adora721
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Posts posted by adora721
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On 12/17/2021 at 1:28 PM, Starry said:
I think the point is that heroes can't carry out executions or just let someone die.
I agree, but letting Eobard fade from existence is the same thing they let Nora 1.0 do; fading from existence isn't the same thing as letting someone die. It is also morally reprehensible that Eobard and other villains get away with their crimes all. the. time. What a horrible message this show puts out into the world. At this point, team Flash is an accessory to whatever crimes they are allowing to go unpunished on their watch. This show no longer cares about justice.
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37 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:
Speaking of the pipeline- and I know this goes back a couple episodes now- but am I the only one wondering what Team Flash did with all those metas they had locked up when that (federal?) agency came and put STAR Labs under lockdown after Thawne nearly caused a reactor leak there?
(Probably moot now that it's all been Reverse-Reverse-Flash Pointed).
They were transferred in season 1x22 because Thawne triggered the reactor to go off again, which endangered the metas. Barry got Snart's help to move them to safety, but Snart betrayed Barry, of course.
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On 12/14/2021 at 6:15 PM, Primal Slayer said:
It was nice that the writers probably have given Caitlin the most honest scene the character has gotten in ages with Thawne. It felt like their knock off version of Black Widow/Loki in Avengers.
Who was Loki, cause Cait's got blood on her ledger and has been Loki in her own sociopathic way. That Cait would tell Thawne she's wasted 8 years hating him is such a self own. Like, Thwane is a narcissist, and a sociopath; he's glad to be a source of pain for Cait. Why didn't Cait brag about her accomplishments as part of team Flash. Oh right! There are no accomplishments; even the meta cure was Cisco's idea.
Joe West has lost all credibility as an officer of the law, a father, and a human being. He knows that police have to use deadly force when justified and are still considered heroes when they do. Again, emphasis on it's justified deadly force. I didn't hear Joe protesting when Iris shot Savitar to save Barry. I didn't hear him protest when Nora 2.0 allowed herself to fade out of existence in season 5. In season 2, Joe gave Iris a gun to protect herself when he found out Harrison Wells existed from Earth 2. When you give someone a gun, you expect they might use it to seriously injure or even kill someone. Joe also shot Harrison Well in season 2.
Once Joe started supporting jailing evil metas in the pipeline and then harbored Cait and Killer Frost from justice, he became morally murky and is now fully morally bankrupt. When Thawne returns to murder and destroy again, it'll be on Joe's head.
ETA: Wasn't season 5 about not forcing Cicada to lose his powers by taking the meta cure without his consent? How many innocent meta humans died while these so-called "heroes" tried to convince a serial killer to do the right thing? I guess it's OK to take Thawne's powers without his consent though to save Thawne's life. So the lives of those innocent meta humans didn't matter like Thawne's life. Makes no sense.
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I was hoping for a Cisco mention of some kind. Guess he's been forgotten...
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On 12/3/2021 at 12:09 AM, thuganomics85 said:
I know Barry, Team Flash, and the show are massive sticklers about the whole "We can't kill!" thing, but they really would be doing themselves and the entire world a favor by breaking that oath when it comes to this guy.
Technically, there's no oath because Killer Frost helped to murder HR Wells, which makes her a murderer in the eyes of the law, and she's still free after being harbored from justice for three years before her so-called 2-week stint in Iron Heights. It's also ironic that the only timeline in which Eobard was imprisoned is the one in which Barry had been lost in Crisis in season 5. Therefore, it seems Barry is the only idiot who keeps letting criminals like KF and Thawne get away with crimes.
There's something doubly disturbing about that. One, Barry is a police officer who has sworn to uphold the law and yet he keeps letting criminals go for no good reason. Second, he's also a hero sworn to execute justice, but it's unjust to let criminals off the hook because they are a "friend" or because they are your nemesis. Any crimes that Eobard commits are essentially partially Barry's fault because he had the chance to imprison him, no need to kill, but Barry refuses to do that. None of this is heroic or in keeping with the law. At this point, Barry Allen is an accessory to some of these crimes, too.
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On 7/16/2021 at 1:43 PM, Starry said:
This is actually something that should have been discussed back in season 4 when they mentioned having kids right before their wedding.
Agreed. Or they could have talked about around the lead up to Crisis because Iris wasn't pregnant and they both believed Barry would die. How come Iris didn't mention like creating an embryo or freezing her eggs and his sperm before Crisis? This would be especially important after losing Nora at the end of season 5.
