arry the orphan
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Posts posted by arry the orphan
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A lot of these question can be answered by reading the Index and Character guide.
for example Casterly Rock and Highgarden are the seats of Houses Lannister and Tyrell, just as Winterfell was seat of House Stark.
I tried to get as much info out of the Index.
1) The North - former House Stark (Winterfell), now disputed between House Bolton (Dreadfort) and House Greyjoy (Pyke)
2) The Iron Islands - House Greyjoy (Pyke)
3) The Riverlands - former House Tully (Riverrun), now House Frey (The Twins, also claims Riverrun)
4) The Vale - House Arryn (The Eyrie)
5) The Westlands - House Lannister (Casterly Rock)
6) Dorne - House Martell (Seat unkown)
7) The Reach - House Tyrell (Highgarden)
Now things get complicated when trying to figure out House Baratheon. I think they got all Targaryen lands after Roberts rebellion (Dragonstone and Kings Landing among them). Dragonstone is the seat of Stannis now. But its obviously just a small island (produces no wheat, barley, beef or pork). The Baratheon lands was probably one of the Seven Kingdoms and then taken over by the Targaryens. Their seat was Kings Landing and the Iron Throne. Robb sent Catelyn down to the Stormlands in order to negotiate with Renly Baratheon (beginning of second season). Tarth is an island and Brienne was sworn to Renly. So as there were three Baratheon brothers I assume Tarth was sworn to the Stormlands (Renly), Renly was sworn to Dragonstone (Stannis) and Stannis was sworn to Kings Landing (Robert). Or Renlys lands and Stannis' lands were equally sworn to Kings Landing, like the other seven kingsdoms listed above..........I don't get that part.
So my guess is:
8) The Stormlands - House Baratheon (Dragonstone and Kings Landing (officially, inofficially House Lannister)), former Targaryen and before that Baratheons again.
We know that seven of those eight lands were kingdoms, and that Aegon Targaryen conquered only six kingdoms (not Dorne).
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I think 9 will probably be Jon Snow trying to hold the Wall. (with Brienne and Pod I hope!!!)
Please!!!!! Brienne and Pod fighting against a giant!!!
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Tywin is going to sew dissent within Dany's camp by spreading the rumor that Jorah is/was a spy for Kings Landing? Devious.
I thought that Tywin is going to send a letter to Jorah (delivered by Varys little birds like in S1). Perhaps Tywin plans to blackmail Jorah with his past as a spy for Robert. Although I am not sure what he expects Jorah to do.
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I agree with whomever said, that the Bank of Bravos is hedging its bet just in case Stannis will win this war. They are probably still supporting Tywin as well. So, stealing gold that was already handed over to Stannis doesn't make much sense. However Davos could hire the pirates to stop Tywin from repaying the Bank. If Tywins gold transports can't reach Bravos, they might reconsider their support for him.
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Supporting Dany? Isn't Bravos a slave city? I would think that by now, slave cites would not want anything to do with Dany.
And Dany doesn't need help from the Iron Bank. They said in the last episode that she could take Kings Landing by her own, but she decided to rule over the slave cities instead.
And Oberyn at the council meeting made me laugh. He was the only one who didn't stand up when Tywin entered the room. He tested Unsullied on the battlefield and in the bedroom and the look on his face when Tywin makes Mace fetch his quill was just priceless. And I agree, Varys was telling Oberyn that if he gets his "desires" under control, he might become a player in the Game of Thrones himself.
And Varys' statement wasn't that bad. He repeated something that was said in a Council meeting, where other witnesses were present as well. And he suggested that Tyrion was sympathetic to the North. Both statements are true. The only openly lying was Shae (and Cersei when answering Oberyn about the "debt".)
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So long game- is Bronn now working for Cersei?
That would explain, why Shae didn't leave KL after all! Bronn said he was followed, but swore that Shae left the city on a boat. Bronn really is just a sellsword and Cersei could have paid him more than Tyrion. Tyrion probably hoped that Bronn would fight for him again in his trial by combat, which is unlikely to happen now.
Bronn as Tyrion's champion vs Jaime representing the Crown (Jaime dies)
I would say the other way around. Bronn will fight for Cersei and Jaime for Tyrion! After all, no one knows Jaimes weaknesses better than Bronn and it would be interesting to see what Tywin does when he realizes that Cersei is planning to kill both his sons.
Littlefinger said he had the necklace made. By whom? On whose orders? And who made the big picture decision to involve and trust Pycelle enough to not only supply the poison but then put the necklace together, give the handoff to Ser Dontos, and have Olenna remove the stone and poison Joffrey? My mind is reeling because now this is a much bigger plot than LF/Olenna. Now we have Shae, Bronn, LF, the Tyrells,
Someone please, very slowly, spell out this murder plot because I'm not getting it.
