S08.E01: Winterfell

[AnnaL]

10 hours ago, GraceK said:

And if she’s really as smart as everyone says she is, Jon marrying Dany keeps him in the south  and makes her Queen of  Winterfell  !!! It’s a win win. Dany  won’t deny her that if both Jon and Sansa ask. She’s reasonable. All she would want is Sansas fealty and loyalty, and BAM! Sansa is Queen in the North. Why not? 

Absolutely. 

Jon and Dany if they marry need to go to KL. Those two ultimately will have so much to do to even have time to worry about the North, no other king ever has. Jon can be king when she is in Mereen and turn into king consort when she is in KL.  

The North could be maybe not as an independent kingdom but with a sweet deal as Dorne or now the Iron Islands have, why not? 

My ideal ending would be those two in KL, hopefully with some good advisors (Tyrion, Varys. Misandei) please do take dragons, Unsullied and Dotraki over there. 

Sansa as the LOWF and Warden of the North, no more political marriages unless she can marry someone on her choosing from a minor house so if she ever has kids they can be Starks. I would also be fine if she decides that she needs no man and rules by herself and names Arya and her heir or maybe Arya's children with Gendry as her heirs. 

But I already know that this is GOT so there will be no happy endings for anybody. 😞 

[GraceK]

Thought this was hilarious 

[AnnaL]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

It’s not a burden, though.  A burden is something you can do without.  They desperately need Dany to win.  The Night King has a dragon; there is no way to do without Drogon and Rhaegal.

Wasn't it Davos who told Stannis that the Bolton army would not defeat him but winter and lack of food would kill his army?  

I don't think that is the issue though, the issue of food could have been easily solved if Daenerys didn't burnt loads and loads of food and seen them north instead. That actually would have required some insight though. 

Daenerys has loads of money, why hasn't she told the lords that food will be arriving as soon as it can be ordered, I mean food is a commodity up North in winter time. She must know this. 

[Minneapple]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

It’s not a burden, though.  A burden is something you can do without.  They desperately need Dany to win.  The Night King has a dragon; there is no way to do without Drogon and Rhaegal.

Well, we don't know. I mean I agree that having the dragons levels the playing field, but last season Dany had a three-dragon lead to the Night King's zero. Now she's down to a 2-1 lead and her dragons aren't eating very well. 

[domina89]

1 hour ago, dragonsbite said:

Is it possible that Bran sees that, to defeat the NK, Jon must be their leader? Bran's first real statements in the episode were about defeating the NK and putting aside the petty squabbles.

Also, regarding his bad timing of sending a bereaved Samwell to speak to Jon, clearly Bran is still suffering from a lack of empathy/sensitivity. His brain must be full of so much information that he can't process that as well as people's emotions (or his own).

Well I agree that Bran does seem to completely lack empathy, but is he really Bran anymore?  We don't really know what kind of ancient consciousness he has "downloaded" (for lack of a better word) as the TER and how that consciousness might be affecting his actions now.  I guess my point is- we can't be sure whose interests Bran is now serving.  He may just be moving the chess pieces to get things lined up a certain way to fulfill an agenda and it may not matter to him that people Bran loved might get hurt in the process.  Hopefully I'm wrong about that, but I've always thought that Bran was going to be central to the end game of both the series and the books.

[KungFuBunny]

14 hours ago, quarks said:

On a non-Sansa/Dany topic -

So, am I misinterpreting things, or did this episode (and the "About the Episode" bit from the producers) confirm that the Night King on the show is ALSO a Targaryen?

1) The producers said that only Targaryens can ride dragons - Jon can ride Rhaegal because he's a Targaryen.

2) The Night King can ride a dragon.

3) This is more of a stretch, but the spiral "artwork" the Night King seems to enjoy making with various body parts is kinda shaped like the spiral 3 heads of the dragon Targaryen banner.

If so, is this a show invention? I can't remember any similar indications in the books, although of course the Night King hasn't really appeared in the books and he doesn't have a dragon - yet. I can only hope that the book characters prove more intelligent than their TV versions and don't let the Army of the Dead get one.

The scene where the dragons sniff Jon and look at him while he;s kissing Danerys - was it more of a look as I can sense/smell you and recognize you having Targaryen blood? I think only Tagaryens can ride a dragon, but not all Targaryens ride.

I don't know the White Walkers history - is the Night King the first man made into a White Walker or do they die/taken out of commission thru war. Make me wonder if when Rhaegar was killed by Robert Baratheon at the Trident - did the white walkers get a hold of him and turn him - then somewhere along his journey he became the Night King. This is why the Night King can ride a dragon. Now this fight is really Rhaegar fighting his son and his sister.

The way the boy was killed and staged - the logarithmic spiral was shown in the cave drawings Jon and Dany found in the cave with dragonglass - I think made by the Children of the forest

Edited April 15, 2019 by KungFuBunny

[huahaha]

Amazing how much people are worried about Sansa and Dany being "warm" or "polite." I guess women have to manage unreasonable leadership standards even during the apocalypse.

[spaceghostess]

Just pondering the dragon-riding thing. We've only seen Dany ride Drogon, right? I was just wondering if Jon's ride was so wild not only because he's inexeperienced, but because Rhaegal isn't used to having anyone on his back. Dany's never expressed knowledge of Targaryen history (or myth or legend) on this subject on the show, has she? She just sees that her babies are comfortable with Jon, so she feels comfortable letting him give it a go. 

[screamin]

Regarding Sam being upset about his brother dying - it's true his bro grew up to be kind of a douche, but that's Sam's little brother. His care and adoption of Gilly's son shows that he'd never let Dickon's later behavior obliterate the affection he'd have had for him as a child.

[iMonrey]

Guys, am I the only one worried about the dragons? Dany said they were barely eating (only 18 sheep and 11 goats, the poor starving things), because they don't like the North.

I've wondered all along how dragons would fare in cold climates. Surely they are in the reptile family, and warm-climate creatures. I wonder if the North is proving to be too cold for them and it will weaken them or sicken them or something. 

There must have been a point to their not eating well and not liking the North.

[KungFuBunny]

18 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Glad they got Jon finding out the truth done in the first episode, now we can move on. 