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Killer Frost's crush on Chillblaine makes perfect sense. She's a narcissist; he's a narcissist. She tried to murder people unapologectically; he murdered someone unapologetically. Cait liked Hunter Zolomon and Hunter said he saw something dark in Cait - i.e., Killer Frost. Birds of a feather, KF and Chillblaine, if you ask me.
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11 hours ago, Starry said:
Caitlin isn't close to Kamilla which is strange considering that she's dating her oldest friend but aside from that, I don't see what's sad about her situation. At this point both Allegra and Cecile have more warm moments with her than they do with Iris.
Caitlin never made the effort to get close to any of Cisco's girlfriends. I guess that made it easier to feel no shame when Cait nearly got Cynthia murdered by the Thinker. Plus Cait would have to admit that other people matter as much as she does. She/KF are narcissists; so, that won't happen.
Notice that Caitlin and Killer Frost only made an effort with people who actively coddle them: Ralph, Allegra, Joe, Cisco, and Cecile. If you're not an active coddler, Cait/KF don't know you and don't care to try. Recall Killer Frost asking Iris how Ralph was dealing with Barry's impending death in Crisis, but KF never once asked Iris, Barry's wife, how Iris was dealing with it. Notice, too, that Cait/KF somehow made their attempts to help murder Iris into Cait/KF being victims. It's no wonder KF's trial became less about responsibility and more about playing the martyr.
Considering that Killer Frost dragged/insulted Kamilla's photography work in public doesn't help endear Cait or KF to Kamilla either. Kam is probably glad those two "sisters" aren't at her party stealing focus.
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4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:
Barry and Iris are de facto foster siblings (or maybe actual foster siblings if Joe officially adopted him)
Other than the simple fact that Barry and Iris share zero DNA, here are a few ways for you to know this isn't true:
- Iris has never called Joe "our dad", never. She always says, "my dad" or just "dad." Saying they were "kinda like brother and sister" is not proof of anything other than how Iris perceived their situation might look. Immediately after she said those words, she added, "because we're not brother and sister". Some people hang on to the "kinda" part and ignore the "we're not brother and sister" part for their own reasons.
- Joe and Barry are police officers who know the law. If Joe had legally adopted Barry, Iris and Barry could not legally marry because, in the eyes of the state, they would legally be siblings. Since Barry and Iris are married, that tells you they are not siblings by law.
- Cecile was a District Attorney; if she Barry and Iris were legally siblings, she could not support their marriage legally. They would have to undo the adoption. Since this didn't happen, there was nothing to undo.
- Barry always refers to Henry as his dad or father. This has been consistent since season 1.
- Barry has never called Joe "dad". He said to Iris, "I'm hoping your dad will let me off early to go see the Particle Accelerator" in the pilot episode. When referring to Joe, Barry either calls him, "Joe" or says "your dad" when speaking to Iris.
I don't blame some people for the confusion because the writers have not made it abundantly clear what the legal term is for the Barry/Joe situation. In some dialogue, Barrys says "foster", then that Joe "is like a dad", and Joe calls Barry "son". The writers are terrible about this, but one thing is clear: Barry West isn't a thing. He's Barry Allen and has been romantically in love with Iris West since childhood before his living situation changed when his mother was murdered. Henry Allen was also very clear with Joe in an early prison visit scene that Barry was Henry's son.
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11 hours ago, Trini said:
Chillblaine an actual murderer. There's nowhere for this "romance" to go.
And Killer Frost is a human trafficking accesory to murder who got out of a life sentence after a few days in prison on probation for one act of good behavior after pleading guilty to 3 felonies. There's no moral compass these wrtiers won't bend or break to make them "acceptable" as a real couple in love. I've lost any faith that there's even a compass. Tomorrow, they'll both be celebrated as the next great love story we all should aspire to want. 😖
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EW interview with Tom Cavanaugh.
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On 5/11/2021 at 6:37 PM, cambridgeguy said:
Looks like Cisco might be making a mid season exit. They still haven't explained why he wants to head off - what exactly does he want to do but can't thanks to being stuck in Star Labs?
I thought Cisco was supposed to tell Kamilla what his greatest fear was in the Psych vision. Was that not for this episode?
On 5/11/2021 at 8:06 PM, Lantern7 said:Cisco/Kamilla: (at the same time) I wanna go to San Francisco with you!
That's the thing though, Cisco didn't say "I want to go to San Francisco with you." He said, "I have to leave Central City." When Cisco first learns about San Francisco, he's happy for Kamilla, but I didn't get the sense that it was a permanent move she was asking him for, or, if it was, I didn't get the sense that Cisco was interested.
