S06.E01: Sanctum

[CooperTV]

SEASON PREMIERE – Still reeling after receiving Monty’s message, a small group goes down to explore the mysterious new planet. Back on the Mothership, several members of Wonkru face the consequences of their decisions.

Original airdate 4/30/2019

Edited April 13, 2019 by CooperTV

[UNOSEZ]

Seriously... They killed another black guy.. And continue to make raven miserable... And Abby is still a pain in my ass... Smh... That said I'm ecstatic that this show is back

[quarks]

After five straight seasons of multiple betrayals and murders, it's kinda comforting to see that Bellamy, Clarke and the gang still feel comfortable leaving their spaceship alone and unguarded.

Also kinda comforting to see that the tradition of trying to knife Murphy every season remains!

[Lady Calypso]

15 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Seriously... They killed another black guy.. And continue to make raven miserable... And Abby is still a pain in my ass... Smh... That said I'm ecstatic that this show is back

I believe I read that they killed Shaw because the actor got another gig and wouldn't be able to do this show anymore. And it wouldn't make much sense to keep him in cryo since he has a specific set of skills. They probably could have done what they did with Kane, but maybe they thought it would be too repetitive or maybe Shaw's actor decided to not return. 

But yeah, giving Raven more angst is just tiresome at this point. Now, she's probably going to blame Clarke, just like everyone else has been doing all episode. Speaking of Raven, her hair down is new for her. But now it's going to be harder to tell most of the main women apart in some scenes.

Seriously, Clarke and Murphy are my two favourites, so seeing them at odds and seeing Murphy be a complete ass once more is frustrating to watch. Clarke's done a lot of wrong things, but so have all of them. None of them have any moral high ground, at this point. 

The reveal of their new planet was decently done. I did like seeing parallels to season 1. But yeah, of course they left their ship unguarded, even though they had no idea if there were humans/aliens there or not. 

Jordan is pretty cool, with the little we got to see of him. I look forward to more of him. 

I guess not much has changed with Octavia being an awful human being. I'm still rooting for her death, it seems. I also am still peeved by Abby, who has a lot of making up to do. 

As for the ending, goddamn, Emori. I know you're frustrated with Murphy being a dick, but you don't have to stab him to make your point! Poor guy was shot several times and now stabbed all in a span of....125 years. 

[tennisgurl]

This show really is the ultimate out of the frying pan and into the fire situation. Its like every time everyone manages to get out of one god awful situation, they just find themselves in another. Stasis is probably as good as these people have had it. 

good to see that no matter what planet they end up on, Murphy is still gonna get his ass kicked. Some things never change. 

[UNOSEZ]

33 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I believe I read that they killed Shaw because the actor got another gig and wouldn't be able to do this show anymore.

Well that softens it a bit... But I still haven't totally  forgiven the show for Wells' death which was triple egregious because he got killed so quick.. Got killed by some rando lil girl ( who Clarke and Finn then tried to save... Not how I'd handle the person who murdered my best friend in cold blood)  and it forced Finn/Clarke on us... And the network as a whole has a spotty record especially with younger blk actors... So i guess I'm just raw

[ParadoxLost]

The tough thing about a year between seasons is that I can't really remember the specifics of all the betrayals and conflicts from last season.

I generally remember that everyone acts as it serves plot and most of the bad/good choices had more to do with random chance on where they ended up during the time jump versus an inherent strength or lack of character.

Clarke was full on Mother hen and was willing to do anything to protect Madi.  Bellamy was willing to betray Clarke re: Madi.  And everyone from the arc was lets live in peace.  Octavia was a power hungry cannibal.  Abby a drug addicted cannibal who couldn't cope.   Etc.

So the piling on Clarke sat wrong with me.  Mostly because it came from a bunch of people who spent their time in less challenging circumstances than everyone else.  And she wasn't the only one needing s+ome forgiveness.

I cant recall what Clarke actually did to them.  I do remember that Bellamy set her off by deciding to risk Madi in a desperate bid to save Octavia from her self (in some way that I also can't remember).  

A year ago I predicted becoming annoyed with trotting out Monti dying to give them this second chance.  One episode in and I'm already there.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, thanks to these long waits between seasons, it really is hard to remember why everyone is mad at everyone else.  I honestly totally forgot all about the issues between Abbie and Raven, and was wondering why was Raven so pissed (granted, she really wasn't in a foul mood throughout the entire episode.) 