Honestly have  no issue with Sansa and the North giving Dany the cold shoulder. They would’ve done the same to Cersei. They don’t know her and they already proclaimed their King. Jon isn’t wrong in bending the knee, but give them and Sansa time to warm up. As said above, you can’t just waltz in and proclaim yourself Queen and expect everyone to be happy about it, especially when they don’t know you. I also  caught Dany’s smirk when the dragons are flying over the people and they were running scared. 

Jon and Gendry have no idea about the cold blooded killer that Arya has become. 

Really really hope we get to see Ghost at some point in time. He’s missed. 

In regards to next weeks previews, I will wait to see how the scene plays out but Dany going on about Jamie killing her father is a tad hypocritical to me. 

Also is Cersei still pregnant? She was drinking that red wine and seemed a bit sad after Euron made a comment about putting a prince in her belly. She’s cold though, now she plans to kill Jaime also  

Yara is rescued yay!!

I thought she was pregnant and that's why she bedded Euron - so she can claim him to be the father if needed

[Nanrad]

20 hours ago, Advance35 said:

And I'll say it.  Sansa was right.  Whatever is "more important" Jon wants the North fighting AOD (and later Cersei, for his Queen) waltzing in and saying he handed over the crown the North gave him was a blunder.   As a result, some of his men left.

Men Sansa spent a lot of time catering too.  I felt Sansa's frustration.  If Lord Royce takes his Vale Forces and goes home, they are down that much more fighting men.

But because Sansa isn't smiling and waving pom poms, she's an evil B w/ an itch.  I have to roll my eyes at the circle jerk.

If you don't Yes Sir or Yes Mam Jon and Dany, your the story villain.

I don't see Sansa as the villain, I see her as misguided and angry (which is also valid). I see her being obsessed with ruling, so that no one ever has the power to hurt her again, which fair, I suppose. But, that's not her current reality. We've seen with other royals, which isn't simply unique to Dany, that if you disrespect them, you will pay consequences. Funny enough, I don't even see Sansa behaving differently if she were in Dany's shoes. I don't see Sansa allowing disrespect to roll off of her shoulders because she is all about getting her respect and people staying in their place. But, I forget, we must always be understanding of Sansa and her petulant behavior.

18 hours ago, Minneapple said:

If Dany had zero reason to go North...then she shouldn't have gone. But she's proclaiming herself queen and it's a queen's duty to protect her subjects whether they like her or not. 

Oh, so has no issues with protecting her subjects, but how Sansa is treating her, which she can deal with Sansa how she sees fit. I see Sansa avoiding the fate of others due to being related to Jon and her council advising her against it due to optics. 

18 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think we could argue all day about Sansa vs. Dany but heres something to chew on: if Samsa is wary it's because she has been severely traumatized by Cersei, Joffrey, Ramsay Bolton and Littlefinger. Shes not going to trust her brothers gf just because. 

Dany on the other hand has always been supported and propped up by people. Let's see how well Dany reacts to repeated rape, her father beheaded in front of her, etc.

Yea...many others have explained how wrong this line of logic was and is. Dany has suffered a lot in the beginning. Nothing was handed to her, but she clawed her way to get where she is. This also isn't a matter of trust, but not adding to the firing of you already distrustful people with a devastating war on the horizon.

17 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Why should she do more?  

As anti as she is, she worked to keep what troops they had at Winterfell, supporting Jon's cause.  She kept her mouth shut though she probably wanted to APPLAUD when Lyanna Mormont went in on Jon.   And surface subservient.  Does Dany insist she MEAN it?  

Jon just thinks everyone is going to follow him blindly.  Maybe it's a Targaryen trait.  He didn't even tell them that IF they survive the AOD, Dany and Jon will expect them to march on Kings Landing aka another war.

Sansa's opinions are never factored into Jon's decisions.  So she's becoming more transnational.  Pointing out realities that should be considered. 

Lack of food will be a real problem but he and "Her Grace" shrug and go off on a magic carpet, I mean, Dragon ride.

I thought Sansa was smart to not direct her question of food at Dany.  She directed it at her Lannister Hand.   Sansa loathes Dany, but again, she didn't speak out about Jon's ill advised kneeling, not publicly anyway.   

And I thought it was a fair question.   Sansa budgeted for the North.   She didn't plan on having to stretch limited resources even further.   A pity Dany and her entourage of yes-men didn't bring anything to contribute.

Jon doesn't think everyone will follow him blindly, he thinks that people will take his concerns and the threats posed to them as seriously as he does. The whole KL thing is irrelevant at the moment because they're just trying to survive the AOTD. That's what Sansa and the Northerners aren't getting.

The other problem is that Sansa brought it up publicly. It's not a bad question, it was bad to ask it publicly. Because she could've still had the conversation in private, and then say to the people, "we're working on ways to feed Dany's army too." Sansa's actions only endears her to the North, but causes division among her ally in Dany. 

Not to sound rude, but Jon literally doesn't have to listen to Sansa's opinions. He does so because she is his sister. I would say it isn't as if she is open and transparent with him most of the time, but there will be excuses why it's valid that she isn't, despite wanting Jon to run everything by her.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Nanrad

[spaceghostess]

46 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Guys, am I the only one worried about the dragons? Dany said they were barely eating (only 18 sheep and 11 goats, the poor starving things), because they don't like the North.

I've wondered all along how dragons would fare in cold climates. Surely they are in the reptile family, and warm-climate creatures. I wonder if the North is proving to be too cold for them and it will weaken them or sicken them or something. 

There must have been a point to their not eating well and not liking the North.

You are not. It was really odd that Dany didn't mention the other obvious reason they're not eating, which is that they're in mourning for their sib, duh.  But I've long been convinced they're doomed in general, just because of the greater ramifications of their continuing to exist in this world's political, cultural, social, what-have-you, climate.

If I had my druthers, they'd survive and Dany would be like "Okay, I'm so proud of you and I love you so much but you're adults now, and we agreed that after graduation you'd have to get your own place or pay rent here." She'd pack them off to live and hunt in some remote, wild landscape where they'd encounter few people, but lots of elk or whatever (and yes, I'm totally hand-waving the wackadoodle effects two humongous predators would have on the food chain of wherever they settled. Maybe they'd be nomadic and thus less disruptive to the ecosystem(s)? Whoops, said I wasn't going to go there).

