ForeverAlone
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Posts posted by ForeverAlone
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The Barson connection has been wonky since Warren left, in my opinion. Under Warren, Rafael and Olivia were good supportive friends, but they also didn't hesitate to go at each other if they were on opposite sides of a case. I never got a romantic vibe from Rafael toward Olivia. He was protective of her, but he is fairly protective of all the women he cares about. Then it seemed like Rafael was rolling over and allowing Olivia to pressure him on what cases to take to trial, even weak cases that should have never seen the inside of a courtroom. Plus it seemed like Rafael kept reaching out to Olivia, only to be rebuffed over and over again by her. Then whatever that weird, emotional goodbye speech that really didn't say all that much. Like I've said before, I think the writers and producers wanted to have it both ways. They couldn't actually put Rafael and Olivia in a relationship, but they played to the Barson fans as much as they could get away with, to the detriment of their professional relationship and Rafael's character development and professional competence.
Even now, when Olivia is my least favorite character on SVU, I look back at how Rafael and Olivia's friendship and work relationship was written in seasons 14-17, and still appreciate what it was and how they interacted. It's only in the past two seasons where I really grew to hate the Barson connection more often than not.
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5
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The more I think about Rafael's final speech to Olivia, the weirder it becomes for me. Now let me preface this by saying that I was pleased with the outcome, meaning I was so glad and relieved Rafael walked away from Olivia and that seemed like a goodbye. A sad, emotionally charged goodbye, but a goodbye nonetheless. But I'm still trying to figure out the emotional reason behind that speech. When he started that speech out (and up until his final line), it sounds like he was confessing his love for her. So much so, I was afraid he would either propose or take her in his arms for a passionate kiss. And maybe he was. But why would being in love with someone cause someone that much pain, if they had such a positive influence on you? Why would they need to move on if they were in that much love? Unless what Rafael was saying (that she made him see colors-still pisses me off because it basically pisses on the first 15 years of his career and makes him seem like he was damaged when he came to SVU- and that now he became her) was that she was his emotional downfall and he needed to walk away. And I could wholeheartedly get behind that explanation, because so many SVU fans- except the Barson fans- have been saying for a while that Olivia's influence over Rafael has weakened his character and certainly weakened his professional competence.
It's almost like the writers were trying to have it both ways. They have been throwing red meat to the Barson shippers for the past two seasons, but there seemed like an uptick this season. But they didn't seem to want to pull the trigger and have them actually in a relationship (even in an offscreen relationship now that Raul is no longer part of the show). So they basically had him tearfully confess his feelings (or at least it seemed, because he never actually said that he was in love with her), and then walk away. It's honestly kind of bizarre, and if I was on the receiving end of a speech like that, I wouldn't know what to think. I mean, a good friend of several years (the writers never seemed to portray Olivia as desiring Rafael, because he was always the one making overtures of company to her, while she rebuffed him, so I have a hard time thinking she harbored this crush on him) just confesses that he can now see colors and his heart is opened because of me, but then tearfully kisses me on the forehead and says he must move on. I'd be thinking "WTF just happened?" Of course as an audience member, I'm still thinking that.
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That pretty much the current state of this show. Just like how Rafael's last speech was about amazing Olivia was, and she barely said anything about him. Even though HE was the one leaving. It's all about her, and that is the show's biggest detriment right now, in my opinion.
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7
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If you read the subtext of his exit interview, Raul was definitely unhappy with the writing and characterization for Rafael in season 18 (understandably, since the legal writing was often dumb last season). He seems very complimentary of Michael's legal writing, but I wonder if he truly likes some of the stuff. He complimented the emotional complexity of his exit episode, but I have a hard time believing he was ecstatic that one of Rafael's last acts was to kill a baby and go on trial. It certainly wasn't the exit he imagined (whatever that was). I have rarely had a problem with the way Raul acted his part, but I often had serious qualms about the quality of writing for his character. He acted dumb and out of character at times, because he was poorly written at times. I bet Raul really missed Warren, because he wrote better for Rafael.
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7
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Rafael apparently has been a prosecutor for 21 years, but has only learned to see colors in the past six years. Way to completely denigrate the first 15 years of his career (was it all in Brooklyn, or was it elsewhere). He was a badass, hot shit lawyer who got shit done and won complicated cases when he first got to Manhattan. If that is Rafael lacking color, I'm just fine with him staying in black and white.
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12
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Season 18 hadn't even shown up on Netflix. Maybe this is the season everybody would just prefer to forget.
