vulnerable and has had to deal with extreme instability in her life.  Indeed, we saw a taste of it post-childhood with the cornfields incident in S2 which in some ways was a corporate replica of the fickle love her mother showed.  I think probably this proved to her that having her fate in someone else's hands as in a traditional corporate structure -- whether Howard or Rich (another "Howard" as her Freudian slip suggests) or even Jimmy -- opens herself up to intolerable compromise.  She could only approach S&C when she would be a partner with discretion over her actions and when Rich tried to pull her collar, she exploded in public.  

On the other hand, she couldn't have been clearer to Jimmy that she did not want him to be a bagman in 508 but there was no judgment or recrimination as a result of the choice that he made -- or even on the "Friend of the Cartel"/"rat" dilemma which clearly could have a huge effect on Kim but where she absolved herself of the choice.  Because these chaotic decisions are not her decisions and are independent of her and she's aware of them so she can (she thinks) mitigate their effects. 

In this context, when so much of her time is tight-ponytail control, the moments when she's won a major victory with Jimmy to me represent not just triumph but release -- the world has become ordered and safe and in line with her expectations, allowing her to unbottle all the emotions that years of experience have taught her to suppress.  Love can only be expressed on her terms and when nobody can kick the chair from under her - even the marriage proposal follows a similar logic.

Jimmy on the other hand doesn't need this outlet.  He just acts out whenever he's aggrieved - bowling balls, the liability insurance, breaking into Chuck's.  He's just as deviant, just in a different way.

[Speculation Without Spoilers]

52 minutes ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

Thinking about random characters, it occurs to me that we'll probably need some kind of finality with the film students.  They've been around since almost the very beginning of the series, and I doubt their involvement in the Howard scam will be their very last appearance.

After Howard's death, I'm now worried for the fate of just about any tertiary character.

I had the same thought but they may stick around as they do fulfil a function: Saul was doing his crazy videos at least as late as S3 of "Breaking Bad" (profiting off the air disaster).  

Theoretically, what have they done that's illegal?  They trespassed on school property to get the flag shot and they answered calls from Ericsson and lied although they weren't under oath.  Even when they're manufacturing evidence, they don't know it's evidence and even if they did, surely it's only evidence at the point it gets used and I'm not sure any of their videos have seen a court-room -- they're designed to influence people like Howard and Kevin before court.  Unless they get in the way of the cartel, and I see no reason why they would, I think they're as likely to survive as anyone.

That said, I do think at some point there will likely be what I can only describe as a "death montage" to wrap up a number of characters.

Gus, Mike, Hector, Victor, Tyrus, Bolsa, Krazy-8, Leonel & Marco, Lydia, Tuco, Gale, Gomez plus Walt if he appears all have been introduced into the BCS storyline and will end up dead.  I always thought we'd get a Howard montage with him trying to assemble the case against Saul and seeing all these deaths piling up.

I do think there will be the death of a character or characters who are, to Jimmy, inconsequential but which happen directly as a result of his say-so.  Not only does that set up death as a go-to solution for his character in BB but it also bookends the way he rescued the twins in 102.  My guess is that this will be a character or characters we've already met but who don't mean an awful lot to Saul or Kim.  

My guess would be either the skater twins from 102 or the "nitwits" as Vince Gilligan called them from 502.  They wanted to fold the skaters back into the Howard plot but it didn't go in that direction and the nitwits are probably still serving time.

Outside chance of course he goes after people in the legal community, especially if they're close to connecting him to Lalo.  But Jimmy's default is to scam his way out rather than kill.  I guess if Cliff Main had a large amount of evidence at his offices, I could see them burning it to the ground and that could lead to the death of characters like Cliff, Erin and perhaps even Omar, which would be a bigger blow to Jimmy.

There are also Pryce and Mrs Nygen but I tend to think they'll be involved in Saul's world during the BB as the laser tag and nail salon business owners Saul wants Walt and Jesse to invest in.

Just as long as Ernesto survives...

6 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I also remember reading somewhere that the original plan after they got to this version of the show was Jimmy breaking bad much much earlier, like maybe after the Chuck "chimp with a machine gun" reveal and Jimmy blowing off the David & Main offer in the season one ender. But then in looking at it they realized how much further down they still really wanted to go and of course AMC was amenable to the show becoming Breaking Bad lite and began the buildup to bringing back Gus and the cartel.

I think they talked about how Saul might well have his office by the end of S1 and it was during the breaking of S1 that they realised it wouldn't be that fast.  If you look at how Jimmy is drawn into the cartel world in S5, you can see how this could have really followed at any time after 103.

Also, one of their original concepts for Chuck was as a Mycroft Holmes to Jimmy's Sherlock Holmes -- the even smarter brother who was cut from the same cloth.  Although they kept Chuck's intelligence, it seems Kim has essentially grown into the Mycroft role.

[Kim Wexler's Own Prequel Series Be Next?]

Rhea Seehorn is already playing at least a decade younger, closer to two, than she actually is, so a prequel is a complete non-starter.