But so anyway, I think they'll be sacrificed for dramatic/symbolic/thematic purposes. And I will cry, cry, cry. This type of thing is why I'm kinda glad Ghost hasn't shown up. Because I'm sure he's also marked for death and I can't with that.

Edited April 15, 2019 by spaceghostess
OMG, grammar!

[Andromeda]

10 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

Didn't Robb once set Grey Wind on a lord who was disrespecting him, resulting in said lord losing his fingers? And was hailed as a strong, badass leader.

But he had a penis.

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

I thought she was pregnant and that's why she bedded Euron - so she can claim him to be the father if needed

I think Cersei has a tumor. Or she's hit the change of life... Nah, tumor is better. I trust the prophecy that she will only have three children. And the tumor thing is taken from our own history, so it's the first thing I thought of when Cersei announced she was preggers again. 

Mary I’s phantom pregnancy

An heir-raising experience

"Some medical historians suggest that she had an ovarian tumour or cyst, which mimicked the symptoms of pregnancy; others suggest she actually miscarried but couldn’t face the pain. Most likely Mary was peri-menopausal. Her inability to accept the fact that it was likely too late to have a baby led to what is perhaps the most famous case of pseudocyesis in the literature."

Edited April 15, 2019 by Andromeda

[Nanrad]

Can we circle back to how Dany was supposedly cold for revealing that she killed Sam's father and brother?

I'm not sure what other better way she could have told Sam to lessen the blow. She was kind for not allowing Sam to believe they were alive or misleading him to believe someone else killed them. The fallout would've been much bigger if she hadn't been honest from the start.

Was Dany supposed to cry? 

She was taken completely off guard finding out that she killed Sam's brother and father, but she decided to be honest because she figured he deserved that much.

[KungFuBunny]

13 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Also...that moment when you realize Bran had been sitting by that gate waiting for Jamie to show up for the whole episode. 

That's why Bran didn't want to tell Jon about his real parents. He's not giving up his spot as first in line to be seen by Jaime.

My question: Is there a detachable chamber pot under that mobile chair? And was there some poor servant who came by every few hours to empty it?

Edited April 15, 2019 by KungFuBunny

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

My question: Is there a detachable chamber pot under that mobile chair? And was there some poor servant who came by every few hours to empty it?

Bran: I'm the Three-Eyed Raven now, bitches! I don't do.

Edited April 16, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, AnnaL said:

Wasn't it Davos who told Stannis that the Bolton army would not defeat him but winter and lack of food would kill his army?  

I don't think that is the issue though, the issue of food could have been easily solved if Daenerys didn't burnt loads and loads of food and seen them north instead. That actually would have required some insight though. 

Daenerys has loads of money, why hasn't she told the lords that food will be arriving as soon as it can be ordered, I mean food is a commodity up North in winter time. She must know this. 

Main point WRG to food: Sansa's not responsible for procuring  food for Danny's army, that's Jon and Danny's job. Sansa's job is to get WF and the north ready, and get them to WF for safety and with plenty of food for their houses and extra to pool for emergency.

How did Dany's army arrive so healthy with no food ?

They had to forage for it.

[Growsonwalls]

I think at this point there aren't many good choices for the ultimate leader of Westeros. 

Cersei - ruthless, selfish, horrible

Dany - a great conqueror, not a great ruler

Jon - his parentage will have to be known for him to hold any weight as a ruler

Sansa - a good manager of Winterfell, but not a ruler

Tyrion - dont think he wants to rule

Jaime - Ditto

Arya - a great fighter but no desire to rule

So the writers have six more episodes to develop characters enough where we'd be okay with them winning the ultimate GoT. Right now it's slim pickings.

[Nanrad]

Dany is a bad ruler in the sense of wanting to conquer to reclaim her "rightful" throne. When she no longer has to conquer, it will give her more time to understand the seven realms opposed to trying to conquer them. I believe Jon will counterbalance her ruling style and offer insight that she'll consider. (That's assuming Jon doesn't take is rightful place)

[Sakura12]

Yes, Jon had to convince Dany about the WW, but once she saw them for herself she agreed to help him without him bending the knee. He did that on his own later. And he has still not convinced the North about the WW threat. That's why they are still being petty and cold to the army that's come to help them. Once that threat is at their door they are going to be grateful that Dany, her dragons, her army and her weapons are there. Jon should really tell them that she saved a group of them and lost one of her dragons. So it's not like she hasn't sacrificed in this war. 

Bran could help explain everything too if he wasn't so busy trying to be in the exact spot for Jamie to see him. I guess that means Bran is still in there. 

I think Jon need to say right now there is no King or Queen, North or South, no Starks or Targayens or Lanisters, there is only the living vs the dead. 

[AshleyN]

Gotta say, I have a hard time caring about this whole "but what about the FOOD!" thing when we've spent seven seasons watching a bunch of giant armies traipsing around endlessly with it hardly ever being mentioned until it serves as a convenient plot point. Like someone said earlier, Dany's been managing to feed her giant army on Dragonstone, which can't have been easy, so I have a hard time believing that she suddenly forgot they need to eat.

Also, I find the whole thing kind of amusing because IIRC correctly a decent amount of Jon's story in the last book was him making arrangements to ensure the Watch will have enough food for the winter. But that's BookJon, who was actually allowed to be smart and strategic.

Edited April 15, 2019 by AshleyN

[Growsonwalls]

Just because this never is not funny:

[CherryMalotte]

Since we are in a video mood...there's just something about screaming meat wheel that makes me laugh.
 

[WatchrTina]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

There must have been a point to their [the dragons] not eating well and not liking the North.

I assumed the dragons were off their feed because they were grieving the loss of their brother.

4 hours ago, AshleyN said:

Gotta say, I have a hard time caring about this whole "but what about the FOOD!" thing when we've spent seven seasons watching a bunch of giant armies traipsing around endlessly with it hardly ever being mentioned until it serves as a convenient plot point.

Yeah I had to laugh when the Unsullied Army reappeared in the story at Kings Landing after having been stranded at Casterly Rock (on the opposite coast) where the food stores and been emptied and their ships were set on fire.  They say an army travels on it's belly (i.e., being fed adequately is key) and yet somehow, the Unsullied made it back to Kings Landing.  Where did they find sufficient food as they marched eastward across the width of the entire country.

