mangosplums
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Posts posted by mangosplums
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I haven't seen the newest episodes yet, but from what I've seen, I think Mady and Cara would benefit from being allowed to have more freedom, away from the rest of the family. I think part of their snarkiness is that Kate drags them around to everything and doesn't appear to let them stay alone at home or do things on their own. That's really smothering for a teen, who is at the age where they are forming their own identity, and figuring out who they are as an individuals away from their parents. I noticed in the episode where they were left on that island it seemed like a really big deal that they were allowed to be alone with their friend somewhere. They are teens. They are old enough to do things themselves. I was going into the city with my friends to shop without my parents at age 13, but I doubt Kate would let her kids do that. Just speculation, maybe it's improved in the newer season because I haven't been able to watch it, but I think if Kate let them have more freedom, their attitudes might improve.
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I wouldn't consider Ben and Derick to be abusive. Just dim-witted.
Jim Bob just wants to manipulate his daughters. His criteria for a husband is someone who allows him to still manipulate his daughters even while they're married. The men that JB approves have the same beliefs as him, that men should oppress women. Jessa and Jill may have happy marriage now, but that's because they've just started. Derrick and Ben may seem like nice guys now, but they hold the belief it is a man's right to oppress women. If they didn't believe that JB wouldn't have approved them.
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I agree that I don't want Jana to marry if she's entering into a more abusive situation. However, it is my hope that JB will view the VSEs as his best chance back onto television, so he will try to optimize VSE opportunities by arranging relationships for fan favorites like Jana or Jinger, and if he's aiming to win back some public favor, he will chose suitors that provide plenty of "FU Internetz!" moments (i.e. a guy with an education, job, home, etc.) JB can't afford another Ben who offends people with his religious rants or Derick who has been accused of missionary grifting. JB needs to pick a suitor with a halo who, even us on the snark boards, can't help but love. He needs to find a Chad Paine, if you will. I would be happy if Jana or Jinger ended up with a Chad Paine-type who genuinely adores them as Chad does Erin as a "silver lining" of this situation.
Any relationship that is approved by JB will be an abusive one. That's his criteria.
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The following post is something that has really been bothering me while reading this forum that I think is really important to say. People here say that they want Jana and Jinger to get married because it would be an escape, and people here worry that they are getting too old. That's wrong, it would never be an escape, not even a little bit. It would just be putting them in a situation where they are controlled by another man, only instead of their father, it would be the one they're married to. They would still be as much enslaved by their husband as they were by their father, and this time the enslavement would be backed up by the law, and take a lot of painful legal battles to get out of. It would make it near impossible for them to escape. Do you want that for Jana and Jinger? I want them to never ever marry a conservative religious Christian who was raised to believe they are the masters of women. I want them to go as long as they can as single women, until they finally get the courage to leave their family and meet new people, and find a life of their own. It might not come till they're 40 or even 50, but it's better at 40 and 50 than never. I hope it could come earlier though. If they get married they'll never be able to get out even at 40, because they are stuck in a culture that does everything to not allow them to divorce, and their husbands will have total control of all their assets.
It isn't sad that Jana hasn't gotten married or courted. It's a sign of strength. She's resisting. She doesn't want to be controlled by a man who believes she's inferior to him and will take away her free will, because that is what all marriages are like in their culture, and Jana doesn't want that. I applaud her for not giving in, for not being guilted into it, for not allowing herself to be brainwashed. There is an incredibly strong and intelligent woman in there, who I truly truly wish can find the will to break free one day. And I hope that Jinger can resist the will to give into the brainwashing too.
I hope they never get married.
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The fact that she didn't say 'NYC' but actually just said 'city' is worse than the original thought that Jinger wanted to move to NYC but couldn't. The idea that she isn't even allowed in any kind of city whether because of the things she'd be exposed to in a city or the distance from her parents is just sickening. While I thought it was terrible that Michele "translated" Jinger after her comment and they truly would never let her move to NYC, at least it's true that many parents would be worried about their daughters living alone in NYC. The fact that it's any city or distance from them is just all the more controlling.
What's worse is that after she said she wanted to live in a city, and after Jill chided her with, "but you'd be happy with whatever god gives you". Jinger said, "contentment, I need to work on contentment".
That is just so sad. That she thinks there's something wrong with her for wanting more, and that if she isn't happy with the limited life her parents have imposed on her, it's because she's a bad person. Ugh.
