RainOnToosdays
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Posts posted by RainOnToosdays
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22 minutes ago, ghoulina said:
I agree that he doesn't have many options. It's not like he is capable of standing up to Negan, even if he WAS so inclined. But I think he has taken it beyond just going along to get along. He is really trying to weasel himself into a position of authority over there and he's loving every minute. He was there in that clearing. He knows what Negan did to his best buddy, Abraham. Yet HE'S the one with the bullhorn rolling up to the gates of his former home. He is embracing the whole "we're all Negan" thing a little strongly for my taste.
36 minutes ago, JackONeill said:I'm not sure what some people want Eugene to do. He's not a fighter, never has been. (Even though when really pressed, he could.) He is in Negan's control. Could he escape -- yes. Would he be caught -- most assuredly. Right now, as a somewhat free man, with access to most things Negan, he can do the most good for CDB, if so inclined. (And, yes, we don't know what he's thinking.)
Eugene's a thinker. A big picture man. He's also a bit of a con artist. I think (but could be way wrong because this is TWD after all) Eugene will pull off a big save for CDB when they really need it. I see Eugene as my old physics professor. He knew lots of things, but he never rushed into ANYTHING he had a 100% feeling about it. Now, with Eugene, I think that percentage should be whittled down because lives are at stake. So, maybe when Eugene is at the 80% mark, then he'll act. But for all we know right now, he isn't even close to being ready. Maybe he needs some other component.
I liken Eugene to Andrea. They both, through no real fault of their own, fell in with the enemy camp. Andrea established a personal relationship with the leader which upped her status, she felt safe, she was enjoying the creature comforts, and even after clear indication that the Gov was bad news, even after finding out her original group was alive and at the prison, she chose to stay with the Gov at Woodbury. With the realization that many people might die, her course of action was not to kill the Gov when she had the chance but to talk in hopes of getting both factions to agree to a diplomatic resolution. Andrea's moral mirror was Michonne. Michonne knew things were wrong and she chose to have no part of it, and she risked her own life in leaving and in trying to kill the Gov. It ended badly for Andrea, with the man she parked her allegiance with killing her for being a traitor. But you know what? When the end came for her Rick's group was there for her and they forgave her.
Eugene's story so far is exactly the same (the only exception being he knew 100% from the very get-go how evil Negan is) and in his story Sasha is his Michonne - an old friend caught up in the same situation but who makes all the opposite choices he did. Eugene has established a relationship with Negan, his status has gone up, he feels safe, he is enjoying all the creature comforts. He knows whats-what but even after being given the opportunity to get away (when Sasha and Rosita arrive) he chooses to stay. He can't bring himself to kill Negan even though he has the opportunity with that second pill, so he tries "diplomacy". That's how I saw it with him going ahead of the convoy with the bullhorn - he wasn't waving Negans's banner, he was hoping that as an old friend his old group would listen to him and back down and thus save lives including theirs. And as in Andrea's case, it didn't help. Now Negan is suspicious of him and given all of the above parallels, it is quite likely he will die at Negan's hands. I really liked Eugene so I can only hope that when it comes around for him, the old gang is there for him with forgiveness in their hearts as they were for Andrea.
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18 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:
Eugene taught them how to get drinkable water. He knew which components were needed to fix the power grid back when the show was still pretending that any of this was about building and maintaining a stable community. He knew which seeds and plants they should be looking for. He risked himself for Tara and later the entire group. He did know how to make bullets and later stepped up and admitted his responsibility for it when he had every reason to think that probably wouldn't end well for him. And he was smart enough to trick the supposedly superior badasses into protecting him when he couldn't protect himself. That last one alone makes him more interesting than half the personality-free members of Rick's crew.
17 hours ago, GreyBunny said:So much this. He has knowledge and skills that have been shown to be valuable: he helped feed them, get clean water, maintain their energy grid, and give them ammo so they could defend themselves - skills that are all vital in a post-apocalyptic world. Eugene's Big Lie actually saved Abraham's life. He was about to put a bullet in his own head when Eugene have him a reason to live. Yet they call him useless and coward because he's nervous and can't aim a gun very well. Fuck CDB. I hope Eugene becomes king of the Sanctuary.
I also credit Eugene with saving Glenn and Tara's lives. Back when Abe was sleeping in the back seat and Eugene purposefully mis-navigated Rosita so they'd end up at the end of the tunnel Glenn and Tara were going through. If they hadn't been there there would have been no cavalry w/ guns blazing to save Glenn and Tara from their predicament. And Maggie might have passed right on by - she couldn't have known Glenn was in there - had there not been a car there with three people in it to get her attention. If I recall correctly, Rosita was mad and asked Eugene why he led them back there and he said something to the effect of "because we still have to live with ourselves when this is all over".
