WildStyle

Marie (to Frank about ogling Robert's young girlfriend) Congratulations Frank. You are officially a dirty old man.

Robert was whining about Amy not being in the picture before Debra's parents even showed up. Marie says when Amy becomes a Barone, she'll be in a picture. Then afterwards, Debra's parents showed up, and Marie had a fit. Then Robert went to Ray with an attitude to complain.

It's been a min since I watched the episode. I remember Robert mentioning the alternation as something that was stopping. Looking at the script, you are right. It appears the rotation may still be happening. But looking at what Debra says, she was not taking Marie's year away. They'd still be spending Xmas with her, after spending Xmas eve with her parents. So I don't get that as being a great offense. Plus, I think this happened a month or so before Christmas, so Marie could get the gift on time. This wasn't putting anyone on the spot with a last min deal. So her suggestion didn't seem unreasonable, and Marie came off very childish in her response & outlook. Then you have to factor in since they live right next door, Marie sees the kids everyday -something Warren & Lois don't. All the more reason why Xmas could be spent with family that's hardly ever seen. Now an episode I disagree with Debra on, and thought she was a brat in was Thanksgiving in season 1. That was Marie's year that Debra took away completely and she waited until the last min when Thanksgiving was a week away to spring it on Marie, when the latter probably already had plans and started preparing. So on the flip, THAT"S the episode I sided with Marie on, and didn't fault her for making her own Turkey when Debra decided to cook fish.

She didn't change it. Something happened off screen. I forget what it was. But it was mentioned that they weren't doing the rotation anymore. So Debra suggested a compromise. They could go see her parents Xmas eve, and be back with Frank & Marie at 10:00 am. She brought it up with Ray and when Marie came over, she talked to Marie about it as well. Frank said it was fine and that he'd be in a better mood at 10:00. But no. For Marie, seeing the kids when she wanted to was more important. So she pouts, and puts on a crying face to tell Debra she's killing Christmas. Debra asks for Ray to support her,just like she agreed to do the picture. And Ray sides with mommy. So that picture became Debra's consolation prize that she gave herself. So I love watching Ray & Marie suffer in that episode. I have no sympathy for either of them. I thought Marie, Ray, and Robert were the bad ones in that episode.

It was payback for BOTH Ray and Marie. Debra wanted something for Christmas, and because it wasn't convenient for Marie, she accuses Debra of ruining the holiday, and Ray sides with her. So Debra did what she wanted, and something that would make her happy, regardless of how Ray or Marie felt since they clearly didn't care how she felt. So once she got shut down by both of them again, she retaliated by doing her own thing. So that picture became a gift she was giving herself too. I don't blame her there. lol For once, Marie was not getting her way. And Ray got to be in Debra's shoes -dealing with a family that's never satisfied and having a spouse who doesn't care and won't help you.

Debra has stood up to Marie. But she can never win because Ray & Robert always side with Marie, and Frank stays out of it. It's a case of Marie being a dictator. And no matter how strong you are, you can go against a dictator with no back-up, which Debra never got from Ray or Robert. Occasionally Frank would help her, but it was rare. Examples 1. When she invited her parents for the Christmas picture. Marie had a hissy fit about Debra's parents being in it, and Debra didn't care. 2. Or when Marie criticizes her being a bad mother, Debra is about to say something, then Ray jumps in and changes the subject. 3. When Marie says the twins look like hobos, Debra tells her to stop being passive and be direct with her. Marie smirks and says it's hard to be direct when Debra can't take helpful suggestions. The Debra says she'll handle the kids tomorrow without Marie, and asks how that is for direct. Marie just shrugs and says at least she's finally doing something before leaving. 4. The Mother's Day episode 5. The Be Nice episode 6. Or the DUI episode at Amy's party, when Debra bluntly tells Marie that she doesn't need her for Anything. Marie pours her food out and leaves. Then Debra still loses at the end because Marie has to drive her around, and she makes Debra admit to needing her before doing so. Debra has opposed Marie on a few occasions. But it's always a lost battle for her. And sometimes, Debra just lets stuff roll off her back because she can never win. That's why she wanted Amy & Peggy around so bad. She'd get back-up from them and shut Marie down more. Whereas the men in the family are scared of Marie. I can also agree with CherryAmes. When it comes to family, it's best to handle your own blood so no boundaries get crossed. Like the pilot. Debra wanted time without her in-laws on her birthday and wanted Ray to talk to them. Why Ray? because it's his family and it'd be more understanding & appropriate coming from him. If Debra had gone over there and told them to stay at home, she'd be villainized and possible seen as tying to separated Ray from his family. Whereas if he talked to them, it would look more like something he & Debra would've mutually agreed on. Rather than Debra being behind his back and splitting them up.

But even that didn't seem like too big a moment. When Kevin mentioned him, he says Roy asked for a newspaper guy or a Chinese person. lol But on the flip, he gets enough recognition that Jerry Musso hated how successful he was for being dumb -mentioning that you apparently don't have to be smart to have a career in the business. It goes back & forth. Sometimes he's a decent writer -nothing special. The next he's world famous almost. lol

Speaking of money. Frank & Marie say they bought the house for 26,000. In season 4, they just finally got the house paid off. But Marie could accumulate 46,000 by herself as a housewife. Meaning she had enough money to damn near pay off the house in season one. So why did Frank not have the money, and only finally managed to do it 3 seasons later?