Granted, it would probably be easier to list all the times someone actually isn't pissed at Clarke, because there always seems to be someone hating her ass.  I know she is far from perfect, but I'm kind of feeling bad for her.  She is one of the few that actually tries to be a leader and make the hard choices, and even when she fucks it up, I feel like she really believes she is doing the right thing.  I'll take that over Octavia, who I know likes to claim the same thing, but I still think she really cares more about her own status and power.

Well, I guess it was nice knowing you, Shaw!  If it was because the actor found another gig, it makes sense, but I'm not looking forward to how this is probably going to make Raven even more of a downer and whatnot.

Oh, Murphy!  You get stabbed, beat-up, and punched so many times that you're eventually going to get use to it.  Hell, next episode will probably open with him treating his new knife wound like it's just a scratch.

The new planet is cool.  I'm sure they're still shooting in Canada and whatnot, but they've done a real good job with making the scenery look gorgeous in an non-Earthly way.

Hope we get more Echo soon, since she's become one of my favorites.

Looks like only Shannon Kook/Jordan got updated to the credits.  Kind of wishing Luisa d'Oliveria/Emori would get there eventually, but who knows what the character's fate will be after the ending?  Granted on this show, being in the credits does not make you safe (I still remember you, Finn!  And Lincoln!  And Jaha..)

[quarks]

8 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

So the piling on Clarke sat wrong with me.  Mostly because it came from a bunch of people who spent their time in less challenging circumstances than everyone else.  And she wasn't the only one needing s+ome forgiveness.

Yeah, this. Clarke's hardly a saint, but she's also hardly the worst of this group. And she also directly saved the lives of everyone in that group except for Shaw - more than once.

I did like that she pointed out that Murphy had also gotten multiple chances, and that Echo (who helped destroy the Mount Weather bunker, which would have allowed more people to survive PrimaWhatever, greatly shifting the balance of power last season) spoke up in her defense, and Bellamy (who if memory serves helped massacre people in the second and third seasons) was sorta vaguely supportive.

And as for Octavia - geesh, girl. You arrive on a brand new planet (or moon), and your first step is to start screaming at Kane and goading him into a heart attack/seizure, instead of - I dunno - at least trying to assess the overall situation? Or going, ooh, look, moon! Maybe save the shouting for a bit?

[UNOSEZ]

I'm good with octavia reading Kane the riot act he betrayed his ppl for a pipe dream that sounded bogus the minute I heard it.. He kept asking why there had to be war as if the criminals who came down to the earth didn't start with wonkru... Bunker stuff is bunker stuff and I guess everyone is kinda culpable in varying degrees... But to me I sided with octavia on most of her decisions once they got up top... Well maybe sided is too strong... They made sense... Plus I've never really liked Kane and I can't stand Abby( who let a teenager take the wrap in her daughter's eyes for spacing her own husband)  so I generally will take the side of whoever is opposing them

[jay741982]

12 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Seriously... They killed another black guy.. And continue to make raven miserable... And Abby is still a pain in my ass... Smh... That said I'm ecstatic that this show is back

Rothberg even made a comment that makes him sound like a big Douchebag " Apparently the Universe just hates Raven and she cant be happy" Cause Obviously he continues to get Joy out of beating up on Raven. It's so old and tiring 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, jay741982 said:

Rothberg even made a comment that makes him sound like a big Douchebag " Apparently the Universe just hates Raven and she cant be happy" Cause Obviously he continues to get Joy out of beating up on Raven. It's so old and tiring 

Yeah, it does feel like he likes beating up on Raven....and Murphy as well. Those are his two favourite punching bags. I'd much rather see Raven rise from this loss and realise that she probably should focus on something other than boys. It does suck that the actor left the show, but they probably would have had better luck putting him in cryosleep for the season. 

I think everyone is morally compromised on this show. No one character is better than another, so I was annoyed at Raven trying to take the high ground, as if she hasn't made some shady choices herself (and Raven's my third favourite character, after Clarke and Murphy respectively). 

I'm done with Abby, at this point, and I'd be totally ok if Kane didn't end up surviving the season. Right now, he's simply frozen between life and death, so it could go either way for him once the actor is available to return to the show. I never liked any of the adults anyway, but Kane probably had the most growth out of all of them (did not like Jaha at all and Abby's just gotten worse).

As for Octavia, I'm come to the conclusion that I still don't like her, but at least she's interesting to watch. I still think she could have sacrificed herself last season and I would have been fine with it.

