S14.E17: Game Night

[TexasGal]

Sam and Dean race to help a friend in need. Meanwhile, Mary is concerned for Jack’s well-being, and Castiel enlists help from Jo/Anael to track down a miracle.
 

Airdate 2019.04.04

[gonzosgirrl]

Is it possible that Nickifer is actually done? I'll believe it after 15x20 airs and he hasn't been back.

Called it that Dean wouldn't be able to make the Mousetrap work. On the bright side, he kicked some demon ass.

Since when is Sam the guy who can't be trusted not to kill someone? That is when he's not single-handedly figuring out all the lore and translating the language of the week. LOL, these writers.

And the Mary 2.0 retconning is off the charts. On the bright side, she's maybe dead?

[Jediknight]

Lucifer was playing the long con with Nick.  He didn't want to possess Nick, he wanted Jack's blood so he could get in Jack's head.  That jerk.

[Lady Calypso]

I guess we're supposed to hate how Jack ended Nickifer but I'm not. First off, Nick being able to resurrect Lucifer from the Empty was too easy to begin with. But also, even though I would have preferred Sam to end Nickifer for good, at least he seems to be gone for good. Sorry Mark Pellegrino, I like you as an actor, but your time was up.

Dean got to kick some ass. Meanwhile, after 14 seasons, Sam gets beaten by another human. I don't like how the brothers sometimes lose fights in the stupidest ways possible. Also, Sam was angry, but he wasn't going to suddenly kill Nickifer by setting eyes on him. 

Dare I pray that Jack accidentally killed Mary and can't resurrect her conveniently? Nah, she's probably fine. 

[ILoveReading]

The writing for this show summed up in a tweet

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Is it possible that Nickifer is actually done? I'll believe it after 15x20 airs and he hasn't been back.

Spoiler

LMAO he's already in the preview before the hour is even over. Mark Pellegrino has dirt on somebody at the CW - believe it.

[Lastcall]

Well that sucked. Sam getting beaten to death by Nick....NICK! Dean and mousetrap. The ending which in no way did Mary die. The one minute of...is Pellegrino really gone...answered two minutes later by the promo. Only good thing was the Dean fight. 3 more episodes....just 3 more until J2 get involved.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Lastcall

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Lastcall said:

Only good thing was the Dean fight.

That was the best Dean fight in seasons. Too bad it was surrounded by the rest of the writing for him. I can replay that scene on repeat tho.

[trudysmom]

Dean kicking ass like Dean does was the only good thing about this.  I agree with Jediknight that Lucifer wanted Jack, and from the looks of things, he'll get him.  Hopefully Mary is dead.  I can't recall how many times I said (yelled) "BITCH" during this episode.  Tell Sammy he's good man, yes, but only vaguely allude to your absence with Dean and say you're 'closed off'.  Allow Dean to agree because it makes you both look bad.  Pity for Nick, yelling "stop, no stop", being all torn up over they way Jack flambeed him.  URK.  

If Jensen is upset over his character being screwed over, then Jared has just as much reason to be.  He let Nick get the best of him, again, tried to hide in the CAR? and stopped just shy of choking the life out of him.  Had a gun in his face and would not shoot no matter how loudly I yelled for him to.  Boy won't listen.  

[Katy M]

31 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

The writing for this show summed up in a tweet

Well, apparently the problem was with Sam's phone because Dean left his phone behind and told Jack to have Sam call him on his spare.  Still stupid, but at least they did seem to account for it.  Maybe Dean has Verizon and Sam has AT &T.

[SueB]

‘Well THAT escalated quickly!’ - Ron Burgundy

Intense. Seriously. If I wasn't so in love with this show I’d wait til the season was over so I could binge the last three episodes in one gulp.

Quick thoughts:

It sure looked like the end of Lucifer coming back, I hope so.

Sammy, you cannot die from a blow to the head.  You get head trauma every other week.  I refused to accept this is the way you will ever die.  I also liked how Sam was ready to gut Nick on the spot.

