Nash
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Posts posted by Nash
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On 31/05/2018 at 6:23 AM, NitneLiun said:
What makes you think Arkady can even protect himself? This episode was set in December of 1987. The failed coup against Gorbachev was in 1991, IIRC. That's a long time to the many enemies they now have in the KGB. Seems like there is a good chance Arkady, Philip and Elizabeth ended up in Lubyanka Prison with bullets in the backs of their heads.
The 91 coup was born out of desperation by hardliners and at the critical point none of the KGB SF officers would accept the order to go in hard. I think Arkady said that it was senior figures at the KGB that were plotting. With this threat out of the way in 87, I’d say the threat to the Jenningses and Arkady is diminished somewhat. As for Oleg, with the continued summits and glasnost and his clear role (unrelated to the murder spree of our two comrades from Dept S), he might not do much, if any time at all.
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On 31/05/2018 at 5:24 AM, SusanSunflower said:
yes, I think Paige will likely evade prosecution. P&E have been operating in the DC area for almost 20 years with only "one thumb print" from Phillip at Clark's faux apartment (iirc) ....
Most espionage (and terrorism) prosecutions end in plea bargains and/or trades ... deeds may be confessed to in exchange for carrots (not sticks). Hopefully Paige will sober up before Claudia's apartment/safe house is identified (although there's likely no useful evidence there) and she will either return to her apartment or (better) show up at Stan's. "We" know P&E's kill list ... they (the FBI have no reason to link Elizabeth (much less Paige) with the General's "suicide" ... with P&E out of reach, with Stan in her corner, and maybe an "nervous breakdown" Paige's "issues" will be many but likely not legal jeopardy.
The fact that Henry knows nothing .... about P&E or Paige is critical here.
The apartment looked pretty clean to me - Claudia was old school and that place will have been sanitised. 2018 tech would do the job but in 1987?
Then again, that vodka bottle......
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What Americans did well in the real world context was make viewers - I hope - think. The plots were sexed up but the series made it plain that if you follow good tradecraft and keep to your cover, the state will have trouble tracking you. Also that once a mission is launched, any number of factors can derail it or equally stop it from being halted.
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Well, 5 episodes down and I simply don’t see the Feds breaking the network unless there is a huge plot swing in their favour. My bet is that P&E fake their deaths and head back home to an interesting welcome, a few moments before the FBI do have a breakthrough, leaving Paige and Henry in the clear to become a sleeper agent and an FBI agent respectively.
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Back in the day I suspected Jon was dead and going to be brought back and what decided it for me was that Kit H didn't lose the hair.
i don't know what would be a similar thing for the last series but - if as you say Huisman is off filming elsewhere and doesn't go near a GOT shoot then that's that isn't it? Equally a credible pic of, say Jaime in furs looking a bit battered round the edges then - what can be concluded from that.
As re the Golden Company, handwavium could get them to Kings Landing and through two changes in leadership in one episode flat.
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I don't suppose you have to actually film it - you just have an "accidental brief breach of set security" while the actors pretend to film a scene in which something happens which doesn't.....happen .
Then a slightly wonky picture appears on the internet which "shows Jon killing Tyrion"....
Though IIRC the pics of Jon fighting in stark armour were spot on.
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That's the beauty of misinformation - even if some is total nonsense it doesn't mean it all is.
I wonder how much HBO pays someone to come up with fake leaks and extra scenes that won't appear? Yes
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It's not totally insane stuff-
- D has to meet the Northern lords and the stark girls
- Jaime has to reach winterfel and join up
it could be an early leak by HBO; as to why there's no Tyrion for example, perhaps he's around but not actually taking a lead in much
I'd imagine Tim Mcinnery will be eating the scenery with TWO Lannisters in the Great Hall to snarl at :-)
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1 hour ago, OhOkayWhat said:
Enlightening? Maybe. Sometimes they are open to interpretation too.
Yes, given that HBO want to keep the entire thing under wraps for a long as possible, I'm not sure I'd believe much. It's an indicator, yes but that's all.
I started with the books but the glacial pace of GRRMs writing has meant that HBO is canon in my mind. The books? If they arrive I might read them but I can't say I feel a great need to.