Depending on how her story ends, there could be room for a sequel series but I tend to think these work better when they're dealing with side-characters who were underdeveloped in the progenitor show.  Saul was perfect because he was an interesting character but, in BB, really only operated as a function of the plot.  But we've really been on Kim's journey as much as Jimmy's especially since S2 so it would feel very strange to spin-off someone as central.

As much as I love the universe, I do think direct sequels are probably done.  I would love to see something set in the same world but not spinning off an obvious character -- another artistic neo-noir set in ABQ with the same aesthetic and sensibilities and with the potential for some of the same background characters to pop up.  Turn the Gilliverse into something like the Askewniverse.  I think that could work -- but you also have to wonder what benefits the tie to BB will ultimately deliver if ultimately the only real crossover is, I dunno, bringing back Detective Tim.

Vince Gilligan did say he was trying to get a new show off the ground so he could keep the same crew and that it would be something quite different.  My guess is that he might do something that goes back to his sci-fi roots a bit more - or, heck, he could even go into something flat-out comedic.  While I like Vince a lot, I'm at least as interested in seeing where Peter Gould, Tom Schnauz and in particular Gordon Smith go.  Plus there are other great BB alums out there -- what's Moira Walley-Beckett doing since "Anne with an E" ended?  And with "Rings of Power" gearing up to release, is Gennifer Hutchison still working on it or might she get her own thing?

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

I think the nature and extent of their guilt is purposefully nebulous - I suspect there will be another line to cross in Jimmy's descent where a murder occurs directly on his instigation.

Incidentally, one thing that the twist about the PI clears up -- the show is so good at reusing small characters and one character actor that they talked on the commentary about being really pleased to be able to use was the PI in 301 and 302.  Therefore, I was surprised they didn't return to him for this season.  Of course, now it makes sense -- if Howard had just called Chuck's PI, Jimmy and Kim's plan would have been ruined.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

I recognised Patrick Fabian as a cheating professor from "Veronica Mars" and a cheating businessman from "24", roles where he was decent but felt like he was playing into a particular type, so when he turned up in BCS, I was prepared to be underwhelmed.  Of course, I shouldn't have had any doubt and he's been one of my favourites for a long time.  He's marvellous and I hope he gets a lot more work as a result.

That said, while Howard is one of my favourites and Patrick Fabian has definitely been underrated, if there's an Emmy shout for this half-season it has to be Michael Mando.  The range needed for that role this year, from the extreme physicality to the emotional intensity is off the charts.  Granted, it's partly just luck that, as much as Fabian had to do in his final script, Mando had more.  And sometimes these decisions are just weird - I could see Rhea Seehorn being recognised out of guilt for unjustly missing out in previous years, although I don't think 6A has been as strong a showcase of her range as a lot of seasons (I'm sure 6B will be).  Michael Mando though just ran with that role and delivered a true tour-de-force ending.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think Nacho and Howard are different.  Nacho's death served the purpose of closing some doors. It easier for Gus and Mike to keep moving on their set paths towards the BB time line. Lalo's death would do the same.  But they're used to bloody deaths.

True but I kind of hoped after six years, the death would be more consequential than "that's the end of that."  Of course, it was powerful in its own right and did give a nice shape to Nacho's arc but I wanted, like Chuck's death, to see it really changing the trajectory of the show and I just don't see that.

During 603, we got a little of Mike's development, seeing the world through his eyes - evidently, there's a progression that's happening with his relationship to killing.  But arguably, Werner was a bigger breakpoint for him.  I assumed that he would be the one to teach Gus that love is a better motivator than fear although I'm not sure that's necessarily the case.  And of course Jimmy barely knows Nacho, which is probably one of my biggest disappointments: for all these years, it's seemed like there was this big history to the two characters but we got 95% of their interactions after episode 104.

My hope is that the promise to save Manuel Varga becomes important to Mike in his character's endgame.  However, I can't see that anyone (except perhaps Hector) would really care about Manuel now.  Clearly Nacho will be mentioned again in some form as Jimmy knows in BB to blame him but I can't see there being a lot to come.

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Howard's death wouldn't serve any narrative purpose as is the way Nacho's did. Kim and Jimmy aren't used to bloody murder in front of them.  And we know they likely have some ground to cover to get Jimmy/Saul to get to the guy we saw in Breaking Bad.  And we don't know where Kim is. I guess it's possible she's still around in the BB timeline and we are where they'll be but I tend to think not. 

Actually I can see Howard's death driving a lot more of the second half of the season.  Just logistically, the disappearance of the head of a major ABQ law firm would send a lot of ripples through the relatively small legal world and even if nobody knows that Jimmy and Kim witnessed it, Cliff at least might have a sense that something was not right with the switched PI numbers and think to follow up on Howard's Jimmy accusations.  Not to mention, of course, the emotional consequences of having brought him low and being responsible for him ending up in the same room as Lalo, even though that was never their intention.

One connecting theme that they might elucidate in the back half, which might salvage all of this, is the idea of being forgotten and everything being left behind.  We started 601 with a "Citizen Kane" survey of all the stuff Jimmy had, which is all now left behind.  We have a sense that Kim hasn't carried any material objects -- except, we now learn, for the earrings -- from her old life.  Chuck's objects literally burned away and the idea of "picking up a keepsake or two" was met with explosive scorn. 