There is no reason to believe that Shae, Bronn or Pycelle were in any way involved in the murder plot. Tywin ordered Cersei to bring Shae to him before the wedding. So I think Bronn just lied when he told Tyrion that she had left the city. Cersei paid him to betray Tyrion. I suspect that Cersei has spies following everyone around in KL (including Jaime and Bronn). Thats also why she knew that Jaime visited Tyrion in prison.
The murder plot as I understand:
Littlefinger made the necklace with the poison. He promised the fool money in order to get the necklace to Sansa (and perhaps inform Olenna about the whereabouts of the poison). Olenna put the poison in the wine and Littlefinger killed the fool and left his body behind with the evidence that Sansa was involved. Sansas involvment was supposed to implicate Tyrion (which wasn't necessary as he was forced by Joffrey to be his cup bearer). I don't think LF wanted it to be such a clear case against Tyrion anyway, just circumstancial evidence (like Tyrions knife in S1). That sort of suspicions without evidence is probably more useful for his philosophy of "confuse everyone". Pycelle was just the expert witness, who examined Joffreys body and the evidence found in the fools boat.
Yes, and he also perked up when Jorah was mentioned, and the mountain, of course.
The Hound, not the moutain. However I noticed reaction shots from Oberyn everytime dragons (First in the brothel, now in the council) are mentioned. Tywin said that only Dorne was able to withstand the dragons, so I wonder if they have some secret weapons against them.
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Didn't Bolton order his bastard to take an important moat 4 episodes ago? He said his army is trapped, because of the Iron Islanders there. At the same time he ordered Locke to find Bran and Rickon. So Locke managed to join the NW, win Jon Snows trust and travel to to Crasters house, while the bastard is still at home screwing around? They all are really travelling at the speed of plot! And Theons is really just pathetic at this point.
So, we get another trial by combat? Really a stupid move by Tyrion, especially after Jaime made sure he wouldn't be executed. Oh well, I guess sword fights make for good television, but this can't go well for Tyrion and Jaime.
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Maybe Varys and Illyrio were working together in insuring the extinction of the targaryen line....
But if they had them conspiring early on the show I think we are in for a surprise... as was the surprise of the murder of lysa's husband.. I never thought I would hear from that again and now three seasons later it comes back as a game changer. Littlefinger is a real player of the game now, he has been moving strings from season one, and it only makes sense that Varys has been moving these string but maybe not focusing in the Stark family but in the Targaryens.
I agree that we haven't seen the last of the Varys-Illyrio connection. Varys hates magic and wizards. The Targaryens have a magic connection to their dragons and that could have been a good motive for him. Although I don't think that giving them powerful allies (Dothraki) in order to find a reason to kill them makes sense. I think that Varys is part of some conspiracy in the Eastern cities. We already know about at least one "conspiracy" like that. They are trying to convert the Seven Kingdoms to their religion of the Lord of Light. Thoros failed to convert Robert, but Melisandre succeeded with Stannis. Varys is anti-magic. He was mutilated in a ritual that sounded quite religious. So perhaps Varys is part of a conspiracy to counter that attempt to convert Westeros? That would explain, why he thinks he is serving the realm! And why he was so eager to help Tyrion to defeat Stannis. He realized that the realm is going to be taken over by the Eastern Religion. The Targaryens come from Old Valyria and Melisandre talked to Thoros in Valyrian as well. So there could be a Targaryen connection to the religion as well. The Dothraki were very anti-magic as well, based on how they treated the witch. So Varys and Illyrio could have thought that they were a good fit to counter the Red Religion.
And then there is still Pycelle. In S1 it looked like he is a player as well. He is just pretending to be an old and weak man. I'm wondering when we learn more about him.
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Yeah, Tyrion could have learned a thing or two from Lancel on how to be a good cup bearer for the king.
By the way.. that stuff about the Iron bank keeping gold in floating barges is stupid too. Real banks don't keep very much in liquid cash at all, let alone in a place where it can be easily pilfered and/or drowned.
I am not sure about that. Firstly, I think Davos just said that it doesn't make a difference whether you are a smuggler or a pirate: Don't sail to close to a ship from the Iron Bank that transports gold!!! And I think in that setting physical gold (cash!) is quite important! There is no paper money in that world. So I guess there are a lot of ships with gold on board sailing between Bravos and Westeros. Davos's pirate friends might attack one of them.