Oh Dean.  That look when Sam was back alive. Again.  Way to rip it right out of me.  Still.  I swear Sam/Dean brotherly bond love is like a drug.  And we got a big dose with that scene. Sam calling Dean to him with the car honk. Dean freaking out over Sam’s injuries. Sam trying to get out last words.  Dean’s relief when Sam was okay.  I don’t CARE if it has been done before.  It’s intense and I take it like a drug hit. ‘Hi! my name is SueB and I’m addicted to Supernatural.’   Note: Dean had the game working when he told Mary and Jack they were ready to play.

Cas. CAS. Secrets suck.  ‘This can only end in tears.’ -Bartok (Anastasia)

Aneal - There’s hope for you yet.  Also, those earring were soooo worth an evening with Castiel.

Jack - Nope.  Nopeity Nope.   Someone should have made him watch Mr Roger YouTube videos.

Mary- you’re smarter than this. LIE.   Now you are dead (my guess). I did love she and Dean’s bonding time.  And she and Sam as well.  Which is why I think she’s dead.

Nick- can you just die already??? I’m glad you suffered.  Horrible thing to say but kinda heartfelt on my part?   *should I confess these evil thoughts of mine? it’s Lent... I need to evaluate if evil thought towards fictional characters count.*

An intense episode  I’ll watch again about 10 times to pick up all the details.  We are definitely in a 4-Part finale.   

Edited April 5, 2019 by SueB

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, SueB said:

Cas. CAS. Secrets suck.  ‘This can only end in tears.’ -Bartok (Anastasia)

Does Cas really have a secret.  They know Jack's soul is limited. I don't think Cas has any knowledge of Jack using his powers that S&D don't have.  I guess he's just supposed to be smarter because he's an angel. But, honestly, when has Cas had any intuition about anything ever?    The only secret he has is the one that has apparently been dropped like a hot potato.  Unless the Empty is just waiting until we have forgotten also.

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

Jack - Nope.  Nopeity Nope.   Someone should have made him watch Mr Roger YouTube videos.

And maybe when someone all-powerful asks you to leave him alone you should listen.  Maybe?

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

Mary- you’re smarter than this. LIE.   Now you are dead (my guess). I did love she and Dean’s bonding time.  And she and Sam as well.  Which is why I think she’s dead.

I think she should have lied also, but I can kind of see why she didn't.  And, no she's not dead.  Or if she is she soon won't be.  

12 minutes ago, SueB said:

Nick- can you just die already??? I’m glad you suffered.  Horrible thing to say but kinda heartfelt on my part?   *should I confess these evil thoughts of mine? it’s Lent... I need to evaluate if evil thought towards fictional characters count.*

Nope.  Evil thoughts toward fictional characters are absolutely fine.  That way you can get your aggression out and have only good thoughts for real people.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Wynne88]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Since when is Sam the guy who can't be trusted not to kill someone?

He had the same attitude with Brady, back when Crowley and Dean trapped him if I recall.

[Ninamags]

Maybe that Nick was an hallucination by Jack. 

He looked burnt up enough for me. 

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

He had the same attitude with Brady, back when Crowley and Dean trapped him if I recall.

Brady was a demon though.  Nick is supposedly human - although he's actually a reanimated corpse that Crowley somehow spelled to contain Lucifer until it was rever... oh, who the fuck knows.  So stupid.

[Wynne88]

Do they still make Jiffy Pop popcorn?  I haven't seen that stuff in years.

[tessathereaper]

2 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

Do they still make Jiffy Pop popcorn?  I haven't seen that stuff in years.

Jiffy Pop - I get no commissions from this. 🙂

https://www.jiffypoppopcorn.com

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Lastcall said:

The one minute of...is Pellegrino really gone...answered two minutes later by the promo. Only good thing was the Dean fight. 3 more episodes....just 3 more until J2 get involved

MTE.

I can't wait until this season is over. Watching this show has now just become more painful with every subsequent episode since they killed Michael off.

It's just so hard watching Jensen's talent wasted in such ignominious fashion.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Myrelle
Revision

[ZennyKenny]

I have so many questions. And every one of them are some variation of "WHY????"

And pretty sure that most of them can be answered with "because Dabb".

[enaiowen]

Shut. Up. Mary.

I think that pretty well sums it up for me.

