S08.E01: Winterfell

[Kate47]

Something I found interesting in regards to the "Sam tells Jon about his lineage out of revenge" POV: 

It's actually Bran who drives home the point to Sam that he has to tell Jon *right now.* Presumably, Bran knows what Sam has just been through, and he knows that this is the way it has to be done.

Sam comes out of the library and is just trying to collect his emotions and thoughts, and Bran immediately sets him on a course.

I also dig the comment Bran made to Sam, when Sam says "you tell him, you're his brother" and Bran says "I'm not his brother." It has a few layers because yeah, they aren't brothers, but also Bran isn't Bran anymore, not really. It was a nice dual purpose comment.

Edited to add: Thinking on it, I don't think it was done in the style of revenge, but rather that the news of his family gave Sam the impetus to tell Jon. On his own, Sam would have waffled or waited or procrastinated, so Bran's emphasis makes sense. And Sam being Sam, he didn't go in there determined to create rifts or get his. He told Jon the truth with as much empathy as he could. 

All this to say that it didn't strike me as vengeful so much as a driving reason to finally clear the air.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Kate47
I had thoughts

[tangerine95]

I'm not actually sure if saying Jon bent the knee when he didn't have because Dany saved him would have helped,maybe it would have just added fuel to the whole he only did it cause she seduced it him thing that a lot of people would be very quick to assume.I just feel like they're so insistent on their hate and not giving her a chance that they wouldn't care even knowing that.

I personally would prefer if Jon told the full truth but I feel like it's not that the writers are ignoring it and more that it's a strategy they agreed on to let Jon keep his influence in the north so he can ease the way towards them accepting Dany.Like what Dany meant when she said they'll accept her if their king does.And Tyrion praising Jon instead of Dany was about that,so they trust him and trust his judgement.I do hope Jon tells Arya at least.I would say I hope he tells Sansa too but I'm honestly not sure she'll care as it seems to me that she just resents power being taken from her no matter what kind of person Dany is.

Edited April 17, 2019 by tangerine95

[Conan Troutman]

On 4/15/2019 at 9:55 PM, KungFuBunny said:

The scene where the dragons sniff Jon and look at him while he;s kissing Danerys - was it more of a look as I can sense/smell you and recognize you having Targaryen blood? I think only Tagaryens can ride a dragon, but not all Targaryens ride.

I don't know the White Walkers history - is the Night King the first man made into a White Walker or do they die/taken out of commission thru war. Make me wonder if when Rhaegar was killed by Robert Baratheon at the Trident - did the white walkers get a hold of him and turn him - then somewhere along his journey he became the Night King. This is why the Night King can ride a dragon. Now this fight is really Rhaegar fighting his son and his sister.

The way the boy was killed and staged - the logarithmic spiral was shown in the cave drawings Jon and Dany found in the cave with dragonglass - I think made by the Children of the forest

I don't think this is a hard and fast rule. There simply hasn't been any precedence of a non-Targ riding a dragon, but it all depens on the dragon - now I think it's unlikely that one of Dany's dragons will let anyone other than Dany and Jon ride him, but that doesn't mean another dragon can't decide to let someone with no Targaryen blood at all ride him. 

I highly doubt the NK is Rhaegar. The show made a flashback how he was created and also showed him turning Craster's sons. And he can't really have Targaryen blood - back then there were only the First Men and the CotF in Westeros, Targaryens came just 300 years ago. I think the NK can ride a dragon because the dragon is (un)dead and can't care about what blood his rider has, or if he has any at all. 

Yes those are the same spirals from the pilot and what the CotF also use. But since the Children created them, I'm not sure there's more we can read into that. Maybe they use in a religious fashion, maybe they just mock them or whatever. 

On 4/16/2019 at 12:46 AM, YaddaYadda said:

Bran: I'm the Three-Eyed Raven now, bitches! I don't do.

He'll have to at some point, or he'll become the Wee-Eyed Raven...

20 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I just watched a second time and had a couple of new thoughts.

So . . . am I the only one who finds it unlikely that Cersei would send Bronn to kill Tyrion and Jaimie?  Does she even KNOW Bronn?  We know the two actors have NEVER had a scene together because they are former lovers who had a bad break-up and, apparently, won't consent to act opposite one another.  I suppose we can pretend their characters HAVE met in Kings Landing at some point but clearly they are not close. Cersei is pregnant with Jaime's baby.  Do we REALLY think she'd send the sell-sword who has a close personal relationship with Jaime to be his assassin?  Do we really think she'd send ANYONE to kill him?  She still loves him.  I think we need to consider the possibility that Qyburn has gone rogue and sent Bronn on this mission without Cersei's consent.

Also can we just take a moment to think about the absurdity of Qyburn giving Bronn a wagon of gold BEFORE he does the deed he's being hired for? That's unrealistically trusting of Qyburn.  And what is Bronn going to do with his loot while he makes the trip to Winterfell?  The wife and estate he was promised were taken back, weren't they?  (Can someone remind me why that was?) So where is he going to stash the goods while he makes the trip?  That whole plot line seems contrived to come up with something for Bronn to do and to get him out of Kings Landing and into the action up north.

I think Cersei's fully aware of that. She may want to test Bronn's loyalty and I'm sure she has a backup plan - if Bronn is her best killer, still can't hurt to send her second and third best as well to make sure. 

Well if Cersei wins, what is Bronn going to do with the gold? Take it with him while Cersei hunts him down? If he stashes it somewhere, Cersei should be able to find it (and again, she'll probably have him watched anyway).

[dragonsbite]

4 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

What happened to the following:

1) Ramsey killed his father and inherited all of his property. Ramsey married Sansa and when Ramsey was killed does she have claim to all of his property? What happened to the people who lived there - not the soldiers? Did they empty the properties of all supplies/equipment?

2) Arya killed Walder Frey - what is going on at House of Frey? Does Winterfell now control House Of Frey? I remember there was some strategic use (pathway) on Frey land that would be beneficial in war.

I wondered the same thing! 

1)  I figured that after the Battle of the Bastards, the winning team either killed or imprisoned any of Ramsey's soldiers at Winterfell that refused to accept the new leadership. And the soldiers probably were smart enough to join the new Stark army. 

