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26 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Both Ian and Paul loved playing the darker characters. Ian especially loved the early season bad Damon, not the romantic good guy. Nina leaving gave him that freedom to bring that Damon back. I think he even promoted how the old Damon was going to return, it's what he probably always wanted.

And Nina loved playing Katherine, it's a real chasllenge and real.ly interesting for actors

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16 minutes ago, dreamcatcher said:

Well I agree with you that Elena was the focus on the show and I did give up on it after season 6, only returning for the final two episodes. But they tried too hard to save the show by saying that it was always about Defan. And those who did stay for those last 2 years I'm sure appreciated the Defan final scene. The thing is, as a viewer who still thinks of Elena as the main character of tvd, it makes sense that I would want Elena to have the final scene. However, she was gone for two years. She only came back for one episode (which was a mistake imo) and they didn't even make a big fuss about it. They took the focus away from Elena and that's why they did it. Plus, this episode was all about using familiar phrases from past seasons so I get why they wanted to finish off the series with the "hello brother" line.

Btw, I wanted more of Elena in general. After 6 seasons of misery, I wanted at least a few happy scenes for her. 

I guess you missed the big fuss they made about her return before and after the confirmation. It doesn't matter that Nina left. I'm talking storywise it should have been Elena's scene the last one

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5 minutes ago, dreamcatcher said:

.

I think that if the finale was in S6 or Nina had stayed until the end, having Elena's reunion as the final moment would be more appropriate. But they spent two years focusing on the brothers, the whole episode had them trying to save each other and Elena was a tiny part of it so Defan reunion being the last scene I think makes sense in that context.

 

I disagree. The brothers relationship was the focus only for 2 seasons when Elena was for 6.And no one said that the brothers reunion shouldn't happen but it sure shouldn't be the last scene of the series because the series wasn't about their relationship

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1 minute ago, ComeWhatMay said:

I didn't watch it, but based on what I see here, that's almost sadistic on the part of the OTH writers to have Bush act that out. It feels like they were trying to make a point with her. I read about the situation in the press at the time (CMM with Paris Hilton, what Bush did & did not know prior to marrying CMM about his ways, Kenzie Dalton, the extra, Kenzie's rumored abortion, "Dirty Dan", etc.) & I thought Bush did well throughout/head held high... Writers & actors are human so I get having favorites. Plec looked out for Damon in the finale, Williamson should have looked out for Stefan. Knowing what I know now, Stefan's fate amounts to a tantrum on Williamson's part. I know Ian did not want Damon & Elena to wind up together (I also believe that feeling predates Somerhalder's break-up with Dobrev) -- perhaps some folks picked-up on that in his performance... I didn't, but it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Nina didn't want a delena endgame,that didn't keep her from doing her job and be professional,Unlike Ian

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13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t dislike Elena at all, I just prefer the final scene to be Defan and thought that was the approriate ending. So, agree to disagree.   

It's not the appropriated ending since the show started and  was about Elena, losing her parents, feeling dead inside, falling for 2 vampire brothers, Elena losing her whole family.And it should have ended  the last scene, with Elena reuniting with her family.But JP kisses Ian's a...from day one,so no surprise here,Now Defan fans got what they wanted but no, it's not the appropriate ending,not storywise

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Elena,like her or not  was the heart and the soul of the show for 6 years.Everything was about her The brothers relationship was only the focus for the last 2 seasons.The last scene should have been Elena reuniting with her family and right before it, Defan reuniting.This is not supernatural, the brother's relationship wasn't the focus of the show till Nina left.

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18 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I agree with you about Ian and I guess it was about family and you are probably right, the last scene should have been Elena. If only because that would have been a nice book mark. They also should have included her brother in it as well.

Her brother was still alive so it was kinda hard to get him in that scene

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2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Well I was just wondering if everyone felt that way. I've said that many times that I just wanted to hear people's thoughts on the matter.

At the end of the day, the finale was good. If the show wants us The viewers to think that the brothers relantionship were the core  of the show, the finale sort of did that but as someone who watched the earlier seasons I know that wasn't always the case. 

Actually the finale didn't focus on the brothers. It focused on the family.We had  Bonnie seeing her grams.Damon reuniting in the afterlife with Stefan.Elena reuniting in the afterlife with her family.Caroline seeing her mom,Alaric seeing Jo,Matt and his family.So I didn't feel that the focus in the finale was the brothers.But the last scene should have been Elena reuniting with her family. For 6 seasons the show was about Elena, her triangle with the brothers and Elena losing her parents and feeling dead inside, Elena losing her whole family...so for me the last scene should have been Elena reuniting with her family.But whatever,I had no problem with the finale even though I'm no delena fan.I just hate Ian's acting in the whole episode ,He didn't move me once.,not with Paul, not with Nina, not with Candice..he was off

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On 3/18/2017 at 4:27 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

Thanks for the info. I just figured it was more Ian and Nina were dating and the showrunners thought it would be a good idea to get them together. But I've always wondered if the books had something to do with it? I always wondered how paint by numbers the show was from the books.