When Ray was having trouble in The Checkbook, Robert had $3,000 to give him. So he's broke when the plot calls for it.

Yeah, the show has tons of holes and needs a lot of suspension of disbelief when you really look. I always found it unrealistic that Robert would be a cop as much of a wuss as he was. He's scared of his parents, gets spooked staying alone (even though he should have a gun), and freaks out at the slightest thing. Yet he's working on a job chasing down criminals and dealing with severed body parts. Judy seemed to have a bigger pair than Robert. lol But this may just be me.

And I love that Ray was right about Bernie & Lynda. In season 1 where Debra starts moaning, Ray tells her they've only been married 2 years. He tells her Bernie & Lynda don't have kids so there's no exhaustion and noise. And he's right. They been married a good few years longer and have a baby, now they're in counselling. Clearly all the huggy buggy honeymoon stuff didn't last.

A Harpy episode I think is Move Over. Ray can't sleep with her cuddled up to him. So Debra takes personal offense and thinks Ray has a problem because he doesn't wanna be cramped up while sleeping. Then yells about how he needs help and for him not to call her "honey." Then after getting back from seeing Father Hubley, Debra asks if he went to see someone about his "problem." She did the same in another Harpy episode in season 1. Bernie & Lynda are making out during their night out. Then Debra comes home in a bad mood, asking why Ray can't be affectionate with her. Surely she knew he wasn't the most overly affectionate guy before they got married. Now, when another couple -newlyweds at that, are having foreplay at dinner, she wants Ray to be that way. Then it becomes an issue of him never saying I love you, and saying that something is wrong with a person who doesn't do that. Some people are not the huggy buggy, snuggly sort. And that's not a problem. Just preference. I am a woman, and I don't wanna sleep crammed up next to someone. I want space and room when sleeping. lol

Then he finds out Debra let Lisa go for good, and gets mad about her "stupid insecurities." lol oh Ray

It was the one where Ray comes home. Debra & the kids are just finishing dinner. Ally says she likes Debra's new haircut, and asks if Ray will notice. Then they bet on it. The kids bet he won't notice, and he doesn't. When Ray finds out, he accuses Debra of turning his kids against him. Then says her hair is junky. Then says that Marie turned him & Robert against Frank, and every bad thing they think about him is Marie's fault. And that Debra is exactly the same. And he's gonna go apologize to Frank. Then ranting to Frank about "wives" making the kids think they're bad fathers. Marie asks if he's taking Frank's side, and Ray says he's not on anyone's side, because he's the son. But he was clearly on Frank's side. Like this exchange. Marie "I spent the best years of my life trying to get an ounce of compassion from this man. And he gave me nothing." Ray "Don't tell me! Tell him!" Marie "You gave me nothing Frank!" Frank "Thanks a lot Ray" Ray "Just leave him alone, ma." So he tells Marie to go to Frank with her complaints, then when she does, he sticks up for Frank and tells her to back off. How is he not sticking up for Frank, and taking his side? Debra didn't seem to have any manipulative or covert agenda there. But Ray blew it way out of proportion. Deep down, I think he knows he's a bad father. He wants the kids to automatically adore him without having to earn it. He spends no time with them, and even admits they bore him. But if someone points it out, or seems more popular, they become public enemy #1 for why his kids aren't impressed with him. He was the same way in Say Uncle. But when Ray is insecure about something, he lashes out at the other people as the problem.

Harpy or Bratty 1. Young Girl 2. Meant to Be 3. High School 4. Boob Job 5. Lateness She was way to self-righteous in the first 2, then bragging on herself like she deserves some kind of medal for her "accomplishments" because Robert does stuff she claims she's never done. Bravo Debra... 3. Ray didn't wanna go to his HS reunion, and Debra won't let it rest until she's dragged him there because she just had to see that part of his life. Then afterwards, Ray clearly wasn't happy and Debra resorts to calling him a geek and teasing him the duration of the episode as a dork. 4. She was just goading Ray into a fight here and making a federal case of guys liking women with big breasts. Then accusing Ray of lying to her for 10 years whenever he said she looked good. Then her saying she has working breasts, and the audience cheering like she made a Presidential speech was eye-rolling. 5. She & Ray made a clear-cut deal about when they would leave. She was dressed and ready, then just had to go back and do that one last curl in her hair when she was already down to 2 min. So when Ray leaves, then she gets pissed off. Saint 1. Whose Side Are You On -Ray was at his most hate-able for me in this episode. I haven't even watched it three times. It's one I avoid. And I think Debra was too nice when she actually apologized to him. 2. Debra's Work Out -Once again, Ray was annoying. And Debra handled it much nicer than I would've lol 3. Italy -She was very understanding of Ray harming her when they were out. lol She was just happy to be spending time with him. 4. Fun with Debra -She wanted to spend time with him, and spend the day golfing. It's something she hates, but was willing to do because he likes it. Then Ray accuses her of ruining golf for him because he can't enjoy it if he's gotta do it with her. 5. The Ingrate. She was very nice about that. What bonehead mentions his entire family, yet forgets the woman he's married to and just had sex with the previous night.