[Sakura12]

I saw the first 2 episodes weeks ago and they kind of blurred together so I can't say much without spoiling the second episode. But I do agree none of them have any kind of moral high ground to stand on, they've all done shady, terrible and selfish things. Clarke may have the highest body count which is why she's called the commander of death. She has also saved them multiple times as well. 

I still don't like Octavia. It seems she's still in the bunker when everyone else is out of it and wanting to move on. They should be allowed to, except for Abby she can go walk off a cliff. 

Its interesting that the people on that planet have a radiation barrier around their city. I wonder if they treat the black blood as special like the grounders did. Anyone who doesn't have it isn't allowed into the city. Which of course makes Clarke special again.

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Clarke may have the highest body count which is why she's called the commander of death. She has also saved them multiple times as well. 

At this point, I don't even know if Clarke has the highest body count. I mean, Octavia was responsible for hundreds of death with her Bunker Games (at least 400). Bellamy helped massacre, what, three hundred people in season 3? Like Octavia said here, Kane was also responsible for hundreds of death on the Ark. I have no idea how many people Clarke's helped to kill. I'm sure it is probably in the high hundreds, but the point is more that everyone else has basically killed hundreds of people too.

The main character with the lowest body count is probably Raven or Murphy (Murphy, of all people!). But yes, Clarke has also saved them multiple times. So essentially, people like Raven and Murphy need to stuff it with their hatred of Clarke. That's why I was glad Clarke told Murphy off by reminding him that he's done bad stuff too. 

12 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I still don't like Octavia. It seems she's still in the bunker when everyone else is out of it and wanting to move on. They should be allowed to, except for Abby she can go walk off a cliff. 

I mean, I guess to be fair, this was Octavia's mindset even during the season 5 finale and for her, no time has passed since then. So her actions in this episode still make perfect sense. Girl needs to get off of her power trip if she ever wants to be redeemed. That's why I was partially agreeing with Kane; her issue wasn't necessarily the cannibalism. It was the humongous power trip she went on from very early on Praimfaya. 

15 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

 Its interesting that the people on that planet have a radiation barrier around their city. I wonder if they treat the black blood as special like the grounders did. Anyone who doesn't have it isn't allowed into the city. Which of course makes Clarke special again.

With the radiation barrier, it does seem like there'll be a mix of Nightbloods and non-Nightbloods, and it does seem like the Nightbloods are Royalty. So yeah, Super Special Clarke will be crowned Royalty. 

Just once, I would like to have another main character be the special one. Bellamy or Murphy or even Echo, at this point. 

[Sakura12]

Well Madi will be special too. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Sakura12

[UNOSEZ]

I agree lots of ppl have done dirt.. But what has raven actually dine besides suffer and be a deus ex machina when they need techno-saving... Its dawned on me she's the Bonnie Bennett of The 100

[Lilac2000]

I appreciate the casting of Jordan--he really does like he could be the son of Monty and Harper. His smile is very similar to Harper's.

And there must be flashbacks coming of the "Primes" because the one photo looked very much like Sean Maguire. 

[ketose]

Highest body count still goes to Alie / Becca, which made all this crap necessary.

I find that the plot dictates who is right or wrong because most decisions are ill-considered and arbitrary. What we know is that there are a few hundred human beings left and 5 planets to choose from. I can only assume a weird, unexpected problem will be found on each one.

Also, I'm not holding out a lot of hope for Kane to remain on the show much longer. He's getting too old for this show where they're bringing in new teenage cast members.

I will be here for every episode of it, too.

[ParadoxLost]

You know what doesn't bode well?

Twice in this episode, someone said we need to wake X for Y reason, don't wake Octavia.

And someone woke Octavia.

Literally no one besides Clarke and Bellamy care that Monti gave them a second chance.

I think they needed a better re education plan than wake up Clarke and Bellamy first.  Maybe banners.  Killing bad.  Don't eat your neighbor.

At a minimum, not the greatest idea to go do everything at once.  Did they really need to take Kane out of stasis to save him right that minute, setting off a chain of waking up Skaikru that are loyal to power mad Octavia.  Maybe don't wake anyone that ate anyone until a food source other than weird fungus juice is found.

My argument is certain to be rendered moot by those on the planet not being able to retain control of their ship. I wonder if they wake up the rest of the prisoners and cannibals to deal with whoever took the ship.

Thinking about the attitude displayed by Raven, Murphy, Emori, et. all to Clarke and Abby.  I think its the unevenness of the bitchy attitudes that is bugging me.  Its been less than 24 hours for them, so I get that its a fresh wound and everyone up on the arc doesn't get what was going on down on planet, not really.  Too much was going on too fast to really digest (sorry) it.