Edited April 16, 2019 by WatchrTina

[KungFuBunny]

18 hours ago, GraceK said:

I’m genuinely wondering the truth about Lyanna and Rhaegar. What if they DID tell someone? Does it seem logical that Lyanna would let her brothers and father die? Is she that cold and selfish? What if they did send a raven, or tell Varys, or even Aerys the truth? I wonder if somehow miscommunication happened and that’s what kicked off the war? 

I think the people around the "court" knew. The whispers were around when Rhaegar gifted her with a wreath/rose at the tourney. They all knew something was up and wanted to keep their current positions safe or were jockeying for better positions.

I think Rhaegar was married to one of the Sands people. So they didn't want her or her children to be set aside for the next wife. I think the Lannisters had that wife killed along with  her children.

Robert thought he would marry Lyanna and justified his killing of Rhaegar as a raper of women claiming she didn't go willingly, Robert conspired with the Lannisters to take the crown

I think the Tyrells, Lannister and many other families didn't want Rhaegar with a Stark even if she was highborn.

[WatchrTina]

I just watched a second time and had a couple of new thoughts.

So . . . am I the only one who finds it unlikely that Cersei would send Bronn to kill Tyrion and Jaimie?  Does she even KNOW Bronn?  We know the two actors have NEVER had a scene together because they are former lovers who had a bad break-up and, apparently, won't consent to act opposite one another.  I suppose we can pretend their characters HAVE met in Kings Landing at some point but clearly they are not close. Cersei is pregnant with Jaime's baby.  Do we REALLY think she'd send the sell-sword who has a close personal relationship with Jaime to be his assassin?  Do we really think she'd send ANYONE to kill him?  She still loves him.  I think we need to consider the possibility that Qyburn has gone rogue and sent Bronn on this mission without Cersei's consent.

Also can we just take a moment to think about the absurdity of Qyburn giving Bronn a wagon of gold BEFORE he does the deed he's being hired for? That's unrealistically trusting of Qyburn.  And what is Bronn going to do with his loot while he makes the trip to Winterfell?  The wife and estate he was promised were taken back, weren't they?  (Can someone remind me why that was?) So where is he going to stash the goods while he makes the trip?  That whole plot line seems contrived to come up with something for Bronn to do and to get him out of Kings Landing and into the action up north.

Now can we all just take a moment to admire how cool that scene was at the Last Hearth when the two groups from the Wall nearly attack one another until Beric lights his sword?  The cinematography of that scene was outstanding.  And that really is a handy trick of Beric's -- handy for illuminating dark places and also convenient for setting alight zombie-based wall decorations.

Another moment I noticed from the Last Hearth adventure was that Tormund hesitates for a moment when they come to a dark passageway and Beric walks by him and leads the way into the dark.  Tormund's reaction is great -- his face says "Well, shit.  I can't let the little one-eyed guy be braver than me."  (Remember that Beric has lost his red priest -- if he dies again, he's not coming back.)

Edited April 16, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Andromeda]

18 hours ago, merrick715 said:

I don't know. Time and distance are concepts that seem to be fluid in Westeros.  Maybe the Night King grabbed Petyr's jet pack.  😉

So is communications. Hubby and I call it Raven Internet. 

That poor Umber kid on the wall... Sansa should have sent him with a couple of grown guards (and the horses he asked for.) About those legs in the spiral... Did the Night King kill them all, turn them into wights, then cut off their legs? If so, there are a legless wights hopping around up north...

On Bronn... I see him as planning to take the chests of gold and head north. If the north falls and the brothers die, he'll go back to KL. If not, if the north wins and heads for KL, he'll switch sides.

ETA: And he'll bank the money (they have a  banking economy) somewhere along the way, or bury it like all good pirates do. Also, I think the payment was for serving Jamie. Cersei was saying "There's more where that came from."

Edited April 16, 2019 by Andromeda
verb tense

[Nanrad]

Watching the ep again, I'm still baffled how Dany was entitled.

Dany stands backs and allows Jon to greet his family before then stepping in and introducing herself. She compliments Winterfell and Sansa before Sansa snarks at her. Dany doesn't do or say anything. During the council meeting, Dany silently sits by and says nothing as the Lords talk amongst themselves. Sansa then starts complaining about feeding Dany's people, the Dragons, and then saying, "What do dragons even eat?"

Dany snakily replies and drops the issue.

IN PRIVATE, Dany discusses Sansa's behavior and literally says, "She doesn't have to like me, but she does have to RESPECT me as her queen." 

Even in every day life, that's how it is: you may not like your boss, but you do have to respect them.

Dany is used to not being liked, but no one, maybe outside of Jon, in her position or similar to it, tolerates disrespect, end of story. 

I'm not sure how her wanting to be respected is even remotely seen as being entitled. Also, Dany smiling at her dragons wasn't because people were running away and screaming. Dany loves her dragons and have always been proud of them. She actually started smiling before people screamed. 

I don't even see how Jon bending the knee is even seen as doing so because of love. Jon is all about duty and honor. He'd never give away the North or screw over literally thousands of people for love. He is in love with her, but he isn't guided by his feelings. And Dany lost one of her dragons to the NK to help out Jon against the advice of her council. She's proven herself to Jon and, for someone who doesn't want to lead (Jon), I can understand why he'd bend the knee to someone who risked and lost a very value thing to her (you know, the thing she views as one of her children).

So, Dany's entitled, but she's not entitled. She lost her child helping out Jon, and then went to the North to further combat the threat and all she wants is some basic respect. That's it. She can take not being liked, but she fought too hard to get where she is to be casually disrespected by someone who serves her (even tho Sansa doesn't want to).

Edited April 16, 2019 by Nanrad

[Happy Harpy]

From what I've seen on social media:

Main complaints about season 7: "Too rushed, too much action, not enough character moments and pay-off!"

8x01: full of character moments and pay-off.

Same people: "Too sloooow, not enough action !"

 

[benteen]

8 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I just watched a second time and had a couple of new thoughts.