Seriously?The show was about the triangle.A teenage girl falling for two vampire brothers.So delena was gonna happen,no matter if they were endgame or not.Nian's relatrionship had nothing to do with it. And Nian were over at the end of season 4.Before they started filming season 5.JP could have ended delena as well but didn't.Nian had nothing to do with delena happening or being endgame

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The show was about a triangle, so delena was gonna happen regardless wether they were endgame or not

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Fotr me it's crystal clear that the scene in  the cementery both are alive. But whe they walk in ordinary cloths at the end and Damondisappeared, it's Ejlena who died first and joined her family in teh aftrerlife and Dmaon died after her and joined Stefan.

 

No I don't think that Damon was supposed to be sad, and cood towards  Elena in all these scenes. I can believe it for their reunion when he was right behind Caroline, even though the kiss could have been better,or they could have shown us him carrying her the way he did when it was katherine, ,both crying over Stefan, she pulls aways looks at him in the eyes,wipes his tears with her hand and kisses him on his forhead and hugs him again.It would have been way more emotional than that fake kiss.

But there is no excuse for his look and lack of love and joy around her in  the cementery scene,he was looking backward as if he couldn't wait to be over with it, as if he had better things to do.And that forced smile he had when they were walking in the afterlife...no excuse..He didn't show concern wether he would see his brother or not,,,,he showed indifference towards her..Ian's acting simply sucked

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I don't see the problem with Nina's acting as katherine. I think it was flawless despite of the shitty script. Actually these are the scenes of the finale that I keep rewatching along with Elena's reunion with her family.I see no difference in her acting in this episode than in all the 6 seasons she was in. She's flawless.People are disappointed with katherine's return because of the script. I don't get how anyone can say anything about her acting. She didn't skip a beat playing both, Elena and katherine. We didn't like the script, the wigs, but nothing to say about the acting. It was flawless

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No need for hot sex scene.Just a proper kiss and Damon looking with love showing love at Elena.Not once in all delena's scenes he delivered, unlike Nina.

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1 hour ago, dreamcatcher said:

I think that killing Stefan was the easiest way to end the story tbh. They had to have a major death to have some drama and they couldn't kill Bonnie (who let's be real, I'm sure was their first choice considering her treatment in all the other seasons) because the fans would kill them. Williamson said that if they had more time with Elena, they would have shown a Stelena reunion. So my guess is that if Nina hadn't left the show, they would have killed off Damon and then Elena and Stefan would end up humans and they would have gotten their happily ever after. So now that they knew Delena was going to be endgame, they couldn't have killed Damon, as they would have to find a new ending for Elena, plus Steroline couldn't really work out given that Caroline remained a vampire. So yeah I think that Stefan died only because it was convenient, which is why I can't really get mad. 

 

 

Ok off-topic but THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. Whenever the topic of real-life relationships comes up, this is my no1 example. The writers took so much time to convince us that Brucas were meant to be and Lucas regretted choosing Peyton and then they took everything back and it was sooo frustrating. I get that they have to respect their actors because they are human beings and we can't realistically expect them to not act on their feelings. BUT as I said before, it's their fault if they choose to date their co-stars, because they know that there is always a chance that things will end badly. You can't change storylines because your actors can't work together... I mean in any kind of professional setting, dating your coworkers isn't permitted, but everyone knows that it still happens. Yet, if you break up with them, you are then forced to work with them without letting it interfere with your job so actors should be doing the same.

That's the thing; by trying to push the whole "it was always about Defan" story they came up with to explain why they would continue their show without their main character, they tried to erase the previous seasons. Even though I agree that after Elena chose Damon she kinda became less important, it was always all about Elena. All the stories were built around her and she was always around even though she shouldn't be. I'm re-watching the first seasons and now I remember why most people hated Elena. No matter what was going on, she would always keep interfering and talking and making everything about her. I liked Elena, but I didn't like their writing. We were told that Elena was a perfect angel and then we would only see a self-centered person who always needed to be rescued. We were told that Stefan wasn't that good, but we would only see a hero. We were told that Damon was pure and innocent before his brother made him change, but we never got to see any of this. Now that I'm re-watching it, it's clear that the writers weren't that good. The core storylines (in the beginning that is) were good, but the execution was awful because we were always told that we should believe x and then they would actually show us the complete opposite. 