We've seen how Chuck survives: a painting on the wall, a fond memory from Howard, an unspoken ghost for Jimmy and Kim, and a "who's that?" from the junior HHM partners.  If HHM folds without Howard (and perhaps unable to recover from the scandal that its doubly-named partner went crazy in a meeting and then vanished into the night), what becomes of Chuck's legacy?  Is the Chuck portrait going to be "cleaned up" - sold or binned - just like Saul's in 601?  Is the dedication plate on his library going to be unscrewed?  How does his scholarship fund operate? 

What remnants are left when "the game" is done?

Mike will be remembered by his granddaughter but I suspect it won't be the money (if Mike can even find another way to get it to her) but the stories and the time spent that she'll truly remember. 

I hope that somehow Mike can convey to Manuel the goodness Nacho displayed at the end but if not he's only to be remembered by the audience and as a flower blooming in the desert.

And does Mike manage to save the town (and fountain) dedicated to Max or is that all to be washed away -- we already saw the Los Pollos Hermanos frontage being expunged in 502 of "Breaking Bad" and of course Walt and then Uncle Jack essentially inherited the meth empire.

Chuck and Howard will be more or less forgotten.  

And what legacy has Kim left?  Even Viola is unlikely to think fondly of her if even a fraction of what she's done comes out.

Ironically, given her reaction to seeing Kevin's display of bank branch models, the biggest tactile legacy she probably will have is the Lubbock branch of Mesa Verde.  (Bizarre though it would be, imagine in the finale if Jimmy and Kim meet up in the Lubbock branch in the "extended part" -- one of the few tangible legacies they have and perhaps even then Mesa Verde is now going under and the building is going to be repurposed.)

Saul, of course, was remembered as Gene is now experiencing.  Even then, time will erase that, like the VHS playback on the opening credits.

I'm reminded of Shakespeare: "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."  Both parts certainly seems to be true of Chuck, Nacho and Howard, and Kim's mother if she's dead.  I guess we'll see what Jimmy leaves behind at the end.

(Less grandly, one legacy of both deaths -- which I'd file under the "neat" category with the can/silencer imagery rather than anything that was necessarily planned -- is that the symbols left behind after their deaths kind of match the "wine and roses" theme.  Nacho survives as a desert rose.  Howard's whiskey (?) bottle will still be left on the counter alongside Jimmy and Kim's wine when all is said and done with Lalo.)

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

4 minutes ago, Starchild said:

So then...sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?

Yes, except... they still chose that one movie out of many available.  And presumably there were multiple people who looked and thought about it.  (They've also integrated the classic movie motif pretty effectively by now from the "Ice Station Zebra" references to the frequent referencing of "Days of Wine and Roses").

Similarly, Tom Schnauz on the podcast also debunked the idea floating around that the rotating can was designed to act as a symmetry to the rotating silencer Lalo uses at the end.  That wasn't intended.  And yet... it does actually mirror really elegantly and once you see it, it's hard (for me at least) to unsee.  Perhaps there was a subconscious element - the clients getting a surprise part was clearly a deliberate nod so it's not so far from the same concept.  Or perhaps it's serendipity lending the project a hand.  Clearly, there are many instances where these symmetries are designed and intended (including the cockroach callback just minutes before).  If the reading enriches the show, I don't think it's a problem if it wasn't originally foreseen.  It's just neat.

[S06.E06: Axe and Grind]

10 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Can you remind me of this?

How do you remember all these details?

It was in 105 when she talked about Jimmy getting into elder law:

Quote

"No, I'm serious. I... I've thought about getting into elder law myself. I watched my grandmother at the end. It's... It's awful what people have to deal with... Insurance companies, my scumbag cousins stealing her savings and her pain meds. Getting old sucks. Seniors need someone on their side."

As for remembering - well I try to do a rewatch before each new season as the show rewards close attention so some of the earlier episodes I've seen quite a bit now.  Plus if you vaguely remember a quote or a few key words you can usually find a transcript (as above) or if you vaguely remember the episode, it's usually easy enough to scan through to find the scene on Netflix thanks to the image preview window.

[S06.E06: Axe and Grind]

Two more thoughts on this linked to the U-turn.

A reason for Kim to be determined to punish Howard:

Kim had a deep response to Chuck's death.  She was clearly wracked with guilt in 306 about what they did and was devastated in 403.  She also was very clear with Howard in 307 and later that he was the one misrepresenting the situation with Chuck for his own profit.  Is it possible that one of the reasons she feels so comfortable targeting Howard is because he reminds her of the relatives who took advantage of her grandmother and she actually feels some sympathy (or at least empathy) for Chuck's mental health condition?  It would need some explaining but I guess I could see something like this at least going some way to squaring the circle on Kim's character.