Anyone who has survived this long must have some sort of skill. Eugene's happens to be subterfuge. I like Eugene. I like the funny way he talks and his awkwardness and his ability to admit he's no fearless hero. False bravado will get you killed in this world.
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I will be really surprised by anyone other than Abe (I don't think he was at the trough, though?) or Glenn.
Huh. I thought all of the men were taken out of the boxcar and brought to the slaughter room but now I am not sure.
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Nashville wrote:
Ok, let's see what I can guess up regarding the Champ of the Apocalypse:
Negan wants productive workers who are docile, or at least controllable; strong enough to work, but no strong enough to give him problems.
This immediately lets family members off the hook (Glenn/Maggie, and Rick/Carl - maybe Rick/Carl/Michonne even, depending upon how observant Negan is). By leaving families intact for the present, Negan always has leverage to maintain control over any one of them by threatening their loved one(s).
Probably lets Aaron, Rosita, Sasha and Eugene off the hook as well. All three came across as nonconfrontational - especially Eugene - and all appear strong enough to work without appearing strong enough to cause any immediate problems.
Which leaves us:
Daryl: wounded enough at present not to kick up much of a fuss, but will heal up eventually.Abraham: strong as an ox, and just did his level best to stare down this Negan motherdicker....
Any guesses who my money's on...?Totally agree. Negan is obviously a pro at using fear to control people. My initial gut reaction to Glen making a scene over Maggie was NO NO NO don't show your cards like that .... But I think it actually benefited him and Maggie as they are now safe for the above reason.
From a tactical standpoint taking out the biggest physical threat first is wise but beating a woman (especially a pregnant one or a young tiny looking thing like Rosita) or child to death would I think have maximum psychological impact on the survivors because it is just so totally taboo. You want to display just how deranged and heartless you are, that you will do absolutely anything to keep your subjects under control, that's one way to do it. But I don't think he did.
My money is on Abe, too. I will be completely shocked if it turns out to be anyone else. He's the biggest physical threat, he said his goodbyes to Eugene, and he was planning a future with Sasha. The show built up his character this season making him more than just a cartoon spouting one-liners, and they gave him hope, so yeah I think of course they are going to kill him off.
I've read comments that's Abe death wouldn't have much impact because he doesn't have strong enough ties to any of the other characters, that's he's little more than a glorified red-shirt. But I disagree. Abe's been around since just after the fall of the prison, he went through the horror at the trough at Terminus with the other men in the group, he's saved Glen's life at least three times that I remember, he saved Eugene, he's saved Michonne and Carl & Judith, and he has/had a romantic tie to two other characters. He may not be one of the Atlanta Five but he's still a core member of the family at this point so I think his death will be traumatic for the other characters and the audience.
Also, Abe's story started out with him beating several men to death so dying the same way sort of fits with Morgan's "everything comes full circle".
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Ok, let's see what I can guess up regarding the Champ of the Apocalypse:
- Negan wants productive workers who are docile, or at least controllable; strong enough to work, but no strong enough to give him problems.
- This immediately lets family members off the hook (Glenn/Maggie, and Rick/Carl - maybe Rick/Carl/Michonne even, depending upon how observant Negan is). By leaving families intact for the present, Negan always has leverage to maintain control over any one of them by threatening their loved one(s).
- Probably lets Aaron, Rosita, Sasha and Eugene off the hook as well. All three came across as nonconfrontational - especially Eugene - and all appear strong enough to work without appearing strong enough to cause any immediate problems.
Which leaves us:
- Daryl: wounded enough at present not to kick up much of a fuss, but will heal up eventually.
- Abraham: strong as an ox, and just did his level best to stare down this Negan motherdicker....
Any guesses who my money's on...?
Taking a response over to the new thread TWD Season 7 Anticipation - Evil Cliffhanger from Hell
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Michael Cudlitz was in a way most impressive though, because Abraham is behind the wheel virtually the whole time and kind of has to visually exposit every time he sees something else first - he stays level but you can see something much more internal in his performance than the overt change in the others. You can see some kind of tremendous apprehension rising in Abraham while he remains focused.
Yes. Also he was a sitting duck up there in front with the big glass windshield, I was really worried he was going to get shot up and not even make it to the cliffhanger.
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This made me laugh. Completely agree, both about the silliness and how these two look when they run. I've thought for a while now that Andrew Lincoln looks his absolute hottest when he's running frantically.