It's only later after the Deon incident in Star Labs that Cisco said he has to leave Central City. That makes me think that him leaving is about trying to prevent his greatest fear from coming true. I think Kamilla's opportunity in San Fran is just Cisco's excuse to leave; it's not really about Kamilla.
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Well, considering the spoiler pics online of KF
Spoilerbeing out of prison and in the mix with Nora 2.0, Barry, and Impulse
the accountability for Killer Frost was never serious; it was just performative accountability that shares nothing in common with the real experiences of real victims of bad policing.
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I'm not sure if this was a different DP interview, but the screen shot of her response makes her sound like someone who is leaving the show:
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2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:
That precedent already exists.
Well, I'm thinking since this was a BLM and accountability episode, the writers want to avoid that particular precedent.
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6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:
The judge has the discretion to reject any plea or anything the prosecution states it wants.
The judge had to be careful of setting a precedent that would be used in future cases against meta humans. If the judge sentenced KF to take the cure, this brings up all sorts of ethical issues about gov't control of human bodies and medical castration or medical experimentation against sentient beings. Nevermind that Cait put a sentient meta in a medically-induced coma without his consent in season 5; Cait's hypocrisy is epic.
Setting KF free despite such serious crimes, attempted murder and kidnapping, would set a precedent by which future criminals might claim that their good deeds negated punishment for past crimes. That's not a good precedent either for meta or normal human criminals. And prison isn't just for rehabilitation; it's punishment for crime. It's not supposed to feel good.
KF just played herself by stating she'd rather spend life without parole in prison, where the meta dampening technology would negate her powers anyway. KF is an idiot!
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11 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:
They used a real life issue (racism/homophobia) and applied it here to a straight, white woman. So much tone deafness.
These writers think that centering the issue on a white woman will somehow cause the audience to have a light bulb moment of empathy for at-risk groups because of Killer Frost. The irony is that the audience already empathizes with Cait and Killer Frost because they are from the majority culture. So, I think they missed the mark by several miles here.
And it wasn't like Cait or KF was treated the way discriminated groups are treated - no kneeling on her neck, no trampling her rights, she lived to have her day in court instead of being shot dead on sight, did anyone even ruffle a hair on her head during the arrest? I don't think so. And she's guilty. Innocent members of at-risk groups don't get anything near the kind treatment, deference, or ability to request their own prison sentence like KF did.
I think of Kalief Browder, who was held at Rikers Island jail without trial for allegedly stealing a backpack and was in solitary confinement for two years. There he was subject to prison violence. After the charges were dropped and he was freed, he ended his life. Now, that's a martyr, not Killer Frost.
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5 hours ago, Starry said:
So 7x12 is Cisco's last episode? I am not surprised that Carlos didn't renew his contract but I got played this time. DP keeps talking about people leaving and she's not one of them? 😂
I still hold out hope that Cait and DP will exit after season 7. She's probably not leaving until the finale; they wouldn't announce it now. I still believe Cisco's greatest fear and his words, "It can't end like this" are about Cait.
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1 hour ago, shantown said:
I'm not surprised it's happening, but I am surprised they're announcing it now.
Several people here and elsewhere online have asked why the announcement is coming now. Some say it's because of the upcoming episodes, but now I wonder if it's because DP basically mentioned OG characters leaving in her recent interview, the Spanish one. She gave away a lot of information in both of her recent interviews; I mean, more than would be expected if you want people to watch and be surprised.
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19 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:
Caitlin’s behavior regarding Frost was really cringe.
4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:She was so over the top with her bag eyed freak outs when she was going on about "I have to save my sister! My sister!" that I was embarrassed just watching her.
15 hours ago, sweetandsour said:Caitlin's gonna start sleeping with Frost's macaroni wall art under her pillow.
Caitlin's behavior seems less like familial love and more like neurotic co-dependency and obsession. As the most coddled and narcissistic character on the show, Cait must have loved having her own, personal enabler, sycophant, and flying monkey in Killer Frost 24/7.
With coddler Ralph gone, coddler Cisco soon to depart, and the loss of KF, Cait won't have anyone left to tell her, "You is smart, you is kind, you is important." A narcissist needs to feed on the faux "worship". I expect this really isn't the last of KF though since she'll be joining Chillblaine in Iron Heights. I wonder if Chillblaine was a reason KF wanted to end up in prison cause she's got a crush. Ugh!