A reason for Kim to want to avoid Cliff's donors lunch:

The idea of people who "give a little bit to charity" to undo the harms they do was mocked by Everett Acker and we've seen the strings-attached hypocrisy of this sort of thing in the lawyer world as in 410.  She was fairly free at S&C to pursue her pro bono clients but then had her collar pulled about what "keeps the lights on".  She doesn't like to be beholden to others so self-financing her endeavours (albeit via grifting) probably seems like a more stable option -- she's always had to be self-reliant and she of course has that hot-and-cold mother to warn her off relying on others.

Of course, both theories require us to ignore/doubt evidence in the way she reacted - e.g., in this episode, delighted at the news from Cliff.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

I don't think the professional humiliation really touched Chuck.  Sure, it hurt him, but it wasn't critical.  Chuck was fine immediately after losing HHM.  You can actually see his diary in "Lantern" and he identifies the pain felt in the two days leading prior to his change.  Also note that the healthiest he is for the whole show are the weeks after the bar hearing during which he knows that professional repercussions are possible and even during the time when he's battling with Howard.  There's a bit of play acting necessary with Howard but unlike with Rebecca, it's not a complete fabrication: he just needs to use his strategies to ground himself.  It's after Jimmy's arrival that his emotional state keeps spiking upwards: with no pressure valve for that pain, it vents into delusion and he's subsumed by it.

My interpretation is that if Jimmy had kept away, Chuck wouldn't have died at that point and may have been able to rebuild his life sufficiently and maintain his therapy to the point where relapse episodes could be avoided or at least mitigated.

I'm not sure Howard's life was "ruined" either.  The firm would have done very well in the short-term thanks to the settlement which would have smoothed things over with the board.  His doctor would have cleared him of having drugs in his system and his friends and colleagues are largely quite loyal it seems.  It would be humiliating and might cost him business over the long-term but he's come back from worse as he himself admitted.  Kim and Jimmy weren't wrong that he had shoulders broad enough to absorb what they were doing.  The problem with their plan wasn't that it was intrinsically a bad plan if there was some kind of utilitarian rationale -- that they desperately needed seed money for the pro bono work.  The problem was that it was unnecessary (Jimmy literally has $100k in cash lying around and business is booming), counterproductive to everything they say they want (Kim ignored the opportunity Cliff offered to get something bigger going) and utterly spiteful.

I think it's interesting to compare Chuck's death with Howard's and Nacho's.  With Chuck, you had the sense that the whole world was different as a result of his death and, let's face it, his character arc had really played itself through pretty fully.  With Nacho and Howard, it feels like they just ran out of road and were out of time so they shuffled them off.  I guess we'll see in the back six but I'm not sure how deeply their deaths are likely to resonate -- I think I'm right that Nacho hasn't been mentioned since.

And for Howard, it does feel like basically the same territory that was covered with Chuck - a death where Jimmy has some culpability but can't reasonably have been expected to foresee how things would turn out.  I can't help but feel that if this show were able to go onto seasons 7 and 8, we'd instead have seen Howard go on, trying to take on Saul with Saul having to at least consider Belize-like solutions -- however, since that's not happening, they needed a quick exit hatch.  I think one of the things I find disappointing is that for all the chaos Jimmy has sewn, we've yet to see any robust, coherent case against him -- Chuck's was narrow entrapment rather than a comprehensive deconstruction of his behaviour.  In BB, we did ultimately get the satisfaction of watching Hank piece everything together.  I guess there's hint that Ericsson and perhaps Cliff might pursue this but it's late in the day for that and they're tertiary characters -- surely this role should have been Howard's.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

16 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I agree. Kim is not soulless at all. And while she's been grinding viewers' gears for awhile now, I think her turning the car around and blowing off the legal justice meeting to frantically regroup so Howard's orchestrated downfall goes on as planned is completely inconsistent with her character. I get that she is singularly focused and does not like to leave things unfinished, but this whole "equal legal representation for everyone" goal has been her priority for a long time.

And I am not sure I really understand her hatred of Howard. I guess he represents everything she thinks is wrong with the legal system and is basically classism personified, but she has always been principled in her own way and this doesn't track.

What I do think is interesting about Kim is that I do think she has the ability that Jimmy lacks to justify things to herself. She doesn't have to feel guilt that way.

Yes, I think everything is a conscious choice for her: her whole thing is to own your decisions whereas Chuck was absolutely right that Jimmy will do something terrible, feel genuine remorse but then not be able to help himself doing the same thing again.  

Time was, I could buy into her 510 swerve (even though I didn't like it at the time) where I thought we might see a rationale of some description emerging.  It benefits her clients, it focuses Jimmy's mischief on something less destructive than the cartel etc. etc.  But the 606 swerve completely derails that.  It's really clear why Jimmy dislikes Howard but even he says "he doesn't deserve" what they're doing to him but there's nothing like this for Kim - yes, she dislikes him, but to torpedo her dream gig?  

Which leaves the other interpretation which is that it isn't about Howard at all but is simply an addiction to grifting - the "Wine and Roses" take.  But the thing is with that film, there's quite a lot of push and pull along the way between the two characters with them pushing and relapsing.  Again, I come back to the show's internal timeframe because it blows my mind that Kim is only a month or so removed from relative normality.  I guess spiking Lalo's guns may feel like a major step in her confidence but if the halcyon days of Jimmy and Kim's marital scamming is this plot against Howard, I feel a little cheated of some wine and roses.