I just read somewhere recently (might of been in Rob Lowe's book) that no man looks good running on camera. Except Tom Cruise who seems to know it and runs in like, all of his movies, LOL. I tend to agree. No matter how much of a tough guy an actor is playing, they all look goofy running.
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Manoman, the sexual tension when they were relaxing on the couch was palpable.
It totally reminded me of an exhausted Carol & Daryl plopping down on the same bunk together in the womens shelter in Atlanta. Two people so 100% comfortable with each other that they can do that without it being awkward. I didn't really see any sexual tension in either case, just a really close bond that could organically go to a physical place.
Absolutely loved Rick & Daryl's road trip adventure, from putting in the CD to Daryl breaking off a piece of that KitKat bar to Rick purposefully jostling the unconscious Jesus into him and grinning in the mirror. And Daryl's "he's on the roof isn't he?". LOL. Perfect. Just two pals having a 'could it get any worse?' kind of day.
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I thought she was casting glances at his gun and sort of wondering if she could get away from him. No sexual tension at all. The Wolf, being totally nuts, seemed to be relishing the idea of turning her into another Wolf, especially considering most of his friends were deaded. ... I thought she showed smarts by saying she could save his life, because I'm pretty sure Denise knew there was no f'ing way that was true, but she could use him to get back to her home base. He was toast anyway, so it wasn't a huge risk to bring him back.
For a moment, when she stopped shaking so much and was giving him those surreptitious glances, I thought for sure she was pulling a Carol and was only faking it, waiting for a moment she could knock the gun away from him. As it is, I think she's a lot like Eugene in that she used brains rather than brawn to help herself. Except Eugene picked a good guy to trick into protecting himself, whereas Denise used a bad guy. Which is even smarter, getting the bad guy to help you.
As for how illogical it can get. Come on!!! We're talking about zombies!! The literal Walking Dead. You can't get any more illogical than that! Which makes it very easy for me to just take everything with a grain of salt. Would I like the show better written, sure, see my mention of being distracted while watching it, but it's damn fun when they pull out all the stops like they did with this past episode and that's mainly why I watch.
Ditto! It's dark but pretty damn fun. If I wanted logic and realism I'd be watching science documentaries. I really didn't even notice the day-to-night so many have issue with as in my mind, I thought is was already quite late in the day and getting dark when the last episode left off. The only thing that actually made me go Huh? and took me out of the moment for a moment was when Tara & Rosita said something about "let's go get Carol" and then poof, they were right there in the same room with Carol and Morgan waking up. I had thought that they were in a completely different building and was wondering how they knew where she was at and how they got there so fast. But I did have a lot of distractions going on during this episode and was not able to watch the rerun of the previous episode first to refresh my memory so I'm sure I missed or have forgotten something.
I've never been a Rick Grimes fan-girl but darn, he looked good out there with the 5 o'clock shadow and hair plastered to his face.
Thrilled to death that Gabriel and Eugene both got their game on! I've been swimming against the tide in liking both of them since their first appearances. Eugene's comment about wanting to be part of the story that will be told echoes Troy for me:
Odysseus: [voiceover] Men are haunted by the vastness of eternity. And so we ask ourselves: will our actions echo across the centuries? Will strangers hear our names long after we are gone, and wonder who we were, how bravely we fought, how fiercely we loved?
Odysseus: [voiceover] If they ever tell my story let them say that I walked with giants. Men rise and fall like the winter wheat, but these names will never die. Let them say I lived in the time of Hector, tamer of horses. Let them say I lived in the time of Achilles.
Thetis: If you stay in Larissa, you will find peace. You will find a wonderful woman, and you will have sons and daughters, who will have children. And they'll all love you and remember your name. But when your children are dead, and their children after them, your name will be forgotten... If you go to Troy, glory will be yours. They will write stories about your victories in thousands of years! And the world will remember your name. But if you go to Troy, you will never come back... for your glory walks hand-in-hand with your doom.
I believe that Michonne now joins Carol as the only survivor to have killed a child. Rightfully so, she was protecting her people in killing Ron and we seem to unanimously condone what she did, but I can't help but wonder, what if it had been Carol?
I can't help but feel that if it had been Carol it would not have been acceptable - there would have been an outcry over what a cold bitch Carol is and why couldn't she just have knocked him out or something instead .... But, it was Michonne and we seem to love her even more for it.
I don't think Carol is at all responsible for Sam's behavior & death. She told him a scary story about monsters outside the gate that would eat him alive and guess what ... there really are monsters outside the gate that will eat you alive. If anything, his foreknowledge from Carol should have steeled him into behaving and doing as he was told. Suck it up Buttercup or die. He didn't and he did.