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Ha! That would be entertaining; a bit more Terry Pratchett than GRRM? I must admit that I'm suspecting that GRRM wants D to introduce some kind of proto-democracy. That is, I think quite mad as it would jump from high feudalism/absolutism right into, well the 1770s; the thing is that either she tinkers with Govt to heal the land (Aragorns tax policy) or the land is healed because she is the rightful queen an' all. I'm not sure if there is a middle line.
and yes, it'd be a hoot if the residents of fleabottom said "nah, keep yer crown, we'll settle for another couple of pence and less goldcloaks. We like a nice execution though - good for pie sales."
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It's plausible - the Middle Ages saw a fair bit of radical thinking but without widescale literacy it sort of got stuck at the peasant revolt stage.
For me it's important it's not Robin Hood Prince of Thieves "freedom" idiocy or a sudden planting of the liberty tree.
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I think that "democracy in Westeros" would be a laughable ending. When Varys made his "for the people" speech, I think he was pretty much told to watch it. D is the rightful queen, she wants to make things better for her subjects but she is going to RULE. And it's dragonfire if you disagree.
A lot will depend on how much of a kingdom is left after war with the NK, with Cersei and with any vested interests that object to the wheel being broken. There may be no wheel left to break.
The major players left, who count as nominally good, have for the most part suffered loss (if Jaime survives he'll have lost his hand, his children and his sister), trauma, pain etc - so we could see some kind of a ruling faction headed by D all of whom are committed to Getting It Right This Time.
The people will follow whoever saves them.
It won't be what we see as democracy; further, it won't last. It will be seen as a golden age in another, future age of fear and war.
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The TV series apparently ends up in the same place as the books. I say apparently because that's what we've been told and it might just be maskirova by HBO to allow GRRM to finish it all his own way. Sometime.
So take it at face value we are playing guessing games as to what GRRM thinks is a good ending. I don't have a clue. I'd settle for D&J ruling jointly with a vaguely happier outlook for Westeros in the short to medium term.
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I think there'll be a lot of very annoyed viewers if the whole thing ends on a note of " your majesty, I'd like a word about the tax policy"....
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I'd end it with a coda some 50 years hence and two nobles are saying, "the old queen was a just ruler, her grandson is a maniac and we can't let him rule." "Well, you know what they say he did to his Grandfather..."
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It need not end with the happy lovers married and ruling - in fact I'd bet against it but......look at it this way:
1 J is the rightful heir but hates ruling
2 D is the next in line and has a vision thing about breaking the blah blah blah
3 if J has publicly acknowledged her as Queen before he knows his lineage, as an honourable bloke, he may say that surrendered his claim and he sees her as the Queen. All a bit Victoria and Albert - weren't they related?
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37 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:
The Faceless Men don't do life swapping though. They take the faces of the dead, but that doesn't mean they create new life. Mirri is the one that said that only death can pay for life (and then she proceeded to kill Dany's baby, so that Drogo could "live"). I think what makes people think that Shireen's death may be the price for Jon's life are thinking of that line by Mirri and of the fact that Mel also uses a sort of blood magic, always asking for King's blood for her rituals.
It's pretty persuasive evidence - circumstantial but persuasive. I've not dismissed it; I suspect they may gloss over it with Magic Plot Paint.
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49 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:
there are many things in this show that don't make sense.
To be written in words of burning gold on the side of the highest mountain in Westeros.
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55 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:
Tywin WAS (mostly) lawful neutral back when he was Hand of the King under Aerys. He was brutal and ruthless but ultimately he was enforcing the rules, he just liked to choose the most violent penalty. An interesting what if scenario is how things would have played out if Joanna didn't die when she gave birth to Tyrion. It's likely Tywin would still dislike him for being a dwarf but I doubt he would have such a blinding hatred for the guy.
Sounds like a shift in alignment to me - though you could argue that a preference towards cruel punishments suggests evil rather than good or true neutral.
In that sense Ned Stark isn't exactly LG, he's more LN applying the law with a swift death for the guilty and not laying the guilt of that execution onto a lackey. Perhaps that's good for Westeros; what's his record like on hungry peasants caught poaching?
perhaps the D&D alignment model doesn't work in Westeros?
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Even if you try to argue the defence that he didn't give direct orders or kill people himself, as Lord of House Lannister the buck stops with him.