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That dynamic has been that way for a while. Rafael was always the one asking her for drinks and dinner and to come over. But she kept rebuffing him. Now as an ANTI Barson shipper I was happy about that, but it does seem odd to continually push that dynamic. Or at least it just shows that everybody on this show must worship Olivia and think she is the sun, moon and stars, without her doing much appreciation in return. But again, I am just grateful that Rafael walked away from Olivia and didn't get down on one knee and propose.
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5
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I fear St. Olivia will break down Peter's objectivity as well. I've seen hints that point in that direction from interviews, and it pisses me off that this show writes a freaking cop as knowing the law better than seasoned prosecutors. Oh hell no!
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5
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35 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:
During the final Barba-Benson dialogue, did anyone else get a Han-Solo-Princess-Leia-I-love-you-I-know flashback?
I think I may have laughed a little.
I laughed with relief at that point. At least the final scene wasn't in her bed or something. :) :) :)
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6
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I think I will just put this episode out of my canon mindset. I will just imagine that Rafael got an amazing job offer he couldn't resist. I'll pretend this show didn't devolve Rafael's character to this absolute low point where he is helping a baby that is not his, die. If the mother wanted him to die, she should have done it herself. It just felt so out of character for Rafael to actually pull the baby's plug. I get that he wrestled with guilt over the obligation to prosecute the father in some sense (even if it was just to offer probation), and I can get why he would empathize with the mother's pain. But I just can't wrap my head around him telling the mother to leave the room and him making the decision himself to kill that baby. Nope. I get shades of gray and all that, but I just can't see how Rafael would make that leap for a baby he didn't even know.
And I will imagine that cringe worthy final conversation between Rafael and Olivia didn't happen. It is almost embarrassing how much the writers destroyed Rafael's character to the point where he is worshiping at the altar of St. Olivia. I mean, he literally said he became her at the end. At least he chose to move on (and I imagine he'll do something good with his life). The mandate to make her the center of all things and a virtual infallible goddess is the main reason this show is a shadow of itself at its greatest, in my opinion.
That said, I'll probably continue to watch, and at least I can rest assured there won't be anymore Barson scenes where I want to throw something at the TV. I liked the character of Peter Stone on Chicago Justice, and I'll probably like him here. Even though I highly disagree with the writing that forced Rafael to do what he did, I agree that he should have been prosecuted (though if Peter really did want to convict Barba, he probably overcharged him with second degree murder and not something lesser). I like his objectivity, and I dearly hope HIS character isn't watered down to worship Olivia.
The rest of the team was sadly underused, and none of them even got to send Rafael off. Of course, none of the other character relationships matter, except the relationship they have with Olivia. *sighs*
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Remember how the show unceremoniously dumped two original cast members in the middle of season 15? It's certainly possible that the show could do that to a cast member who has only been on five and a half years, particularly to make room for Michael's new toy (and I say this as someone who really likes Peter Stone and would love to see Peter and Rafael actually working together as colleagues). Plus the fact that this show has never had two main lawyers together, and it seems like Phillip is joining the cast full time. Granted I would love to see more lawyering, but this is a show now built around the worship of Olivia Benson, and more lawyering would take away from that. I also might think differently if the show hadn't gone to the misconduct well for Rafael last year. But two years in a row? It just seems like it is a desperate, overused trope if this was simply for drama's sake. If they wanted some team misconduct to justify bringing in an outside lawyer, they could have done the same thing with Olivia or Carisi or someone, since Rafael wouldn't be able to prosecute them, due to conflict of interest.
Now I personally don't have a problem with Raul leaving, since the writers have trashed his character in many ways. Unless it was to make way for Barson of course, which would just make me angry.
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Who wants to take the over/under on if this is Raul's last episode? I don't see how McCoy could or would keep Rafael as an ADA, not after prosecuting him for some sort of misconduct. I mean if this show wanted to have two ADAs working together, why introduce the new ADA by tearing down the old ADA? That, plus some of the secrecy around this episode makes me think it is Raul's swan song.
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I think Rafael dismissed the charges mid trial, because by that point, he honestly wasn't sure who the real rapist was. When he took the case to trial, he was pretty confident the Antifa guy was guilty, even with Martha's somewhat hesitant ID. But he also didn't have the full facts, and then Randy emerged as a plausible rapist mid trial, and Martha had left out some key information about him. It's one thing for a prosecutor to bring a case where they sincerely believe the defendant was likely guilty and then have the defense get them off because of reasonable doubt. But a prosecutor has to weigh many different factors when prosecuting a case, and one of those is the rights of the accused. I think Rafael weighed the possibility that the Antifa guy could actually be innocent (or at least there was too much reasonable doubt in his mind), and didn't want to risk a wrong conviction. Or at least that is how I interpreted his actions.