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The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg.
No. The fruit hippies are long dead. The girl got eaten by a zombie in the same episode where we met her. Her boyfriend, Sam, was killed at Terminus. He was the blonde guy who was first to get the baseball bat to the back of the head at the trough.
Rick and Carol ran into the "fruit hippies" the day Rick banished Carol, just before everything went to hell at the prison and everyone got split up before reuniting at Terminus. We don't know the timeline of Morgan's history, all we know is that everything we were shown last night took place sometime between Rick/Michonne/Carl running into him in "Clear" and him ending up at Alexandria. So it could have been Sam & Anna before Rick & Carol met them, but you're right - Sam was blonde and the guy last night had dark curly hair so it wasn't them. Darn. Would have been a neat little touch.
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The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg.
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My first exposure to him was on The Drew Carey Show, where he played Drew's cross-dressing brother. He was a nice guy there :)
He played Norm Gunderson in Fargo. He was Marge's husband who was hoping to get a stamp design approved by the USPS. He got the 2 cent stamp.
Ahhh! He looked familiar but he has such a generic look I didn't spend any time trying to figure out where I might have seen him before, as it could have been in anything.
I too thought the twist would be that the Cheesemaker (did we ever get his real name?) would turn out to be that Clayton Wallace Whoever, though I'm not sure what plot-point that would have served. Although having a psychotic killer do a 360 and decide all life is precious and take on a new nice-guy persona would actually have made more sense to me then the story we were given. It would have given support to the idea that there is hope for even the worst among us, even the wolf at the end, and thus don't kill anyone.
I somehow missed all the turtle references (except for of course Enid eating the one). Is this supposed to be symbolic? If anyone has retreated into a hard shell to survive, it's Carol. Soft on the inside, hard on the outside.
Was not a fan of all the here's not here stuff or of the episode itself. It should have been titled Redirect. The redirect of Morgan's character, and of the show itself, going from the first heart-pounding episodes .. to this.
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I did ask this morning about Daryl's "free-ride" and I've seen a few theories but nothing definitive because this is TWD and the writers never put anything in stone, or make anything comprehensible. If it weren't for Rick (now) being trapped, I'd say that both he and Daryl acted irresponsibly. Except I wouldn't know because I never really knew what the master plan was. But I do know, from last night, that they are to go 20 miles
. Now what the hell was Daryl up to? May be the same thing? But then changed his mind? But he heard gunshots on the walkie-talkie and somehow he knew/thought is was Rick
Daryl's job & actions confused the hell out of me, too.
I get that he and Abe & Sasha were supposed to lead the herd at least 20 miles out from town before coming back. But why was Daryl on a bike needed for that? Was he supposed to be going ahead of them to act as a scout? Did they need a human scent out in the open for the walkers to follow?
I missed a lot of dialog this episode but here's the sequence I recall and my take on it:
Shit hits the fan, Rick tells Glen & Michonne to run home as fast as they can, leave the Alexandrians if they have to. Via walkie-talkie he tells Daryl what's up but tells Daryl NOT to go home, stay with he mission to lead the walkers away. Daryl considers and decides F-this, I'm going "home" to help with whatever is happening there. Sasha gets pissed at him for deciding to go. (Why? See above. Why did they need him along with the car anyway?). He's on his way back to Alexandria when something makes him stop and raise Rick on the walkie-talkie, wherein he hears gunfire over it and no more Rick, thus realizing Rick is in trouble. So he turns around and goes ASAP to find Rick, his brother ya' know. But then we see him at the crossroads running back into Sasha & Abe in the car with the herd behind them, and it seems in the closing shots he had fallen back in place alongside them slowly leading the walkers again, rather than quickly telling them Rick was in trouble and he was off to find him.
Did he mean to get back to Abe & Sasha and the herd or did he mean to go find/help/save Rick? Was it coincidence he ran into Abe & Sasha and the herd at the crossroads? Did that change his mind about what he wanted to do? Did he hear Rick trying to raise Glen on the walkie-talkie with no answer, then heard Rick and the gunshots, realized that Glen and Rick both might now be dead, and thus decided to carry out Rick's plan re relocating the herd because ..... ? I'm Thoroughly confused.
And I know Daryl needing shampoo and a shower has been a running joke for a long time and I have always shrugged it off, but it's outt'a hand now. He's never looked as filthy and disgusting as he did in this episode. Yeah I get it, he's the gritty bad boy who doesn't give two F's about his looks or hygiene and it IS the apocolyspe, but c'mon Show, there is such a thing as too much, get your male lead cleaned the hell up!