Lawful evil? And I suggest D&D refresh their reading of D&D alignments
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so, Tywyn is implicated in plotting the Red Wedding and remains LN?
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3 hours ago, WindyNights said:
I think that's contrary to the spirit of the books. It'd be like writing a pure revenge fantasy in Middle Earth. Major plot changes don't bother me as much as when adaptations decide they're not going to adhere to the ideas and spirit of the book series they're adapting. That's why I give the show crap for being nihilistic.
Like when D & D say they think Tywin is Lawful Neutral then you have know to that they're just operating on a different wavelength to GRRM and his book series.
Concerning the Freys, I think they've been mishandled in the show. In the books, they have a large presence everywhere and there are plenty of good Freys that had no input in the Red Wedding or were loyal to the Starks. As a family, they're not evil. They're just a mixed bag. Plenty of bad ones, plenty of good ones and plenty in-between.
In the show, you only know about Old Walder Frey and the rest of the Freys are nameless characters that are all interchangeable with one another.
Lawful Neutral? Hoots of derisive laughter, Bruce.
Ive given up on the books and I'm happier for it. For me the series is the story now; I think it's taken us so far in the mire in terms of torture and rape that I'm quite happy to see the Freys get it.
GRRM seemed intent on taking epic fantasy down some dark paths; this is where it ends up if you bin the moral compass
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2 hours ago, SimoneS said:
I think that Conan is one of those dated franchises that is difficult to reboot. Huisman is a good actor, but I cannot see him as Conan, maybe because he lacks the bulging muscles.
The gym is a wonderful thing; I was having a chat about this just now - the comment was that Conan lacks the multiple POV that GOT has and if you can't relate to Conan, that's it.
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Indeed, I saw the film; it wasn't bad but I wasn't convinced.
I was idly thinking; I'd not give up on Conan as a subject but the legacy of Arnie is a huge issue for a reboot.
The Americans Retrospective
in The Americans [V]
So. I too have mixed feelings about the ending but am putting it down to that sense of loss when something you’ve enjoyed ends. I’ll reserve a more detailed judgement until I’ve thought through it.
Meanwhile.
The FBI don’t actually hold any of the illegals but they have improved their knowledge of how the illegals operate - their objective is to catch more. So, they spin the P&E flight as a failing business man running from creditors with his wife. That’s why they clean out the house - while the suits are carrying out the boxes, the techies are taking the place apart. They use that to build a better picture. What they do not do is shout out about it all because that tells Moscow Centre what they know and what they can do now is leave the KGB guessing as to the damage.
I don’t think any of the characters will have an easy next few months.
The FBI will avoid scandal and bad press, so Stan may just have a lot of questions and eventually slide into retirement. Though in any real world he’d have called it in, waited till the junctions were boxed off, there was at least a couple of agents behind him on the street and then gone in. But that would have been a different stan and a different show.
Paige? I think her Jennings life is burnt and that she now has to live as whoever that passport says she is. She won’t have it easy but she might manage it and if so, she won’t face FBI grilling (good news for stan as I think she’d crack fairly fast), though she did show a late aptitude for quick thinking in the garage.
Henry? Truly don’t know but - if the FBI keep a lid on it all then he’s simply the son of a travel agent who did a runner. He probably won’t get a Govt job but he may just go pro hockey.
I think Arkady has a solid plan; he looked calm and if P&E were on a KGB watch list they’d not have got much past the border; I was expecting a roadblock so much I thought I saw one - that would have led to a hail of bullets. The internal politics of the Soviet Union meant that any number of deals might have been done. Illegals exposed in the USA? Can the Director of Dept S explain? But here is his Deputy who extricated two of our longest serving agents! That’s it for the Director and a reason why he might join the coup a years later. Arkady gets his job, secures P&E and continues to train, infiltrate and operate illegals in the USA.
Oleg? If we can write our own endings, of course he’s traded, probably after a year or two as glasnost really cranks up a gear.
All that said, I’m now going to indulge in classic doublethink. I am happy to game it out in my mind but I’m also deeply frustrated that there was no definitive closure. We watch TV to be told a story, not to write it ourselves. Or have we, comrades, been given the opportunity here to break the narrative dialectic?