But in terms of total WTF, it was really strange that Abby's response to Raven's attitude was about not transferring her own maternal angst to Abby (setting up a strong take down of Abby..my mother didn't torture me).  Thats so five seasons ago.  Instead Abby's rebuttal should have been.... We were locked in a bunker.  We ran out of food.  We ate each other to survive.  Wonkru didn't allow a choice not to eat.  I couldn't cope.  I got addicted to drugs.  I'm sorry that I did what I did to you while I was spiraling out of control.  Why not say that?  It seems like the only reason is to make sure Raven retains the high ground. To be knocked off it later?  To have heightened drama until they get bored with it and move on.

Same thing with Clarke and Bellamy.  FFS, are they not aware that they are outnumbered by cannibals and dangerous criminals?  Perhaps it would have been wise to work through their stuff before waking everyone up.  Then wake up the people least likely to kill everyone to gain control and work through issues with them until there is some kind of plan on how to integrate power mad dictators, cannibals, and killers with their lets have a fresh start where we don't blow up the planet and kill everyone plan.  And then go down to the planet.

Instead they decide that working out those issues should be save for when everyone is suffering from sun induced psychosis.  Because the other way is boring.  This show.

[tennisgurl]

For the life of me, I cannot even remember who all has betrayed who, who has the highest body count, who killed whos loved ones, who has committed the most atrocities, etc. This whole show needs its own murder board that stretches across the original Arc just to keep up with all the murders and betrayals and fuck ups and break downs and such. So its really hard to get behind people being dicks to each other, for reasons I can hardly remember. And no one on this show really has the high ground at this point anyway, so maybe its time to let bygones be bygones? You dont have to forgive and forget, just focus on this new planet and maybe not fucking everything up AGAIN!

[KittenPokerCheater]

Not a bad episode, but if they don't do better, I'm going to be massively disgusted.  I wonder where the people are- where they hide when the eclipse comes- and how often it comes.

On a shallow note, either I've forgotten what Octavia looked like, or she had some work done.  I'm pretty certain it's the latter

[UNOSEZ]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

For the life of me, I cannot even remember who all has betrayed who, who has the highest body count, who killed whos loved ones, who has committed the most atrocities, etc. This whole show needs its own murder board that stretches across the original Arc just to keep up with all the murders and betrayals and fuck ups and break downs and such. So its really hard to get behind people being dicks to each other, for reasons I can hardly remember. And no one on this show really has the high ground at this point anyway, so maybe its time to let bygones be bygones? You dont have to forgive and forget, just focus on this new planet and maybe not fucking everything up AGAIN!

I don't remember everything but I do know Clarke was responsible for shaw and raven being tortured ( I'm sure there was a rational reason to do it.. But still)  also her and Bellamy were mighty quick to decide octavia shouldn't be in charge and worked to undermine her instead of understanding the situation she was in... This doesn't absolve anyone else of anything just why those 3( whoops I mean two.. Since str8 black guys can't seem to last long)  have issues with Clarke and of those two raven unless im forgetting something really major didn't even do anything wrong but was left in enemy hands and tortured by her surrogate mom( who's clarke's real mom)  and also had to watch a guy she cared about suffer... And now he's dead and Wanheda is at the center of most of that stuff

[Sakura12]

Raven is probably the only one that has any kind of a moral high ground. She can yell at Clarke and Abby. Murphy who has done all sorts of shady, selfish crap has no moral high ground. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Sakura12

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Raven is probably the only that has any kind of a moral high ground. She can yell at Clarke and Abby. Murphy who has done all sorts of shady, selfish crap has no moral high ground. 

True. Raven was directly affected from Clarke and Abby's choices. I know I've complained a little bit about Raven's behaviour in this premiere (I do find her behaviour a bit hypocritical), but it doesn't mean that she's wrong. 

Murphy's anger is a little more puzzling, but I do like how, when Clarke finally spoke back to him about him getting many second chances, he seemed to agree. It's just bizarre to see Murphy take three steps back, especially with how far he's come since season 1. 

[NUguy514]

4 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

On a shallow note, either I've forgotten what Octavia looked like, or she had some work done.  I'm pretty certain it's the latter

I felt that way about Lindsay Morgan.  Something about her face looked different in this episode, and it was kind of disconcerting.

[UNOSEZ]

4 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I felt that way about Lindsay Morgan.  Something about her face looked different in this episode, and it was kind of disconcerting.