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Yeah I saw that promo. I found it rather cringe worthy. I get that Olivia is on Rafael's side, but damn does she act unprofessional to someone who is just doing his job and doesn't have an ax to grind with Rafael. It's the times like this I really miss Cragen. He was a far better leader of SVU than Olivia has been.
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Hmmm...another sneak peek.
Overall I thought this was an interesting clip that reveals something about Rafael we didn't exactly know and see how McCoy and Rafael interact (and give us a hint about where this episode is going). Though one small point of continuity. Back in season 16's "Padre Sandunguero" Rafael told Nick this his father had been dead for 15 years by that point. Granted that is just a small point, since the overall circumstances of his death could be the same and just the timeframe different, but I always cringe when show writers start screwing with the details of a character's backstory. Though in this case, it's probably just a matter of the writer not having seen or remembered that episode. But still...
And more sneak peek for McCoy and Peter Stone.
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Another sneak peek.
I have to think that the whole episode will turn toward Rafael's "misdeeds" by mid episode, if they want to get in enough screen time to introduce Peter Stone to the new job and set up wherever they are going with this story. I will say this. If this episode involves JUST a suspension or censure for Rafael, I think that is a story miscalculation, if only because that plot device was used last season against Rafael. How many times can an ADA be suspended and still keep his job? Because if this whole mess was just to set up Raul's absence for a few weeks to account for his work in "Chess", there are plenty of other ways to go about it without bringing down/muddying the waters of an established character. They could easily have either written episodes that don't require an ADA's actual presence (something the writers have done every season, since Raul has never appeared in every season's episodes), or they could have sent him on a long, deserved vacation and used that absence to set up Peter Stone's introduction to the series. But to go to the well for a second year in a row on unethical conduct on the same character seems rather eyebrow raising, if Rafael will still have a job by the end of it all. Maybe Rafael will be acquitted by the end and all will be well, but when a DA is willing to prosecute one of his ADAs for misconduct, I can't see how that DA wouldn't fire the ADA even in the face of an acquittal. How could McCoy fully trust Rafael again on the job after all of this? So if this is all just to set up Raul's real world exit, I am "okay" with it, only because there would be lasting consequences for his behavior. Granted I would not be "ok" if this show destroy's Rafael's character completely as an exit plot, rather than just simply have Rafael take a new job elsewhere. But I can't be supportive of this show having these type of storylines over and over again, simply for drama's sake.
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Andy's initial recurring contract was for one year, but it's not like they told Andy at the beginning they were going to kill off his character. But when Andy approached producers to tell them about the Groundhog Day opportunity, they told him that it was fine, since they were killing off Baby Dodds by the end of the season.
I would not be SHOCKED if Raul chooses to leave or is let go mid season. It happens all the time on different shows. Hell, this show kicked Richard Belzer and Dann Florek to the curb mid season 15.
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Hmmm...this doesn't exactly quell my unease for how this episode will play out for my beloved Rafael. It doesn't help that this is the last episode for at least a few weeks likely, so we won't see the fallout immediately.
These are also some interesting soundbites to explain how Peter Stone is brought into the Manhattan DA's office.
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I was glad Mellie clapped back at Jake for his comment that Olivia killed Bashad because she couldn't keep her legs closed. I just kept thinking about how often Fitz's dick caused him to make way too many poor decisions, including using the military to go to war to get his girlfriend back.
Olivia screwed Jake for fun and Jake screwed Olivia to get a promotion.
I like bitch boss Mellie.
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My biggest problem with the whole Barson connection is she frequently badgers him to take weak cases to court, and then he either gets his ass handed to him in embarrassing fashion, or something goes wrong with the case, only to be saved by some intervention from Olivia (and an implausible conviction from the jury). The way their connection is too often written seems to build up Olivia's intuition at the expense of Rafael's professional competence and judgment. That her legal acumen is somehow better than his, and she saves his ass way too often. TO ME, it comes across as a lopsided connection with Rafael seeming to defer to her on legal matters, even though it is his area of expertise. Pretty much all of the SVU connections between Olivia and the other characters are written this way, but the connection with Rafael pisses me off the most, because he is my favorite character, and his job is completely separate from hers. Olivia may be the team's boss, but she isn't Rafael's, and she should have no say in how the ADA tries cases.
Combine that with this season's uncomfortable tendency for Rafael to sacrifice legal plausibility for some sort of SJW crusade ("Flight Risk" being the most egregious example from this season), and it makes me sad what the writers have done with my favorite character. I want him back!
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Episodes like this make me long for a hardcore, scary psychopath who kills because s/he enjoys it. I am sick to death of some sort of overwrought family trauma being the root cause of serial killings. This show used to creep me out and disturb me. Now, way too often, I just roll my eyes. And did they seriously solve this case in a day? Yeah okay, whatever.