Somewhere I'm sure they said that the decision to go this way with Kim was a relatively late decision.  I do feel like there's an element of panic that set in late S5 when they realised that the show was ending, had to end just from the point of view of the actors' ages making a prequel series ever-less-sustainable.  But the characters were nowhere near where they needed to be.  So they jumped the tracks with Kim and have tried to smudge it over by saying they want to preserve the character's mystery.  The weird thing is that they constantly have characters question this (Jimmy in 510: "This isn't you"; Huell in 604: "Why you do all this?"; Howard in this episode).  After a while, it feels less like teasing a mystery and more like hanging a hat on a plot hole.

3 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I found the scene wherein Kim berates Howard.  To help the discussion, here it is:

Frankly, Kim was accurate with her analysis.  Howard didn't tell Rebecca what he told Jimmy and Kim.  

Still, I would not use "cruel" or "despicable" to describe what Howard did, since they connote an intent to do harm, and even Kim acknowledged that Howard spoke because he felt guilty.  My preferred term is "crappy".  

On a slight tangent but I can't believe what a light ride Rebecca gets -- I think she's vile.  She knows Chuck's mentally ill but apparently vacates the scene after 306.  Is there any indication she checked in?  Any indication that she really tried other than a forlorn visit in 306?  Any letters?  Does she reach out to Howard to establish a care plan?  You know if she had Jimmy's gumption, she'd have arranged a whole orchestra to serenade Chuck out.

But instead, she slinks off and lays into Jimmy for not standing by his brother -- when Jimmy looked after him thanklessly for years while she was oblivious.  I can understand that obliviousness to some extent as Chuck is good at hiding his vulnerabilities but in court she watched an absolute demonstration that Jimmy was at the heart of Chuck's condition -- and yet, she still wanted to guilt Jimmy into "doing right" by Chuck, despite being the one person that would almost certainly make Chuck worse.  

In no way is that about what's right for Chuck, or even what's morally right in the absolute.  It's about absolving herself of the need to take any responsibility by passing the buck on.  (For that matter, Jimmy was Chuck's family and if she had any loyalty to Chuck, she might well have been concerned enough to follow up with Jimmy too.) 

Of course, you could argue that she bears no responsibility for a man she divorced -- okay, fine, but by the same token why should Jimmy bear responsibility for a family member he's decided to disown? She at least at one time had made a legal commitment to Chuck; Jimmy had been screwed over by Chuck at every turn.  And it seems clear that the divorce was on some level intermeshed with the development of his condition.

She has no real logistical issues to putting her money where her mouth is.

Money?  She divorced a senior law partner.

Career?  She's a musician who works internationally which doesn't seem very faddy -- besides, surely many people take career breaks to care for sick relatives.  

Time?  Well, if she paused her career, she'd have plenty of time.

Of course, I understand why she would want to walk away - she doesn't, technically, owe Chuck anything.  But if that's what you're doing, own it and shut up.

Instead, she's an absolute hypocrite who expects Jimmy to bear the burdens of her bleeding heart.

[Better Call Saul In The Media]

Quote

But somehow you are with them for the ride, and I feel like I'm laughing with them, watching Howard fall apart.

Interesting interview with Tom Schnauz on the AMC site.  But on the above quote, I have to say, I totally disagree and from the comments here, I feel like they completely misread the sympathies of the audience.  Certainly for my part, I don't think any of the Howard prank stuff was funny at all, and a lot of it was really quite cringey to watch.  I did, to be fair, think the Huell and Mesa Verde scams were really funny though.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

Kim was deeply affected by Chuck's death.  At the time, we took this as guilt for her complicity in tearing him down (which she definitely felt in 306).  I do wonder whether the "died screaming" was a projection from her past though.  Did she lose a relative in a similar manner?

This is what makes the whole "soulless sociopath" thing difficult for me to believe.  We know that Kim isn't soulless and yet since 510, they've basically dumped the reasonable, sane side of her personality completely.  That description matches the last eight episodes but I don't find it remotely chimes with the totality of the 57.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

He's only visited Saul at home once before.

Lalo heard from Nacho about how Jimmy handled Tuco and hired him to get Krazy-8 to feed false information to the DEA to frame Gus.  Then he re-hired him to defend him when he was arrested for murdering the man at the Travel Wire and asked him to collect his bail money.  Saul arrived late but said his car had broken down which was fine but then, on his way to Mexico, Lalo tracked down the car and found it in the ditch with bulletholes.  He went to Jimmy and Kim's defence was that, in New Mexico, kids would likely have used it to take shots and said that if Lalo can't trust his men, he has bigger problems than if he can trust Saul Goodman.

Now Lalo knows that Nacho was the one who double-crossed him and he was introduced to Saul through Nacho.  On the other hand, he also likes Saul and finds him useful for his cockroach-like survival capabilities and the fact that he has a wife who evidently loves him (as she went to see him when he disappeared) which makes him easy to control. 

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

Howard being there at that specific moment is a massive coincidence.  I know Vince Gilligan's rule is that coincidences that get your characters out of trouble are bad but ones that get them into trouble are fine.  But it still does feel like a massive reach really.