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S06.E02: JSS
in S06
I agree, that is why Dale didn't want her to have a gun. Still, it was her gun and as much as I couldn't stand Andrea, Dale's interfering was equally as annoying. As far as Shane, I think he just wanted to make sure everyone who didn't have experience with a gun learned the proper way to use one before they walked around packing heat all day. Shane, Rick, Daryl - they all had experience with guns. Andrea, IIRC, had been given that gun before the trip, but had never really used it. Jimmy, also, had little to no experience, and Shane also insisted that HE attend "classes" before going out with a gun. I didn't really see anything sexist about it. IMO, Andrea ended up being quite capable, but her major downfall was her constant desire to always prove herself. Daryl got shot because she wanted to prove she was just as good as the guys.
The writing for female characters and inherent misogyny even in male characters we were supposed to see as good guys were so off the charts terrible in the first two seasons that I can't hold much against the women who came out of them.
In the same episode Sophia disappeared and Lori held Carol back from doing anything (Because lets face it, at that point she didn't even know how to use a gun and probably didn't have the foggiest idea how to track.), we got to watch Shane and Dale talk down to Andrea like an errant child for having the audacity to want to be armed to protect herself. This is the season that grown adult Andrea was initially deemed less competent to carry than the male child who never stayed where he was supposed to. Save Andrea's one trip out with Shane that resulted in unfortunate car sex, none of the women ever participated in any search effort beyond one useless trek through the woods with Daryl as an impatient minder. They spent the rest of the time bickering about laundry. Glenn openly speculated about the various women being on their periods for behaving what he considered irrationally. No one came out looking well.
IIRC, when the show started we only had three female characters of any note - Lori, Carol, and Andrea. Lori and Carol were married housewives, used to and accepting of traditional gender roles. Andrea on the other hand was a single career woman. It's understandable to me then that she was not willing to stand by as a 'little woman while the men did all the heavy lifting so to speak, as Lori and Carol did. Centuries of tradition and gender stereotyping don't immediately fall away just because it's the apocalypse. It takes time for the women to realize their strengths and break from expectations just as it takes time for the men to realize and accept it. As a woman in such situation you DO have to prove yourself, and you have to be pushy just to get the opportunities to do so. If you're not actively fighting for an equal place at the table you're not going to get it.
It's telling that on one hand there is all this contempt for Lori and Carol for not doing enough while at the same time there is much hate for Andrea for trying to do more. Just as in real life, it's a catch-22 for women. Scorned for sticking to old fashioned gender roles, or disliked and viewed as bitchy, pushy, & out-of-line for trying to rise above.
I liked Andrea right up until, as Michonne said, she gave up their friendship for a warm bed. I liked her wanting to learn to shoot, I liked her wanting to do guard duty instead of housework, I liked her going with the men on the truck to collect & dispose of the bodies, I loved her telling off Lori, I liked her no-nonsense approach to dealing with suicidal Beth (Current-day Carol would have handled it the same way - he beat you he's dead get over it), I liked that she was always trying to prove herself, and I appreciate the catch-22 her non-traditional behavior put her in with both the men and the women. Andrea was like a pioneer of the post-apocalyptic womens' rights movement. ;)
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I see characters often being called a "Mary Sue" character. Can someone please explain what exactly that means and where it originated from? Thanks.
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S06.E02: JSS
in S06
I was disappointed with last week's episode (after the season opener that featured the horror of Terminus and the ensuing escape I have high expectations for premieres) but last night's episode rocked. It should have been the opener but I understand they had to set things up to explain why most of CDB was not there.
I too thought at first that Carol was entering into Crazy Town and hallucinating (or fantasizing) when we saw Smoking Lady get slaughtered. Wow! I am totally not a fan of the horror genre but that was just genius. To do something like that, in broad daylight, after showing Susy Homemaker making a dish and checking the baby monitor, with no ominous music to prepare us... totally unexpected and surreal. Which made it downright terrifying. Likewise, something about the scene with the wolf chasing Ron was seriously frightening. I don't have a DVR so will have to wait for an opportunity to re-watch on TV but it seemed to me that for a moment before Ron took off running from behind the tree, everything was still and there was not even any audio. Game set match. I sure won't mind if Ron dies but darn that shot had impact.
The opening scenes of Enid's backstory - all I could think was darn, what a little Dixon. Surely she is Daryl & Merle's long-lost little sister.