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I couldn't agree more. I know CPS has a difficult job but any lingering good will I had about CPS doing the right thing vanished when they returned the Naugler kids. If you aren't familiar with them check it out. The family of 10 children was living in a lean-to, and that's a generous description. There were pictures of the family, posted by the mother, laying outside on the dirt seriously ill after eating rotten food they found laying around in their "house" (no refrigeration or ability to cook). Pictures proudly displaying a third degree burn on her 8 year old son's hand saying how great it was that he tried to start the fire to keep them warm. It went on an on. Not to mention the oldest child who had a different mother. He was taken away from his dad before he had the huge family with someone else because his father was sexual abusing him. But apparently he's ok to have custody of his other 10 kids. Last I heard the father was awaiting trial on charges of menacing his neighbor and stealing water from her. So even Josh's abuse would likely not have done much to get CPS to remove the kids and unless you remove them nothing will really change.
Omg, I feel sick reading this. Are the kids still with the family?
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This!
Otherwise you are taking these women's power away.
Thank you both of you for articulating something I've been feeling about the situation, but didn't know how to put into words, or was afraid to say. It's the victim's right to define how they feel about the situation, it happened to them, not you, you weren't there. It bothers me when people tell women/men who have been abused how they should feel about what happened to them, simply because it's the way society has taught us victims are supposed to feel.
Controvesial statement to follow, but sometimes I wonder if tellling victims they are supposed to be traumitized by something that they didn't originally view as traumitizing does more harm then good. No doubt abuse of any kind has long term affects on anyone who experiences it, but sometimes I get the feeling that people try to force victims to feel a certain way about what they've experienced, simply because that experience falls into a certain category. Or people try to force someone to feel like a victim, and everything that comes with that label, even if they themselves don't actually feel like a victim. The person who the thing actually happened to gets to define how they feel about it, even if the way they feel doesn't fit into the general scripts we've been taught in society. Just as it's wrong to tell someone that something that happened to them is no big deal, if they feel it is a big deal, it's wrong to tell someone that something is a huge deal and they should feel worse about it, if they don't feel that way. Bottom line, the victim gets to define the situation, and however they feel about it is the truth of the situation.
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The therapist had misgivings about Jill and Jessa doing their own interview since the clips of the interview showed that Jill was clearly distressed and crying. Jessa wasn't crying but she spoke with a shaking voice. The expert said that putting them out on display right now could re-traumatize them and cause even deeper damage.
That is really upsetting. I didn't see the preview, but to hear how they are behaving is worrisome. I was really hoping that it was thier own idea to do this interview and that they had insisted on it, so they coud set the recond straight in thier own words, but the fact that they are so upset and uncomfortable talking about it on camera (rightfully so) leads me to believe they were told by JB and Michelle to do this interview, which is just awful, and definitely retraumatizing. I feel for them.
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I've always had a very different reaction to Josh. From the very first moment I saw him on camera I read him as incredibly arrogant--and too stupid to know how stupid he actually is. Even watching their first special, Josh made my skin crawl, and my radar was screaming RELIGIOUS MALE PRIVILEGE. I once worked in the law office of two men who belong to (yet another) religion in which men are the "real people" and women exist to function as their support staff. Even though both of these guys were "nice" men, their sense of rightful dominance just oozed off them. Like Josh, they were raised from the cradle to believe that they have a grand, god-ordained destiny, and their psyches are full to the brim with their own magnanimous wisdom and super-specialness. (Even though, compared to REAL MEN these fundie losers are often dorky, simplistic, and not terribly attractive. *cough- Jim Bob*)
This, this, this, this, this! From the second you see him you can tell this. He's one of those idiot douches that you can tell is naturally that way. I think he'd be one no matter what upbringing he had, though his upbringing makes it way worse. Some men are just naturally like that.
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The idea that any of the older daughters/kids hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid 100% is just wishful thinking. Every one of them is completely brainwashed, including Jana. However, now that this scandal has broke, their show will likely be taken off the air (or at least shrunk), and thier family will stop being treated like they're special and amazing. And they will be exposed to cracks in the image their parents have built up. Maybe all of this will lead to one, or more, of them starting to have thier very first grown-up realization that their parents don't actually know anything, that their parents are capable of being wrong, and that they are small humans with faults and misguided notions like every other person on the planet. Maybe they'll start to realize that what they've been taught about life isn't neccessary true and have the first seeds of free thinking happen. Doubtful though.
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Josiah and Marjorie remind me of theatre kids in high school. Marjorie is the theatrical girl who likes to be zany and the center of attention, while Josiah is her gay bff, who tags along with her.
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Anyone have any idea where I can watch the mother's day special online? I've searced everywhere, but no one seems to have uploaded it, which is weird because all the other episodes are uploaded.
Kate Plus 8 - General Discussion
in Kate Plus 8
I don't like it when people criticize Mady. They don't know what it's like to grow up with a narcissist mother like Kate. Mady is just fighting back for her own survival. She's a nice person to other people she interacts with, the rare times we see her interact with them. I think Mady is very smart and witty and I hope she doesn't let Kate influence her too much. I hope she grows up to be a different person than Kate.