However, in the broader sense, Howard getting caught up in all this was absolutely foreseeable (and, on this forum, foreseen).  They knew Lalo was out there when they started this -- and, again it's worth remembering how compressed the timeline is, to the point where "Bad Choice Road" happened 3-4 weeks ago. And Kim knew he was still a threat and that they were being watched by people in the cartel "game".  And yet, into this powder keg, they launched a plan which hinged on getting Howard to call a PI on Jimmy and for Howard to want to come after Jimmy and poke into his affairs, one of the most lurid of which involved the cartel.  Both of them know that Lalo has absolutely no problem killing civilians.  It's not that it was likely he would die but the possibility that he would stumble into something was never off the table entirely.

I actually wonder what their plan for damage controlling Howard was because he had said, predictably (despite "Namaste"), that he wouldn't let it drop and I believe him.  He might not be as effective at Chuck at figuring out Jimmy's angles but I think he would have been a difficult and thorny problem and the situation could easily have escalated to a point where they needed to be much more severe with Howard to end it.  

I tend to think that this is the path most of BCS would have gone down - more of a slow burn ending in chaos - but now we're at the end of the road, the rug needed to be pulled.  That does give it a different flavour from Chuck's death and frankly watching Jimmy and Kim this season hasn't been a whole lot of fun so watching them take further action against Howard would have been even more grim so this was a way of getting the audience back with Jimmy and Kim.  

Still, it fits the whole 0 to 100 feeling the show has had since mid-S5.  For me, as much as I love the show and most of the character progression has been spot on, there have been two major moral leaps that didn't feel earned: Jimmy deciding to take Lalo's offer and Kim deciding to go after Howard.  For all the mischief they've wreaked in previous years, these were the clear moral breaking points and this comeuppance was directed at both of these sins.

The problem is, the show wants to have its cake and eat it.  It's so often a show about process, about meticulously building the dominos and then toppling them over, but in this case it also wants the characters to be a bit opaque so there's an element of mystery.  But the risk with this is the process then isn't illuminating about character and it becomes... just process.  And this season has done a lot with Jimmy and Kim where they're running around doing things but even characters in the show are like, "Wait, why??".  I come back to episodes like "Five-O" and "Salud" which still had the slow, deliberate process stuff but absolutely gave us insight into Mike and Gus.  In the remaining six episodes, I hope we get new insights into Jimmy, Kim, Mike and Gus but I get the sense that Peter Gould thinks that explaining his characters cheapens them or would be disappointing which seems like a misstep to me.  (Especially since they deliberately had Mike answer the same question in "Bagman" and we still are debating the fact that the granddaughter excuse doesn't hold because we remember how he behaved in "Talk" and the start of S5 when he didn't have his battle with the cartel to focus his rage).

Still, my hope is that usually it's the explosion afterwards that really gets to the heart of matters.  Chuck's confrontations with Jimmy in 109, Kim in 208 and Jimmy again in 310 were all after things had exploded.  For that matter, "Ozymandias" was far more a character piece than "To'hajilee".  And whatever my disappointments about aspects of the way they've been handling the wrap-up, these are still the best writers in the business.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

Few other things:

I loved the return to Chuck.  He's such a huge part of the show but he's very rarely mentioned.  I think the show really needs to cycle back to explore the impact of Chuck's death on Jimmy and Kim more directly and I hope we get that before the end.  

I really liked Howard's comment about Chuck being the greatest legal mind: "Maybe there are more important things."  I think it shows a maturity, an insight and perhaps an empathy for Jimmy in a funny way.

The can trick was awesome.  Also we saw lots of Howard's skills - his ability to remember even little interpersonal details.

This was also an incredible episode for the broader cast.  The show has done such a stellar job of cultivating this little world of fascinating people.  Mrs Landry is a delight and I'm so glad she returned.  There were lots of lovely comedy moments with the camera nerds and Erin.  I also love seeing Rich back - great character and the way he treads the line with Cliff of sympathy and doing his job is incredible.  The extended cast of this show is really terrific and they're well-utilised.

I wonder if Cliff will speak to Erin and deduce, like Lalo, that there's someone else on the line.  It's a fascinating parallel...

I love how Cliff and Rich look at the judge - it must be such an old spiel but they also have this respect.  And then there's Julie who has been there all along and gets quite a lot to do here.

While Howard's death is absolutely on Jimmy and Kim (and frankly, in this case, more Kim than Jimmy since she took it down the Howard road at every turn), there is a slight irony that the one time he turned his back on his "namaste" creed and declared war was the time that he died.  I also think it's interesting that Nacho's death was symbolised by the flower and one of the key images in Howard's death was the candle flame.  I'm not sure if it's more than coincidence but knowing how symbolic the show can be I wonder.

It's interesting how each season of BCS has a similarity in its underlying structure.  Each one builds progressively to a big legal case in mid-late season which has at its heart a scam.  Chuck was the scammer in 108-109, but then it was Jimmy and the Mesa Verde files in 208, Jimmy and Kim in 305, Jimmy and Kim definitely breaking the law in 408, and then Jimmy and Kim again in 506.  I actually enjoy the law side of the show quite a bit but although sadly I doubt we'll see much of that part of the show again now, seeing these diverse examples of lawyerly procedure feels really fresh and interesting.