Edited April 5, 2019 by enaiowen

[Bergamot]

I actually find it easier now to watch the show, knowing that its end point has been determined. I can tell myself, "This too shall pass." Also it is comforting to me to know that Jensen and Jared agree with me that the show was once a beautiful thing, but that it has come to the point where it needs to be put out of its misery. Case in point being these last few episodes.

The Jack we saw at the end of the episode with Mary? That's the Jack we should have gotten from the beginning. Kind of like the terrifying, all-powerful little boy in that episode of the Twilight Zone. And then the story could have been about how the Winchesters deal with the situation. Rather than making Jack into the protagonist, with everything that happens being about his journey, and Dean and Sam as just supporting characters for that story.

I did like Dean fighting the demons! I also liked the part where Nick talks to Dean about how the two of them are no longer completely human, after having been the vessels for Lucifer and Michael. Mainly because I thought that the show was never going to even mention MichaelDean again, but was going to pretend that it never happened. (But it did happen, and I remember it, and he was awesome!)

Of course it would have been nice if in that scene we could have found out something about how Dean feels about what happened with Michael. Maybe even give him a line or two to say something about it!  Does he feel that it changed him in some way, as Nick implied? Did he ever feel the attraction that Nick felt for Lucifer? How is he handling his guilt over what Michael did to the AU hunters? Forget all that, though -- the show isn't interested in that, only in what Jack is going through.

Oh, and I also liked seeing Anael again. She actually had some layers to her; in a way I found her to be the most interesting character of the episode.

[ZennyKenny]

OK I think I've managed to gather all my WTFs in an organized manner. And to be fair, some of these may have legit answers, but anyways:

Why didn't Dean and Mary ask Nick what he wanted to talk about right then and there, seeing as how time was of the essence?

Why the hell would smart Dean ever in a million years bring Nick back to the bunker? 

Why did Anael know that Jack had no soul?

Why wasn't Cas just honest with the boys that he was, if not certain, was worried that Jack had no soul?

Why did everyone seem to think that "glows in the presence of God = you can use it like a telephone to talk to God?"

Why the hell didn't Sam just shoot Nick as soon as he revealed the real plan?

Why was Sam suddenly so weak and scared of Nick that he has to hide from him in the car?

Why did Nick forget that he just had a gun pointed at him that he knocked out of Sam's hand and just use it to shoot Sam?

Why did Nick surround himself in a circle of salt, seeing as it's been well-established that that's how you keep Supernatural entities AWAY from you, and he clearly wanted Lucifer to be, you know... NOT away from him?

Why did Lucifer take like 30 years to reach out to Nick who was only a few feet away? Was he groggy? Was the, you know... anti-supernatural entity circle of salt slowing him down maybe?

Why wouldn't Mary shut the hell up with her crocodile tears about how she should have been there more for the boys?

Why wouldn't Mary shut the hell up and let Jack do to Nick what Sam should have done back in episode 11?

Why wouldn't Mary shut the hell up and let Jack deal with his emotions?

Seriously. this episode should have been called "There's something about Mary, and that something is that she needs to shut the hell up".

[S Cook Productions]

1 minute ago, ZennyKenny said:

OK I think I've managed to gather all my WTFs in an organized manner. And to be fair, some of these may have legit answers, but anyways:

Why didn't Dean and Mary ask Nick what he wanted to talk about right then and there, seeing as how time was of the essence?

Why the hell would smart Dean ever in a million years bring Nick back to the bunker? 

Why did Anael know that Jack had no soul?

Why wasn't Cas just honest with the boys that he was, if not certain, was worried that Jack had no soul?

Why did everyone seem to think that "glows in the presence of God = you can use it like a telephone to talk to God?"

Why the hell didn't Sam just shoot Nick as soon as he revealed the real plan?

Why was Sam suddenly so weak and scared of Nick that he has to hide from him in the car?

Why did Nick forget that he just had a gun pointed at him that he knocked out of Sam's hand and just use it to shoot Sam?

Why did Nick surround himself in a circle of salt, seeing as it's been well-established that that's how you keep Supernatural entities AWAY from you, and he clearly wanted Lucifer to be, you know... NOT away from him?

Why did Lucifer take like 30 years to reach out to Nick who was only a few feet away? Was he groggy? Was the, you know... anti-supernatural entity circle of salt slowing him down maybe?