So . . . am I the only one who finds it unlikely that Cersei would send Bronn to kill Tyrion and Jaimie?  Does she even KNOW Bronn?  We know the two actors have NEVER had a scene together because they are former lovers who had a bad break-up and, apparently, won't consent to act opposite one another.  I suppose we can pretend their characters HAVE met in Kings Landing at some point but clearly they are not close. Cersei is pregnant with Jaime's baby.  Do we REALLY think she'd send the sell-sword who has a close personal relationship with Jaime to be his assassin?  Do we really think she'd send ANYONE to kill him?  She still loves him.  I think we need to consider the possibility that Qyburn has gone rogue and sent Bronn on this mission without Cersei's consent.

Also can we just take a moment to think about the absurdity of Qyburn giving Bronn a wagon of gold BEFORE he does the deed he's being hired for? That's unrealistically trusting of Qyburn.  And what is Bronn going to do with his loot while he makes the trip to Winterfell?  The wife and estate he was promised were taken back, weren't they?  (Can someone remind me why that was?) So where is he going to stash the goods while he makes the trip?  That whole plot line seems contrived to come up with something for Bronn to do and to get him out of Kings Landing and into the action up north.

It would definitely make more sense for Qyburn to want Jaime dead on Cersei's behalf than Cersei.  I can totally see Cersei pulling a plan like this to kill Tyrion but not Jaime.  She could have had the Mountain kill Jaime when he announced he was heading North but didn't. 

At the same time, Qyburn is very loyal to Cersei and he seems to be one of the only people Cersei has any real regard for.  Would he really go rogue like that?  Maybe if he really thought he would be protecting Cersei but still...he knows what she means to him.

Hiring Bronn to kill two men he's close to seems like something Book Cersei would do because Book Cersei is an idiot.  TV Cersei is starting to go down the Book Cersei path too.

[screamin]

6 hours ago, Nanrad said:

She compliments Winterfell and Sansa before Sansa snarks at her. Dany doesn't do or say anything. During the council meeting, Dany silently sits by and says nothing as the Lords talk amongst themselves. Sansa then starts complaining about feeding Dany's people, the Dragons, and then saying, "What do dragons even eat?"

Dany snakily replies and drops the issue.

IN PRIVATE, Dany discusses Sansa's behavior and literally says, "She doesn't have to like me, but she does have to RESPECT me as her queen." 

I think you have the key to the problem there; she ignores completely the larger question of feeding her army that Sansa brought up, makes a vaguely threatening putdown that mocks the fear she's SEEN the Northerners have of her dragons, and, in your own words, "drops the issue."

No, wait, there's actually TWO issues brought up at that council meeting. One was how to get enough food for the North to last through the winter. Yes, the NK is by far the more immediate threat, but it will be little comfort to the North if Dany beats the NK and then decides to winter her army at WF, eating their winter stores while they starve. A few reassurances on that point would go a long way. The other issue brought up is the anger at the loss of their own chosen king, and their fear and distrust of the queen, as manifested in the rudeness of Lyanna's furious outburst at Jon, and in a lesser form in Sansa's rudeness when speaking of the food shortage. It is illuminating to note which issue Dany chooses to ignore as unworthy of her attention, and which issue she addresses at least briefly in her threatening little wisecrack, broods over, and comes back to later to order Jon to do something about it.

I don't think there's a huge amount of merit in the fact that she came to Jon in private to tell him to put a leash on Sansa. She met her Northern Council for the first time. She saw clearly that Jon, while upset at the Northerners' reaction, was not surprised at the format of the meeting, the lords speaking their minds freely and Jon not reprimanding them for doing so. This is obviously business as usual for the North. If Dany wants to change it, it's better if she does it herself publicly, where all the lords can see it and know that the new sheriff in town has a new style they have to adapt to. And since she can see that there is a legitimate worry about food, it would be best if she make some public attempt to reassure the Northerners that she will take care of the issue. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. If she'd publicly reprimanded the people who'd been rude and said she would expect more respectful address in the future, and then reassured everyone that the food situation was something she would be sure to alleviate, she would make the impression of being a stern but fair ruler. Instead, she snarked in a way that told the Northerners she didn't really care if the dragons that have been flying freely over the countryside and scaring people eat anything or anyone that moves. Yes, it's a joke, but I doubt the scared people would find it funny, especially since even We the TV Viewers don't know if the dragons have been trained NOT to eat humans.

Nor do I find much merit in Dany's telling Jon in private to make his relatives behave. She's left him without power (as Lyanna pointed out, a Warden without land is not a lord, or anything else, really) so all the currency Jon has to spend is his family affection and threats conveyed secondhand from Dany. She's putting him in a rotten position.

Edited April 16, 2019 by screamin

[YaddaYadda]

On 4/15/2019 at 5:34 AM, GraceK said:

I’m genuinely wondering the truth about Lyanna and Rhaegar. What if they DID tell someone? Does it seem logical that Lyanna would let her brothers and father die? Is she that cold and selfish? What if they did send a raven, or tell Varys, or even Aerys the truth? I wonder if somehow miscommunication happened and that’s what kicked off the war? 

I wouldn't count on the show to provide the answers you're looking for. 

I seriously doubt she and Rhaegar were running away together. I think Aerys found out about her being the mystery knight at Harrenhal and sent men to have her arrested and things just happened afterward. 

[Misplaced]

On 4/15/2019 at 2:30 PM, dragonsbite said:

On a more interesting topic, can we speculate on the weapon that Arya asked Gendry to create? What was that? A long knife? A short spear? Why would she want something that comes apart? Or was her drawing just implying that it's part dragonglass and part (metal/wood) shaft?  I thought it was designed to come apart -- like the knives soldiers added to their rifles in previous times.

Yup it sorta looked like a bayonet, but the only reason you'd need a bayonet is if you had a rifle.  No sense in putting a bayonet knife on a .... sword.  I wondered if it wasn't some crazy kind of flechette "gun" that could fire dragonglass flechettes.  On the other hand I also wondered if it wasn't some kind of Darth Maul double-ended lightsabre thingy, so she could screw a dragonglass knife onto the end of her Valerian steel knife.

TL;DR - dunno but it's probably gonna be cool.  

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

I think you have the key to the problem there; she ignores completely the larger question of feeding her army that Sansa brought up,

Sansa's question would have been legit (crucial, even) if the AOTD's arrival was a matter of months or years, in other words if the Wall was still standing. It's a matter of days.