I thought octavia looked off but I think that's Cuz there was no grounder makeup... As for raven.. She had her hair down some... The actress looks like Vanessa Morgan to me ( Toni on riverdale)  tho I don't think they're related 

[mxc90]

If that's a moon, I want to see what the planet is like.

After a nice long rest, it's nice to see some people's animosity and hatred return stronger and more pathetic.

Couldn't the drop down ship test the atmosphere and other conditions before landing and taking a big chance on the air (Please be breathable, Please be breathable)? And now Emori is the first casualty of this.

I was waiting for some creature to jump out of the water and devour Murphy (like Samuel L Jackson in "Deep Blue Sea") or he devolp some skin infection.

It would be funny if the bugs took the ship.

Edited May 2, 2019 by mxc90

[AudienceofOne]

Good God, are the writers trying to drive me away by making everyone insufferable little bitches? 

And while I get that the writers wanted to remind us that Raven and Shaw were a couple right before they kill him, making a completely random sex scene the first one we see of a new season was just totally bizarre. 

On 5/1/2019 at 12:31 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Now, she's probably going to blame Clarke, just like everyone else has been doing all episode.

As usual the only characters behaving like adults are Clarke and Bellamy and so having the characters blame Clarke for everything up to and including the fall of the Roman Empire and the splitting of the atom just made them seem like dicks. 

Raven at least is in character. She's always had a tendency towards moral absolutism and so her reaction to something like Abby's addiction is similar to her reaction to Finn's death - she tends to judge actions without reference to context and she's unforgiving of them even in circumstances where they probably should be taken into account.

On 5/1/2019 at 1:33 PM, ParadoxLost said:

It came from a bunch of people who spent their time in less challenging circumstances than everyone else.  And she wasn't the only one needing some forgiveness.

I feel like the show seems determined to set everyone against Clarke despite the fact none of them would be alive if it wasn't for her. Clarke is held to a higher standard of behaviour than the others and her persistent maturity in the face of their crap just made them more annoying.

I guess we could assume that the atmospheric phenomena they were dealing with heightened the issues between them. But they were already bitching at each other on the ship and I didn't see a noticeable change in their childishness once they got to Alpha. 

If this show's point is that humanity is a bunch of assholes who don't deserve to live, then congratulations! Their point is made. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by AudienceofOne

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Raven at least is in character. She's always had a tendency towards moral absolutism and so her reaction to something like Abby's addiction is similar to her reaction to Finn's death - she tends to judge actions without reference to context and she's unforgiving of them even in circumstances where they probably should be taken into account.

Very true. Plus, after some thought, I do think I can give Raven a little leeway. She has really been through a lot on this show and doesn't get much to show for it. But Raven's biggest issue is that she can be too judgmental. When she gets angry, she knows exactly what to say to hurt people, and it can get nasty. I can give Raven a little leeway for this one episode, although I might react the same as to my initial reactions here if her behaviour does continue. 

I do wonder if this will be the season where Raven goes to the lengths that many other characters have gone. Almost everyone now has done terrible things for what they thought was for the better. Raven hasn't quite reached those lengths yet, though she's gotten close, so I do wonder with Shaw's death and once she finds out, that she might finally snap. 

5 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I feel like the show seems determined to set everyone against Clarke despite the fact none of them would be alive if it wasn't for her. Clarke is held to a higher standard of behaviour than the others and her persistent maturity in the face of their crap just made them more annoying.

I guess we could assume that the atmospheric phenomena they were dealing with heightened the issues between them. But they were already bitching at each other on the ship and I didn't see a noticeable change in their childishness once they got to Alpha. 

Clarke does call herself a leader so it makes sense as to why she might be held to a higher standard. But yes, she has also sacrificed for people a LOT. I think it might just take some time for people to calm down. Last season, she did make some choices that only benefited her and Madi so I can see why some might be still a bit upset; for them, no time has passed since then. But still, I hope Clarke keeps calling out the hypocrisy because she's hurt them and also helped them. She does deserve more slack here. 

[AzureOwl]

Am I the only one who finds it a little foreboding that they are already laying the groundwork for more worlds by saying that Eligius III was supposed to plant five colonies?

Are the Terrans going to bring death and destruction to all the human worlds of the galaxy?

[soundwave]

The setting slightly resembles me the Battle Royale genre, I wouldn't like to see them killing each other till last man standing. 😞

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Clarke does call herself a leader so it makes sense as to why she might be held to a higher standard. But yes, she has also sacrificed for people a LOT. I think it might just take some time for people to calm down. Last season, she did make some choices that only benefited her and Madi so I can see why some might be still a bit upset; for them, no time has passed since then. But still, I hope Clarke keeps calling out the hypocrisy because she's hurt them and also helped them. She does deserve more slack here. 