Why wouldn't Mary shut the hell up with her crocodile tears about how she should have been there more for the boys?

Why wouldn't Mary shut the hell up and let Jack do to Nick what Sam should have done back in episode 11?

Why wouldn't Mary shut the hell up and let Jack deal with his emotions?

Seriously. this episode should have been called "There's something about Mary, and that something is that she needs to shut the hell up".

OmG. Lol. Although I did like this ep, I do have to agree with a lot of this. 

I also agree with pretty much everything SueB said too (except the Nickifer part. I know I’m the only one but I think Mark P is a great actor and I generally like what he does). 

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

Why the hell didn't Sam just shoot Nick as soon as he revealed the real plan?

Why was Sam suddenly so weak and scared of Nick that he has to hide from him in the car?

It depends... unfortunately I didn't get to see the episode, and OnDemand isn't giving it to me at 2AM as it has done in the past (Booo!), but did Jack heal Sam, and is that how he lost his soul (or did he lose it last week)? Because if the answer is the former - i.e. that Jack healed Sam and then lost his soul - well, then that's your answer.

(I hope that's not the case and that isn't the answer, because I'm tired of Sam being set up to do dumb things, so that other things can happen in the plot... that then become Sam's fault.)

[catrox14]

There is so much wrong with this episode I hardly know where to begin. 

The biggest WTF moment was the goddamn amulet that Cas is all like "I know what this is"....JFC no Cas knew it was important to Dean and that he needed it to find God, it wasn't just a thing. And I hate that damn thing but the LOLcanon was too much here.

Mary can just STFU about so grateful to spend all that time with her boys. She didn't do that a fucking all.

Why is Mary so upset that Jack tortured Nick. I was actually on Jack's side here.  It's so dumb.  Mary had no problem with jack using his powers to complete obliterate the angels in the AU and going after Michael. 

This is such inorganic fucking storytelling as to be annoying.

I did like Jack being this way and they should have done this with him from the jump. 

So, if they can summon something out of the empty, maybe they should just bring AU Michael back to fight Jack. I mean that would be fine with me.  Like OG!Bobby said, if they're gonna be stupid, they might as well be smart about it.

Suddenly Anael is one step from God by being Joshua's aide?  LOL...okay....

This was both boring and annoying.  Even Jensen and Alex couldn't save this. I think Jack is a terrible character but Alex does the best he can with Jack.

I'm just....sigh...

Edited April 5, 2019 by catrox14

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, PinkChicken said:

that first sentence lol... thats why I dont have a comprehensive post on it here yet.

I will say tho that even though I wasn't one clamoring for the return of the samulet before shows end; that I'm still hoping it didn't/doesnt work because its a cheap imitation one -> and in this case where an imitation isn't even necessary to bring it back (not that I expect these writers would meta at themselves that hard).
Maybe it was the right idea but Sam/Dean still has the real one that they need to use instead.

I just don't want Chuck back.  Chuck is not God, and I refuse to acknowledge it.  So, no, no, no, no, no.  And, did I metion not happening.

I kind of liked this episode, though, so I'll go to my corner and wait to be stoned.

[SmokeIfyougotem]

Did anyone notice jack yelling at somebody to leave him alone at the end of the episode? I have 2 theories:

1. Michael is laying dormant in jack and fighting to take control

2. Luci can communicate with jack now that jacks blood was used in the ritual nick did. (This seems most likely to me)

[Bobcatkitten]

I had one major problem - Jack, the most powerful being, can just read Nick's mind. Even Cas can do that. So I had trouble getting past that since they should immediately have been able to know where Donatello was and what Nick's plan was. 

Other than that though, man did I love that fight scene with Dean. Badass Dean is my favorite. And Jensen killed the scene where he is trying to keep Sam conscious. The way he spun away to hide his face/emotions when Sam was okay - wow. 

I had trouble understanding what Jack did that was so bad to Mary. He is a homicidal maniac who was trying to bring back Lucifer. I have no problem shooting his ass, beating his ass, frying his ass. 

[Aeryn13]

Sooo much Nickifer and Jack. There are simply no words to express how much I don`t care about them. 