4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:we get a big speech from Frost about how removing her powers is removing a part of her and she would rather be in prison forever then lose her powers
Speaking of Iron Heights: The latest retcon of KF having dark matter and being affected by meta-dampening technology means KF will be placed in the meta wing of Iron Heights. There, KF will not be able to use her powers for the rest of her life; so, what was the point of not taking the cure since the end result is not being able to use her powers? It's not like Iron Heights turns off the dampening technology once a day so metas can use their powers.
The laziness and awfulness of the writing astounds. I hope Eric Wallace doesn't renew the contracts of the legacy writers, keeps the newest writer, and brings in better writers for season 8. This has got to be the worst writing for a character I've ever watched.
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I'm starting to think that the insanity of using a guilty, coddled KF in a story about police corruption is more
Spoilerabout a final send off for DP because she's leaving the show at the end of the season
than about BLM and police brutality. It doesn't make sense to use a guilty, white criminal, who's been harbored from justice for 3 years by two officers of the law and the team, as a representative of groups at risk for police brutalty and corruption in the USA. Either the writers and Eric Wallace are crazy, high, or that stupid or they are using the so-called "accountability" of KF as a final plot for this very problematic character.
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There's a new DP interview in Spanish that someone translated to English on Twitter; I'm not sure of the translation and it's just a screen shot:
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58 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:
The entirety of Killer Frost's character has been a cluster**** of retcons on top of retcons on top of retcons from day 1.
And did you notice the retcon this season of Killer Frost having dark matter in her? This is a retcon from season 5 that highly and frequently emphasized that KF was a DNA meta, not a dark matter meta, which was why KF was immune to Cicada's dagger. I mean, they made an entire plot hinge on the fact that KF was the key to defeating Cicada because she had zero dark matter in her. Now, oops! KF has dark matter in season 7. I suspect that this latest retcon is necessary so that the judge will give her an "unjust sentence" by
Spoilerusing the meta human cure that targets dark matter on Killer Frost to remove her powers🙄😡!
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3 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:
The funny thing is, considering Frost didn't exist until 4 years ago yeah, she pretty much is 4 years old. Not that you'd be able to tell.
On 4/13/2021 at 8:41 PM, BeautifulFlower said:You're forgetting the retcon of season 4 in which they showed that Killer Frost has been in Caitlin since Cait was a child. KF even remembers Cait marrying Ronnie. Therefore, KF is just as old as Caitlin. Even if KF was only four years old, she's proven to be a very dangerous four year old - reckless, pathologically selfish, and lacking in empathy. Even after taking responsibility, she's now petitioning to be let off the hook based on the promo.
I mentioned on Twitter that if we go by the reasoning that good deeds are enough to justify not sending a guilty criminal to prison, then Barry should let Thawne off the hook for murdering his mom. As faux Harrison Wells, Thawne did a lot of good deeds for 15 years. He provided good jobs at STAR Labs for over a decade before the PA accident. He created new technology and patents that improved lives; those made him rich and made Barry rich when Thwane left it to him. Even after the PA accident, Thawne trained Barry to use his powers, helped Barry catch dangerous metas and saved numerous lives, made the Firestorm matrix device to save Ronnie and Dr. Stein's lives, and provided tech to the CCPD to deal with meta criminals. Even after Thawne was found out, Barry, and later Barry and Nora, went back in time to get help from Thawne. That's a lot more good than Killer Frost had done. So, if Barry (and team Flash) want to let Killer Frost off the hook for 1.5 years of good deeds, then Barry should let Thawne go free the next time they meet.
Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion
in The Flash
I laughed when I read that part of the interview. Like, Eric Wallace clearly doesn't watch his own show or he suffers from cognitive deficits. Cait wished Ronnie dead in season 1 after she found him living as Firestorm. In s2, Zoom told Cait he sensed darkness in her. In s3 x7, Cait committed many crimes trying to get rid of KF. In s4, Cait chose to work in human trafficking to control KF instead of going to her genius Mechanical Engineer BFF, Cisco. Also in s4, Cait endangered Cynthia's life & almost get Cynthia murdered, and Cait felt zero guilt about it. In s5, Cait claimed to care about consent for a medical procedure, the meta cure, but then put Grodd, a sentient being in a medically-induced coma without Grodd's consent. Yet she (and Cisco) were angry with Barry about curing King Shark. In s7, Cait tampered with police property (obstruction of justice) and lied to the police to nullify the meta cure. Like, what show has Eric been watching???? He's nuts.