2) Did Arya tell the Frey women to release Edmure from the dungeon? Probably the daughter that he married would -- particularly if Jaime was telling the truth about Edmure having fathered a son with her. Would any of the other women have done that on their own? They were in Riverrun, right?  Would the women want to continue the Frey family behavior and teach the little Walder sons, which Arya didn't kill, to take revenge on the Starks? Would they run home to The Twins? Or were they just happy to be rid of old Walder? (like much of the rest of Westeros).

D&D do a poor job of following up on things like this. Other examples include the Reeds. Just dropping Meera after all she did for Bran. She was important in the story; doubly so, since her father knows what happened at the Tower of Joy.
 

[KungFuBunny]

17 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

I don't think this is a hard and fast rule. There simply hasn't been any precedence of a non-Targ riding a dragon, but it all depens on the dragon - now I think it's unlikely that one of Dany's dragons will let anyone other than Dany and Jon ride him, but that doesn't mean another dragon can't decide to let someone with no Targaryen blood at all ride him. 

I highly doubt the NK is Rhaegar. The show made a flashback how he was created and also showed him turning Craster's sons. And he can't really have Targaryen blood - back then there were only the First Men and the CotF in Westeros, Targaryens came just 300 years ago. I think the NK can ride a dragon because the dragon is (un)dead and can't care about what blood his rider has, or if he has any at all. 

Yes those are the same spirals from the pilot and what the CotF also use. But since the Children created them, I'm not sure there's more we can read into that. Maybe they use in a religious fashion, maybe they just mock them or whatever. 

Maybe I worded it wrong. When I was talking about the Night King - I was asking if this Night King was the same FIRST man that was changed into a wight walker by the Children Of The Forest. In other words like the Iron Throne - is there a succession of kings. If there is than it is possible for the current Night King to be Rhaegar.

[AshleyN]

6 hours ago, GrailKing said:

But this is the point, Jon bending the knee does not make her Sansa's or any other person their automatic Queen, Danny should had learn that in Essos and down south with Tarly and others.

I mean, it basically does. In fact, it's exactly how the North came under Targaryan rule in the first place -- Torrhen Stark, the King who Knelt, was King in the North until he bent the knee to Aegon the Conquerer because he realized his people would be annihilated if they tried to fight.

[screamin]

11 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Precisely, in wintertime it's better not to stay in the North, especially since Daenerys is going South for the war. She can retreat in Dragonstone, where she'll be best protected, and icy roads are not a problem for her re: dragons.

It's going to be wintertime all over the continent, not just in the North. And Dany's army can't fly; they've got to walk if Dany wants to march south to wage war in the wintertime, Valley Forging it down the continent in freezing tents. And if they aren't taking food supplies from the North, they'll have to supply themselves by a long besieging of every fortress along the way and trying to take their winter provisions, hoping they can take the fortress without burning the food, and that it will be enough. That's a recipe for a Napoleon in Moscow disaster.

The idea of bedding her army down after defeating the NK in the shelter of WF for the winter, where there's shelter and food enough for them, would be mighty tempting IF she has no scruples about letting the northerners starve to feed her army. Dany should be communicating to the North that she HAS those scruples...but Jon saying he HAD to give up his crown to save the North (when it's not true) and Dany's indifference to the complaints about the lack of food for her army and her wisecrack that her dragons would eat whatever they wanted are definitely failing to convey the impression that she really cares whether the North lives or dies.

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, AshleyN said:

I mean, it basically does. In fact, it's exactly how the North came under Targaryan rule in the first place -- Torrhen Stark, the King who Knelt, was King in the North until he bent the knee to Aegon the Conquerer because he realized his people would be annihilated if they tried to fight.

Yeah right of conquest, basically do what I say or die.

there's more then one way to get people to your side, from a historical perspective he wanted Westerous and plain murdered people to get it.

Like Hitler.

[GraceK]

21 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Yeah right of conquest, basically do what I say or die.

there's more then one way to get people to your side, from a historical perspective he wanted Westerous and plain murdered people to get it.

Like Hitler.

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️Sure Jan

[Constantinople]

9 hours ago, GraceK said:

Everyone is saying how smart, how shrewd, what a player she is now.

Arya said Sansa is the smartest person Arya ever met. Considering Arya hung out with the likes of Lomny, Hot Pie, Gendry, the Brotherhood and the Hound for two seasons, that's a fair statement

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, screamin said:

It's going to be wintertime all over the continent, not just in the North. And Dany's army can't fly;

Winter is less harsh in the South, proof is WF is under the snow and KL isn't, in this episode. Also, by re: dragons I mean they can de-ice the road spitting fire (like they did beyond the wall with the lake).

Jon left saying he'd get dragonglass to create weapons to save the North and would try to get an alliance to save the North. He came back with dragonglass, concrete evidence of his priority, and an army to save the North. They know (at least Sansa and the lords do) that Daenerys is at war with Cersei and stopped her conquest to help them. If they don't get she's on their side, and has only good intentions toward them, they're dumber than a wight.

Again, they beggars, not choosers. Daenerys, their only chance of survival, doesn't have to kiss their ass, less when her graciousness and good will was met with bratty rudeness.

48 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Like Hitler.

Awww. LOL.

[GraceK]

13 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Arya said Sansa is the smartest person Arya ever met. Considering Arya hung out with the likes of Lomny, Hot Pie, Gendry, the Brotherhood and the Hound for two seasons, that's a fair statement

Lmao touché 

[Andromeda]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

Arya said Sansa is the smartest person Arya ever met. Considering Arya hung out with the likes of Lomny, Hot Pie, Gendry, the Brotherhood and the Hound for two seasons, that's a fair statement

Arya, who has had an interrupted education, is probably amazed at how fast Sansa can add bushels of grain on her WF ledgers. 

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Like Hitler.

More like Alexander the Great or William the Conquerer. Or Genghis Kahn.  Or Julius Caesar... Or --

[Nanrad]

On 4/16/2019 at 8:05 AM, screamin said:

I think you have the key to the problem there; she ignores completely the larger question of feeding her army that Sansa brought up, makes a vaguely threatening putdown that mocks the fear she's SEEN the Northerners have of her dragons, and, in your own words, "drops the issue."

No, wait, there's actually TWO issues brought up at that council meeting. One was how to get enough food for the North to last through the winter. Yes, the NK is by far the more immediate threat, but it will be little comfort to the North if Dany beats the NK and then decides to winter her army at WF, eating their winter stores while they starve. A few reassurances on that point would go a long way. The other issue brought up is the anger at the loss of their own chosen king, and their fear and distrust of the queen, as manifested in the rudeness of Lyanna's furious outburst at Jon, and in a lesser form in Sansa's rudeness when speaking of the food shortage. It is illuminating to note which issue Dany chooses to ignore as unworthy of her attention, and which issue she addresses at least briefly in her threatening little wisecrack, broods over, and comes back to later to order Jon to do something about it.