Mary finds time to say something nice to Sam again and in two Seasons has never paid a compliment to Dean. She had the perfect set-up to say something nice to him as well and reject his attempt to make her feel better by denigrating himself. But of course that would be too much to ask, Please be dead and gone. 

Sam is now the answer guy for everything. At least Dean got a badass fight scene. 

The mousetrap scene, eh, a stupid throwaway joke. 

And seriously a fake-out death scare for Sam. It`s ridiculous at this point for any of the brothers. I don`t even care about the acting in such scenes, they create nothing but boredom and zero emotional impact for me.  

Season took an insane downturn with episode 14 and it didn`t start well to begin with. 

[mertensia]

I am completely with Jack. Nick needs to be dead. He will never stop trying to free Lucifer or go after the boys. He would happily sacrifice every person on earth to get Lucifer back.

No wonder Cowley thought demons were morons. Thinking they could beat Sam and Dean. Wanting Lucifer back.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t even care about the acting in such scenes, they create nothing but boredom and zero emotional impact for me.  

OMG, this. I was seriously sitting there thinking just frickin die already so NougatSue can come and fix you. And sorry, but I've never seen gasping/gurgling as a side effect of dying from a head injury. It might be on the list of symptoms, but it didn't work for me. Maybe they were trying to write to Jared's strengths?

I sincerely hope Mary is dead. Like, sincerely. But also sincerely, fuck you, Dabbernatural for giving Sam the 'good man' moment, while Dean gets to remember he got his cold and hard nature from his mother. Which he so, so, didn't and is nothing like the Ice Queen in any way, shape or form, so fuck you forever.

Sincerely.

[ILoveReading]

Why were Sam and Mary fighting to save Nick (other than Mark P having compromising photos of the writing staff. It's the only explanation).  He would never stop trying to bring back Lucifer.

Sam was perfectly okay with Dean shooting the guy in episode 13 so why would he draw the line at Nick.

Basically bad things happened since once again people didn't listen to Dean.  He should stop wasting his breath, tell every one his family to 'f- off, and clean up their own mess' and walk away.  We already know that no on would really miss him.

[Myrelle]

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

And seriously a fake-out death scare for Sam. It`s ridiculous at this point for any of the brothers. I don`t even care about the acting in such scenes, they create nothing but boredom and zero emotional impact for me. 

I still like watching Dean fake die.  Jensen is much better at it to me. But yeah, Dean wringing his hands over Sam, or really any other character on the present show, and in any way, has become utterly yawn-inducing to me, too-but mainly because I don't care about any of those other characters, like at all-not because Jensen isn't still bringing it.

All I have to say is Thank God! this show is ending soon.

Heh. I'm making that my new mantra.

[SueB]

Well I DEFINITELY think there's more going on than what we saw.  I did a second watch, SURE that Nick was actually Lucifer -- and now I'm not sure -- but they've really muddied up the waters to keep us guessing.  I think that's on purpose.  So, here's my second thought thinky thoughts; TL;DR in bold.

Nick or Lucifer? Who exactly was Mark Pellegrino playing?

• The case for Lucfer is pretty strong IMO.  Nick's posture, his attitude is psychotic but different than Lucifer.  RIGHT from the jump, MP's character was calling Mary "Mama Bear" - that's a Lucifer term. He called Jack "my son" and really gave a shit about Jack -- Nick NEVER cared about Jack before.  He sang to Sam.  Yes, ALL of these could be Nick just 'channelling' Lucifer memories - but it sure felt more authentic Lucifer than Nick.
• The case for it being Nick is also strong.  MP's character seemed pretty damn desperate to GET to the thing coming out of the black.  And he didn't have an anyone watching. BUT that could be Lucifer channeling Nick, setting the stage.
  • What abouts for Lucifer:
    • Why did he actually bleed? Because he was in an Angel Trap in the dungeon and he wanted to keep the Nick personal going so he didn't heal himself when out.
    • Why didn't Jack recognize his father? No good answer.  Could fanwank that Jack's mental state and potentially residual 'Dad' in Nick has always been a thing. Jack DID spot the angel grace in the syrnge but he also was surprised Mary did not, he may think some things are self-evident.
  • What abouts for Nick:
    • There was a THING coming out of the empty that was Lucifer - what was that?  How about a 'light show' for Jack to use his powers?
    • How could Nick have known Jack would give him his blood?  He didn't. But perhaps he thought he could provoke Jack into punching him (he did).
    • A bloody shirt, a salt circle and some Latinating and you get out of the empty?  IDK.  That's a tough one.  But Blood leads to Blood is a time-honored spell.
• IF it was Lucifer; then it was all 'lights and sound effect' to get Jack to go darkside.  Lucifer let himself be burned and can insta-heal. 
• IF it was Nick; then he's either dead or Jack will revive him out of remorse baseed on what May said.