When people say that Daenerys' armies give the North a chance, it doesn't mean a chance of being unscathed. It means a chance of not being wiped out. It shows that Sansa doesn't realize the real problem: either they're all dead in a few days, and no one will need food; either there are survivors thanks to Daenerys' armies yet less fewer mouths to feed, by the thousands. In case of easy victory (LOL)? Daenerys would go South in order to fight Cersei; since even if the latter respected her word, the truce would last only until that victory.

Sansa didn't see the AOTD, it's normal in a way that she doesn't get the gravity of the threat. It doesn't excuse her rude and antagonistic behavior, which created needless difficulties within the alliance and prevented a constructive discussion from the get-go.

34 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I wouldn't count on the show to provide the answers you're looking for. 

I seriously doubt she and Rhaegar were running away together. I think Aerys found out about her being the mystery knight at Harrenhal and sent men to have her arrested and things just happened afterward. 

I don't think it will provide them, either. For me, Lyanna sent word somehow, but it got lost or intercepted. If she wanted to keep her father out of it, she tried to reach Brandon who was on his way to Riverrun. And since LF was in Riverrun at the time...LF's little smirk when Sansa said that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her aunt made me think he knew more than he said. The possibility died with him on the show; but it might be one thing that D&D "left" for GRRM to reveal in the books.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[screamin]

26 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

In case of easy victory (LOL)? Daenerys would go South in order to fight Cersei; since even if the latter respected her word, the truce would last only until that victory.

In the wintertime? It's proverbial folly to start a war campaign in the winter, when the take from foraging diminishes and weather becomes deadly to armies camped in the field. Dany might be innovative and do it anyway (though the Dothraki and the Unsullied might not be suited to a long winter campaign) but it isn't a thing that goes without saying. It's quite possible for Dany to decide, after defeating the NK, to winter her armies in WF and recover their fighting strength on the winter stores that the Northerners have considerately gathered for them. It would greatly reassure the Northerners if she SAID that wasn't her plan.

As for the notion that the NK is going to kill enough people that the victorious remainder will DEFINITELY have enough food to last through the winter - remember, we've already been told the winter looks like it's going to be worse than any in living memory. It's open-ended - no one can predict how long it's going to last, so nobody can be sure the quantity of food will last through it even if the North is decimated by the NK. So it would be nice if the queen made some reference to thinking about relieving the food problem beyond snarking that her dragons will eat whatever they want.

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

Sansa's question would have been legit (crucial, even) if the AOTD's arrival was a matter of months or years, in other words if the Wall was still standing. It's a matter of days.

I hadn't realized this bothered me until now, but sending Ned Umber back to last Hearth was actually a bit insane in retrospect.

They knew the Wall had been breached and that the NK has an undead dragon now. Last Heart is the first castle south of the Wall and is logically the first one to fall, but they sent the kid back anyway to continue packing his foodstuff and his people. 

It's a total nitpick, but wouldn't it have been more logical to send a raven and just tell the people to get what they can and evacuate, that they would be met with wagons and horses down the kingsroad or something? The whole reason Jon decided to let the wildlings through the Wall was to deny the NK fresh bodies for his army. 

Also, I don't know if we're keeping count of the houses that are going bye bye, but the sole heir of House Umber (in the show) is now gone and his house with him.

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

I don't think it will provide them, either. For me, Lyanna sent word somehow, but it got lost or intercepted. If she wanted to keep her father out of it, she tried to reach Brandon who was on his way to Riverrun. And since LF was in Riverrun at the time...LF's little smirk when Sansa said that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her aunt made me think he knew more than he said. The possibility died with him on the show; but it might be one thing that D&D "left" for GRRM to reveal in the books.

I don't know about the show since I tend to just block a lot of things, but by LF is not at Riverrun when this happens. He was sent back to the Fingers. It was after his duel with Bradon and he got really badly injured by him and Lysa becoming pregnant.

Whatever he knew on the show, we won't know now since they killed him off.

Edited April 16, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[Happy Harpy]

41 minutes ago, screamin said:

In the wintertime? It's proverbial folly to start a war campaign in the winter, when the take from foraging diminishes and weather becomes deadly to armies camped in the field.

Precisely, in wintertime it's better not to stay in the North, especially since Daenerys is going South for the war. She can retreat in Dragonstone, where she'll be best protected, and icy roads are not a problem for her re: dragons.

Again, Sansa didn't ask a constructive question and she didn't even address Daenerys directly. She snarked and berated, from the moment Daenerys set foot in WF. Daenerys made show of restraint, as far as I'm concerned.

You believe that beggars can be choosers? As you wish, but I disagree.

Spoiler

The North is wiped out anyway.

10 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I hadn't realized this bothered me until now, but sending Ned Umber back to last Hearth was actually a bit insane in retrospect.

It is, but I think it's one of those problem with no good solution anyway. I can't say it's because plot demanded it, since if they wanted Ned Umber dead at the Last Hearth they just had to have Sansa announce that he wrote asking for more wagons.

7 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't know about the show since I tend to just block a lot of things, but by LF is not at Riverrun when this happens. He was sent back to the Fingers. It was after his duel with Bradon and he got really badly injured by him and Lysa becoming pregnant.

Whatever he knew on the show, we won't know now since they killed him off.

Isn't he? I thought that Lyanna disappeared between the moment he got injured and Lysa becoming pregnant, and he was recuperating at Riverrun at the time. The timeline is quite muddy there, so I must have confused.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, screamin said:

I think you have the key to the problem there; she ignores completely the larger question of feeding her army that Sansa brought up, makes a vaguely threatening putdown that mocks the fear she's SEEN the Northerners have of her dragons, and, in your own words, "drops the issue."No, wait, there's actually TWO issues brought up at that council meeting. One was how to get enough food for the North to last through the winter. .

There's no reason to believe that Sansa's attitude was based on legitimate concern, even assuming that the food issue is a legitimate concern (and it really isn't for the reason others have stated). She obviously dislikes Dany and was just scrambling for any excuse to take her down a peg. Dany could tell that Sansa was just being a petulant brat and put her in her place accordingly.

And really, if Dany had let Sansa whine and bitch and backtalk her without publicly smacking her down, what message would that have sent to the Northerners? That she's some unserious lightweight who can be pushed around and who needs to grovel for their approval? Dany got her leadership lessons from the Dothraki, who value strength above all, and she learned well.