I don't think there's a huge amount of merit in the fact that she came to Jon in private to tell him to put a leash on Sansa. She met her Northern Council for the first time. She saw clearly that Jon, while upset at the Northerners' reaction, was not surprised at the format of the meeting, the lords speaking their minds freely and Jon not reprimanding them for doing so. This is obviously business as usual for the North. If Dany wants to change it, it's better if she does it herself publicly, where all the lords can see it and know that the new sheriff in town has a new style they have to adapt to. And since she can see that there is a legitimate worry about food, it would be best if she make some public attempt to reassure the Northerners that she will take care of the issue. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. If she'd publicly reprimanded the people who'd been rude and said she would expect more respectful address in the future, and then reassured everyone that the food situation was something she would be sure to alleviate, she would make the impression of being a stern but fair ruler. Instead, she snarked in a way that told the Northerners she didn't really care if the dragons that have been flying freely over the countryside and scaring people eat anything or anyone that moves. Yes, it's a joke, but I doubt the scared people would find it funny, especially since even We the TV Viewers don't know if the dragons have been trained NOT to eat humans.

Nor do I find much merit in Dany's telling Jon in private to make his relatives behave. She's left him without power (as Lyanna pointed out, a Warden without land is not a lord, or anything else, really) so all the currency Jon has to spend is his family affection and threats conveyed secondhand from Dany. She's putting him in a rotten position.

Actually, Dany isn't ignoring the larger issue of the food. She's listening to the council as well as Sansa's concerns before Sansa then asks her snarky question. Sansa isn't looking for a real answer, she's posturing. Her comment about the food for Winterfell is a legitimate concern. Her question about the dragon is a jab, which is why Dany addressed it. If Sansa hadn't greeted her coldly, which she did, Dany probably would've ignored the jab.

As people keep mentioning, the North fears Targaryens and dragons. Sure, we can say Dany's reply is poor, but that further proves that Sansa deliberately baited Dany into replying. I know there will be people who say, "Dany is a queen, she's supposed to react better than that." But, everyone, kings, queens, common folk, etc have all reacted poorly one way or another. There is clearly tension due to the presence of Dany, her army, and the dragons and Sansa's remarks intentionally stokes that fire. This could be the other source of Dany's irritation with Sansa.

I know Dany has had a problematic history of ruling, but I don't recall her being malicious to common folk and not caring whether or not they eat. I know someone will immediately correct me on her flawed past, but nothing I can recall points to Dany feeding her army and allowing the North to starve. 

Personally, I didn't think her dragons ate people. Maybe in the beginning when they were young and she was still training them. But, for a while, they've eaten goats, sheep, and other animals.

Jon put himself in that position. Although Dany asked him to bend the knee, she let go of that once she saved him and decided to go North with him. Jon was the one who bended on his own rather than bargain a different type of deal. I'm not exactly sure what you want Dany to do. What's done is done? Jon bent the knee. But, Sansa clearly still feels comfortable talking to him, so why not have Jon exercise that family currency to lower tension while she is there. I mean, isn't she accused of burning everyone who doesn't bend the knee. Then, when she tries a non violent way that perhaps could work, it's, "Nah, he doesn't have any power, so it doesn't count?"

I'm not sure what people want her to do and it's really baffling.

Dany's not warm enough when telling Sam she killed his brother and father.

Dany rules by violence, but also shouldn't talk to family members about telling their siblings to cool it.

Dany is entitled, but stands back as Jon reunites with his family and silently observes as the council airs their grievances.

It's clear that Dany suffers from three problems: she's no longer the underdog, she's not Sansa, and she's butting heads with people we like, despite many of us rooting for her in the past despite her conducting herself pretty similarly, if not, "worse."

What are Dany's options here, despite the AOTD being a day or so away? How can she sway a stubborn culture in a short time?

Edited April 17, 2019 by Nanrad

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Arya, who has had an interrupted education, is probably amazed at how fast Sansa can add bushels of grain on her WF ledgers. 

Ironically, in the books, it's Arya who's good at math. I vaguely recall a passage with Arya snarkily thinking something along the lines of "good luck to her poor castle" (in AGOT, maybe?).

2 hours ago, Nanrad said:

Personally, I didn't think her dragons ate people. Maybe in the beginning when they were young and she was still training them. But, for a while, they've eaten goats, sheep, and other animals.

Officially, Drogon ate one child as a rogue. That's it. I've seen theories that it was actually a plot against the dragons, but anyway. Tyrion stressed that dragons are smart and don't hurt people when they have no reason to do so (feeling threatened, or threatening Dany).

Edited April 17, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

Ironically, in the books, it's Arya who's good at math. I vaguely recall a passage with Arya snarkily thinking something along the lines of "good luck to her poor castle" (in AGOT, maybe?).

First book. Arya says that she can ride a horse better than Sansa and run a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. And when Sansa is asked if she knows how to write by Cersei (so that she can write that infamous letter), she reflects that she was better at reading and writing than her brothers but that she is hopeless with sums.

(I'm in the middle of a re-read right now)

[Friendly kitty]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

Officially, Drogon ate one child as a rogue. That's it. I've seen theories that it was actually a plot against the dragons, but anyway. Tyrion stressed that dragons are smart and don't hurt people when they have no reason to do so (feeling threatened, or threatening Dany).

Because they had something to eat. But Sansa correctly asked Deanerys about what she was going to feed the dragons. It was already shown in 1 ep. how many animals did they eat, and if they eat them all, and other animals die of hunger and cold, what then? Hungry dragon peoples will eat. Law of the jungle!🙄

Edited April 17, 2019 by Friendly kitty

[Sakura12]

This isn't a time of democracy. If the North named Jon King and Jon as King bends the knee to Daenerys, then Daenerys is now their Queen. Is it fair, no. Do they have to like it, no. But that how it works in that time. 

Dany came to help protect the realm where she can only see two outcomes. Either they defeat the Night King, where probably thousands will die so more food for the survivors. Then she will make her way to KL where probably everyone they meet along the way will be bend the knee to the savior Queen and join her fight to take the throne from Cersei or they will lose and everyone dies, so how much food they have won't matter. 