Quick question: is this the ending that Smith wrote, or the ghostwriter's ending? Because one of the "rumors" as to why she was fired was that she wanted a Delena ending while her publishers wanted Stelena. And I think that Smith did write Delena as an endgame in her version (the "fanfiction"), but I've stopped reading both versions at some point because I got bored.

Elena never made it all about her. The other characters made it all about her. Let me tell you that no, not most of fans hated Elena, she was hands down the most popular character on the show.Only Stefan/stelena fans and Bonnie/Bamon fans hated her.

the first ones because she dumped Stefan for Damon and the second one because they were jealous she was the leading lady, wanted Bonnie to be the leading lady

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9 hours ago, TaylorBruh25 said:

Aye, I think that's the theme it went for, I think it shows, however flawed & ass backwards in certain places the show was. Damon being Elenas boyfriend wasn't the only problem there, Bonnie and Damon are so contrived it isn't funny, Stefan and Caroline werent the focal point of Liz's death, unfortunately it became another bump on the Damon redemption road around Ep 12 or so. 

 

That's just Delena, Stefan was never actually apart of that they were building Steroline in Season 6. Stefan and Elena had no romantic shot at all, same goes for 5. As I stated earlier, Elena was already in love with Damon by 4x06, the sire bond, her humanity switch, and anger revenge against Katherine were all ways to delay Delena and leave a glint of Hope she'd choose Stefan again. The triangle died in S4, and tbh the build had its true payoff in S3 when Elena made an actual choice. 

Lets say the show is truly pure romance themed, about the triangle, that still includes Stefan and Damon. The show is about them either way, my argument was the tone and message the story told. You're making it sound like The Salvatore's aren't focal to this story. 

No what I'm saying was that the brothers relationship wasn't the focus till Nina left. It has a part in the story but the show wasn't about their relationship till Nina left.No,they could have ended delena in season 5 when both realized how toxic they were together, or when she was compelled to forget her love for Damon, or when she became human.(especially when she said that she didn't care what human Elena would do or feel because human Elena wasn't there, vampire Elena is)..at any of these points she could have gone back to Stefan .So Delena was endgame only after HUMAN ELENA chose him one more time

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1 hour ago, TaylorBruh25 said:

Bonnie and Enzo actually showed more emotion to Stefan's death than Damon and Elena. If there's a giant takeaway from a good episode, (besides Elena killing herself for no reason, which became the dumbest moment in the series) it's Damon and Elena no-selling Stefan's death. 

 

The triangles been dead since Season 4. If we're being technical, 4x06. Elena's mind was made up way before that finale. The triangle didn't even truly begin until 1x11. The entire first 10 episodes is an entire Stefan vs Damon feud. If you ask me, the show's been about them coming together from the start, the triangle was a giant selling point(if we're being honest only worked because of Twilights hype) and as much romance as their was in the show it was always heavy on the Supernatural plots and action. Them always being at the high school (or a dance) made it feel like a pure teen romance but 90% of their high school dialogue is about taking down or finding out more about a giant Supernatural threat. 

The family storyline focus doesn't only include the Salvatore's. Elena whole outlook in the pilot was grief from her parents death, her biggest loss in this show was when Jeremy (her brother) died. Bonnie's big reuniting moment was cut off from Jeremy and immediately overshadowed by Elena and Caroline. The climax of the S1 finale is despite everything Stefan couldn't let his brother die. Same thing in S2. S3s climax is Elena reliving her parents deaths and facing her own. The biggest moment of S6 is Stefan and Damon reuniting, the entire plot of the S5 finale is Damon dying to save his brother. Bonnie as well but she didn't get the deserved focus. 

Point is, if you really try to distinct a theme from this show I think it'd be family and loss. The Salvatore Brothers were the face of that family theme, while Elena Gilbert was the face of the loss. Despite everything in the series Elena Gilbert pushed through (except that one time she compelled it away) and no matter what The Salvatore Brothers fought for eachother. 

Wrong.The triangle died when Elena became human and still chose Damon.Before that, the triangle was still alive even though they showed us that delena had more chances to be endgame since even when compelled to forget her love for Damon, Elena fell in love with him all over again.And that was in season 6

 

The show was never about the brothers so stop pretending otherwise.On;y when Nina left the show focused on the brothers relationship.

That said, of course family was an important theme on the show and I'm very happy that the finale focus was on family.