Quote

The other issue brought up is the anger at the loss of their own chosen king, and their fear and distrust of the queen, as manifested in the rudeness of Lyanna's furious outburst at Jon, and in a lesser form in Sansa's rudeness when speaking of the food shortage. It is illuminating to note which issue Dany chooses to ignore as unworthy of her attention

Not really. Since Jon is the one who freely chose to kneel, he's the one who should answer their concerns and endure the resulting bitching. That is rightly beneath Dany's attention. 

Quote

She met her Northern Council for the first time. She saw clearly that Jon, while upset at the Northerners' reaction, was not surprised at the format of the meeting, the lords speaking their minds freely and Jon not reprimanding them for doing so. This is obviously business as usual for the North. If Dany wants to change it, it's better if she does it herself publicly, where all the lords can see it and know that the new sheriff in town has a new style they have to adapt to. 

By smacking down Sansa and issuing a casual threat, that is exactly what she did.

Dany's warning Jon so that she doesn't have to take further steps if Sansa continues to act out. Since Jon executed someone for insubordination, he should get it. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Eyes High

[GraceK]

I love how people are defending Sansas every single word and snarky comments but Dany says one thing, ONE thing in rebuttal that’s clearly just a joke and she’s an evil queen!!! 😂 geez the bias is strong. Let Sansa worry about food. The north has to provide something. Dany has come with mountains of dragon glass for weapons, 2 trained armies to help Fight and dragons with firepower to burn wights and all Sansa can bitch about is why didn’t Dany also supply more food? Come on. Glover already peaced out, they have barely any fighting men except for the Vale... they would be sitting pigs without Danys weapons and armies. Most of them are gonna die anyway so maybe be thankful that you have a fighting chance and worry about how much food your gonna need when you count the survivors. Bitch at Jon in private if your mad but smile and be grateful to the Queen who is risking everything she has to help and wrestle the throne away from Cersei Lannister, the bitch who ruined your life. I mean priorities!!! 

this is what I mean. What would they have done if Dany didn’t come? Great Jon would KITN, Sansa would have plenty of food and they would all die. Aces!

this whole thing is stupid and Sansa is being shortsighted and petty.

also, on another note, for those who think Dany only loves power, no one found it interesting that she’s the one who said she and Jon could stay by the waterfall for a thousand years and never be found? I think that gives a real honest insight to her character and what she really desires above all.

Edited April 16, 2019 by GraceK

[Minneapple]

14 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

There's no reason to believe that Sansa's attitude was based on legitimate concern, even assuming that the food issue is a legitimate concern (and it really isn't for the reason others have stated). She obviously dislikes Dany and was just scrambling for any excuse to take her down a peg. Dany could tell that Sansa was just being a petulant brat and put her in her place accordingly.

Sansa has been talking about storing food and preparing for winter since last season, so it's clearly a legitimate concern for her. 

Neither lady came off well in that scene, IMO. Sansa shouldn't have said anything like that in public and Dany shouldn't have made a snarky remark. I was actually surprised Dany just sat there through the whole thing except for her snarky remark. I expected her to make some speech about how she's looking forward to being a queen for all, especially the North, blah blah blah.

Then there's Tyrion, casually announcing to all that the Lannisters are coming. Yeah, that'll go over well in the Room Full Of Northerners, Tyrion. 

This is what annoys me about these scripts. They spent so much time and effort on CGI and prosthetics and costumes and sets, but the scripts often make everyone look like a moron. 

[screamin]

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

There's no reason to believe that Sansa's attitude was based on legitimate concern, even assuming that the food issue is a legitimate concern (and it really isn't for the reason others have stated). She obviously dislikes Dany and was just scrambling for any excuse to take her down a peg. Dany could tell that Sansa was just being a petulant brat and put her in her place accordingly.

I disagree. We've seen that Sansa and the lords have been laying in food and worrying about the severity of winter long before this episode. They weren't doing it just to throw it in Dany's face - the show was conveying that it WAS a legitimate concern. The fact that Sansa dislikes Dany does not mean her concerns are about food are therefore invalid.

I've seen some people say that Dany's army supported itself in Dragonstone and the Reach, and therefore they can be considered self-supporting by the showrunners' fiat and Sansa therefore is making shit up out of spite when she says food's a problem. Problem is, neither Sansa nor Dany know that they're on a TV program, so Sansa definitely doesn't know that the showrunners will be making sure Dany's armies are fed and she's making a fuss over nothing.

Viewers can make what they see on the screen plausible by fanwanking that Grey Worm's army lived on what food they confiscated from the local peasants while they fought their way back to Dany, and that on Dragonstone Dany's army did the same from the peasants nearby. All that was enemy territory, and it is therefore fair game under the rules to raid them and take whatever food is there for themselves. This will not be the case for Dany's army in WF.

Quote

Not really. Since Jon is the one who freely chose to kneel, he's the one who should answer their concerns and endure the resulting bitching. That is rightly beneath Dany's attention. 

It isn't, though. Despite the 'smackdown' you said she delivered by talking about the feeding habits of her dragons at the council, she brooded over it and decided (despite your calling it a 'smackdown') that she hadn't been clear enough at all, and decided to send Jon to Sansa to clarify what she REALLY wanted.

Quote

By smacking down Sansa, that is exactly what she did. Dany's warning Jon so that she  doesn't have to take further steps if Sansa continues to act out. Since Jon executed someone for insubordination, he should get it. 

So you acknowledge that the 'smackdown' of wisecracking about dragons eating whoever they want wasn't clear in establishing that she wanted a change in the way Sansa was acting toward her, let alone the entire court. All that little remark of hers about dragons did was show she wasn't interested in addressing the concerns about food that Sansa brought up and the whole North is worrying about, or the concerns about how dangerous her free-ranging dragons are to humans, which is also something she knows the North is worrying about.

If she wants a change in the way the council is managed, she should make a clear reprimand of what behavior is not acceptable AT the council and what she expects, instead of just making a vaguely threatening remark about what her dragons might be capable of to feed themselves (which currently would mainly be hazardous to the poor peasants tending their flocks in the fields, who aren't invited to the council anyway.) It made her seem indifferent to the North's problems, which is not the first impression she should want to convey. And sending her powerless flunkey Jon to convey what she couldn't be bothered to tell them herself isn't likely to improve matters.