[Uncle JUICE]

Does anyone else here worry that the ending of this show will effectively ruin REWATCHING this show? For example, if the Bran-/Night King theories are correct and everything that happens somehow ends up being 'something that happened before and always happens' like the Hodor / Wyllis thing, for me, as a viewer, that absolutely deflates the stakes of 7+ seasons of character decisions. How less impactful does Theon's betrayal of the Starks become if he's meant to do it, or if it had already happened (BTW, the lesson here is don't fuck with timelines, time travel never works out well). If the show ends with no one sitting on the iron throne, with J and D dead, or with the NIght King winning (ESPECIALLY the last), then does the show's palace intrigue on a rewatch lose all significance?

This is why I NEED THE BOOKS TO GET FINISHED ALREADY. I have more faith in Martin than I do B/W. 

[screamin]

8 hours ago, Nanrad said:

Actually, Dany isn't ignoring the larger issue of the food. She's listening to the council as well as Sansa's concerns before Sansa then asks her snarky question. Sansa isn't looking for a real answer, she's posturing. Her comment about the food for Winterfell is a legitimate concern. Her question about the dragon is a jab, which is why Dany addressed it. If Sansa hadn't greeted her coldly, which she did, Dany probably would've ignored the jab

Actually, we SEE her ignoring the larger issue of the food. She sits in the council, hearing everyone talk, yes. But the only thing she answers gives no indication she was listening to any concern about there not being enough food for both her army and the North. Her answer has nothing to do with that concern; it's only focused on being vaguely menacing to the woman who was rude in expressing her concern (as well as every peasant whose job it is to work in the fields in the shadow of Dany's free-range organic dragons.) Nor do we see her ever address the problem of food with anyone later in the episode. She doesn't talk to her Hand about it, or to Jon. The only thing she talks about from that meeting, the only thing she seems to have taken from it and seriously thought about after it's over, is how rude Sansa was to her. She broods over whether what she said to Sansa was menacing enough, decides that it wasn't, and tells Jon to make absolutely SURE Sansa is never rude like that to her again, because she's the queen, dammit. Nothing about looking into ways of getting more food. Zip. Zero. Nada.

8 hours ago, Nanrad said:

I know Dany has had a problematic history of ruling, but I don't recall her being malicious to common folk and not caring whether or not they eat.

I agree this is true about Dany. However, the NORTH has not seen the last few seasons of the show and has no way to know this about Dany.

The North suffered the worst of any region throughout the war and went through a lot of recent leaders and aspiring leaders who did not have their best interests as their first concern - Ramsey Bolton, Roose Bolton, Stannis. Even poor Robb put the desires of his heart (and other anatomy) over the interests of the North - and they all suffered for it. They worry that Jon has done the same thing, and they've got no reason to suppose that Dany is any better than any of their recent leaders and might be as bad as what they remember of her dad. It's Jon and her job to convince them that she's not. Jon's already fumbled the job by giving the impression that she'd demanded his abdication in exchange for her support ("I gave up my crown to save the North") which didn't happen. Dany herself didn't help by her gloating over the scare her dragons gave the local smallfolk for the crime of looking at her with unenthusiastic suspicion instead of adoration, compounded by her public declaration that her dragons eat whatever they want. There WAS malice in those acts - small and harmless, but still there, and she hasn't counteracted it with any communication of her good intentions. It's her job to show these people who don't know her that she's caring, and thus far she hasn't been arsed to do it, though she DID take the trouble to scare them.

8 hours ago, Nanrad said:

Personally, I didn't think her dragons ate people. Maybe in the beginning when they were young and she was still training them. But, for a while, they've eaten goats, sheep, and other animals.

Her dragons naturally ate only animal flesh when they were babies, that was what Danaerys fed them. But besides the 3 year old child who her dragons supposedly ate (which I agree we don't know for sure was the dragons' fault), we know for a fact that Dany fed Rhaegal one of the Meereen Masters in front of Hizdahr - so we know that Dany hadn't taught them that eating human flesh is taboo. We know that Dany believed her dragons HAD killed that child, and confined them in a dungeon for safety. We never heard any confirmation that the death of the child was NOT due to the dragons. Nor have we heard from Dany that she's taken any trouble to train them NOT to eat people. We know the Targaryens used to keep their dragons confined to the Dragonpit for safety. We've heard Dany say last season that this was a terrible policy that caused the dragons to be stunted and weak over the generations, and eventually die out - and it seems her darlings won't be forced to follow that policy. This means either A) she's confident she knows more than the Targaryens of old who had long experience of dealing with dragons about keeping them from snacking on innocents, or B) she values their growth and strength over the risk to bystanders.

Now I agree that Dany is fundamentally kindhearted, and that A) is the more likely policy, though I don't know where her confidence that they WON'T harm people while flying free comes from, since we haven't seen her trying to train them about NOT eating people. The fact is we have been given no certainty either way. And if WE aren't certain, why should we expect people who know nothing about Dany personally and WAY too much about her pyromaniac ancestors to believe in her good faith when she herself is not making any effort to convince them of it?

Edited April 17, 2019 by screamin

[GraceK]

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/pilou-asbaek-season-8-episode-1-interview

interview with Pilou. Some interesting tidbits. 

HBO: Euron finally gets to sleep with Cersei in Season 8 Episode 1. Does he have any real affection for her or is this simply another power move?

Pilou Asbæk: He likes her. He’s intrigued by her. He says when he first meets her, “Ever since I was a boy I wanted to grow up and marry the most beautiful woman in the world.”  And Cersei’s certainly beautiful and she has power, and those are two very sexy things. So he’s genuinely attracted to her. But he’s not an idiot: He also knows, “I have the Golden Company, I have the biggest fleet in the world, and you need to pay up.”

There was a big discussion between me and Lena [Headey, who plays Cersei Lannister] and [co-creators] Dan [Weiss] and David [Benioff] where she was like, “It’s is a pretty big thing that in the final season I’m sleeping with this guy.”

I think she did it because she had to, but the way we did it is to make clear he actually loves her. He’s intimidating and evil, and in many ways a menace, but for me it was very important it was genuine love, or else it would be a bit one-dimensional. You always want to make a more three-dimensional villain because those are the most interesting ones. So he loves her and wants to be with her, but he’s also not a guy that you can bully around and that’s why he bullies her.