I never understood all the Morgan-love for a character we only saw twice before they brought him back in bits and pieces last season but I am definitely not liking him now. I too thought he was going to be shot by the girl Carol left to guard the armory and then would have to be treated by the not-really-a-doctor-doctor. I am wondering if the gun Carol gave him is what is in the bag he had with him on his apparent exit from Alexandria.
I know Deanne is supposed to be all stressed and grieving but what is up with her look? They had her looking like death twice over, all drawn and sunken and skeletal in the face. Ack.
Jesse using little hair-cutting scissors to dispatch the She-Wolf made me laugh out loud. Beth anyone? It's not the weapon it's the attitude & context.
I was very happy Carol did not smoke the cigarette at the end.
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S06.E02: JSS
in S06
Quite a few of the wolves were women. I thought that a point was being made by that, they weren't just a marauding gang, like Randall or Joe's people but that they were a community of some sort, maybe they have a fixed base, maybe they move about a territory. Calling themselves Wolves has a suggestion of a nomadic lifestyle to me.
The first She-Wolf I remember seeing was the one who Jesse encountered. And it hit me like the proverbial ton of bricks that unlike her male counterparts who were out not just to kill but to to over-kill in the most grisly way possible, she did not attempt to kill Jesse and make mincemeat out of her, she was satisfied to leave her just unconscious (though I am sure Jesse was faking it). Then I think Carol tangoed with a She-Wolf, the second and only other one I noticed. And it seemed to me that unlike their male counter parts both were unarmed? Does that say something about the Wolfpack's ethos? or about women in general? or about this viewer not noticing everything? (Maybe they were armed and I just didn't notice their weapon?)
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S06.E02: JSS
in S06
I don't buy Carl being dumb enough to nearly get suckered by that guy whining about the pain in his leg. I think he'd have just put one in his head.
I actually do as Carl is used to killing zombies. Also this guy was injured and looking for help - remember back during the 1st governor's attack one of his soldiers, a teen, tried to surrender to Carl and Carl shot him. Rick and Herschel lectured Carl on how bad that was.
Carl will not make this mistake again.
This was my thought as well. Unless I'm misremembering, the last living person Carl killed was the kid at the prison all the way back in season 3. He lost his gun over that and had to spend a full half season playing farmer with Rick at Herschel's urging. That probably left quite the impression on him.
Plus I'm also willing to buy that the very thing he was worried about when they first got to the ASZ, that returning to relative civilization would make them soft, may be coming into play. Seemingly 15 minutes before he was out peacefully pushing his kid sister in the stroller.
I was really taken aback at first that Carl didn't shoot him immediately. I had even told my husband after last weeks preview that my money is on Carl - noone is getting in that house or anywhere near the baby with Carl on the job! Hesitating and possibly sympathetic didn't seem like the Carl I've come to know/expect. However, after the re-watch, I think it was because of Enid.
They had just had their little chat in the house, with him saying something like '"they all have to die" and Enid was all "Why? they are just people". When he was facing off with the wounded wolf on the ground, Carl took his eyes off him momentarily to glance at Enid (which is what enabled the guy to get a hold of him). Then of course he had no choice, it was an up close & personal life or death situation. I think he had temporarily let his guard down because of Enid in the same way Daryl did back at the mortuary house because of Beth. They were both letting someone else's rose-colored glasses temper their natural tendencies.
It makes me think of Rick wanting to shoot Jesse's husband but not doing so until Deanne gave him permission. Which in turn makes me think of Willard in Footloose not beating the crap out of the guys outside the dance until his gal Rusty gave him permission. Not sure where I am going with this other than it all seems to tie together. Whether it's for political or strategic or romantic reasons, a man's innate instinct is often tempered by a woman.
So I think yeah, it was because of Enid that Carl didn't blow the guy away right off.
Unless I'm misremembering, the last living person Carl killed was the kid at the prison all the way back in season 3.
He shot Morgan, too. Morgan didn't end up dying but Carl was shooting to kill when he shot him. I wonder if Morgan knows that?
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I feel that most viewers were missing the importance of Aaron being with Daryl as they were saved with Morgan on that run.
Aaron was willing to die with Daryl, and he read the note about the Wolves.
Count me in with "most viewers" then as I don't get what you're getting at here?
When they were talking in the car I felt strongly that Aaron really, almost desperately, wants to be a part of the family. The family doesn't bail on each other so he wasn't going to bail on Daryl. Welcome to Team Rick, Aaron, you just got your admission slip stamped.
Later when Maggie was speaking at the meeting, she said they (the Alexandrians) want to be like them (CDB). I wish I had her exact words as I thought she was spot-on. It was supposed to be this group (CDB) being taken in and assimilating to the ASZ ways. Deanne even said "they are all one of us now" after the Glen/Nicholas dust-up. But the fact is, it's the Alexandrians who want to join CDB, not the other way around.