Part of the problem I'm having is that I have to stop and think too much about the impacts of time over the seasons (both in what I remember and show timeline that should be informing how characters behave) and then do a little jazz hands to make sense of how people are acting. But when I do that, this is what I generally think...

The six people on the arc (now four) are a family built over six years in a confined space.  Clarke is not part of that.  Clarke became over six years the savior who sacrificed their life for theirs. But she was dead.  They were happy when it turned out she wasn't dead but the bonds had faded into memory while others had strengthened. So when Clarke was willing to betray them to save Madi, they were disillusioned.  They aren't even bothering to think about why she would have done something like that because the people in their little family unit were hurt / betrayed and Clarke was supposed to be the one that sacrifices everything to save them.  They don't know or care enough about Clarke anymore to even try to see where she was coming from.

On the surface, Bellamy seems to behaving better than the others, but he is actually the worst.  One thing I do remember about last season is that Bellamy fully comprehended that Madi was Clarke's child and she was in full Mother bear mode.  He purposely chose to put the flame in Madi over Clarke's desperate objections.  He flat out told her that he was going to do it because Echo,, Raven, Murphy, and Emori were his family and just walked out the door while Clarke was screaming at him because he'd promised to keep Madi safe.

Then he had the audacity to be upset that Clarke left him to the pits.  He only started coming around to being civil to her again because Madi told him she'd called him on the radio everyday for six years.  That was just worshipful enough for Bellamy to consider that Clarke could earn her way back in eventually.  But he's still operating from a place that Clarke needs to redeem herself and the others should be given slack to spit vitriol at her until they get it out of there systems rather than sitting them down and explaining this is where Clarke's head was at and this is how I betrayed Clarke to save you so maybe cut her a little slack.

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

Am I the only one who finds it a little foreboding that they are already laying the groundwork for more worlds by saying that Eligius III was supposed to plant five colonies?

Are the Terrans going to bring death and destruction to all the human worlds of the galaxy?

To borrow from 'Family Feud':

100 people on the Eligius III surveyed, top answer on the board.  Survey says ...... yes !!

[UNOSEZ]

To my recollection most of the really horrible decisions that burned a lot of ppl were made for the good of the most ppl ( depending on who said character's "people" were)  All the early stuff on the arc like Kane spacing 300 or so folks... Damn near everything Jaha Sr.  did...  Echo constantly stabbing wonkru in the back for her ice ppl... Didn't Alexa also betray wonkru for her ppl... Clarke going murder town on those Mt.  Weather folks... Last season Clarke's decisions were all about Madi.. And that put her at odds with her friends.. And sure thats what parents are supposed to do.. But when you endanger others even if its to save ur  kid.. Ppl aren't gonna be happy... Its one of the reasons I can't stand Abby.. She's always putting saving Clarke above doing whatever it is they all agreed to do... ( I understand it.. I know why she does it..)  Doesn't mean I can't be pissed off about it... Its why I was so angry at her and Bellamy ( most of skykru if I'm being honest)  last season... They took one look at the bunker which admittedly wasn't in great shape... And decided they knew better and proceeded to undermine wonkru leadership in an effort to work with a bunch of strange criminals who had already attacked their friends.. And why.. For Clarke to protect Madi... For Bellamy to keep up the peace he and skykru had lived in rather blissfully over the last few years... My hope is that at some point before the next war.. Is that they'll all sit a minute and talk about the mistakes they made... That includes Octavia.. Tho while an unpopular opinion I pretty much was ok with her posture most of the season ( not all)  her and her ppl got free of the bunker.. Reunited with lost friends and attacked by random stranger criminals all within a few hours.. And in the middle of all that  Kane and Abby run off to the enemy which created a cascade of others thinking the grass was greener on the other side( it wasn't)  and weakened the ones who remained... Why anyone would trust those elgius ppl to share the last bit of hospitable land is beyond me.. Octavia was thinking ( As I would)  these ppl are going to enslave who they can and kill the rest of us.. We need to fight.. But the self-interested peaceniks and traitors weren't having that... And then the wheels came off... 

I am kinda confused as to why Bellamy is so mad at octavia?  Also did Clarke want to assassinate Octavia or am I imagining that? 