HBO: This show has had some pretty amazing villains like Joffrey and Ramsay…

Pilou Asbæk: And I don’t think they are the biggest villains. It’s Cersei. She’s the antagonist of the story. But I couldn’t you can’t compare Euron to Joffrey and Ramsay. They have been the very definition of pure evilness. They were psychopaths. The actors did and amazing job, they made us hate them, but with Euron I wanted to try something else because I could never walk in their footsteps. They had much more time and much worse scenes to establish it. So in collaboration with Dan, David and [director] Miguel Sapochnik, we created a character that was more like a rockstar, more like “F**k you, I want to see the world burn, and while I see it burning I’m going to have a good time.”

I bolded the parts the really stood out to me. So he genuine feelings for her? That’s unexpected... although  I’m pleased he sees Cersei as the real villain. 

[screamin]

10 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Winter is less harsh in the South, proof is WF is under the snow and KL isn't, in this episode. Also, by re: dragons I mean they can de-ice the road spitting fire (like they did beyond the wall with the lake).

Yes, winter is less harsh in the south than in the North. And winter's less harsh  in Moscow than Siberia, but winter in Moscow still beat Napoleon, even though Napoleon had the advantage of at least knowing what a MILD winter is like in France and how to deal with that. Dany's dothraki and Unsullied have never seen ANY winter and would have at best secondhand knowledge of how to manage it. And even if the dragons would de-ice the thirty miles of road Dany's armies can march every day (which I find difficult to picture), I really can't imagine them providing central heating for the hundreds of freezing tents they'd have to camp in as they travel. Nor can they do anything about bringing food. War in winter is generally avoided as far as possible by strategists for good reason; the advantage is always to the people who can shelter in place behind weathertight walls with their food supplies over the army that has to march and camp and forage in the cold.  So sheltering in place at WF for the winter  - with its food supplies and its central heating and many buildings to shelter in - MUST be considered a temptation to Dany that will worry the Northerners.

Edited April 17, 2019 by screamin

[KungFuBunny]

16 hours ago, dragonsbite said:

I wondered the same thing! 

1)  I figured that after the Battle of the Bastards, the winning team either killed or imprisoned any of Ramsey's soldiers at Winterfell that refused to accept the new leadership. And the soldiers probably were smart enough to join the new Stark army. 

2) Did Arya tell the Frey women to release Edmure from the dungeon? Probably the daughter that he married would -- particularly if Jaime was telling the truth about Edmure having fathered a son with her. Would any of the other women have done that on their own? They were in Riverrun, right?  Would the women want to continue the Frey family behavior and teach the little Walder sons, which Arya didn't kill, to take revenge on the Starks? Would they run home to The Twins? Or were they just happy to be rid of old Walder? (like much of the rest of Westeros).

D&D do a poor job of following up on things like this. Other examples include the Reeds. Just dropping Meera after all she did for Bran. She was important in the story; doubly so, since her father knows what happened at the Tower of Joy.
 

I think Dreadfort Hall - Ramsey's property was north of Winterfell and not sure about the Frey's Castle - I would think both places could be used as strongholds.

What about the Vale - is that another location with a larger army that can be used in the fight with the AOTD?

[Happy Harpy]

5 hours ago, Friendly kitty said:

 Hungry dragon peoples will eat. Law of the jungle!🙄

Plot point of the episode: The dragons aren't hungry, precisely. 🙄

1 hour ago, screamin said:

So sheltering in place at WF for the winter  - with its food supplies and its central heating and many buildings to shelter in - MUST be considered a temptation to Dany that will worry the Northerners.

You can digress, it always go back to the same main point: Without Daenerys and her armies, exactly zero Northerner has a future to worry about. They're looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Spoiler

And they're going to pay dearly their shortsightedness in two episodes, when the AOTD swamps them. Unfortuntaly, Daenerys will also lose troops and friends for those morons.

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:13 PM, anamika said:

At the very end with Bran and Arya's help. After getting manipulated by him for a whole season into nearly executing her sister and deposing her brother. That makes her the smartest person ever?

We saw no proof that she had any intention of doing either one of these.

On ‎04‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:13 PM, Lemuria said:

Not really.  Until almost the very end, she was listening to him.  He made one mistake and said something about Arya that Sansa knew wasn't true:  That Arya wanted to rule Winterfell.  If he hadn't said that, she might actually have tried to have Arya killed.

Again, nothing I saw in Season 6 comes even close to this.

On ‎04‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:44 PM, anamika said:

So what was up with the Northerners especially giving Missandei and Greyworm the stink eye? Have they not seen any brown skinned people before or is that just their xenophobic tendencies coming to the forefront?

A little of both, I think.  We haven't seen anyone with brown skin in the North before.

On ‎04‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:58 PM, taurusrose said:

she’s not as smart as she thinks she

She's smarter than Tyrion, who somehow believes Cersei is sending the Lannister army north to fight the Night King.

On ‎04‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:59 PM, stagmania said:

Jon’s thoughts immediately jumped to defending Ned and then his own honor as a man who would never betray a vow.

I thought it was very telling that his first reaction was about Ned and not "ewww, I had sex with my aunt".

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:40 AM, anamika said:

Anyway Sansa was getting their support for herself, not for Jon. They did not care about Jon anyway. So good riddance.

She was getting their support for the fight against the Night King, so very much NOT good riddance.

On ‎04‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:42 AM, GraceK said:

Seriously. Let Glover and his men die.

And add to the army of the dead.  Good idea.

On ‎04‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 8:52 AM, benteen said:

Great, creepy scene with the Umber kid.  When he was pinned on that wall, I was wondering if they would at least bury him or burn the body and then I was like “Oh.”  Then the kid opened his eyes!  Not a great plan sending him to Last Hearth, Sansa…

He said he needed more horses and wagons to bring his people from Last Hearth to Winterfell.  What was she supposed to do? 

Honestly, the only good thing about this being the last season, imo, is that the eternal "Sansa's awful/Sansa's wonderful" argument will quiet down, at least until the next book arrives.  Me, I think Sansa's human, has made some bad mistakes, but also learned a lot and is doing her best to take care of the people who owe fealty to the Starks.  She has some good points about Dany, and also harbors a little jealousy/pettiness about her.  On the whole, I think she's grown as a character, and I hope she survives.

[AnnaL]

34 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I thought it was very telling that his first reaction was about Ned and not "ewww, I had sex with my aunt".