Bottom Line; That MAY have been Lucifer.  If so, there are questions not answered but I think it is more likely that Lucifer staged the thing to get Jack to go darkside. And if Jack DID kill Mary, his surrogate Mom, then that's enough to tip him over IMO.

Jack's Soul Status?  Gonzo.

• Aneal said it flat out - Cas knows it's gone and he's desperate for a solution.  
• Nick implied it was gone after talking to Donatello.
• Jack DID use helluva lot of Angel grace fixing girl townie in the previous episode.  He may have used it up until it's nearly gone.
• Jack was clearly faking it in multiple scenes.

Bottom Line:  I think Jack's soul was gone at the start of the episode.  If there was a scrap left, that's gone too after probably killing Mary

Edited April 5, 2019 by SueB

[Aeryn13]

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Why were Sam and Mary fighting to save Nick (other than Mark P having compromising photos of the writing staff. It's the only explanation).  He would never stop trying to bring back Lucifer.

Sam was perfectly okay with Dean shooting the guy in episode 13 so why would he draw the line at Nick.

Basically bad things happened since once again people didn't listen to Dean.  He should stop wasting his breath, tell every one his family to 'f- off, and clean up their own mess' and walk away.  We already know that no on would really miss him.

Answering in BvJ.

Quote

Jack DID use helluva lot of Angel grace fixing girl townie in the previous episode.  He may have used it up until it's nearly gone.

But that`s grace, not his soul. Since he got Michael`s grace, he doesn`t have to feed on his soul anymore to keep himself alive or use powers. Using the soul was only in lieu of grace. So if he burned it out, it was in killing Michael. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Aeryn13

[Myrelle]

16 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

So if he burned it out, it was in killing Michael. 

Yup.

This.

[SueB]

28 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Answering in BvJ.

But that`s grace, not his soul. Since he got Michael`s grace, he doesn`t have to feed on his soul anymore to keep himself alive or use powers. Using the soul was only in lieu of grace. So if he burned it out, it was in killing Michael. 

I meant soul. Because they seem to imply every time he uses his powers he risks his soul.  Its why he asked Mary’s permission to use them. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I meant soul. Because they seem to imply every time he uses his powers he risks his soul.  Its why he asked Mary’s permission to use them. 

I think that was because he promised not to use them, they put that in the previouslies. And that was because they were/are once again worried how much of a danger a fully-powered Nephilim can be. But they don`t affect his soul, they didn`t before. He was only using his soul as interim grace aka a power source when he didn`t have any. Now it`s fully separate again. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I had one major problem - Jack, the most powerful being, can just read Nick's mind. Even Cas can do that. So I had trouble getting past that since they should immediately have been able to know where Donatello was and what Nick's plan was. 

Angels can only read minds when it is convenient to the plot.

32 minutes ago, SueB said:

The case for Lucfer is pretty strong IMO.  Nick's posture, his attitude is psychotic but different than Lucifer.  RIGHT from the jump, MP's character was calling Mary "Mama Bear" - that's a Lucifer term. He called Jack "my son" and really gave a shit about Jack -- Nick NEVER cared about Jack before.  He sang to Sam.  Yes, ALL of these could be Nick just 'channelling' Lucifer memories - but it sure felt more authentic Lucifer than Nick.

I think he was channeling Lucifer, or even had a direct link to him. He knew that Lucifer was awake in the Empty, and didn't he say that Lucifer told him the spell to bring him back?  We know that Lucifer was apart from Nick at the end, so it doesn't much make sense that he would/could have been inside him before Nick cast the spell.

[ILoveReading]

Honestly, I don't' see any difference between Nick and Lucifer lately.   I think MP is playing them pretty much interchangably.