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They destroyed hell so katherine is in the afterlife with them since she can';t go to hell?

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For me Stelena was still a possibility until she fell for Damon all over agfain despite of her memory loss about him, and when she chose him after taking the cure.Before that, the triangle was still very much alive.In other words the triangle died in season 6

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The falling out happened at Nian';s break up.Kat took Ian's side instead of supporting them both without taking sides.Especially since neither one of them was wrong.Ian was right to want at 34 to start a family and Nina was right to not want to settle down so young and to not force herself into something she wasn't ready for.And that's what Nina's tweet about backstabbing friends was about, not about Nikki.

37 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Agreed. Why couldn't they go with Elena starting her own life independent of the Salvatore brothers while both died at the end? I remember reading that it had been an option, and I do know Ian and Paul both said their happy endings for the series was both brothers dying at the end, but together. 

KW left the show a long time ago. He's so out of touch with what's been going on that his dream ending would have never worked. SE was dead a long time ago, at least by the end of season 5. Once Elena gave no shits about a dead Stefan and wanting to kill herself with Damon while knowing her brother might be alone if Bonnie couldn't bring them back, that ended all possibility of that pairing ever getting back together and having people enjoy them together. So as much as I do enjoy KW's storytelling and I do kind of agree with his points, he's not really part of the show anymore; Plec led the show way down another path that is totally opposite from what KW wants, so his opinion, in the end, is void. 

And yeah, his comment about Stefan needing to die for Delena was stupid as hell. If Stefan can't have Elena, he has to die? That's not a reason for the ending, KW. 

That's the ending I wanted:Elerna moving on from both brothers starting a new life e;lsewhere

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16 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

Yeah I guess I'm also a casual fan since I stopped watching 2 years ago... But for me the story did end at that point. Or to put it in a better way, it was like it was a different show. I know that people got invested in the whole "this has always been Defan's story", but it's not true. All promos were about the love triangle, Nina was the focus of every storyline and well most people ended up hating Elena exactly because she was always no1, always the victim (and somehow the hero) etc. Plus, I hated Caroline's pregnancy as a storyline SO MUCH. I just couldn't watch it.

Aaand I'm still watching re-runs of the first few seasons, which I still adore. TVD was my first "addiction" and the first time I felt like I was part of a fandom so even though I gave up on it, I'm still invested in these characters.

Right..we're supposed to believe that the brothers were the center of the show when Elena was in fact the heart and soul of the show.Till Nina left.The triangle was dead,so they focused on the brothers but ended it on family.not defan.Everyone saw again their lost loved ones,and I was way ,ore moved by Elena reuniting with her family then Damon with Stefan.That scene didn't move me,maybe because we didn't get to see Damon miss his brother alike Elena did her whole family

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10 minutes ago, Cocidius said:

Maybe that was it, but something was definitely off.

Absolut;ly

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1 hour ago, Cocidius said:

I only have one complaint. Nina's acting was hella off. I want to say it was a phoned in performance. Every scene of her's took me out of the moments. Maybe she was out of practice or didn't really want to do it. I just wish it wasn't so bad. It one of those cases be careful what you wish for lol. 

Other than that it was a satisfing ending. 

The one who was off is Ian.Nina totally delivered. She was amazing in her 2 scenes with Bonnie, in the stelena scene, the family  reunion...Only delena's scenes failed because of Ian's acting

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11 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

From the EW article linked above:

I KNEW IT!  I've been saying for years that you can tell when Nina gave her notice in season 6 and it's twofold: the Stefan/Elena reunion foreshadowing and Stefan's lack of romantic interest in Caroline both abruptly changed course.  And I've been shouted down by my friends who say that the show was never going to revisit that leg of the Triangle of Doom because the show had learned its lesson after the backlash when Damon/Elena first got together.  Now that we know they were planning to revisit S/E and that my perception that the first half of season 6 was probably laying the groundwork for the viewers, I feel so satisfied.  Vindication!  I can't wait to rub this in the face of my friends. 

Actually Nina gave her notice TWO YEARS earlier. She litterally begged them to kill off Elena.They had 2 years to close Elena's story and refused to because they wanted a delena endgame

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33 minutes ago, TaylorBruh25 said:

I loved the finale scene probably the most in the finale. It cements that the core story was always this complicated reunion of The Salvatore Brothers. 

This finale did suffer the same as Season 6's, the first half feels like a season finale, while the second half is a Series Finale. 

No.They focused on the brothers only after season 6.The show was about a triangle,a teenage girl falling for 2 vampire brothers