I do understand his initial reaction, I mean Jon adored Ned and that was one thing in his life that made his proud, to be the son of Ned Stark. I get what a huge shock it must have been for him to learn that he was not his father's son. 

Then Sam called his attention to the fact that Ned did it to protect him and lied (which is a huge deal for someone as honorable as Ned) to save his life. 

I think towards the end it dawn on him the fact that he had sex with his aunt but at this point the deed is done and there is no taking it back so I think that this part (incest) will not play a big role. It will not be the decisive point to stop their relationship. 

IMO all of this problems will be stopped by the fight against the AOTD and the war against Cersei and only when the dust settles a little bit we will get to see if this has any implications at all or if it will be solved with a marriage. 

I am just confused about Bran insisting that Sam told Jon at that exact moment, why? he must know something, somewhere along the road Jon's heritage is going to come into place but exactly when I am not sure. It doesn't make any sense to me that this info had to be delivered before the battle. Would Jon require some kind of power, knowledge, skill, than only a Targaryen would have that would turn the tides against the NK? 

[MissLucas]

11 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

He said he needed more horses and wagons to bring his people from Last Hearth to Winterfell.  What was she supposed to do? 

Sansa did her best. If there only had been someone around who could have come along on a dragon to protect the evacuation of Last Hearth and maybe do a bit of scouting. Sadly all dragons were booked for a Targ special outing to the best northern make-out spots.

[proserpina65]

8 minutes ago, AnnaL said:

I do understand his initial reaction, I mean Jon adored Ned and that was one thing in his life that made his proud, to be the son of Ned Stark. I get what a huge shock it must have been for him to learn that he was not his father's son. 

Oh, I agree, absolutely.  His reaction showed me just how much it had meant to him to be the son of honorable Ned Stark.  I'm glad he care about that more than being related to Dany.

On a different note: I have to admit to being a little disappointed that apparently the face-off with the Night King and his army are a prelude to the war with Cersei.  I'd have preferred it the other way around.  In fact, I'd have preferred it if they had ended that storyline last season - I've found it tiresome for some time.

[Raachel2008]

On 4/15/2019 at 12:40 AM, GrailKing said:

Well Bronn getting the cross bow will prove her point, Tyrion got played by Cersei.

Add Jaime is now there; will he or won't he spill on Cersei's reneging ?

Bronn has a choice which way does he go and he has several bags of gold.

Sansa being right about Cersei doesn't make her the smartest person her world. 

[screamin]

1 minute ago, Raachel2008 said:

Sansa being right about Cersei doesn't make her the smartest person her world. 

Well, then, it's good that Arya only said that Sansa is the smartest person she knows, not the smartest in the world. Arya doesn't know that many people - a lot of the people she did get to know are dead.

[Raachel2008]

58 minutes ago, screamin said:

Well, then, it's good that Arya only said that Sansa is the smartest person she knows, not the smartest in the world. Arya doesn't know that many people - a lot of the people she did get to know are dead.

I'm sorry, my reply had a typo, "the" intead of "their world", as in the world they know. Yet, it is just an absurd line, that made no favors to anyone.

[Nanrad]

7 hours ago, screamin said:

Actually, we SEE her ignoring the larger issue of the food. She sits in the council, hearing everyone talk, yes. But the only thing she answers gives no indication she was listening to any concern about there not being enough food for both her army and the North. Her answer has nothing to do with that concern; it's only focused on being vaguely menacing to the woman who was rude in expressing her concern (as well as every peasant whose job it is to work in the fields in the shadow of Dany's free-range organic dragons.) Nor do we see her ever address the problem of food with anyone later in the episode. She doesn't talk to her Hand about it, or to Jon. The only thing she talks about from that meeting, the only thing she seems to have taken from it and seriously thought about after it's over, is how rude Sansa was to her. She broods over whether what she said to Sansa was menacing enough, decides that it wasn't, and tells Jon to make absolutely SURE Sansa is never rude like that to her again, because she's the queen, dammit. Nothing about looking into ways of getting more food. Zip. Zero. Nada.

Her not commenting on the food isn't her ignoring the issue of the food. She's listening to everyone's concerns, to which, Sansa takes the time out to throw a jab at Dany's presence there. For someone in her position, eventually, you do have check your subordinates about how they speak to you. Viewers are criticized for needing Sansa's vague warnings spelled out for them, when it's really we're asking for her to voice her thoughts clearly to Jon, but somehow we need everything surrounding Dany spelled out?

The dragons are clearly well trained. We've seen Dany become upset when her dragons acted rogue in any way, such as the supposed burning of the child and presumably eating a person. Do we want a montage of her teaching the dragons that eating people is bad? Or what they should and should not do? We've had moments in the series that speaks to the dragons behavior and training, yet we don't know what they will or won't do?

I'm also confused because the pro Sansa at all cost crowd is saying that titles matter, counter to Jon saying "titles don't matter," but with that title comes respect, which Sansa isn't giving. Just like Sansa being a Lady is important, Dany being a queen is important. Dany isn't reminding Jon that she's queen because she gets off on it, it's because she fought her ass off to get where she is only to be casually disrespected by someone who WILL benefit from Dany's presence and resources. Sure, IF Dany defeats the NK, WF will be hers, so she does have interest in protecting them. But, regardless, Sansa is showing her ass because she's bitter Dany has the power that she wanted since she returned to WF. Her first question was valid, her second was her being snitty. We have no proof that Dany ignored her concerns, but clearly the plot point is important. Sansa also didn't mention anything about how "Queen Daenarys completely ignored my concern about our limited food resources."

Which means we need to let the story play out rather than assume Dany doesn't care. Next episode could have Dany pull food out of her ass. Then, what? "She should've showed more concern to Sansa's complaint and comforted her right away?"

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Sansa did her best. If there only had been someone around who could have come along on a dragon to protect the evacuation of Last Hearth and maybe do a bit of scouting. Sadly all dragons were booked for a Targ special outing to the best northern make-out spots.

Isn't the pro Sansa at all cost crowd stressing the fact that the North are afraid of dragons? So, now, the dragons should be used at the North's leisure? No one had any idea that that would happen. But, the smartest woman in all seven kingdoms should've foreseen this, right? And sent adequate protection with Lord Umber or suggest Dany protection one of the house of the North by sending her dragon.