[Lady Calypso]

48 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

. Its one of the reasons I can't stand Abby.. She's always putting saving Clarke above doing whatever it is they all agreed to do... ( I understand it.. I know why she does it..)  Doesn't mean I can't be pissed off about it... Its why I was so angry at her and Bellamy ( most of skykru if I'm being honest)  last season... They took one look at the bunker which admittedly wasn't in great shape... And decided they knew better and proceeded to undermine wonkru leadership in an effort to work with a bunch of strange criminals who had already attacked their friends.. And why.. For Clarke to protect Madi... For Bellamy to keep up the peace he and skykru had lived in rather blissfully over the last few years...

I mean, sure, but to be fair, Abby hasn't always done this. She allowed her own daughter to be considered a criminal without trying to protect her and got her sent down to the ground without, again, trying to protect her. Come to think of it, Abby really ISN'T that great. I mean, I never really liked her, but upon reflecting, she may be worse than I've been thinking. 

54 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

 I am kinda confused as to why Bellamy is so mad at octavia?  Also did Clarke want to assassinate Octavia or am I imagining that? 

Bellamy's mad at Octavia because of her actions last season. She burned down the hydrofarm, which kind of screwed them all. They had a chance at peace and Octavia forced Wonkru to follow her to the valley, which set off hundreds of more deaths.  Basically, Bellamy's pissy about Bloodreina more than Octavia herself. 

What I'm more confused about is why Bellamy seems to be fine with Clarke. He seemed to only forgive her once Madi revealed that Clarke had been "talking" to Bellamy in the radio for six years. That's more confusing to me. 

They've all made shitty choices. All of them are basically responsible for the events that took place last season. They all just need to own that they're shitty people and move on.

[UNOSEZ]

21 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I mean, sure, but to be fair, Abby hasn't always done this. She allowed her own daughter to be considered a criminal without trying to protect her and got her sent down to the ground without, again, trying to protect her. Come to think of it, Abby really ISN'T that great. I mean, I never really liked her, but upon reflecting, she may be worse than I've been thinking. 

Bellamy's mad at Octavia because of her actions last season. She burned down the hydrofarm, which kind of screwed them all. They had a chance at peace and Octavia forced Wonkru to follow her to the valley, which set off hundreds of more deaths.  Basically, Bellamy's pissy about Bloodreina more than Octavia herself. 

What I'm more confused about is why Bellamy seems to be fine with Clarke. He seemed to only forgive her once Madi revealed that Clarke had been "talking" to Bellamy in the radio for six years. That's more confusing to me. 

They've all made shitty choices. All of them are basically responsible for the events that took place last season. They all just need to own that they're shitty people and move on.

Ima have to Netflix the hydrofarm epi... I vaguely remember it being referred to... I should binged before the season started.. Its just so much TV on and only a few hours a day to catch up on it.. And half of that time is spent going back and forth with all y'all wonderful non-hateful un-imdb/ ign /reddit etc al. Message board ppl... 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Why anyone would trust those elgius ppl to share the last bit of hospitable land is beyond me.. Octavia was thinking ( As I would)  these ppl are going to enslave who they can and kill the rest of us.. We need to fight.. But the self-interested peaceniks and traitors weren't having that...

Yep.  I agree completely.  I may not have liked everything Octavia did (last season and/or before) but I always understood her reasoning and agreed with her perspective most of the time.  Everybody wants to rag on Octavia for being a warmonger, but Diyoza and the Elegius crew were the ones standing around holding all the weapons after having Bunkerkru be disarmed as a condition of digging them out of the bunker.  Diyoza is the one who threatened Bunkerkru if they didn't turn over Abby (their doctor).  The Elegius guy is the one who disintegrated a Bunkerkru guy because he didn't like the way Octavia was looking at him.  Diyoza is the one who sent supplies and food over to entice people to betray Octavia and desert.  Etc etc etc.

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Bellamy's mad at Octavia because of her actions last season. She burned down the hydrofarm, which kind of screwed them all. They had a chance at peace and Octavia forced Wonkru to follow her to the valley, which set off hundreds of more deaths.

I will always maintain that Octavia burned down the hydrofarm because she just couldn't let Bunkerkru pin their hopes on something that had failed them before, with horrible results.  Yes they didn't have Monty's algae before, but even he said it would take years for the land outside to become arable again.  So even though they weren't literally still stuck inside the bunker, they weren't that much better off than they were before.  And if they went "peaceably" to that Valley, they were agreeing to become Diyoza's/Elegius' slaves, I think that was pretty clear.  And once a people have given up their freedom, they have to fight twice as hard - if not more - to get it back.  Octavia really was doing the best thing she could for her people's future.