I assume Barnes replaced Mateo Cruz? I might have missed any reference to him (because I was only half listening since the case didn't keep my interest very much), but he is the BAU's direct boss. Otherwise, Barnes shouldn't be just allowed to insert herself as the direct oversight of the BAU. I guess they want to recreate the wonderful bitchiness of Erin Strauss (down to Emily profiling Barnes), but it just feels like a sad copy.
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There seemed to be a few questionable legal things in this episode.
1. Yes, the judge should never have allowed the witness to say who he would remove from the jury. And if he had, that one juror who had an outburst should have been removed. I don't know if a mistrial would have been called, because Randy wasn't the defendant (though the defense certainly raised enough reasonable doubt that he COULD be the rapist). There was no real prejudice to the actual defendant. But yes, at a minimum, that one juror should have been removed.
2. From my understanding of the law, is that SVU builds the case and when complete, hands it off to the ADA for prosecution. But it seemed like they were still investigating when Rafael started to prepare his prosecution. If SVU was genuinely skeptical about the victim's ID, they should have kept investigating. Then they would have likely found out about Martha's rejection of Randy. Of course that strand of investigation was hampered by the fact that Martha was bound and determined to accuse the Antifa guy, even though she wasn't SURE that he was the one who raped her.
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I do. Based on this, it seems like my worst fears might come to pass. It looks like McCoy is going to side with Olivia on this case, and they are making Rafael out to be the unethical bad guy. I imagine Raul has to step away from the show for a few weeks to do "Chess", but there would have been no need to destroy Rafael's character to do so. Assuming he is not fired or disbarred (since Michael Chernuchin said that Peter Stone would be a thorn in Rafael's side, I assume Rafael keeps his job for the rest of the season), I assume he ends up censured or suspended again. I will scream bloody murder if this episode destroys Rafael, while simultaneously burnishing Olivia's halo. I want HER to be taken down a peg or two, professionally, and not the other characters I prefer more.
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The past couple years, political episodes on SVU make me cringe, because they are so over the top and with very little nuance to either side. I mean, Martha was such an over the top, uber cold bitch, with not even a little bit of humanization after being the victim of a crime. And don't get me started on how she characterized Rafael, who was trying to do right by her, because it is his own job, and she deliberately made it more difficult for him to secure a conviction. Then she turns around and blames him in the end. Both the leftists and rightists were basically caricatures of each other. I get those types of people actually do exist, but it gives the feel of some political PSA when employed in a dramatic episode.
Sure there was a little attempt by Olivia to empathize with Martha in the beginning, but she was certainly quick to assume she was lying. If she was this skeptical with every victim, I wouldn't care, but for every other victim, they could flat out lie to Olivia about details, change their story multiple times and Olivia would be solidly in their corner until the bitter end. Okay, she tried again, but everything was just so unpleasant.
I did appreciate Rafael trying to do his job professionally, sensibly and also a bit sensitively. He was acutely aware of the political challenges of this case and how his victim apparently was making his case more difficult. But he tried nonetheless in the beginning. He has to assume that his complaining witness was telling the truth; otherwise he can't exactly bring a case to trial. I liked the interplay between Rafael and the defense attorney, because it's been a while since we have seen that sort of amiable legal combat between the ADA and the defense.
I did like the doubt brought in against Randy by the defense attorney. It's that sort of surprise that makes courtrooms scenes so much fun. I do wonder why SVU didn't do a little more due diligence if Olivia was really and truly convinced that Randy was the rapist, or at least that Martha's initial ID was suspect. They could have discovered that whole encounter with Randy in the bar beforehand, especially since they thought Martha was misleading them.
If this case was not about politics, but rather a victim who couldn't really remember and there were two different legitimate suspects, the episode would be more interesting for me. The legal questions for Rafael about the truth of the case, even mixed with an unsympathetic victim, could be a good moral quandary. I didn't even mind his choice to dismiss the case, because he couldn't be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was really and truly the rapist. I just wish that poisonous politics were not the underpinning for this episode.
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Season 19 Spoilers & Speculation
in Law & Order: SVU
I find it interesting how often the show has returned to the Cassidy well over the years. I don't particularly hate Cassidy, though he always comes across rather rough and not that smart. I wouldn't mind seeing Munch or Cragen again, just to change it up a bit.
As for Dominic's niece, it will be interesting to see how that all plays out. This show has had an extensive history of playing fast and loose with their characters' back stories, and writing character stuff that fits the episode at hand, rather than building a coherent character with a coherent back story.