But, also, it's more important to keep the dragons near than it is to go on a scouting mission.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Nanrad

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

Sansa being right about Cersei doesn't make her the smartest person her world. 

At this juncture, she's no less smarter then the rest, maybe not THE smartest ( he seems to be tripping still ) but she is above average, so saith GRRM. 

And Jon should consider something for the rear.

Between Cersei, Danny and Sansa, only she somehow managed to prepare, care for, shelter and have food for her people.

Cersei is - Let them eat cake... oh wait that's my desert, well they'll be improved when the dead come.

Danny is -  We need that food before Cersei gets it.....burn i,t burn it, all. 

Even if the food Sansa managed to save all burn up on the night of battle, she still gave her people at least 1 -3 days more chance of survival, hope, and possible rescue and by extension Danny's army too..

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Nanrad said:

Isn't the pro Sansa at all cost crowd stressing the fact that the North are afraid of dragons? So, now, the dragons should be used at the North's leisure? No one had any idea that that would happen. But, the smartest woman in all seven kingdoms should've foreseen this, right? And sent adequate protection with Lord Umber or suggest Dany protection one of the house of the North by sending her dragon.

But, also, it's more important to keep the dragons near than it is to go on a scouting mission.

Well I was mostly kidding since the idea that Sansa is now to blame for the massacre at Last Hearth too is really pushing it. But we can play this straight.

It makes no sense at this point to keep the dragons near - it's although not what has happened since the joy-ride to the North took them far away from Winterfell. Neither Jon nor Daenerys seemed to have any qualms at leaving Winterfell dragon-less for a while. And dragons like to roam, so using them for aerial reconnaissance is the smart move for several reasons.

The forces at Winterfell prepare for a battle and a possible siege. Knowing how far away the enemy is (i.e. how much time you have left) and from which direction he will advance is of huge importance. Also good to know - are his troops still concentrated in one column or is he preparing a pincer movement; is his vanguard near - are there stragglers (which a dragon could take out without much trouble)? All those things are possible without getting into javelin-reach. The only risk is to run  fly into Viserion - but Drogon and Rhaegal should be able to handle little brother. Last but not least:  putting the dragons to good use would also be good PR. Show those stubborn Northerners that your kids can do more than nibble on livestock.

I agree that the writers were probably planning the dragon joyride as the high-point for Daenerys and Jon but the optics were bad because it came off as ill-timed and irresponsible. Why couldn't they at least pretend there was more to their outing than simply having a bit of fun. Show those two at leaders who know what's at stake.  They could have sent them to check on Last Hearth - just to find the Night's King little grace note. (It's GoT of course chances that they arrive in time to save wee Lord Umber are zero.) 

Edited April 18, 2019 by MissLucas

[Andromeda]

10 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Does anyone else here worry that the ending of this show will effectively ruin REWATCHING this show? For example, if the Bran-/Night King theories are correct and everything that happens somehow ends up being 'something that happened before and always happens' like the Hodor / Wyllis thing, for me, as a viewer, that absolutely deflates the stakes of 7+ seasons of character decisions. How less impactful does Theon's betrayal of the Starks become if he's meant to do it, or if it had already happened (BTW, the lesson here is don't fuck with timelines, time travel never works out well). If the show ends with no one sitting on the iron throne, with J and D dead, or with the NIght King winning (ESPECIALLY the last), then does the show's palace intrigue on a rewatch lose all significance?

This is why I NEED THE BOOKS TO GET FINISHED ALREADY. I have more faith in Martin than I do B/W. 

I worry. I worry my faves will all die. I worry it will all be for nothing. I have taken heart that my faves are gathering together (finally) and ending up on the same team — Team Dany for the Win! I love everyone now on her/Winterfell's team. I will be crushed if too many of them die or a bad person takes the throne or the Night King wins.

One of my biggest thrills was seeing Tyrion make his way to Dany and join her cause. And now she has Varys, Davos, and Jon (!) and basically everyone is congregating at Winterfell. Personality conflicts aside, they're all on the same side. (Sansa, Sam — two more of my faves — I'm side-eyeing you...)

On the recent 60 Minutes GOT feature, GRRM made it sound more like the showrunners were going off and fulfilling their own vision for the end of the series. Does this give him an out to finish the books differently? And maybe that will be good if the show ends unsatisfyingly.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Well I was mostly kidding since the idea that Sansa is now to blame for the massacre at Last Hearth too is really pushing it.

Did I miss this?

If there's any blame it should fall on The Maester or young Umber's Councillor, it take maybe 3 days top for a raven to get to Winterfell, land trip even at 40 miles a day is almost 3 weeks and winter has arrived.

Sansa could then send what she had, even then; it's close. What other choice did Sansa have at that point, refuse and let them all die?

Then the anti Sansa base be screaming she's a vindictive bitch like Cersei.

The girl can't win.

[Nanrad]

Who’s blaming Sansa for Lord Umber’s death?

—-

Now, that I think about it, the insistence that titles ARE important, makes it even more bogus that Sansa’s disrespect is tolerated. If someone has a title in westeroes, that title is respected or, at least, should be unless they want to suffer the consequences.

Furthermore, to also argue that Dany’s title in WF shouldn’t be recognized because she doesn’t have the Iron Throne is bogus because that means Jon’s KITN shouldn’t be acknowledged. Jon as the KING acknowledged Dany’s claim to the throne as well as many other kingdoms. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Nanrad

[paigow]

On 4/17/2019 at 1:59 AM, Constantinople said:

Arya said Sansa is the smartest person Arya ever met. 

Syrio is / was smarter than Sansa.....

[Colorful Mess]

On 4/16/2019 at 11:11 AM, Eyes High said:

Davos said himself in this episode that you need to earn the Northerners' respect. You do not earn respect by being sweet and friendly when people treat you like shit; you earn it by demonstrating that you can't be intimidated. That's what Dany did. 

These people are starving and poor and the citizens of her country -- not rich,  arrogant, sexist slavers. She's just a bully now because of the power imbalance between herself and the people she threat-- excuse me, "intimidated." The boss who acts like an authoritarian bully to his employees may make his employees play nice to his face but they're mocking him behind his back and cant wait for the day he's fired. 

[Colorful Mess]

"She's come across some frosty people in her life, but she's been able to kind of get rid of them. She can't get rid of these guys.They just simply don't like her and how can you fight against that? You can't. That's a bitter pill to swallow because at this point her ego is at a place that doesn't handle that too great. But her love for Jon is the thing that allows her to take that breath and try--try--to make friends." -Emilia in the Behind the Scenes video

She doesn't really care about the North, she just wants Jon's approval. This is a toxic situation for Jon. He's trying to save his people while she'd be happy to get rid of them.