[Eyes High]

25 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Sansa has been talking about storing food and preparing for winter since last season, so it's clearly a legitimate concern for her. 

In general, yes, but feeding Dany's armies and dragons is not a long-term issue, again for the reasons that others have stated. Sansa just wanted a reason to go in on Dany. She couldn't attack Dany about Dany wanting to help save them all from the AOTD, because even Sansa would know that that would look ridiculous, but she could, evidently, whine about feeding the armies and the dragons, so that's the tack she picked. 

If there were some indication that Sansa was trying to have an open mind about Dany but was worried about the food issue, that would be one thing, but the writing was clear in 8x01 that Sansa just hated Dany. Her petulant bitchiness to Dany from the jump and her contemptuously sneering to Jon privately about the "Targaryen queen" puts the lie to any claim that her bitching and whining about feeding the armies was about anything other than finding an excuse to take potshots at Dany. 

I disagree that both Sansa and Dany came off poorly. Sansa was the one who looked pointlessly nasty and petty, and the writing showed it. But then, Sansa has been consistently bitchy, nasty and petty for the past few seasons, so I don't know why anyone expected anything else.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Eyes High

[Minneapple]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

 If there were some indication that Sansa was trying to have an open mind about Dany but was worried about the food issue, that would be one thing, but the writing was clear in 8x01 that Sansa just hated Dany.

She can hate Dany and be worried about food. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[GraceK]

Also, what did Dany do that was so bad this episode? She has done everything she promised. She has given Jon everything he asked for, Dragonglass, armies, dragons. She was very restrained, she held back on arrival and didn’t intrude when Jon greeted his family, she was very courtly and polite to Sansa, she stayed restrained  in the meeting and only made that one snarky remark. She walked around with Jon and addressed him privately about Sansas attitude , which is her right because that’s her boyfriend ( ugh I hate that term) and she has a point about respect, but she didn’t say in public or try to degrade Sansa in public, she had a very sincere and loving dragon ride with Jon....thanked Sam for saving Jorah and then when faced with the reality of the Tarleys, manned up to it immediately and faced Sam head on with the truth and you can see she felt bad when seeing his reaction. She didn’t even try to offer false comfort because how can you apologize for something like that? I thought she was  actually pretty classy in this episode. 

But she’s still getting shit flung at her because apparently she’s not doing ENOUGH. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

 And Any criticism labeled at Sansa as always is met with irrational defense like she shits gold. Come on. No one is perfect. She came across like Regina George this episode. She doesn’t even know her yet and already she’s throwing shade, being bitchy, telling Jon “ she prettier than the mad king “, giving her side eye.... are you kidding?? What lady acts like that??? Catelyn would never pull that shit. That’s Cersei Lannister all the way.

Edited April 16, 2019 by GraceK

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

She can hate Dany and be worried about food. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Worrying about feeding Dany's armies is not a legitimate worry. She was speaking out of spite.

7 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Also, what did Dany do that was so bad this episode? She has done everything she promised. She has given Jon everything he asked for, Dragonglass, armies, dragons. She was very restrained, she held back on arrival and didn’t intrude when Jon greeted his family, she was very courtly and polite to Sansa, she stayed restrained  in the meeting and only made that one snarky remark. She walked around with Jon and addressed him privately about Sansas attitude , which is her right because that’s her boyfriend ( ugh I hate that term) and she has a point about respect, but she didn’t say in public or try to degrade Sansa in public, she had a very sincere and loving dragon ride with Jon....thanked Sam for saving Jorah and then when faced with the reality of the Tarleys, manned up to it immediately and faced Sam head on with the truth and you can see she felt bad . She didn’t even try to over false comfort because how can you apologize for something like that? I thought she was  actually pretty classy in this episode. 

But she’s still getting shit flung at her because apparently she’s not doing ENOUGH 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

It's absolutely ridiculous. Dany's apparently supposed to take nastiness and disrespect from Sansa and the Northerners with understanding and utter sympathy and treat their petulant, whiny bullshit as if it were heartfelt, serious, and totally legitimate. She also needs to answer their concerns about Jon kneeling to her, because that's apparently her responsibility and not Jon's. And while she's at it, she needs to find a way to have her armies and dragons fight for the Northerners without them requiring any food at all. And lastly, it's her fault that Sansa doesn't like her, so she needs to be super accommodating and kind because Sansa has completely understandable and totally reasonable motives for despising her and treating her like shit on sight.

The worst part is that if Dany had endured all of it quietly, people would be bitching about what a spineless pushover she was and how she needed to earn respect by standing up for herself. The girl cannot fucking win.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Eyes High

[Hana Chan]

20 hours ago, huahaha said:

Amazing how much people are worried about Sansa and Dany being "warm" or "polite." I guess women have to manage unreasonable leadership standards even during the apocalypse.

They have to be effective leaders. An inability to form alliances without hand holding and seeding descent in order to preserve your own position of authority is, to me, not a mark of great leadership.

[GrailKing]

17 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think at this point there aren't many good choices for the ultimate leader of Westeros. 

Cersei - ruthless, selfish, horrible

Dany - a great conqueror, not a great ruler

Jon - his parentage will have to be known for him to hold any weight as a ruler

Sansa - a good manager of Winterfell, but not a ruler

Tyrion - dont think he wants to rule

Jaime - Ditto

Arya - a great fighter but no desire to rule

So the writers have six more episodes to develop characters enough where we'd be okay with them winning the ultimate GoT. Right now it's slim pickings.

Cersei - true

Danni - True

Jon - good,  missing pragmatism, he does use more emotions then the others.

Sansa - partially True, she has the pragmatism, Jon lacks

Tyrion - WRONG, he likes the game, he liked ruling and the power, he said so himself to Varys.

Jaime - may not want to rule, but he be decent at it.

Arya- True.

[Minneapple]

Just now, Eyes High said:

Worrying about feeding Dany's armies is not a legitimate worry. 

So the Dothraki and the dragons and the Unsullied don't eat food? Even if it's just for a couple nights before the AoTD is on their doorstep, that's a lot of food that's needed.

Shrug. We disagree. It happens. I'm tired of recognizing that tree.