Lastly, there's a line reading that really stands out from Patrick Fabian.  He does a take on "you were right" that sounds uncannily reminiscent of Jimmy in 410 at the point where Kim realises that she's been played.  It's so close that I feel like it can't be a coincidence.  I'm not sure if it was a directorial decision or an actor's choice but I feel like there has to be an extra level of pain in that for Kim.

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

I don't think there's a thing that Kim or Jimmy could have done to save Howard by the end of the story:

1. Lalo must have heard him threaten Jimmy and Kim.  

2. Howard saw his face and could ID him.  

3. He's on the clock: he's managed to pull Gus's people off their usual positions but he must know there's a chance they'll be watching Saul since he's a known associate.

4. Having let them live once before, he really needs his legal team... fully focused.

5. He really doesn't care about another living soul so why wouldn't he kill Howard?

[S06.E07: Plan and Execution]

15 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I don't buy Kim's devolution. I just don't.

She's always enjoyed a good con, and over the years she's taken bigger and bigger risks. But she always had a pretty strong sense of right and wrong.

Or at least she did, until she dealt with that repulsive old man last season (the one who wanted to keep his house). We're supposed to believe that when he pointed out that she was representing the rich and powerful, a flip switched inside of her. And suddenly she threw away her moral compass, and decided that any crazy scam could be justified if she convinced herself that she was taking down the powerful.

No, I don't buy it. I might have believed her doing all of this, if Howard was using some horribly sleazy tactic that was really screwing over the Sandpiper residents. Under those circumstances, I could see Kim convincing herself that destroying his reputation would be justified.

But this turn to the dark side is just too far. In a short period of time, she's become unrecognizable as the character she used to be.

This.  I love the show and I'm sad to say it but... this.  They just about kept her on track for most of Series 5, although even then it was getting tenuous, but since 510 it feels like they've really lost the thread with her and aren't trying all that hard to find it. 

I mean, in show-time it's only max three months since she was crying in a stairwell because she had told a benign lie to a client in 501.  I trust that there'll be a Jimmy/Kim postmortem, probably as they bury Howard, and hopefully that will shed light but it feels like Howard's conclusion was the one we were supposed to concur with.

All that said, I did love the episode and I love that Patrick Fabian got his own "Rock and Hard Place". 

I avoided the spoilers that were out there in specifics but I did see a lot of articles talking about "maybe Howard will die" which frankly I hadn't seen coming and which made me wonder if there were leaks.  Coupled with the warning for suicide I thought this would end with Howard killing himself.

But it's another absolute genius pay-off: if you recall Lalo calling Saul a "cockroach", from the second he sees the cockroach in the sewer you know where he's heading.

So as soon as Howard arrived in the apartment, it was obvious there was only one exit for him even before Lalo arrived.

I don't love that Howard, like Nacho, spent 6 years being highly peripheral, has one episode in the sun being righteous and then gets shot in the head.  With both characters it feels a bit "too little, too late".

And yet as ever, the episode was masterfully put together.  The scam was fascinating, the law scenes superb, the acting on point.  Lalo was too strong a flavour last season when he featured but here he's perfect -- lurking in the shadows and piecing everything together.  I was surprised he called Hector but at least he figured out that the phone was bugged.  I guess Lalo didn't have reason to think Gus knew he was alive but what an amazing way to write two ultra-intelligent characters.  Amazing.

[S06.E06: Axe and Grind]

On another note, I'm intrigued by where the black book goes.  The indication was that the vet would be willing to sell it (and presumably Jimmy will soon be in a position to buy it).  I wonder what happens to it ultimately though.  Is it possible it ends up with Kim?

Another interesting aspect of that scene was how Jimmy couldn't understand how he could walk away from that passive income and Kim says something like "he knows what he wants."  And yet, at the end, Kim doesn't walk (or drive) away.

I'm also still intrigued by why they chose Casper of all the Germans to come back but I'm glad they did.  His "he was worth fifty of you" showed his closeness to Werner and seemingly his goodness so I certainly felt more tense for him.

It's kind of crazy that we're now teetering on the half-way mark through the last season and the Saul/Mike plots are still practically on different planets.  There have been hints at a crossover, and obviously the Kim/Mike scene was a major step, but I always assumed they'd eventually dovetail the storylines.

Also didn't realise that Mrs Hamlin is Sandrine Holt who was Martha Logan's aide on "24".  As bad as she came across, I wonder what Howard actually did to warrant Howard wanting to offer a "peace" sign.

[S06.E06: Axe and Grind]

I think it's telling that my post garnered two really interesting and thoughtful, but completely different interpretations.  And to be fair, clearly there's some Venn diagram overlap in Kim between a personal dislike of Howard and a dislike of what he more broadly represents, but I'm not sure either feels like enough to root a character on.