[screamin]

15 hours ago, Nanrad said:

Her not commenting on the food isn't her ignoring the issue of the food. She's listening to everyone's concerns, to which, Sansa takes the time out to throw a jab at Dany's presence there. For someone in her position, eventually, you do have check your subordinates about how they speak to you. Viewers are criticized for needing Sansa's vague warnings spelled out for them, when it's really we're asking for her to voice her thoughts clearly to Jon, but somehow we need everything surrounding Dany spelled out?

Dany's most powerful lord and erstwhile regent of the North said something with rather serious implications for her people's wellbeing - and Dany said nothing about it throughout the episode, much less DID anything about it. That looks like 'ignoring' to me.

You may say that we know Dany DOES care about her people, so we know she won't let them starve, but the North doesn't know it, and what the showrunners are 'spelling out' for them and us is that the new queen has responded to the North's concern with frightening displays and a sarcastic, menacing putdown, without reassuring them she cares about their problems. We the Viewers are being told that it's reasonable for the Northerners to think ill of their new ruler with the limited info they have and the first impressions she's giving, and that she's making a mistake in shrugging off their opinions and making no effort to win them over. 

And yes, I HAVE acknowledged that Sansa was unwarrantedly rude. I have even said she should have been publicly reprimanded at the council. But Dany fixating on Sansa's rudeness and ONLY that rudeness is a big mistake. Dany's getting warning signs from all over. The smallfolks' tense suspicion outside Winterfell wasn't caused by Sansa. Sansa wasn't even the rudest person at the council - that would have been Lady Lyanna, by far. Sansa did not make Lyanna do that. Dismissing and mocking the smallfolk AFTER Jon warned Dany it would take awhile for them to warm up to her is dismissing the idea that she needs to win them over at all, refusing to try to understand the reasons for their distrust beyond "They just suck and deserve to worry that they're going to be burnt where they stand by my babies." And dismissing Lady Lyanna without knowing who she is because she sucks, and that bitch Sansa especially sucks, and she will disregard anything that Sansa says no matter how important it sounds because she will only take advice or warning from people who kiss her ass to her satisfaction. She'll get Jon to do something about Sansa's rudeness and ONLY her rudeness because she's the queen, dammit, and nobody talks to her that way, regardless of whether what they have to say is vital or not. My point is, yes, Sansa took a petty jab at her which undermined her own message - but saying that Sansa's jab exonerates Dany from ANY responsibility for having to consider that message, even though it's being reinforced by many others besides Sansa, is going way too far.

I think it's no coincidence that another 'I'm queen, dammit!" moment is coming back to bite her in the ass - the burning of the Tarlys (which, BTW, Sansa also had nothing to do with).

Edited April 18, 2019 by screamin

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Syrio is / was smarter than Sansa.....

He's DEAD ! S1

[Constantinople]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Syrio is / was smarter than Sansa.....

Before facing Meryn Trant, perhaps Syrio should have taken one of the steel swords from one of the Lannister soldiers he disabled rather than continue to use the wooden sparring sword

[AnnaL]

2 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

"She's come across some frosty people in her life, but she's been able to kind of get rid of them. She can't get rid of these guys.They just simply don't like her and how can you fight against that? You can't. That's a bitter pill to swallow because at this point her ego is at a place that doesn't handle that too great. But her love for Jon is the thing that allows her to take that breath and try--try--to make friends." -Emilia in the Behind the Scenes video

She doesn't really care about the North, she just wants Jon's approval. This is a toxic situation for Jon. He's trying to save his people while she'd be happy to get rid of them.

Isn't it kind of funny how even coming out of her own mouth and still some people are trying to pretend that she acted just fine and whoever doesn't fall at her feet needs to be turn into a crisp.  

Maybe it would have been a good moment for Jon or Davos to tell Dany the little tale about how Jon and Sansa went from door to door around the north houses to find only disscontempt and attitude and they had to suck it up. They were their own people and were given the cold shoulder. This is just how northern people are, even to their own, let alone the Mad King's daughter. 

At this point Daenerys should have known that the reception was not going to be warm and instead of using her dragons to scared them into submission, she would have been better served by finding a place for her dragons far away from the small folk. Daenerys can be charming when she wants to be, but she didn't even bother to talk to them, all she did was let them know that her dragons (who have just scared them to death) were going to eat whatever they wanted and make veil threats about being respected or else. Now in this interview Emilia lets us know that if Daenerys could have gotten rid of them she would have but because they are Jon's people she can't . 

She sees herself and her savior (which she probably is) but these people do not know that. Wasn't Jon who told her that "when they get to know you they will love you for who you are"? this implies time, Daenerys has this intense need to be respected, loved, adored, so far it has worked because she has done something for the unsullied (liberated them) for the dotraki (showed them power) , she hasn't done anything for the north yet. Once she wins the war against the AOTD, they probably will come to respect and obey her rule, but no matter what she does she will always be a foreigner to them and she needs to accept this. 

[Sakura12]

Since they were all standing there waiting they knew the dragon Queen was coming. Did they expect her not to bring her dragons?

Also the Northerners don't believe in the threat Jon was telling them about. So he went to find an army that would help him. I don't think Dany is expecting to stay there all winter. They came to help fight and if they win they will leave and continue to Kings Landing to go after Cersei. We also didn't see the rest of the meeting. Dany could addressed the food situation. I would also think they brought food for their journey along with the dragon glass. 

Mostly I think the food situation was brought up just for drama since they rarely care about any other time. 

[paigow]

Was there a scene of Jorah meeting his niece cousin?

Edited April 21, 2019 by paigow

[MissLucas]

13 minutes ago, paigow said:

Was there a scene of Jorah meeting his niece?

Nope, in the words of Bran 'We don't have time for all this.'

[GraceK]

I thought this a pretty interesting, unbiased article. 

http://watchersonthewall.com/fighting-night-king-will-hard-coming-together-fight-night-king-might-harder/#more-172393

It actually softened my view on this episode a bit. I don’t agree with everything and I’ll always lean more pro Dany ( 🤣) but it definitely puts things in perspective in a bit on the Northerners end for me 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited April 18, 2019 by GraceK