With Dany disrupting the slave trade all over the place, there's a big demand for new slaves. Stannis will offer to sell the population of King's Landing into slavery in return for their help to seize the Iron throne. That's probably a good enough offer for the Iron bank to jump at. And also, it will finally give Dany a reason to go to Westeros.
Well, Stannis needs the population of Kings Landing or else he would rule over an empty city, but I agree that the Iron Bank needs something big from him in order to consider funding his war. So policy change on slavery might be one of their conditions. But then again Westeros is very anti-slavery (Ned wanted to execute Jorah for selling to slavers and Talisa came to Westeros, because she never wanted to live in a city with slaves again). And introducing slavery in Dany's homeland, seems more than just poking a sleeping (or distracted) dragon. "He the crazy lady with the dragons hates slavery. Lets enslave her hometown!).
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Actually, that raises a new question about what Tywin's plans for the North going forward are now.
I replied in the Speculation thread.
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From the episode thread
Actually, that raises a new question about what Tywin's plans for the North going forward are now. Bolton was named Warden temporarily, with the understand that the Lannisters would get it once Tywin had raised somebody he trusted to take up the job (nobody ever raised the issue that there was like a 50/50 shot that any child Tyrion and Sansa had would also be a dwarf, though I suppose they could have just kept producing them until one who wasn't was delivered), but that would seem to be out the window at this point.
I think that Tywin would not have minded if Tyrions and Sansas son had been a "dwarf". It just would have added an extra level of humilation to the Starks and the Northerners. A little person is not fit to rule Casterly Rock and the West, but for the North and Winterfell its good enough.
For now I think Tywin has no plans for the North at all. The Greyjoys and Boltons are still fighting. The Wildlings are invading and Winter is coming (even slooowwer than Mance Rayder). Tywin can just wait and watch. Whoever survives in the North will be no threat to the South (except perhaps the WW).
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Dany mentioned in the pilot that she and her brother had been Illyrios guests for more than a year. Viserys was quite an idiot, but even he would not have been stupid enough to believe that the Iron Bank would give him gold to hire mercenaries and invade the Seven Kingdoms. In Ned's first council meeting LF mentionend that the crown is six million in debt (three million to Tywin Lannister). So lets assume Robert already owed the Iron Bank three million gold. It was reasonable to believe that he could repay them and therefore the Bank would not gain anything by supporting his enemies.
Tyrion mentioned in S3 that they owe the Iron Bank TENS of millions. Tywin said last episode that it was "a tremendous amount". But war costs a lot of money and the war is over and the Lannisters have won. Why would the Iron Bank believe that their chance to get the gold back would be higher when they help prolonging the war by supporting Stannis? Unless Stannis promises them something ridiculous like Casterly Rock and all the gold mines in Westeros in return, he won't get anything from them.
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Who the hell is Sir Hugh??
I also have to check the Character index quite often before posting. :) Ser Hugh was Jon Arryns squire. In the first season Littlefinger pointed out that Ser Hugh was close to Jon Arryn and could have been the one to poison him. Ned sent his captain of the guard to talk to him before the tournament, but he refused because Ned's captain wasn't a knight like him. Next scene - Ser Hugh jousts against the Mountain and gets killed. Ned wonders how Ser Hugh got the gold for his armor (he was knighted not long before and squires don't get paid, so did the Lannister pay him?) and if his death was really an accident (Mountain is a Lannister man)?
What he got out of having Lysa poison Arryn, ChocButterfly, seems to be three-fold: (1) Created a job opening for a new Hand, a job he knew Robert would offer to his old friend, so that (2) Ned would come to King's Landing and Littlefinger could set him hunting after the big secret, so that (3) after doing what honor dictated, Ned would be killed or banished and the Crown de-stabilized.
Thats a really good analysis! But there is one more thing that might have happened before the first episode: Jon Arryn found out about the three Lannister incest kids. He told Cersei and Jaime that he would not tell Robert their secret in order to prevent a war (therefore they talk in ep1 wheter or not he told anyone before his death). LF (via Lysa Arryn) learned about this and decided to kill Jon Arryn to set up what you describes.
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It actually all makes sense if Varys approached Ilyrio -- as a scam -- after "a little bird" told him that Illyrio was trying to promote Viserys as a viable King for the Iron Throne.
Possible. But LF threatend Varys over his meeting with Ilyrio. He basically said, that if he revealed this acquaintance then Varys might be in serious trouble. And Varys looked "momentarily" scared. It's possible that Varys was just shocked that LF knew so much about his business.