[AudienceofOne]

The problem with last season was that everything that explained Octavia's behaviour was kept back until the final episodes as some sort of cheap "reveal". I still think she became a classic megalomanic dictator but it wasn't until the end of that season that we saw the natural progression of events that led her there. 

Last season was just not that well written. Mostly because it was two or even three seasons of television packed into 13 episodes so none of the characterisation made sense. I still maintain Clarke was woefully out of character for the whole thing but if they'd put the groundwork in maybe I'd see it differently. 

In particular, this whole thing where the Arc group bonded as a family and that informed all their decisions over the season was just sketched in thin pencil for us. We needed to see that because, for us, we'd seen relationships formed over five years in the show and only 30 seconds in the season.

If this first episode is anything to go by, this season will have the same problem. 

[Bort]

I realize that it feels like it's been about 125 years since last season and the memories are fuzzy, but let's try and keep the discussion about what happened in this particular episode.

[shireenbamfatheon]

Clarke has often saved people but she's also screwed her "friends" over pretty much every single season. Given that they knew her for circa six months before they were separated for six years, and then were sold out by her and left to be tortured and murdered as soon as they reunited again, I'm surprised no one's shanked her yet. These people spent six years in space together; they're family at this point. And Clarke tried to get them killed twice last season and let Raven witness Shaw's torture because of Madi, another person she tortured, because she was willing to let every single person burn if it meant the two of them could live on a planet inhabited by a convicted murderer and his band of merry space pirates. Two women alone on the planet with those men. Good luck. So yeah, I'm enjoying all the shade they're throwing her way.
 

[Sakura12]

Madi is Clarke's family, she's the one she spent 6 years with. It's no different than what Spacekru went through. They were willing to give Madi up to Wonkru because it helped them. 

Bellamy's mad at Octavia because she threw him into the fighting pits to die. And she burned a food source so she could maintain power. Octavia was going to assassinate Madi, there's no way she would want to give up her power, Clarke wanted to get to her before that happened, then Bellamy found a way to poison her. 

They've all screwed each other over multiple times. None of them have the moral high ground except for Raven. For me Murphy should be the last person complaining about Clarke. 

[ParadoxLost]

So did anyone else get what specific crazy was driving Bellamy other than a vague I'm going to kill everyone, or at least Echo, Murphy, and Clarke, to save 'us'.

Everyone else seemed more clearly defined in their anxiety. 

[shireenbamfatheon]

 

 

1

On 5/6/2019 at 1:43 AM, Sakura12 said:

Madi is Clarke's family, she's the one she spent 6 years with. It's no different than what Spacekru went through. They were willing to give Madi up to Wonkru because it helped them. 

Except Clarke's actions put Madi at risk whereas Bellamy's plan would have spared them all bloodshed given how the Grounders immediately turned on Bloodreina or whatever she likes to be called when they found out about Madi being a Nightblood. Madi was Clarke's tether to sanity in a world with only the two as inhabitants, and so she robbed her of free will and any chance of living a fulfilling life because she'd rather them be the only two people on earth than put Madi in a dangerous position... Except that's exactly what she did when she sided with a psychopath. That's how delusional and abusive she was. This show doesn't depict rape but Clarke and Madi as the only two women along with a group of high-profile male criminals. I don't need to explain what would've happened.

Whereas others tried to find alternatives to war and killing, Clarke never saw any such options. In the very first episode she killed a man who tried to save Madi. Bloodshed and deception have been Clarke's answers to pretty much any problem post-season two. And then she cries and whines about having no choice, but she always goes back to those two options. Watch her do the exact same thing this season. 

 

[SourK]

I always think I'm not going to care about the premise of the new season and then it always kind of sucks me in. Creepy planet where everybody kills everybody else during the eclipse for some weird reason? I am in.

On 4/30/2019 at 11:33 PM, ParadoxLost said:

So the piling on Clarke sat wrong with me.  Mostly because it came from a bunch of people who spent their time in less challenging circumstances than everyone else.  And she wasn't the only one needing s+ome forgiveness.

The only part that sat right with me was Murphy telling her she was on her fifth chance. Mostly because there's a pattern now where it seems like, after every major turning point, we go through the same cycle where people are mad at Clarke and she gives a speech about how she's sorry they feel that way but they have to give her a chance to do better -- and it's nice to hear someone point out that that speech gets less convincing the more often you give it.