I really like the connection between Aaron and Daryl. Ross Marquand is doing a fantastic job. To come on to a well-established show and be paired in most of your scenes with one of its most popular characters, that has to be very challenging, but I think he is really holding his own and is selling the chemistry between the two (and I mean that in a purely platonic way). Contrast that to Alexandra Breckenridge faced with the same challenge and well, I think Marquand is succeeding whereas Breckenridge is not.
*Edited to insert the actors' names for better clarity. It originally looked as below.
I really like the connection between Aaron and Daryl. The actor playing Aaron is doing a fantastic job. To come on to a well-established show and be paired in most of your scenes with one of its most popular characters, that has to be very challenging, but I think he is really holding his own and is selling the chemistry between the two (and I mean that in a purely platonic way). Contrast that to the actress playing Jessie faced with the same challenge and well, I think "Aaron" is succeeding whereas "Jessie" is not.-
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I like the idea of an "anything goes" thread. Like the Wild West of TWD forum. Is that crazy? I'd like to talk about the episode in all its connotations.
That makes the most sense of all to me. In real life I am a big believer in "a place for everything and everything in its place" and am a bit obsessive with organizing & categorizing stuff. But in this regard I think too much categorization would be a headache for readers, posters and the Mods. I feel people might become afraid to post for fear of saying the wrong thing in the wrong place and getting in trouble with other readers or the Mods. One dumping-grounds thread where people can talk about the comics and the show and spoilers & speculations based on both is a good idea. Then people can post freely without worrying about being in the wrong place or whether they need a spoiler tag, and readers who don't want to be spoiled or speculated know to avoid that thread.
Just my other two cents, I don't really care except for the fact that I really like how active this forum is and would hate to see it quieted by confusion.
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Okay! The reason I pinned my post to your Jessie post. Is because so much of that Jessie talk was being pushed by key posters who were discussing the same topic in the comics thread. In other words they knew the truth about most of the ASZ storyline, but were posting as if the characters were acting out of character or if something was not happening to a character when they clearly knew it was.
Now this has been happening ever since the forums started. But it has reached a level of farce. So we do not need a TV vs. Comics thread. We need a thread where you can discuss an individual episode within the world of the comics. The TV show is not the comics, they are the same in most of the characters and the general plots. But there is enough of a difference to bring suspense to each episode.
But in reality, the whole what is the ASZ, are the people evil, why is Rick looking a some bland blonde. These things may be great discussion for those who are clearly in the dark. But when you mix that discussion with people who know better, the posts and subjects take on a great deal of disingenuous.
Not knowing and having legitimate questions about what has happen and what will happen is good. For people who truly are operating from the dark. However how can you enjoy a thread when certain people are pushing or pounding hard on a theory that is just never going to happen. And some of those who know this are egging them on.
What we need is an episode thread for each new episode where everything goes. It needs to be clearly labeled so. We will discuss the episode, what happen, but not act like we did know it was not going to happen. We will not talk about the characters as if we did not know why he was making eyes and kissing the blonde on the cheeks.
I don't understand the bolded contradiction there. Either the comics are different enough from the show that people who have read them can still be surprised by the show, or they are so much the same that people who have read the comics know for certain what is or isn't going to happen.
The way I see it, in addition to the episode threads (no spoilers, no comic talk), we already have
The Comics: Same, Yet Different
Watch Duty: Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation
Speculation Without Spoilers
"The Comics: Same Yet Different" seems to be there to serve exactly the purpose being requested - to talk abut the comics vrs the show. So I don't see the purpose in adding yet another section that would just further complicate things as far as where people should post what. If things get too confusing people will just stop posting.
(FWIW, I don't read the comics and have no interest in doing so, and I don't like being spoiled, so I stick to the Episode threads and the Survivor threads.)
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S05.E15: Try
in S05
The reality is that this is a typical TV Trope. Blonde woman, Abusive alcoholic husband, Main male interested in blonde, etc. One of you mentioned last week having that trope be flipped - that Pete is being abused by sweet Jessie, and drinks to cope. That would break the mold, which would be different.
Since there are no signs of physical abuse on Jessie I was buying into that theory, Hoped the show was just giving us white herrings to make us think Jessie is the victim, leading up to a big reveal in the finale that WHOA, everyone (characters and viewers alike) is wrong, Jessie is the bad guy here. That would have been great and could have led to all kinds of new angst for Rick & Carol - doubting their own instincts, remembering to trust noone, feeling foolish for having been played .... But I think this episode pretty much cemented that no, it is indeed Jessie as victim, proceed with trope. And that's a shame because if this board is any indication of overall viewership, the vast majority are finding this story line ridiculous. Not good for a show that touts itself as the #1 show on television.