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Last ep. Rast said, that if he were Hodors size, he would be King of World. This ep. Bran wargs Hodor to kill his enemy. If this becomes a regular thing and Bran takes control of Hodors mind as he pleases then Hodor is really not much more like an animal to Bran.
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It really doesn't make much sense:
Varys's friend brokered the alliance between Khal Drogo and Viserys.
Then, Jorah (Vary's spy) told Robert about the arranged marriage between Drogo and Dany.
Then, Varys (on Roberts order) set up the wine merchant to kill Dany. (and Jorah stopped it)
That would have finally lead to the Dothraki invasion, if the witch hadn't stopped it.
Dany said in the pilot that they have lived over a year in the villa of Varys' friend. Varys and his friend must have known that Viserys wouldn't be able to lead a Dothraki army. They also must have known that the Dothraki have no ships. So what was their plan? If that really was all part of a plan, then that storyline is even more convoluted then everything LF has done.
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So what are the odds that Oberyn has eight daughters (but no sons??). I hope there isn't a Craster thing going on here, and he just didn't mention his sons.
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It was Littlefinger who told Ned about Ser Hugh. He also said Ned should not talk to him directly, but send someone he trusts. Perhaps LF knew that Ser Hugh would refuse to talk to anyone who isn't a knight or a lord.
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Varys:
His "little birds" tell him everything
Tyrion?
Cersei/Lannisters?
Jorah????
Wizard in a box???????
Crap! Varys is getting his butt kicked!
In Season 1 it looked like Varys was the big puppet master orchestrating the Dothraki invasion and bringing war to the Seven Kingdoms. LF outplayed him completely (in the start-a-war-for-personal-profit-game), but Varys still has his friends overseas. We don't really know who those friends are, except the one who arranged the marriage between Dany and Khal Drogo and gave her the dragon eggs. I also think that the masked woman in Qarth, who warned Jorah might be one of them. They also are helping Shae.
I found Tywins description of the Iron Bank very interesting! It sounded like you never know who could be an agent of the Bank. Could Varys friends have a connection to them?
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So..whats LF and Lyssa's plan? To wed Sansa to her little cousin Robin! Sansa is still Westeros' most wanted. The Eyrie seems truly unassailable, but that does not win them the North. Do they hope that the Northerners rise up against Bolton and support Sansa? Are the "Knights of the Vale" going to attack the North? And what happened to the storyline with the Hill tribes rebellion against the Vale? Does it matter that Sansa is married to the "Halfman"?
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Best scene for me was Pod cocking rabbit.
That's either a term I have never heard before or the best typo ever.TYPO!!!!!!! Although its Game of Thrones...so you never know what they will think of next.
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The Lannisters are broke!! I love it!
It really comes all back to the money! Littlefinger started the war by telling Lysa to poison Jon Arryn and send the letter to blame the Lannisters! LF was Master of Coin! Did he realize that he won't be able to borrow from the Lannisters any longer? That he won't be able to pay back the Iron Bank? Did LF all this to cover his ass?
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Bran didn't give Hodor power. Bran took possession of Hodors body! Bran was the one who killed Locke (with Hodors body)!
And apparently in Lysa's mind she was "married" to LF all the time (We had our wedding night a long time ago!)
So, I guess when Jon Arryn was Hand of the King, LF had Lysa whispering his ideas in Jon Arryns ear. Did LF realize that the crown is going bankrupt and started the war because of that?
Best scene for me was Pod cooking rabbit. That was a joke I've never seen before!
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I just checked the Character guide. The Tarlys (Tarlies?) are sworn to the Tyrells. So I assume Mace Tyrell was a loyalist (Olenna said in the last episode that she was supposed to marry a Targaryen, but decided to marry a Tyrell instead). I think this also explains why the Tyrells played no role in the first season. They fought against Robert (and were probably not welcome at his court).
So, Roberts side were the Baratheons, Starks and Tullys and the loyalists were Targaryen, Martells, and Tyrells. Tywin Lannister was Hand of the King and started as loyalist, but betrayed the Mad King and sacked KL. He got his daughter married to the new king for that. Do we know on which side the Greyjoys fought, or were they raiding and pillaging both sides?
War Stories
in The Unsullied Habitat
· Edited by arry the orphan
Thats what I assume. The Baratheon kingdom was conquered by the Targaryens. And with the help of the dragons Aegon subdued the other kingdoms as well. He allowed them to continue to rule their lands as long as they swear fealty to him (and no longer call themselves kings). The Baratheons were serving the Targaryens like the Boltons were serving the Starks and the Freys were serving the Tullys. So when Rhaegar took Roberts girl (Neds sister) he rebelled against the Targaryens and became the new king.