Imagine how good Jensen would have been in this storyline if Michael had left Dean with some kind of craving.

[starfishka]

This episode wasn't too bad if you don´t care about plot holes (i do) or care about Nick/Lucifer or Jack (I don't). 

[tennisgurl]

Maybe I lost a few slices of my soul over the years, but I thought that killing Nick was one of the smartest things that Jack has ever done. Really, Sam should have shot him in the head the second he started cackling about how he and the demons were plotting to bring Lucifer back. Its not about him deserving death, its about how this guy is a clear and present danger to the whole world, and if he is still alive, he can keep trying to bring Lucifer back, and has his vessel, he has the ability to do just that, which would create huge problems and probably get tons of innocent people killed. Yeah killing someone in cold blood sucks, but what exactly are the other options here? What other ways are there to deal with this, Mary? Nick isnt even a good guy anymore, what exactly is the ethical quandary here? They kill people without a lot of hand wringing, so why is this so different? Its all good when he wastes random monsters and angels who are just mooks, but the serial killer trying to bring about massive destruction for his own ego? Him we have to save?

So is Mary really most sincerely dead? Because that sucks for the guys, but I am just fine with her child neglecting ass being gone for good. Just shut up Mary, you are literally helping nothing and no one yelling at Jack about how messed up he is, and then getting right up in his face when he is clearly freaking out with power! And of course she gives Sam the "good man" thing while she cant even throw Dean a freaking "nice shirt, Dean" or some shit. And they give her the line about being closed off like its supposed to make us understand her, give me a freaking break. And being grateful to have time with them? Yeah, thats why she hardly bothers to even call them back, and takes any opportunity to spend time with any random person who isnt them!

I did like seeing Dean kicking some ass and being competent, and even giggled at him getting pissed off at Mousetrap, a game that is WAY harder than it has any right to be. Although that sure makes Sam getting his ass kicked by Nick of all people to be even more laughable. 

The Cas plot was decent, and it was nice seeing Anael again. She has some real layers to her, she seems to really want to help people...while also making money as well. Its possible to do something for multiple reasons after all. All kind of pointless, but nothing offensive or annoying, unlike everything else going on. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by tennisgurl

[sarthaz]

Normally, I hate everything, so I'll just post some positives:

- Dean kicked some demon ass by himself.

- Sam immediately kicked Nick's ass, but was only bested when he showed mercy and took a rock to the skull

- There's a tiny chance we're going to ditch both Mary and Nickifer.

[PAForrest]

IF for the love of Chuck this is the end of the Nickifer storyline, I'll accept his wanting to house Luci again as a power trip reason for all the boredom this plot generated over the season - even though there is no way Nick should ever have survived in the first place, and the whole retcon was lame from the get go. But this has got to be it - done, finished, it sleeps with the fishes. And I had no problem with Jack frying Nick's ass. He totally deserved it.

Jack doesn't have a soul. And? Apparently Donatello is fine without it - another annoying retcon. And Jack is an angel besides, so ... doesn't really need one anyway. The problem is there are no rules anymore. It's just whatever sounds cool or is the laziest route to get to wherever that week from the writer du jour.

Anael was solid - certainly the best thing about the Cas plotlet.

Dean's fight with the demons was awesome, because we so rarely get to see Dean do anything like that anymore, what he's supposed to be good at.

Mary once again pimping to Sam how good and awesome he is, while steadfastly refusing to do the same with Dean, EVER, even though the perfect opportunity to do so was right there in the car, is crap and continues to look like some lousy BTS mandate that simply makes everyone look bad.

No Dean, you and Mary are seriously NOTHING alike. Mary lying about enjoying every day she gets to spend with the guys? Bitch, please. How about all the days you could have spent with them the last three years, yet willfully and selfishly chose not to? Not buying it for a hot second.

As for the end, sadly I don't think Mary is dead. I think Jack just cornfielded her, or something along those lines. I could be wrong, but it would be a very anti-climatic way to get rid of her.  We'll see.

Edited April 5, 2019 by PAForrest

[Katy M]

If Mary wanted Jack to stop frying Nick she should have pulled out a gun and shot him (Nick).  End of problem. 