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S05.E15: Try
in S05
Thus why she spoke right up when Pete entered and she told him to leave. Because Rick was standing right there! She could have told Rick to leave instead and given the husband some bullshit story about why Rick was there and then taken some time to think things over and come up with a plan. But no, instead of defusing the situation she lit the fuse by trying to give Pete the boot right then, in front of Rick, knowing full well it would erupt into an opportunity for Rick to kill Pete.
I didn't see it nearly as sinister as what you're suggesting. If Pete beats her regularly over what I'm guessing are minor things, how do you think he's going to handle her telling him to get out? It seems like she made the smart call to ask him to leave while she had someone there to protect her just in case things got violent.
Pete didn't know Jessie and Rick had already been alone together in the garage. When Pete showed up on the stairs, Jessie and Rick weren't even standing very close together, IIRC. When Pete appeared, Jessie could have said something like "Hi Hon, Is Carl upstairs with Ron? Rick is here looking for him." Everyone proceeds with awkward small talk for a moment, Rick leaves. Crisis averted. Now Jessie has time (an hour - a day - anything longer than the blink-of-an-eye she actually decided in) to think things over and come up with a plan. Like, the next time Pete is passed out, just leave. Don't make a scene, don't give him any warning, just be gone when he gets up.
Instead, as soon as Pete appeared Jessie says "No, Pete". No what? Now all Pete's danders are up and we've got a situation. And then she tells Pete to leave. That really galled me. If Jessie chose to leave, Pete had two options .. let her or physically stop her. Physically preventing her from leaving would be all kinds of wrong (unlawful restraint ... assault) thus Jesssie and anyone else would have the right to use whatever force necessary against him. It's all on Pete if it gets ugly.
Ordering Pete to leave instead, that opens up a big ol' can of ugly from the get go. You know Pete is not going to leave voluntarily which means someone is going to have to physically make him. In this case Rick because he was the one there. And Rick (or any other man) being there makes it oh so much worse because now, to Pete, its not just about his wife defying him, it's also about losing face in front of another male. Which gaurantees he is not going to leave willingly and its going to get physical.
Ordering Pete to leave instead of just leaving herself was all kinds of stupid. Either she's too stupid for words or she wanted it to get physical knowing Rick had designs on killing him.
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S05.E15: Try
in S05
I liked Sam running to Carol and clinging to her during the fight but I was surprised that he did not go to his mother even after she was knocked back by Pete.
When everyone came running when Glen and Aidan got into their dust-up, Daryl held Nicholas down and wanted to beat on him but Rick pulled him off and made him stand-down. Daryl was ticked but he and Rick were OK with each other again that evening,
Michonne stood over Aidan, daring him to get back up. Then this ep ended with her standing over Rick, with that "I f'ing dare anybody to do anything" look in her eyes. I thought her stance over Rick was protective, He's our problem and we take care of of own; you all aren't going to touch him. Part of Rick's rant was saying that "we know what to do and we just do it". Michonne knew what needed to be done and did it. I think Rick will understand when he comes to.
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S07.E16: The First Day of the Rest of Your Life
in S07
I thought she was signaling for backup with the flare so was fully expecting the Oceanside Amazons to appear. In all honesty though, the entire battle confused me. Especially the part with Daryl et al rushing towards a gate with what seemed like intent to do some big plan but then they couldn't open it so Daryl climbs on top of something (a truck?) and just stands there a totally unprotected target for why? I seriously think there had to have been much more filmed but the parts that would have made the battle easier to follow were left on the c utting room floor because some editor thought the scenes with Abe & Sasha were more important.
I recall a raid on that compound where they killed everyone as they slept, the roadside bunch Daryl sent to oblivion with the rocket launcher, and the ones Carol and Maggie killed & burnt up. What were the other two that made 5? I can't even remember what triggered the initial, uh, animosity between Team Rick and the Saviors.
I am really surprised people noticed that. Unless they are showing me a tiger or a throne or Gregory at his desk, I have a very hard time telling what neighborhood we're in and I pretty much don't even care as it seems that nowadays the people are often going and coming from one place to the other.
I never questioned it because a last-minute reprieve-by-tiger was just damn good fun, totally willing to fan-wink that. :)
Also - who is this Jerry I see mentioned several times here in the comments?