Absolutely the cornfields thing was the wrong move and even Chuck acknowledged it but I just never got any sense that this was the root of some burning enmity.  Even going back to the scene where she quits, the way it's played is not of some seething undercurrent of resentment.  And I just don't see why a slight two years ago that ultimately backfired badly is worth torpedoing your dream in the here and now.  (And just narratively, if they wanted us to make that connection, I think even as internal a show as this one would at least mention the cornfields incident obliquely after all this time.)

The idea that he represents something is interesting and is certainly consistent with the way Kim went after Kevin.  I think this is where they'll go with it but she's spent all this time fitting into that world and although I could see this as a motivation, I don't think it justifies such a radical break.

My own view was that Kim could take a perfectly rational -- if unethical and highly ill-judged -- rationale that scamming Howard was for the greater good.  A "career setback for one lawyer", especially one who probably had it coming anyway, absolutely could be seen in a utilitarian worldview as acceptable collateral damage in something that will clearly do so much good.  I also thought there was an element of her looking to turn Jimmy's penchant for trouble-making to her own ends and thereby control an otherwise loose cannon.  But this final scene basically blows that motive up.

My worry is that the way Peter Gould talks he seems to think it would be reductive to add details that would really explain her motive.  I'm just sure that's true though.  I don't think Hamlet is less complex because his motives are crystal clear to the audience.  More to the point, Gus was a much stronger character in BB where we found out new things about him at a fairly steady cadence than here where we really have no major new biographical insight in the past four years.  Or Mike who was deeply enriched by "Five-O".  The worry seems to be that explaining will be disappointing but if you explain well, it's enriching, as the show itself has proved.

Anyway, we'll see, and I certainly hope they do manage it.

There a lot of other good bits to note.  I love that the earrings get an origin.  It amazes me how many little objects get whole backstories on this show.

I also love the "cross" shot of them driving off on D-Day.  Didn't catch what was causing the cross - will need to rewatch.

49 minutes ago, suzeecat said:

While I appreciate every detail that the writers, directors and producers painstakingly include, I was wondering, and still do, why we had to put up with Mike stargazing with his granddaughter.  They move so slowly through scenes like this, like we're supposed to be watching v-e-r-r-y closely for clues, but I think this was just a distraction.  Or, do they call it a "red herring"?

I feel like this was really just about showing the sacrifices Mike is making.  This is completely of his own doing -- both in "Talk" and in early S5 we learned that he's unable to handle his pain.  And it's led him to erect a literal as well as a metaphorical barrier between him and his loved ones.  Mike/Kayleigh scenes can border on the twee but this works for me and I think it's important.  It's also, frankly, nice to see Mike's character existing in his own right, not just as an agent of Gus as he has been for most of the season.

[S06.E06: Axe and Grind]

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I think the writers have given Kim plenty of rational basis for having a hatred of Howard, and have hinted strongly as to why that hatred has reached irrational dimensions. We'll see if it is further illuminated.

Really?  They worked together for years.  He gave her the truth about Chuck when he wouldn't give it to anyone else.  Yes, he put her in the corn fields but in narrative terms this was years ago.  She took a job as partner alongside someone she Freudean-slipped her way into admitting was another Howard.  Their run-ins haven't been entirely cordial but I just don't get the sense of some burning desire for vengeance and if so, for... what?  Transferred rage because he's the totem of an unjust system?  Tit-for-tat for trying to sink her without cause?  And when it's balanced against something that is an unambiguous flat-out win, everything she ever wanted on a plate potentially?

I understood why Walt would turn down Grey Matter to cook meth.  It was horrible but you could see that overwhelming pride.  I just don't get how the scales balance here.  Even assuming it's (as Kim once said) the fallacy of sunk costs... she's sunk everything into her pro bono business as well.  I just don't feel this.  What am I missing?

[S06.E06: Axe and Grind]

I loved this episode but the last scene... I just don't get it.  I mean, at this point, there is absolutely no external reason to want the money.  It's purely about Howard or... whatever it is.  But the whole thing is so opaque and there's just no indication they're even planning to elucidate.  The teaser was great and I'm so glad it was in there but it didn't really give us anything especially new.  It's great that Kim is internally motivated but we're at the point where we really just need to know what those motivations are and I'm kind of fed up with the folderol.

Mike and his daughter - lovely scene and one of the most moving ones.  I don't know we learned much from it though.

Lalo's scene was great.  I completely expected it to be Kai he tracked down so this was a surprise.  Great location and terrific tension.

Howard - at the start of the episode, I hoped it was going to be a big Howard episode but he petered out.  However, the scene with his wife is heartbreaking.  The coffee in particular was perfectly played.  That said, I have to question why the wife is only now being introduced so very late if she's to play any part at all besides just giving us a glimpse into Howard's home life.

Francesca's great - her doomed renovation is one of the more fun ways the show has used foreknowledge of "Breaking Bad".

I liked the way the vet was given a cap.  Kim going straight for the best quality vacuum is either foreshadowing or just mischief; I tend to think the former.

I mean, it was a great episode as a spectacle and I loved individual moments but it really feels lacking in substance.  A lot is riding on next week to deliver the goods and explain what this stuff is all about.