[trudysmom]

On 4/4/2019 at 10:59 PM, S Cook Productions said:

I think Mark P is a great actor and I generally like what he does). 

I agree.  I just wish he'd go do it someplace else. 

21 hours ago, SueB said:

The case for it being Nick is also strong.  MP's character seemed pretty damn desperate to GET to the thing coming out of the black.  And he didn't have an anyone watching. BUT that could be Lucifer channeling Nick, setting the stage.

I love your optimism that something like that could be a possibility anymore, but you give these writers too much creative credit. They don't have the imagination to write a sophisticated plot line/twist, much less the talent.  

On 4/4/2019 at 10:56 PM, ZennyKenny said:

Why did Nick surround himself in a circle of salt, seeing as it's been well-established that that's how you keep Supernatural entities AWAY from you, and he clearly wanted Lucifer to be, you know... NOT away from him?

Yes!  I mean, that was another shouting at the tv moment for me. I yelled alot during this episode.

21 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe they were trying to write to Jared's strengths?

I lol'ed so hard!  Don't know if you are as sarcastic as I am but I loved reading it that way!''

It's sad that I enjoy coming here and bitching with all of you, reading the various opinions even though I may not agree with all of them, so much more that I enjoy the show itself anymore.  

[mertensia]

15 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Jack doesn't have a soul. And? Apparently Donatello is fine without it - another annoying retcon.

Donatello has always functioned well without a soul. Every time he wonders what to do he asks himself What Would Mister Rogers Do? and uses that answer as his moral compass. So it isn't a retcon.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, trudysmom said:

I agree.  I just wish he'd go do it someplace else. 

Re Pellegrino, so much yes! He is a good, and sometimes great, actor, but both of these characters have been beaten into the ground and I just want them gone so bad I can't see the acting anymore. I can never get past the fact that Nick shouldn't exist.

Quote

Don't know if you are as sarcastic as I am but I loved reading it that way!

😎

[PAForrest]

2 hours ago, mertensia said:

Donatello has always functioned well without a soul. Every time he wonders what to do he asks himself What Would Mister Rogers Do? and uses that answer as his moral compass. So it isn't a retcon.

I'm talking about it being a retcon from the time when people without souls were originally written like sociopaths and/or rabid animals. But now we have Donatello who just has to think about Mr. Rogers and everything's fine. So, again, we shouldn't have to be worrying about Jack, except of course now we're supposed to. Pick a direction.

[Katy M]

40 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

I'm talking about it being a retcon from the time when people without souls were originally written like sociopaths and/or rabid animals. But now we have Donatello who just has to think about Mr. Rogers and everything's fine. So, again, we shouldn't have to be worrying about Jack, except of course now we're supposed to. Pick a direction.

It also annoys me because Jack has grace.  Except for Nephilim, you either have one or the other.  I realize that show angels aren't all good and light, but they're not generally murdering sociopaths either. IOK, maybe some of them are, but Nick still has his soul and he is, so it's not just lack of soul.  

I hated the whole soulless thing even back in S7, because they couldn't seem to pick a lane. One episode Sam would basically just be clueless sbecause he didn't know how to feel. then he'd be I guess sort of animalistic because all he wanted to do is survive (that's probably what they should have stuck with), then in epis like Clap Your Hands, he was just funny.  And for some reason his being soulless seemed to practically give him superpowers.  

But, OK, he got his soul back, it was over.  It was a semi-good story except for a few things. Then, the bring back soullessness in S9, when Abaddon is stealing souls and everybody turns psychopathic murderer within 5 minutes.  Really?  Even Sam wasn't a psycho killer. He just didn't care for the most part.  he killed when it benefited him.  He didn't stab a waitress in the hand just 'cause.  

OK, then that was over with fairly quickly, so good.

Then, we have Amara stealing souls left and right.  Most of them go immediately kill crazy, too.  Except for Donatello.  If they were going to do that, they should have had some kind of lame explanation that because he was a prophet she wasn't able to steal his entire soul or something.    But, Donatello doesn't seem unsoulled at all. Not even a little bit.  He clearly cares about Jack, he can give advice based on emotions. Not memories of emotions. there is nothing different about him at all.  I'll bet he even still sleeps.